If this is an inflection point

Posted by Guessedworker on Thursday, 03 April 2025 05:10.

... be cautious about who seeks to inflect you!

none

As the Trump administration struggles to impose a ceasefire on the Russian aggressor, the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine warns of an intensification in the Kremlin’s propaganda programme:

The Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine records the transition to an acute phase of the hostile information operation conducted by the Russian federation against Ukraine. Its aim is to eliminate Ukrainian statehood not on the battlefield, but in people’s heads: by delegitimizing the Ukrainian Government, devaluing democratic institutions and imposing an external political scenario with signs of controlled capitulation. The operation is conducted with the use of the capabilities of the Russian federation’s special services – the FSB, SVR, and GRU – under the overall coordination of the presidential administration of the rf.

The Essence of the enemy’s Operation

Under the guise of “peacekeeping initiatives” and “analytical discourse”, on the Ukrainian and international societies is being imposed the idea of:

the Ukrainian government’s alleged loss of legitimacy due to the failure to hold elections during martial law;

the need for a “temporary administration” under the auspices of the UN, the USA, the EU, or even the “quartet format” with the rf;

the impossibility of russia’s concluding a peace agreement with the Ukrainian government, which, according to the enemy, should become a casus belli for changing the political course.

Such narratives are not just disinformation, but an element of a special operation to force Ukraine to political capitulation under the guise of a “peaceful settlement”.

Methods of Implementation

The operation is carried out through:

⁕ formally Western or “neutral” media, which act as a proxy for Russian theses. Among them:

Magyar Nemzet, Magyar Hirlap, Pesti Srácok (Hungary): promote the idea of “Ukraine’s being incapable of self-governing”;

Salon24.pl (Poland): published a fake blog by an anonymous author “MarcinWi”, which, under the guise of “expert analysis”, supported the narrative of a “split” between the military and political leadership of Ukraine;

Réseau International (France): promotes theories about Ukraine’s alleged being incapable of conducting combat operations on its own and the “deep strategic gap between the Ukrainian political leadership and the General Staff”.

⁕ anonymous telegram channels posing as “insiders” in the Armed Forces of Ukraine or political leadership;

⁕ a coordinated wave of emotional videos on TikTok and YouTube with the narratives such as “the West no longer supports Ukraine,” “we have been deceived,” “we need a change in government,” as well as “it’s time for a change,” and “we need another government for peace.”

⁕ massive dissemination of destructive materials with the same theses on (Telegram /Strana.ua, Scott Ritter/, X /RothLindberg, DougAMacgregor/, Facebook /Florian Filippo, Fernand Kartheiser/) with the involvement of botnets and accounts associated with pro-Russian structures in Europe and Latin America. They publish pseudo-documents, statements and “analytical notes” that question the authority of the Ukrainian government;

⁕ quoting pro-Russian “experts” with the titles of “former diplomats”, “independent political scientists”, “UN veterans” who promote the thesis that “even the West needs a different Ukraine”;

⁕ the use of Ukrainian defendants in treason cases to legitimize narratives (including publications and comments by representatives of former pro-Russian political structures).

These actions are accompanied by the infiltration of the Kremlin’s narratives into the structures of influence of Ukraine’s partner countries, in particular through the organization of public “discussions” on the legitimacy of the government, the prospects for negotiations without Ukraine’s participation, and the alleged “loss of trust” in Kyiv.



Comments:


1

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 10 Apr 2025 21:27 | #

Prof. Glenn Diesen : Ukraine, Tariffs, and Europe.

https://youtu.be/i1zs1D9G6IM


2

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Apr 2025 09:16 | #

1. Kindly explain how, in 2014, the iron will and manifold protests and marches by Ukrainians to remove a Russian satrap from the presidency, a man who lied to get elected and turned 180 degrees towards Moscow once in office, amounted to nothing and the murders of 100 people by paramilitaries had no part in Yanukovych’s flight ... how it was all just Victoria Nuland.

2. Kindly explain what Putin has to fear from the peoples of eastern and south-eastern Europe fearing him and desiring protection of the military alliance of their neighbours to the west.

3. Kindly explain why Belarussian people are unfree, and what moral right the Russian government has to force-march them, wholly against their will, into russification.

You can’t.  Nobody can.  Because Russian propaganda only goes so far.  It does not explain history or morality.  It pimps them both.  I know this from three years of tearing apart the fantasies that “right-wingers” and nationalists have, by their weakness of mind and habitual reductive thinking, internalised.  Of course, nothing stops these victims of animal cunning from returning time and again with the same induced fantasies, because these fantasies are emotionally held and selectively reinforced.  But one cannot show them that either.  They are what Gramsci (never actually) called “captive intellects”.  They do not own their opinions.  The opinions own them.


3

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 11 Apr 2025 10:48 | #

Reality check:

With Putin as President, the Ukrainian opposition to Russian influence and control chose and inopportune time to confront it.

Western opposition to Russian influence and control of Ukraine chose an inopportune time to mount a military challenge against it.

Plain and straightforward: Russia was subjected to Western provocation for decades. Russia was provoked. Only those misled by misinformation could fail to recognize or continue to ignore this reality.


4

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 11 Apr 2025 15:24 | #

You cannot defend your “beliefs” by saying “reality check”.  You cannot do so by saying “Plain and straightforward ... Russia was provoked”.  What provoked Russia to kidnap children from occupied areas?  What provoked Russia to murder the civilian population of Bucha or Irpin?  What provoked Russia to missile refugees escaping to the west?  What provoked Russia to massacre Ukrainian prisoners en masse in Olinevka?  What provoked Russia to missile a children’s playground in Kryvy Riy just a few days ago?  What provokes Russian forces to routinely execute prisoners?  The list is long.  None of it excusable.

The Ukrainians desire to be independent and autonomous.  Do you want that for them, or do you want Ukraine to be lost and Ukrainians to be genocided?


5

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 11 Apr 2025 16:11 | #

A quick search of “was Russia provoked” brought up the following article. It was written 2 years ago but it is still as true and relevant today as it was back then.

The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace

https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/wgtgma5kj69pbpndjr4wf6aayhrszm

Just a thought: Given the nature of the Putin regime and contemporary Russian nationalism, what type of misguided mindset would intentionally seek to provoke a war with them? A very corrupt foolish one. That’s the type.


6

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 07:39 | #

We’ve dealt with Sachs.  He is a supporter of Bernie Sanders.  He isn’t one of us, so to speak.  He is anti us, a globalist.  He worked for WHO.  He is an eco-activist.  His opinions on the west are worthless.  His agenda has been roundly exposed.  Here, for example:

Particularly instructive are biographies of prestigious individuals whose credentials allow them access to the corridors of power and elite publications. Professor Jeffrey Sachs, the Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, for example, might appear to many to be a person whose pronouncements should be given great weight in policy circles. However, from reading his biography in Vatnik Soup, the picture that emerges is quite different.

Sachs, while assigned to directing US aid to Russia during the Clinton administration not only helped engineer the rise of the post-soviet kleptocracy, but he has also apparently maintained his loyalty to it ever since.

Sach’s points of apparent Kremlin affinity include calling for dismantling “US hegemony’” parroting the Kremlin’s call for a “a multi-polar world;” claiming that the CIA goaded the Kremlin into attacking Afghanistan in 1979 and aiding Assad in 2015; that the US planned the Revolution of Dignity that overthrew Viktor Yanukovych in 2014; that eastern European nations such as Finland should be denied the right to join NATO; that the COVID-19 epidemic was the result of a leak from a US biolab; and that the US should deny miliary aid to Ukraine. Their analysis goes on:

“True to form, Sachs also blames the US for bombing the Nord Stream pipelines and even addressed the UN Security Council on Russia’s behalf on the matter.

“While eagerly defending Russian interests, Sachs also appears to be a big fan of China and has defended the country’s genocide of the Uyghur population by saying that the term “genocide” simply doesn’t apply there. When confronted with this in an interview, he evaded the question and referred to the “huge human rights abuses committed by the US.”


What are you doing citing this man?

It is long past time that you extricated yourself from the pro-Russian propaganda machine and judged Putin and his cohort by their actions.  The cluster-munition ballistic attacks on civilians Kryvyi Riy and now Sumi might be an appropriate place to start.


7

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:44 | #

Professor has been providing precise and perceptive analysis of the Russia-Ukraine conflict and the subsequent war since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991. In fact, he was in Moscow, sitting in the same room with Gorbachev and Yeltsin at the very moment the final decision was made to bring it to an end.

He also makes a spot-on argument in describing Netanyahu as the most dangerous and destructive man alive today, asserting that he, along with the Israel Lobby, has controlled U.S. foreign policy in Western Asia for the past three decades. Afterall, Bibi has persuaded the U.S. government to provide the military hardware and political cover necessary for him to carry out genocide in Gaza and elsewhere. Sachs is a harsh effective critic of Israel’s actions.

Prof. Jefferey Sachs has impeccable credentials and credibility.


8

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 10:50 | #

Russian Missiles Strike Troop Accumulation at Advertised Military Awards Ceremony – Kiev: It Was ‘Easter Celebration’ – Ukrainian Mayor Trashes Reckless Military Command (VIDEOS)
[...]

Needless to say, both Kiev regime’s leader Volodymyr Zelensky, his handlers France’s Emmanuel Macron and UK’s Keir Starmer, as well as some MSM vehicles, called an attack on a peaceful civilian gathering, ‘an Easter celebration’.

The problem is that they forgot to silence their own Ukrainian politicians and officials, that have already denounced: the missile strike was carried out on the place where militants of the 117th territorial defense brigade were receiving awards in a widely advertised ceremony.

[...]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/04/russian-missiles-strike-troop-accumulation-advertised-military-awards/

 

 


9

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 11:53 | #

“It is long past time that you extricated yourself from the pro-Russian propaganda machine”

Make an effort to consider all perspectives available, and then discern for yourself what is true or not.


10

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 12:31 | #

Look at what you are saying.  Were the “soldiers” who sent two ballistic missiles with cluster warheads into the centre of Sumy on Palm Sunday - an Orthodox holiday - “provoked” because of an awards ceremony in an unknown building somewhere nearby?  What happened to your reason and decency?  Indeed, what happened to the plain commonsense of the Russians?  I will tell you.  Hatred and the joy of destruction, and if parents and children die, well, good!  That’s what you are supporting.  You really ought to reflect on your morality at this point.  And what’s with the “militants” claim?  That alone proves you are a lost soul at this point.

The whole “provoked” thing is encapsulated in the Sumy attack.  Enough of it.


11

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 14 Apr 2025 19:58 | #

“Hatred and the joy of destruction, and if parents and children die, well, good!  That’s what you are supporting.”

I support no such stance; on the contrary. I advocate for pursuit of peace through genuinely rational negotiations and firmly oppose the use of kinetic warfare. I’m a peacenik, actually.


12

Posted by Thorn on Tue, 15 Apr 2025 22:47 | #

Friedrich Merz: the most dangerous German leader since Adolf Hitler
gilbertdoctorow   April 15, 2025

Opening grafs:

In the past several weeks, I have repeatedly called out the destructive role of British Prime Minister Keir Starmer and French President Emmanuel Macron as they try, by hook or crook, to build a ‘Coalition of the Willing’ that would send troops to Ukraine to create a deterrent against ‘further Russian aggression’ at some point after conclusion of a peace agreement. The net effect of their proposals is to sabotage Donald Trump’s efforts at brokering a cease-fire, and/or permanent peace.

Ugly as this would-be ‘leadership’ of Europe may be, ugly as were the words of Starmer yesterday in his public statements condemning the latest Russian missile attack on Sumy, the fact is that what Macron and Starmer are up to is posturing, without effect.  Their latest attempt last week to enlist European and non-European countries in their coalition was a complete failure, bringing to their side only the three Baltic States, which count for nothing in military terms.

However, there is now another European ‘leader’ whose anti-Russian words may translate into actions that will be devastating for Germany and could just drag us all into a third world war. I am speaking about the incoming chancellor Friedrich Merz, who has been building upon his warlike rhetoric from the electoral campaign that positioned him to form a governing coalition and has now gone completely rabid in his stated plans for inflicting punishment on Russia.

RTWT

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2025/04/15/friedrich-merz-the-most-dangerous-german-leader-since-adolf-hitler/


13

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 16 Apr 2025 16:27 | #

What does Doctorow say about the massacres of the civilians at Bucha and Irpin?

What does Doctorow say about the, to quote Roman Sheremata, “thousands of Ukrainian children — including babies — [who] have been abducted from occupied territories and sent to Russia. Many have been adopted by Russian families, stripped of their names, their language, and their history. This is not collateral damage. It’s a calculated effort to erase a nation.”

What does Doctorow say about Russia’s night and day missiling of civilians, including by ballistic missiles with cluster warheads?

What does Doctorow say about the the massacre of Ukrainian prisoners at Olenivka, and about the routine execution of individual captives?

What does Doctorow say about the cynical conduct of “referendums” in the occupied areas, forcing people to vote “the right way” at gun-point?

What does Doctorow say about the noble and courageous fight of Ukrainians, including Russian-speakers in the east, for the very existence of their people and their nation?

And so forth.  My guess is nothing.  But if one has nothing to say about these things merely because their truth is too inconvenient, one is not a moral man, or a man at all.


14

Posted by James Bowery on Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:23 | #

I hate to bring up ancient history, but the START hearings on July 31, 1991 were about what the US should do with the “Peace Dividend” (remember that phrase?) after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

There was one guy who testified in those hearings that went on to be VP of a company which was taking ownership of the MX-Missile technology to produce very low cost of operation satellite launch vehicles. 

https://youtu.be/boLdXiLJZoY

That guy was forced to recognize the failure of the capital markets to invest in productive enterprises in preference for the financialization of the Wests economies, was due to the same kinds of people who seek to centralize the positive network externalities that are civilization’s source of power.

So he proposed to distribute all such externalities to the citizens without any conditions so as to privatize government and extract monopoly profits that corrupt the behemoths we see around us today.

https://ota.polyonymo.us/others-papers/NetAssetTax_Bowery.txt

Unfortunately for that guy, he also had participated in a joint venture between the largest monopoly (Ma Bell) and the largest news paper chain at the time (Knight Ridder)

https://jimbowery.blogspot.com/2021/10/below-is-something-i-wrote-in-1982.html

...and saw up close and personal, in Miami of all places, how the sausage was made, so when a bunch of JEWS attacked his proposal that could have averted everything we see happening around us today, he made the mistake of NAMING THE JEW.

That was the end of him.

Let that be a lesson to you:

Don’t think.

https://archive.org/details/internationaljew12unse


15

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:40 | #

@13

That’s the ugly truth about war, GW.

And to think it all could have been avoided if the Maidan coup had not been carefully preplanned then executed. At any rate, we are witnessing the consequences of that coup. And it was so easy to predict how Russia would react!! According to some sources, there are an estimated 1.5 million Ukrainians dead thus far.

Hopefully the Trump team can negotiate a genuine peace. But the resistance he faces may undermine his efforts. Of course, many in the West have vested interests (economic, ideological, geopolitical, etc.) in prolonging the war, with some stating they want it to continue for at least another five years. They are truly insane!


16

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 16 Apr 2025 22:57 | #

@ 14

James, have you reached out to any popular right-wing radio talk show host and asked him-or-her to have you on as a guest to discuss your ideas?

Might be a good idea if you want to promote your ideas.


17

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:03 | #

You really need to listen to this, GW. Amongst other issues concerning the Ukraine-Russia war, the esteemed Professor delves into the question of morality. Moreover, he gets it right.  Maybe he can talk some sense into you?

Prof. Glenn Diesen : What Is Europe Afraid Of?

https://youtu.be/OcD7ifMDvoc


18

Posted by James Bowery on Thu, 17 Apr 2025 15:23 | #

@16
A decade ago this interview covered this pretty well:

https://redice.tv/radio-3fourteen/virulence-group-selection-and-state-of-nature

However, the real problem is people see my ideas as too dangerous—that I’m a bull in a china shop when it comes to the beleaguered who would do anything if only they could be left alone with a small community of like-minded folks to live out their days free from government enforced infiltration in the name of “diversity”.  People are hanging on by their fingernails.  They need to feel they are part of some sort of group that shares with them a set of ideas so they aren’t alone against a world of digesting juices seeping into their lives from BLOB.

In short, I need to write a book that people decide is some kind of roadmap to freedom.

Take for example the simple idea of replacing taxes on economic activity with a single tax on liquidation value of net assets.

You won’t find anything in the literature about this replacement.  You will find plenty about “tax the rich” in the form of increased progressivity in taxes on economic activity.  But that’s only the first of many hurdles in the popular mind.  Next you’ll find tragic cases like Elizabeth Warren who want to add yet another form of taxation and call it “wealth tax”—tragic because before she got seduced into politics she was the sole voice remotely approaching middle class TFR in the halls of the elites.  So even among the democrats they just can’t put two things in their heads at once:  A wealth tax AND repealing the 16th Amendment entirely.  It is just too much for their tiny brains to handle.  Beyond that you have the issue of how you actually assess the LIQUIDATION value of wealth in a principled manner—and that is even if you can get people to hold 2 items in their head at once.  They’re already stressed to the breaking point and can’t even begin to listen to how to do that—they just shut down and parrot the “non-starter” slogan so popular among folks who can’t face the fact that we’re on the precipice of a Thirty Years War and are holding on by their fingernails.

Oh, and I haven’t even gotten around to talking about the other level of “2 things at once”:  The aforementioend tax reform (already discussed) along with the dispersal of tax revenue evenly to the population in the form of a citizens’ dividend to privatize government.  The “conservatives” don’t want to privatize government so much as they want to eliminate government and turn everything over to existing holders of wealth—as though that won’t get them all guillotined!  These guys are perhaps to be forgiven in the same sense that junkies are to be forgiven, but there is no sense in which they should be coddled.


19

Posted by Thorn on Thu, 17 Apr 2025 23:30 | #

@18

That was an interesting interview hitting on some very thought-provoking proposals and explanations of European sociobiology. Implementing those proposals in the real world—i.e., moving from abstraction to reality—would be a heavy lift, indeed. I especially agree with your explanation of the difference between virulent Jews and non-virulent Jews. Michael Savage put it in even plainer language. He observes that “when Jews want to do good for the world, they can be great. However, when they want to do bad, they can become outright dangerous.” So true!!!


20

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 08:33 | #

it all could have been avoided if the Maidan coup had not been carefully preplanned then executed

You are retailing a dictated lie.  Eleven years ago at MR you were blaming George Soros for the Ukrainian people’s refusal to be governed by Russia.  Now it’s NATO.  Why not be led by the Ukrainian people’s will?  What blinds you from it?

Diesen, too, is retailing the NATO lie.  Giving the Ukrainian people protection from Moscow’s aggression is not “making war unavoidable”.  It is deterring aggression and restraining Moscow from pursuing its geopolitical and regional objective of empire. What, then, is Diesen’s moral argument that is not just a cover for satrapy and expansion?  Are satrapy and expansion morally superior to the life and right of the people of the land?  No people on this planet wants to be subject to Moscow’s rule, including Russia’s Asiatic peoples beyond the Urals.

Diesen, then, is arguing for the pathological inability of Moscow to live in peace with Russia’s neighbours.  He is an appeaser, but it is appeasement of a destining for aggrandisement that extends beyond the regional to the global.  He knows not what he does!


21

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:12 | #

Over the past 25 years, I’m convinced we have been observing a regime change operation orchestrated by the United States in collaboration with NATO members using Ukraine as a pawn. This is no doubt motivated - in large part - by their strong opposition to a burgeoning Russian nationalism as advocated by the likes of Putin and Dugin.

I never required the insights of scholars like Diesen, Meisenheimer, Sachs, or numerous other learned individuals to persuade me of this. I relied on understanding the Russians’ desire to remain sovereign and resist falling under the influence of the Western globalists’ agenda. But when I do read or hear the of the aforementioned scholars, it resonates with me simply because I had already reached those conclusions independently.

Botton line,

Russia was provoked.


22

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:58 | #

Neither Putin nor Dugin are ethnic nationalists.  They are crude imperialists.  So is Xi.  So is Trump.  Others with a similar interest, such as Erdogan and Modi, are watching to see what happens now.  The world order the empire-builders would create is not one in which the nationalism of peoples can exist.  You are failing to distinguish between the refutation of liberalism from those, on the one hand, who champion global power and, on the other, those who champion nation and people.  As Jade McGlynn says, Putin and Dugin strategise against liberalism not to defend the principle of nation and people but to attack it.  There is no general good in the fourth Russian empire they would create if they could.  Good resides in ethnic nationalism.  It is the authentic third way between Judaism and a truly global imperialism.

This is what you, and many like you, are missing.


23

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 12:03 | #

“Good resides in ethnic nationalism.  It is the authentic third way.”

I have always held that to be true as well.


24

Posted by James Bowery on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 15:41 | #

@19

“abstraction to reality” is the way things happen in the tripartate human brain which is the way things happen in the tripartate “Indoeuropean” caste system that tried to retain the functional aspects of the individual nervous system in society’s nervous system.

I did my fucking part getting a law passed at the US Federal Government level and STILL I’m called upon to do all the heavy lifting.  At my advanced age and background and trackrecord of sacrifice, if I’m not accorded the respect of the lower castes, then I fear for them more than I do myself.  My bloodline is already kaput.  Ya’ll gonna have to carry on.  I wish you well but you’re going to have to have your “come to Jesus” moment.


25

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:20 | #

Thorn: “I have always held that to be true as well.”

But you cannot hold a belief that the will of peoples of the land must be respected alongside the belief that “Moscow is innocent” even as it conducts a war of aggression against the people of Ukraine.  It is the will of Ukrainians that they join the only organisation which can afford them protection from Moscow.  Respect that ... acknowledge its bona fides ... and the “provoked” claim falls.

Make your mind up.


26

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:25 | #

Nothing we have done individually, or are likely to do, can ever be enough, James.  Not if the staggering scale of the enterprise is really taken on board.  It’s an act of loving and of giving without limit or reservation.


27

Posted by Thorn on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 18:13 | #

“It is the will of Ukrainians that they join the only organisation which can afford them protection from Moscow.”

Yes, of course. Again, we share common ground there.

But here is another way to approach the matter: Ukraine, backed by the USA/UK, picked a bad time to launch a coup against Yanukovych, a Russian friendly president. Timing is crucial and the pro EU pro NATO segment of the Ukraine leadership picked a terrible time to go to war with Russia - especially being that the autocrat Putin was, and still is, in power. They should have waited until an individual such as Alexei Navalny assumed the presidency of Russia. That political shift was already unfolding; its inevitability was evident, and it was merely a question of time. Even if it took another generation or two for that to take shape it would have been worth the wait. Because they did not wait, Ukraine has been devastated, and an entire generation or two of Ukrainian men has been nearly decimated. Patience is a virtue; however, the Ukrainian leadership, in their pursuit of a decisive break from Russia, evidently, IMHO, lacked the required patience. Moreover, Ukraine fell prey to false promises and manipulation by unreliable Western leaders such as Joe Biden, Antony Blinken, and Boris Johnson.


28

Posted by Guessedworker on Fri, 18 Apr 2025 21:35 | #

It was Moscow which first portrayed the Revolution of Dignity as a coup.  After all, Moscow’s satrap had been overthrown by the people for a second time in what was a classic civil uprising, and the climax of 12 weeks of ever-growing protest centred in Kiev, of course, but spread across the country.  Not at all the sort of thing a murderous dictator wants to acknowledge, and so began the process of black-washing it.

However, the historical record is crystal clear.  The revolution was a magnificent and inspiring popular insistence on freedom, civil law, defence of the constitution, clean politics, the keeping of promises made to the electorate, and a future in the west.  But for psychological reasons right-wingers cannot abide the Ukrainian people’s rejection of Putinism and their embrace of freedom.  There had to be some hidden hand which negated the reality of courageous and determined dissent!

Boris Johnson has actually written about the rubbish that is talked about him.  It’s on a par with the equally rubbishy talk from the other side about Comrade Krasnov.  It’s not serious material.

Navalny never had a serious electoral chance.  But it was really Boris Nemtsov before him whom you should check out.  You will learn from his life and death that Putin is a gangster secured in his primacy by the FSB.  The Ukrainians could not wait for Russian strong men to stop killing democrats.  They did the right and courageous thing.


29

Posted by Thorn on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 11:51 | #

“But for psychological reasons right-wingers cannot abide the Ukrainian people’s rejection of Putinism and their embrace of freedom.  There had to be some hidden hand which negated the reality of courageous and determined dissent!”

 
The problem with that lies in your erroneous assumption that the Ukrainian people are uniform in their thoughts and aspirations. The open and free election of Yanukov in 2010 demonstrates the Ukrainian population was not unanimously opposed to the Yanukovych’s Russian friendly agenda and policies. A glance at the electoral map of the 2010 Ukrainian election reveals a divided nation - close to an even 50/50 split. Most of the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine supported Yanukovych, while the western and northern areas predominantly voted the opposing candidate.

The Ukrainian people could have gotten along just fine under a Yanukovych presidency. The Western backed Maidan coup upset the applecart which predictably led to a war with Russia resulting in nothing but death, destruction and suffering to the Ukranian people. Was ‘The Revolution of Dignity’ worth it? Or was it a maximum foolish endeavor like so many other regime change operations the West orchestrated over the last half century.

BTW, leftists often use the term “right-wingers” in a pejorative sense. Of course, it’s a common neo-Marxist tactic comparable to employing terms like “racist” and “antisemite.”


30

Posted by Guessedworker on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 14:00 | #

In 2010 Yanukovych’s position was that “Ukraine’s integration with the EU remains our strategic aim”.  Those were his actual words.  But, from wiki ...

Since 2012, Ukraine and the EU had been negotiating a free trade and association agreement. In 2013, the Ukrainian Parliament overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement with the EU,[187] and Yanukovych urged parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine would meet the EU’s criteria and be able to sign the agreement in November 2013.[188]

Russia, however, put pressure on Ukraine to reject the EU Association Agreement.[11] In August 2013, Russia began restricting Ukrainian imports, which Ukraine’s opposition parties described as “a trade war” to pressure the country not to sign the agreement.[11] The agreement was to be finalized at a summit in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius. On 21 November, a week before the summit, Yanukovych suddenly announced he was pulling out of the agreement, and instead strengthening economic ties with Russia.[189] Jovita Neliupšienė, foreign policy aide to Lithuania’s president Dalia Grybauskaitė, said Yanukovych had called her to say he had changed his mind due to what she called Russian “economic pressure and blackmail”. The Lithuanian president’s office said Russia had threatened Ukraine with huge trade losses and job losses if it signed the EU agreement.[190] Russia also offered more favorable trade terms than those offered by the EU and IMF.[191]

This sparked protests at Independence Square (Maidan Nezalezhnosti) in the center of Kyiv, which became known as ‘Euromaidan’. The protesters, united under the Maidan People’s Union, demanded Yanukovych fulfill his pledge to sign the Agreement or else resign ...

It led to the massacre in the Maiden by the Berkut paramilitaries; which then led to Yanukovych’s flight to Russia.  That is the reality of it.  Nothing to do with Soros or Nuland, or neocons or the CIA, or whatever.  All of you conspiracists are driven by a psychological need of one or other kind.  That or simple malignancy.  I came across an account this morning of Douglas Murray’s appearance on Joe Rogan, in which Murray “comes out” in favour of malignancy.  He is, of course, an Israel First boy:

“nasty anti-Semites who can’t believe their luck” that the orthodox account of the Second World War is being debated on podcasts. “The aim… is basically to minimise the culpability of the Nazis, maximise the casualty figures caused by the Allies, and then claim there is moral parity in World War II. In order to do your final move, which is to say that we, in the West, were worse.” And why would anyone want to do that? Because isolationists believe that had Churchill not dragged America into the war, “the Nazis and Communists would’ve had to fight it out, America wouldn’t have had to put any investment into it, and it could have come out at the end with some sort of Christian nationalism”.

I strongly suspect that political weeds like MAGA tend to grow where an authentic nationalism is missing.  But this is our situation everywhere in the English-speaking world.  We have no viable political form by which we can operate and express ourselves.  The result is a hyperized critique allied to an inability to recognise or acknowledge simple truth, and its replacement by wild theories of all kinds.


31

Posted by Thorn on Sun, 20 Apr 2025 11:10 | #

Sorry for the cut-and-paste, GW, but this is important.

Provoked? What about Gaslighting?

Was Russia provoked into the war in Ukraine? Certainly. However, gaslighting was involved as well; not by Scott Horton’s Provoked, but—as he expertly details on page after page—by the US government and its organ—the establishment media.

Roll back 30-some years, and I—a regular consumer of NPR during my morning commute and the local paper in the evening—was aware of the narrative regarding the troubles facing Eastern European countries and regions. The dissolution of the Soviet Union brought intrigue, wars, and destruction, and interventions supporting US interests. The US government—as the story still goes—was on the champion of good, looking to fill the political void of a vile empire with democracy and liberty. Sure, eggs were cracked, but sometimes that is the only means to bring peace and stability to the world. Did the US government make the occasional mistake or misstep? Absolutely, but its heart was always in the right place.

In many ways, that was a tale pleasing to the ear. Believing I was a citizen of the shining city on the hill sounded better than the realization I was aligned with an entity fomenting disorder, disaster, and death—all while supported by my tax dollars. I cannot honestly claim I never read or heard the occasional mention of grabs for oil and other resources, or hints of strange and clandestine operations—exercises in hegemonic games for spheres of control. But those whispers never seemed loud enough or consistent enough to change my views of US foreign policy, or maybe I just didn’t listen or refused to hear.

Nevertheless, over the years, as my suspicions rose and I began to question the narrative, I researched more. I started to listen to voices not emanating from the state and slowly awakened to a different view of US foreign policy. Over time, I realized much of what I thought was true regarding US enemies and adversaries was nothing more than specters shaped by a shadowy political framework that is defined and redefined by the government. I recognized the agenda and goals of the US federal government were often not shared by me and my fellow citizens. To keep the agenda moving forward, the government has to continually propagandize its citizens with a narrative that supports both the government’s agenda and the desires of its beneficiaries.

And, as Horton shows again and again, the US government didn’t just propagandize us—it used gaslighting as well. As the armies and missiles of NATO encroached on Russian borders, as revolts and dissent were incited within Russia, as US tax dollars funded NGOs that are anything but nongovernment, we were repeatedly told it was Russia expanding its borders and threatening sovereign countries.

This was all gaslighting. For example, as the former Yugoslavia experienced its death throes, it was the US and its allies raining terror from the skies. It was not Russia coming to the defense of the Slavs and kindling the Balkan tinderbox. It was the US and NATO creating unrest and violence, as well as directly and indirectly causing vast death and destruction. It was not some resurgent evil empire swinging scythe and sickle; it was the supposed “shining city on the hill” and its Western European sycophants, the supposed defenders of liberal democracy, igniting passions that could only be resolved in blood.

Provoked is replete with other examples, most of which I knew about to some degree. But I never saw all the examples listed out, chapter by chapter. And it is this extensive recounting that gives Horton’s book such depth that I cannot deny I was gaslit for years. There is no country, political entity, or ethnic group in Eastern Europe that either didn’t receive money for nefarious reasons or experience its results. And we call this aid money—or it is seen as aid money when people succumb to the effects of the gas.

I cannot recommend Provoked highly enough. Horton ties together the history that resulted in the war in Ukraine—a war 25 years in the making. His extensive footnoting bolsters his case. In the end, his book proves beyond a doubt that the war could have been prevented if the warmongers guiding US foreign policy would have exited political life and taken up a different pursuit—one where the suffering of millions is not an inevitable consequence.

The Cold War ended. Let the world and humanity reap the dividends.

https://mises.org/power-market/provoked-what-about-gaslighting

It seems that both of us could benefit significantly from reading this book.

https://www.amazon.com/Provoked-Washington-Started-Catastrophe-Ukraine/dp/1733647376

A sample review:

Will Long
5.0 out of 5 stars A knock out blow to the official narrative.
Reviewed in the United States on April 13, 2025
Verified Purchase

Scott Horton doesn’t simple argue his case in this book. He let’s dozens of government officials argue it for him in their own words. If you think that paying attention to the news has given you a solid perspective on the War in Ukraine, Scott will gently disabuse you of that notion entirely.

Not only did the US government know what it was getting into, but it planned it outright. Scott delves into over thirty years of geopolitical manuvering to demonstrate the careful and considered provocation of this conflict by our very own government. From the fall of the Soviet Union, to the Maidan revolution, up to just before the month of publication in November 2024, Scott provides a roadmap of breadcrumbs within thousands of footnotes, where he cites credible source after credible source. It is the most tediously sourced book you will ever read cover to cover.

 

 

 


32

Posted by Guessedworker on Sun, 20 Apr 2025 23:41 | #

Another unthinking “critic” going through the motions, completely failing to comprehend that he reached the end of his journey before he started out.  I give very little credit to white men who exhibit blame behaviours.  Doesn’t matter who or what the blamed may be.  Insert the noun of your choice, for example, nation, class, skin-colour, the opposite sex, the rulers, the police or the lawyers, the culture, the past, etc.  Ultimately, such behaviour originates in Judaism’s universalisation of the Other as manifest in the divergent destinies of the Chosen and the “gentile”.  It re-appears in Christianity’s concept of sin and salvation therefrom, and in liberalism’s notion of bounds that must be broken, particularly supposed forms of social oppression.  But human nature, too, is such a bound - and all for the purpose of being “fully human”.  Men being weak, it effortlessly morphs into a moral punishment regime, always denouncing and othering the man beside you, never yourself.  It is extremely ugly, and has produced the most appalling episodes of cruelty and cant in human history, be it lighting fires under witches and heretics in the 16th and 17th centuries, or operating the gulags and killing fields of the 20th, or murdering the public and professional reputations of whole swathes of people in the 21st.  Men do not learn, but in small ways and great continue the quest to crowbar some advantage for self by this highly unedifying means.

I think it is a failing of the formatively religious mind, marked as it is by logic truncated in service to some predisposed end, and the winning thereby of a “special” virtue to be paraded as soon as a suitable quorum can be found.  IQ-wise, I would expect the incidence of it to reduce the more that abstract thinking is the norm.  In that respect, we must distinguish between such behaviour and the holding of this or that political principle.  One might be an anti-racist by reasoned conviction yet foreswear oneself from indulging in the mechanistic orgies of condemnation usually associated with the creed.  We aren’t just talking about the culture-warring left, however.  The Ukraine war has exposed a vast and colourful menagerie of right-wing “content creators” and consumers of content who work their way diligently through the self-same process, othering and excoriating some aspect of their own socio-political generality.  They can’t leave the doom-loop.  They can’t be made to see how utterly pointless and irrelevant are its triumphant and, of course, set conclusions.  They register no criticisms, no questioning even.  They are blind to inconvenient truths.  They don’t know it because religious thinking does not and cannot know itself or its limits because the knowledge would consume it.

There is, then, no simple cure.  Watching the heretic burn does not shock the senses of such people.  Nothing will move them or their conviction that they alone have possession of the golden key.


33

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:25 | #

Here’s the deal in a nutshell, GW.

From the Russian perspective, the presence of missile systems and other military installation buildups on and near their borders was perceived as an existential threat prompting them to take action to eliminate that danger.

If China were to install missile systems and other military installations along the southern border of the USA in Mexico, the U.S. would not hesitate to eliminate that threat, and justifiably so.

“Christianity’s reappearance” or other such nonsense has nothing to do with why Russia invaded Ukraine. It is more akin to a “kill or be killed” dynamic at play here; i.e., the survival of the fittest.


34

Posted by Guessedworker on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 15:06 | #

We’ve already dealt with all this.  The Russian masses average only four or five points above the global mean for IQ.  So the bulk of them might easily believe what you say, which is only what they are told.  But the “men of force” are not stupid.  They know the difference between what they retail and what they actually see in the world.  They know perfectly well that NATO does not station nuclear weapons on their borders.  They know, for example, that nuclear weapons will not be installed in the new member states of Sweden and Finland.  They know perfectly well that NATO is a defensive alliance, and they know that Russia is an imperialist aggressor.  They know, for example, that Kaliningrad is stuffed full of nuclear weapons.  They are nuclear hypocrites.  They are liars.  They are relentless schemers totally devoted to the advancement of their own status and interests in every conceivable political, geopolitical, and global-hegemonic way.

Why, then, do you not know this?  Why do you still retail the same dross about NATO?  Why, because you, too, have this need to tear down everything close.  It is a Judaic impulse which has worked itself deep into your thought processes.  When I used to say to Daniel that we live in the Jewish mind this is what I meant.  Since Constantin’s fateful decision to advance Christian universalism through his empire this is the way it has been.

Unless you can pull yourself out of this ethical quagmire of welcoming death because you want your elites to die you are never going to know the love of your people.  You will, instead, be pumped full of love for Jehovah, a first century Hebrew trick.


35

Posted by Thorn on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 22:21 | #

@ 34

I referring to conventional weapon systems, not nuclear ones.

“It is a Judaic impulse which has worked itself deep into your thought processes.”

Okay, Sigmund. ROFL

In any case, how can you be certain it has not deeply embedded itself your thought processes as well? I believe it has, and you may simply be unaware of it. /s

As an aside, GW, I recall back during the Reagan Administration (around 1987 - I was still in my 20s) I got into a discussion with a seasoned lineman coworker (he was ~ 58 years old). I explained to him how the Russian population had been influenced by their government and media with lies, while, in contrast, Americanos, with our freedom the press, were provided with accurate and truthful information. His reply to me was short and to the point, he said in a gruff southern accent: “Youngin’! The American people are the most brainwashed people on the planet.” I was taken aback, thinking that surely, I, Thorn, could not be brainwashed; such a thing seemed impossible. But I had great respect for the old geezer and his words resonated with me. In due course, over the span of a few years, I came to the realization that I had indeed been brainwashed by the government-media complex - including Hollywood. It became increasingly clear to me after I became aware of all the misinformation presented to the public leading up to and during The First Gulf War. This realization ultimately led to my awareness of how those in power can manipulate our thoughts and opinions for their own purposes. More specifically, this is referred to as “the official narrative.” Sometimes the official narrative is true, sometimes it is partially true, and sometimes it is entirely deceptive. In any case, it is designed to influence and control the thinking of the populace.


36

Posted by Guessedworker on Wed, 23 Apr 2025 07:04 | #

I would contend that by far the principal pathway for any “information virus” is the faith-led mind, with its inherent subjectivity, absence of self-awareness, and receptiveness to practically anything - especially so in the case of the faith-led mind which has become detached from authentic exoteric religion.  In the case of Christianity, that “receptiveness to anything” embraces eternal salvation from a life of unbelief, which, at best, is a tragic misreading of cognitive fallenness.  There is a greatly reduced opportunity for Christians to hear reason, and even instinct (or nature) is systematically repressed.

Taken as a whole, faith as an evolved faculty of mind stands today in substantial contra-distinction to both reason and instinct, certainly among Europeans.  It should not be thus.  It evolved to support cognition.  But we have very little power to change its current operation, because the ultimate sources of our weakness are not in faith but in the two aspects of liberal modernity… the Judaic essence of liberalism and the mechanical overrun of techne.

I don’t wholly disagree with your lineman friend.  But Americans in particular suffer from the constraints of their formative liberalism, and from the weaker signal (weaker in terms of blood) which race gives.  There was something at the heart of the Old South which might once have led to a better way of being, but it is lost now.


37

Posted by Thorn on Wed, 23 Apr 2025 10:49 | #

SMH

In general, people of faith live lives guided by objectivity where reason and logic take precedence over their religious beliefs. This is the norm, while religious zealots and leftists or postmodernists represent the exception. 



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