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The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzleBoth India and China are countries that have had the sort of moderate contact with the rest of Eurasia that their position at two extremities of Asia would lead one to expect. Both India and China have had their own sophisticated civilizations for at least two thousand years. The Chinese invented such things as gunpowder and printing. The Indians invented the so-called “Arabic” numerals that we use to this day and one of their religions (Buddhism) has been enormously influential outside their own borders. Both Indians and Chinese do extremely well economically outside their home countries. To me this is a picture of two generally intelligent populations. Yet the average IQ score for the two differs markedy. Chinese score somewhat above the Western norm and Indians score markedly below it. How come? The usual explanation of IQ in terms of climate is straightforward. India has a much warmer climate than China and the severe Northern Chinese winter has selected heavily for ability to think ahead and intelligence generally. Consonant with that, it is only Northern East Asians (the Han Chinese, the Koreans and the Japanese) that have the IQ advantage. Southern East Asians (Filipinos, Malayans and Vietnamese) are if anything slightly below the British/American norm. As a very criterion-oriented psychometrician, however, I am not really convinced by that explanation. I know Indians very well and I have even done social surveys in India. And I cannot convince myself that Indians suffer any real disadvantage. I am inclined to the view that the difference we see lies in the non-genetic causes of intelligence. Since a third of intelligence is NOT genetically determined, environmental factors would be well able to explain the measured IQ differences between Indians and Chinese. So what could be the environmental factors that differ? Here we are as far as I can see entirely in the realm of speculation. The difference that occurs to me is the legendary Chinese devotion to education—which goes back long before significant Western contact. Even in the days of Marco Polo (Yes. I know that the Marco Polo tale is probably a compilation from various sources) entry to the Imperial Chinese civil service was via examination. India, by contrast, has nothing comparable. There was some stress on education during the British Raj but the Raj (or “Reich”, as the Germans would say) had nearly complete control of India for not much more than a hundred years (the Sepoy mutiny was in 1857). What DOES characterize the Indians as far as I can see is an enormous devotion to chat. The Indians are as talkative as the Chinese and Japanese are reserved. So it always amuses me to see the different contributions that the Indians and Chinese are now making to the globalized economy. The Chinese have become the workshop of the world and now supply all the widgets and gadgets that anyone could need. Our supermarkets are full of their manufactures. And what do the Indians export? TALK! They are the call-centre headquarters of the world! How fitting! And note that verbal ability is the core element in IQ. If you want a quick index of IQ, vocabulary size is the best available shortcut measure. So that fact too militates against Indians really being dumb. So what I think has happened is that the Indians have the depressed IQ scores that are characteristic of an overwhelmingly rural population (scores which rise with urbanization) but in China an equally rural population has overcome the rural handicap by an emphasis on education skills—and those skills help to maximize IQ scores. The lower scores of the Southern East Asians are usually explaimed by pointing to a history of interbreeding with pre-existing indigenous populations and I suspect that the Negritos (pygmies) are the main culprit there. Filipino and Vietnamese women in particular are still often remarkably short by our standards. Posted by jonjayray on Friday, December 31, 2004 at 11:10 PM in Psychology Comments:2
Posted by John Ray on January 02, 2005, 01:50 AM | # Fiji would be interesting as they are quite prosperous there 3
Posted by razib on January 02, 2005, 02:40 AM | # Fiji would be interesting as they are quite prosperous there well…their industry is measured i *relative* terms. lynn & vanhanen’s book gives 84 as the IQ of fijian indians. about the same as native fijians. don’t ignore the possibility of a lot of substructure in the south asian population along any given vector…. 4
Posted by John Ray on January 02, 2005, 05:49 AM | # Razib 5
Posted by John Ray on January 02, 2005, 05:53 AM | # Another point: Indians are even the farmers in Fiji and farming (sugar) is still their major industry. So they are unusually rural for expat Indians. All the Fijians (Melanesians) do is catch fish, tend gardens and “work” for the government. Both groups are thoroughly pleasant people though. 6
Posted by josh on July 09, 2007, 04:59 PM | # Richard Lynn two books: 1. “IQ and Wealth of Nations: 2 “IQ and Global Inequality” These two books have good discussions of issue. With whites centered at 100 (one hundred). Most of the world can be divided in five group.s Jews @ 113 IQ. Al Einstein and others. East Asians @ 105 IQ Euro-Whites @ 100 IQ US blacks, Hispaics, Filipinos, Mexicans @ 85 IQ Indians in India @ 80-83 IQ Black Africans in Africa @ 70 IQ Australian Aborinines @ 60 IQ It’s the Truth. from over a 100 years of testing and data gathering. 7
Posted by Irwin on August 20, 2007, 02:23 PM | # I doubt if the East Indian IQ is 85-80. I will rate them next to Jews, soewhere around 107-100 reasons: 1. Most of the mathematics which we study today came from the Indians. 2. Indus valley civilization was far more advanced and superior to any other civilization in the world. 3. Have you heard about any east asian winning a nobel prize for breakthrough??? 4. Indians have till now won Nobel Prize for breakthroughs 5. J.C. Bose was the real invebtor of Radio proved by the IEEE. 6. Most of the Doctors in US and UK are Indians and Doctors have an IQ somewhere around 100 else they cannot study medicine in the first place. 7. Often I have seen the IQ tests and results are racially biased! thanks Irwin , Moscow 8
Posted by James Bowery on August 20, 2007, 04:44 PM | # Thank you, Professor Irwin Corey. Superior wisdom, from a superior mind. 9
Posted by josh on October 08, 2007, 07:20 PM | # Jews @ 113 IQ. East Asians @ 105-108 IQ Euro-Whites @ 100 IQ US blacks, Hispanics, Filipinos, Mexicans @ 85 IQ Indians in India @ 80-83 IQ Black Africans in Africa @ 70 IQ Australian Aborinines @ 60 IQ It’s the Truth. from over a 100 years of testing and data gathering. These numbers are absoulutely True and correct. Ask yourself a simple question. How did present day India, Pakistan, Bangledash and Burma be part of the British Empire until 1947? How did the UK flag get to be on the flag of Australia and New Zealand? How did Africa get colonized from Egypt to South Africa? How did tiny UK conquer 1/4 of Earth land-space. How did 800 Spaniards conquered a million Aztecs in present-day Mexico. How did English and English, from two small nations get to be the world’s language. It all about the Truth. Do not fear th Truth. Let’s accept and embrace the Truth. 10
Posted by Oliver Cromwell on October 08, 2007, 07:48 PM | # “Often I have seen the IQ tests and results are racially biased!” This is a put-on, right? 11
Posted by Lurker on October 08, 2007, 09:00 PM | # Irwin mentions there being a lot of Indian docs in the UK - true. Dentists are far more likely to be white or Jewish, but far less non-whites are to be seen plying this trade. Vets are always white, Ive never seen a non-white vet in the UK. Not always Brits but always Euro/White. I mention these trades as I assume their entry requirements are not that dissimilar to docs. Im sure there is a story waiting to be told here but Im not quite sure what it is exactly. It could be significant that most docs are wholly or partly employed by the state (in the UK) whereas most dentists are private. And of course vets are a wholly private concern. 12
Posted by Shiv on October 13, 2007, 10:10 PM | # << Black Africans in Africa @ 70 IQ Australian Aborinines @ 60 IQ It’s the Truth. from over a 100 years of testing and data gathering. These numbers are absoulutely True and correct. Ask yourself a simple question. How did present day India, Pakistan, Bangledash and Burma be part of the British Empire until 1947? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fact #1: The Chinese empire was also brought down by the numerically smaller British, yet the IQ for Chinese is 100 (mean IQ), the same as whites. And some suggest their brains are larger (1400+ CC). The Japanese also badly lost to the Americans in WW2 despite surprise attacks and a militaristic culture (& govt.)....yet the Japanese have a HIGHER mean IQ than whites. (And no, it was not the nuclear bomb made by brilliant Jews that did the trick, it only hastened the surrender…) Fact #2: In India, Indians were largely a divided people. It is not one nation, but several joined by political will. The British used a divide/conquer tactic UNTIL the Indians unified under the INC ( a political aegis) and the Muslim League to win political concessions leading to freeness. Fact #3: There are over 40,000 castes and thousands of genetic pools due to castism, where people married within their own race and types for centuries. So there is NO one genetic racial pool. Fact #4: In the UK, a researcher by the name of Lin found the mean IO of Indians to be around 97, which is a stone’s throw away from whites (IQ 100). SEE Fact #3 for the reason why, plus add environmental factors—also available in sophisticated urban regions in India like Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta, Bangalore, Madras, etc. Fact #5: Bangalore is the hub of research investment in India, along with Hyderabad and other places. Several Western companies invest in R&D in India for engineering, software production, and bio-technlogy. This implies that the thousands of engineers, etc, represent an IQ of 115 or greater in urban regions, SEE Fact #4 to indicate the reason why Indians can compete with whites in IQ. Given the Bell Curve deviation, that means that an IQ of ~110 can be achieved by 10% or more the group. More than 50 MILLION Indians live in Urban India, which makes a large number of them (several millions) probably quite competitive with whites, within 3 IQ points. And this curve is actually erroneous, particularly amongst Indians due to the thousands of genetic pools caused by race intermixing and castes. So the intelligence levels can vary wildly. As a FYI, to validate my points with hard stats: FYI#1: FYI#2: FYI#3: Presently there are over 70,000 Indians who came from India to the US for studies, most at the graduate level - and largely in technology coursework involving math and hard science. They need to pass tough exams like GRE (a full math & logic exam lasting several hours), GMAT for business students (which I did myself, and it is long work), and English tests (TOEFL etc). All this is NOT possible with an 80-90 IQ. Kapish? 14
Posted by josh stein on October 25, 2007, 03:13 PM | # 1. What is the Truth? 2. What we wish the Truth to be? James D. Watson tells the Truth. Google the Native populatio the world. Jews @ 113 IQ East Asians in china, korea, japan @ 105 + IQ Euro -Whites in Europe, North America, australia @ 100 IQ u.s. blacks, mexicans, philipinos @ 85 IQ India @ 82 IQ Africa @ 70. Australian Aborigines @ 60 IQ China @ 105, Europe @ 100 IQ India @ 82. Just because we want people to be smart does Not make them smart. Read Tatu Vanhanen is the father of the Prime Minister of Finland. Not a comic book, fantay book. The books is about the search for Truth. There is a big difference between 1. What we wish the world to be. 15
Posted by Vic on November 01, 2007, 10:48 AM | # You cannot generalize Indian IQ as it varies tremendously amongst various sub population. Rushton and others disregard the high IQ results by Indian in the US (Hindus have the highest SAT scores as a subgroup) by claiming that this is because of selective immigration, and then take other results of lower IQ by indian immigrants as gospel, which is also a selective group. There are two types of immigrant from India. Initially Highly skilled Indians emmigrated to the US. This was the initial wave. Then their spouses and other relatives also emmigrated. This subset was not as intellectually gifted. Then there are the economic immigrants. These are typically people who are not doing too well in India. Part of the reason is that they could not compete in India. This is the labor class, and probably has low IQ. This is what is found in Fiji, Vancouver, Gulf, and Carribean. You cannot make generalization by just looking at one group. Britain probably has the most representative sample of immigrants. It has the doctors and engineers, along with the lower economic class people. IQ tests have shown that Indians in Britain have an IQ of 97, despite having a verbal disadvantage of not speaking English in majority of homes. Another study has indicated that as a group, Hindus do better than white english school children. Most of the population in India is rural, and their brain does not get the stimulation that is needed to do well on these IQ tests. However if you question them in their area of expertise, they have good grasp of nuances in agriculture engineering that is needed to be a succesful farmer, rural businessmen, street vendor etc. There is also a subsection of population that is regressive and dumb, and they tend to belong to the tribal and/or lower caste population. I would say that there is a population of 300 million in India with IQ comparable with that of white america. This essentially represents the so called middle class in India . Then there is another 700 million with an average IQ of about 92 (adjusting for what can be termed as Flynn effect). I would estimate that the average IQ of India is around 94… 16
Posted by voice on November 01, 2007, 11:08 AM | # If I were betting on it I would say , if they were raised in stimulating environment, that there IQ is close to white mean of 100. I would also bet that they have behavioural differences that make them lazier(work ethic) and are less altruistic that Europeans causing them to have an underdeveloped third world infrastructure. 17
Posted by Gordon on February 16, 2008, 06:23 AM | # I am a professor , I teach math at the university level. I wonder how many of the people on this forum interact in any setting that enables observation of any intelligent traits across the genetic divide. As an educator I do this daily and for as long as I have been running a classroom I have never had an Indian student fail my class. I can however count about a dozen east Asians and score fulls of Caucasians who did not make the grade. On the contrary I have had Indian kids top my class every other year. Also, my general observation has been that Indian students grasp concepts rather quickly and have much better problem solving skills. I for one cannot believe that the Indian IQ is lower than even the American mean. The guys who did the survey got something horribly wrong, these Indians are smart, very smart. 18
Posted by Fred Scrooby on February 16, 2008, 09:43 AM | # I have difficulty believing Gordon’s letter, which reveals an ignorance of the most basic statistical notions assumed in discussions such as these, was written by a university-level math teacher. It would be astounding if it were, and this teacher must in such a case be incompetent. Therefore I doubt the writer is being truthful. Now, there’s also something unsatisfactory about the prose style of this letter, an awkwardness of a certain sort — not to mention this glaring gaffe, “score fulls of Caucasians” where of course a native English-speaker would’ve said “scores of Caucasians” — that makes me suspect Gordon is foreign, not a native speaker. I’d guess he’s a Subcon, perhaps attending college in the States although his lack of the most elementary notions of statistical reasoning would be surprising in a college student. He’s certainly no math major, a flat-out impossibility for that reason. 19
Posted by onlooker on February 16, 2008, 10:57 AM | # Gordon, IQ notwithstanding; Could it possibly be it’s the West’s degenerate pop-culture that is at the root of the problem? I beleive that is exactly what’s causing Whites from achieving their full academic potential! You see, Whites in this day and age, in general, are preoccupied with entertainment and self indulgence. Conversely, Indians and East Asians take much better advantage of their educational opportunities. One only has to observe the study habits of the different races as it relates to their culture; ie, Blacks leave the study hall/library after an hour, Whites after 2 or 3 hours, while Asians are there 6 or 7 hours—ditto for the Jews. That’s the reason for the achievement gap. It’s that simple. 20
Posted by nicknguyen on February 18, 2008, 03:46 AM | # Gordon is an Indian name. Like a typical Indian, Gordon lies and twists to brag how bright Indians are. I have been working in India for past 15 years and witness myself how primitive, filthy and low IQ an average India is. For one thing, Indian normally use bare hands for food without washing. I am not talking about bread. They rake for food in soup with their bare hands. They also do not use toilet paper! They use their bare hands too for wiping their a$$! If you see a basin of water in front of an India toilet, stay away! 21
Posted by East Asian on February 28, 2008, 01:11 AM | # To the Stupid Poster Irwin,Moscow who said East Asians have never won a Nobel Prize,Actually there are HEAPS of East Asians that have won a Nobel Prize before. There are also heaps of Japanese Nobel Prize Winners, they include: There are many other great Japanese scientists who never won Nobel Prize but made medical breakthroughs.For example,DNA Replication ‘Okazaki Fragments’ was discovered by Japanese medical scientists Reiji Okazaki, Tsuneko Okazaki. Koreans have also won a Nobel Prize before.Kim Dae Jung won a Nobel Prize for Korea in 2000. The ancient Chinese were the greatest inventors ‘the four great inventions of ancient China’-Gunpowder,Paper,Printing and Compass were all invented by Chinese.This is all written in history books and was even on the ‘DISCOVERY CHANNEL’.Other ‘ancient Chinese’ inventions include:seismological detectors, matches, paper, cannon, flare, continuous flame throwers, fire arrow, paper-printed money, chain drive, escapement, pendulum, silk, multistage rocket, landmine, quilling-wheel, odometer, sluice gate, the canal lock, flash lock, rudder, pontoon bridge, water-tight compartment, blast furnace, porcelain, belt drive, dry docks, sliding calipers, the double-action piston pump, cast iron, metal stirrups, civil service examination system, paddle wheels, the iron plow, the multi-tube seed drill, the wheelbarrow, rotary winnowing fan, collapsible umbrella, toothbrush, trip hammer, trebuchet, kites, Su Song water-driven astronomical clock tower, grand canal, horse collar, chain pump, pound lock, the suspension bridge, the parachute, natural gas as fuel, the magnetic compass, the raised-relief map, the propeller, innoculation, the crossbow etc. So please don’t make stupid statements about East Asians inventing nothing or winning no Nobel Prizes without doing your research first,and read some history please. 22
Posted by charles lee on March 01, 2008, 03:58 PM | # 1. Nobel prizes. All east asians of chinese descent have won their Nobel Prizes while working in USA-based universities. True. they did win their Nobel prize, but not working in china. 2. The barbaric Imperial exams stunted science for hundreds. Rote-memorization of confucius stunted all creativity. Confucius made china-chinese into mindless-zombie idiots. goole confucius, imperial exams. Imperial government was abolished in 1911. 1911-2011, 100 years without a backward, primative government. 3. china has Hanzi- primative, barbarcic writing system invented by the devil himself. 3000-4000 characters just to read the newsapapers. what about an alphabet. abcdefghijklmnipqrstuvwxyz. goole alphabet The whole earth is now using a alphabet-based system. or numbers 0123456789 4. Now in the age of science-tech, google, yahoo, 21st. century flat-world, digital-world. we all know the truth. 5. Before 1945, world war II, japanese and germans can send army to invade another. Nations. Japan bombed pearl harbor. usa dropped two atomic bombs on japan. Hiroshima obsoleted invasion by large armies. There will be economic competition, tech, cultural competition among nations, among companies, among individuals, but there will be invasions by the japanese or germans. 6. Once china terminates, kills confucius, Hanzi, crap-zi, boy-emperor, foot-binding, religion, all of the ugly, primative, feudal past. and ccp (kommunist party), china will be a great nation again. 23
Posted by Berthold Friedmann on March 01, 2008, 07:16 PM | # nicknguyen, do you believe it is right to despise an entire group of people because they were born in India? No on chooses what they are, and yet you call them “filthy” because of something they cannot control? And you believe this is right? You are part of the lowest rung of humankind, and you still succumb to your primitive instincts of xenophobia. 24
Posted by Him on March 08, 2008, 04:29 AM | # Nguyen is a vietnamese name, they are the dirtiest shithole on earth, they smell of shit and seafood, they represents the poorest people in the western world. I have not seen them using any toilet paper either, becuse they eat shit. They eat raw seafood and crawling reptiles still very primitive. Chinese, vietnamese, malaysians, koreans, all come from third world countries, their claim to higher intelligence is hallucinatory and come out of inferiority complex, they are more closely related to Orungutans a primate just like Africans are closely related to chimpanzees and gorillas.
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Posted by Guessedworker on March 08, 2008, 09:20 AM | # So you are an Indian. Do you think that kind of language reflects well on your personal and national character? Do you think readers will sympathise with your point of view, or consider you self-evidently aloof from the “shit-eating orangutang” that you draw for us? Frankly, I am amazed that anyone so bereft of normal sensibility considers himself competent to offer an opinion on anyone or anything. Have you never heard the famous bon mot about discretion and valour? Aware of your profound limitations you should be choosing discretion, believe me. No go, and do not besmirch our proceedings again. I shall not object too strongly if you take Mr Nguyen with you. 26
Posted by Raja on March 08, 2008, 07:28 PM | # India is the world’s largest, oldest, continuous civilization. The IQ scores are not the benchmark in the determining the national IQ, the result can be manipulated and altered to give certain countries a significant advantage over others, especially in the western world which suffers from skin colour bias. These IQ scores can be used to reject people with dark skin in preference to light skin by assuming that they are of lower IQ. Chinese are light skin and are more acceptable to white men especially the chinese girls which are softer target for western males because of their stronger tilt towards multiple sexual partners. These IQ scores are nothing but a form of scientific racism, a old wine in a new bottle, to practice racism with a reason and even get a legal recognition for their evil deeds. You go and check the IQ score of a rural poor who are illiterate and malnourished and brand whole country as of lower IQ is nothing but a consiparacy by the racist west. The literacy rates in rural India are much lower than literacy rates in rural China, that can possibly explain the low IQ scores. The IQ scores are more relevant in the countries where there is less social divide between the socio-economic condition of the urban middle class and rural populace. 27
Posted by Lurker on March 08, 2008, 11:59 PM | # A very large number of sources seem to believe that the words navy & navigation are derived from the Greek word ‘navis’. (How silly of them to think that when Greece is only part of Europe and we all know how those inventive Indian mariners circumnavigated the globe and discovered Europe.) If you want to drop an e-mail to the (thousands) of websites propagating this myth I’ll be more than happy to post a list. I note that almost all the (hundreds) of sites that forward the sanskrit origin of navigation use exactly the same wording as you: “The very word Navigation is derived from the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH.” Though to be fair some of them drop the word ‘very’, so I contend that in this case you are merely parroting Indian propaganda. Regarding Bose and Marconi - and not to downplay Bose in other respects - to demonstrate Bose’s pre-eminence as a pioneer you need to prove that he not only did things first but that Marcon’is work derived from his. 28
Posted by To 'Him' on March 21, 2008, 10:42 PM | # Him, East Asians never said they were the most intelligent race and the most highly evolved race in the world.It was Western European Anthropologists and Scientists who said that,so please complain to these western european scientists instead of yelling insults atEast Asians for something they never wrote. Books that claim east asian intelligence and evolutionary superiority were all written by Europeans: “IQ and the Wealth of Nations 2002” is written Dr. Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Ulster, Northern Ireland, and Dr. Tatu Vanhanen, Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland. “IQ and Global Inequality” 2006 was written by Dr. Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Ulster, Northern Ireland, and Dr. Tatu Vanhanen, Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland. “Race, Evolution, and Behavior: A Life History Perspective (3rd Edition)” You are extremely ignorant to state that ‘Chinese and Koreans’ live in ‘Third World’ Countries.It only shows your lack of intelligence.Perhaps you should read a book or even wikipedia,before making such outrageous claims. ‘Chinese’ countries like Taiwan(Republic of China),Singapore and Hong Kong are ‘First World Nations’ ‘Industrialised Developed Country’. The ‘Four Asian Tigers’ (the only developed countries in Asian Continent outside Japan) are all East Asian countries- South Korea,Singapore,Taiwan and Hong Kong.Perhaps you should read up on the ‘Four Asian Tigers’. Vietnamese are not East Asians,they are South East Asians.Do you even know the difference? East Asians are Han Chinese,Japanese and Korean only. And no,East Asians do not run to White,Middle Eastern or Indian men for ‘so-called’ satisfaction.As an East Woman myself,I can honestly say 95% of East Asian woman strictly go for East Asian Men.The East Asian woman who date non-East Asian men are either (1)Not desirable among East Asian men hence are forced to look elsewhere for a partner, or (2)Grew up in a Western country and a have a Western mindset (3) Hookers 29
Posted by Chinese on March 25, 2008, 01:37 PM | # They say that East Asians have larger brains. If you say that Chinese have poor scores here in US, you are lying. Most of our children here are excellent academically. If you look into the student bodies at University of California campuses or most of very good pre-college schools in California, you should know that. I would imagine that the situation in Texas is the same for Texas’ Chinese populations (for they are almost all from more recent immigrants unlike California). 30
Posted by Chinese on March 25, 2008, 02:12 PM | # IQ test (like any other test) results have a lot to do with how the tested subject is programmed academically and culturally. A more educated person should have a better result. They should do some research on separated twins at very young ages. For curiosity, I had rushed through an IQ test before. I got 135. On a different day and a different test, I could get a much better or worse score. Intelligence is very hard to measure. Any measurement has limitations. 31
Posted by Chinese on March 25, 2008, 05:57 PM | # I just read this: http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530 I would have to take a deeper look at it. 32
Posted by onlooker on March 25, 2008, 06:36 PM | # For curiosity, I had rushed through an IQ test before. I got 135. 33
Posted by Him on March 31, 2008, 07:11 AM | # Indo-Aryans are the most spiritually evolved race in the world, the Rig veda, Puranas and the Geeta the ancient Indian texts which has shunned material existence of human kind in preference to the purification of soul and good Karma can’t be wrong. The low life western scum only lay emphasis on material wealth and waste their lives in over indulgence in SEX, DRUGS, AlCOHOL and Worldly Pleasures suffer from plethora of social problems, thats why they are mimicking animals. The most Obese and mentally ill nations in the world are in the west viz US, UK, Australia, still trying to generalise that other races stinks!!. Today’s world is suffering from various challenges which is casting a doubt on the long term viability of life on the planet Earth are created by western low life capitalist and scum bags who call themselves superior and of Higher IQ. The food and grain shortages, melting of glaciers, climate change, green house effect, extiction of wild life and faunal species, deforestation, population explosion, pollution of air and groundwater, dieing oceans and river systems, tonnes of waste generation, are the result of western greed for more wealth and it appears they have infected the whole world with this infectious disease of lust for pleasure and wealth- we are aproaching doomsday due to duffer and racists like Dr. Richard Lynn and Dr Vanhanen who are tryinng to make their living on absurd theories which has no substance. I bet these racist bastards have IQ lower than a Pig. 34
Posted by reality bites on April 05, 2008, 03:50 AM | # If you had been to India, had lived among Indians, and witnessed masses of the physically weak, mentally slow and disease ridden Indians in Slumbai, Bangalore, Madras, and Calcutta, you would have known that India will be the biggest liability of the earth. India has largest number of Aids infected, an ever increasing population, badly polluted environment, and depleted resources. With her government too incompetent to reverse these adversaries, India is a disaster in the making. It is NOT the low IQ that will doom India stupid! It is the Indian explosive breed like rabbit. If you were an Indian patriot, you should stop all these delusional ego-kissing hype and go back to the basics of growth control of India population! 35
Posted by Him on April 07, 2008, 05:38 AM | # No amount of racism and negative popoganda can stop Indians to accomplish what they want already they are the most successful ethinc group in the west. The richest man in European Union is LN Mittal worth USD 45 Billion, CEO of Arcelor Mittal the largest steel company in the world. Indian Americans are one of the most successful ethnic group in the US with average household income worth USD 60,000, over 2 million of them are more successful on an average than whites, it is not by accident but due to strong influence of vedic culture and higher level of intelligence. Indians are as successful as East Asians or Jews in the US and UK this proves that Indians enjoy higher level of intelligence contrary to what some racist says. I can also say that Americans are the dumbest people on earth who spent 3 trillion dollars on fighting an imaginary enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan and now they are facing economic recession and poverty with million of jobs axed and 36 million on food assistance due to poverty. And that is some what true after all which country on earth will let their people starve to search for WMD which doesn’t exist. India will be a superpower in 20 years’ His next prediction is equally interesting: India will become a superpower in another 20 years, even earlier if Indians propagate their culture and legacy effectively in the West. The motivational speaker, who left his corporate job seven years ago to foster the spread of Hindu and Vedic culture in the West, looks like a typical American till he opens his mouth. The barrage of Sanskrit shlokas, names of ancient rishis and quotes from Indian philosophers that emerges thereafter, however, could give any desi a complex. Lauding Indian contributions to the world of science and the arts, the incorrigible Indophile rues the fact that Indians abroad are not networked. It’s also unfortunate that there is no systematic plan to reach out to the millions of non-Indian people in the West who love, respect and follow Indian traditions like yoga and vegetarianism in their daily life, he says. Currently on a tour of India, the Armstrongs are now settled in Canada. Maintaining that India is already becoming an intellectual leader of the world, Mr Armstrong says that even ayurveda is fast picking up in the West. “In the US alone, over half a dozen universities have been approached to recognise ayurveda as a complimentary therapy and I am hopeful that within a couple of years, this branch of medicine will be as popular as other Indian therapies like yoga and transcendental meditation,’’ he says, adding that the National Ayurvedic Medicine Association (NAMA) has already been set up in Canada and the US to promote the cause. To bolster his prediction about Indians becoming leaders of the world in the near future, Mr Armstrong declares that the maximum outsourcing for the West is now from India. In almost every sphere of activity, Indians are the frontrunners,’’ he says. “Most of the prominent scientists, doctors, technocrats and innovators are Indians.’’ The couple, which has founded an educational institute called the Vedic Academy of Science and Arts (VASA), is now working on creating a permanent library of Hindu and Vedic culture in Vancouver. Their clients include successful businessmen, lawyers, corporate executives and leaders of society. “Bring as much knowledge from India as you can,’’ concludes Mr Armstrong. “People in north America are eager for it.’’ 36
Posted by VM on April 10, 2008, 12:46 PM | # Although some of the data is a little old, this link shows rankings in several categories by ethnicity (complied by Arthur Hu). 37
Posted by asdfasdfasdf on April 22, 2008, 09:45 PM | # so you can see yourself who has the higher IQ!! Yes, you have robber barons living in the UK while millions of Indians starve. 38
Posted by RJ on May 01, 2008, 12:01 PM | # When u discuss India, it is unfair to lump extremely diversified Indians as a single race especially when u cover the topic of average IQ. In addition, India is governed by hundreds of thousands of castes and sub-cultures. We have some very intelligent castes in the North and also have some low IQ castes in the South. Indians comprise of many different racial and genetic traits because of her histories. India was once conquered by Arabian. The Arabians mixed with local women and left behind the religion and genie pool. Turkey also conquered India and forced with locals and again left its genetic trails. Persians also invaded India and mixed with local women and had their decedents in India. So did Afghanistan. Even Mongols conquered India and mixed with local women. Now, India has oriental looking Indians. Only Aryans invading did not force issues with local women and maintained the different genetic traits. In short, u have to differentiate highly intelligent high caste Northern like Northern Brahmins from low IQ southern low caste Dravidians. However, I do worry that lowly southern Dravidians outbreed Northern high castes and will further bring down India average IQ. 39
Posted by rec1man on May 14, 2008, 09:19 PM | # India consists of the following disparate and genetically separate populations Brahmins , 5%, 125 IQ Averaging this will give a composite IQ of 93 The above is for the section of population that is well fed In India, Malnutrition is 55% as against 10% in china and this would drop IQ about 10 points from what it will eventually be In addition, the chinese IQ tests were done in Beijing and Shanghai I shall test my hypothesis Indians in Fiji were recruited as contract laborers and the british wanted a docile and illiterate 40
Posted by rec1man on May 14, 2008, 09:23 PM | # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematics Fields of Indian mathematics Arithmetic: Decimal system, Negative numbers (see Brahmagupta), Zero (see Hindu-Arabic numeral system), the modern positional notation numeral system, Floating point numbers (see Kerala School), Number theory, Infinity (see Yajur Veda), Transfinite numbers, Irrational numbers (see Sulba Sutras) 41
Posted by momoftwoboys on May 16, 2008, 10:28 PM | # wow I’m a US mom of two little boys. they are going to a Chinese immersion elementary school here, since I want them to have a bigger world view (than your typical American) I googled Chinese, language, IQ, to see how they may benefit from our school choice, and got to this site. I’m not sure I want them to be part of the world community after reading these posts. I’m pretty sure KINDNESS exists in all your cultures, does it not? I shun (despise) organized religion, but I love this (bible) statement. “Much is expected from those to whom much is given, for their responsibility is greater” You all seem so ready to post your IQ; find a greater cause. 42
Posted by Wayne1770 on May 23, 2008, 06:46 AM | # Interesting articles on how China is outperforming India on almost every meaningful measure of social and economic progress: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Life_expectancy I want both India and China to do well. I have never heard a Chinese disparage India’s efforts to improve themselves. But plenty of Indians seem to dislike the Chinese resurgence. I do not want to put India down, but if attacked - hence the articles at the links above. Indians get real. You are going nowhere with that backward, immoral Hindu religion. The Chinese at least had the gumption to get rid of foot-binding, landlordism, and feudal superstitions. This could only have happened under a communist government. 43
Posted by Rohan on May 27, 2008, 11:12 AM | # To identify myself in this very narrow context I state that I am a 143 IQ Indian. So I lay before you the two parameters on the basis of which you judicious people have so kindly classified entire populations. The world moves forward towards globalization and you sit behind the cloak of anonymity that the internet offers you , taking snide shots at each others ‘genetic pools’ and ‘races’. Do you guys realize how stupid you sound? There are smart people, average IQ folks and downright dumb folks in every country and race. Yes the average IQ of one country may exceed that of another. So what? Are you actually that insecure about your heritage and lineage that you need to prove it here?? - Through posts on a site?? Local governance has nothing to do with IQ. And that’s a fact. Countries didn’t colonize other countries because they were ‘smarter’. If they were smart enough they wouldn’t resort to colonization or war in the first place. Besides what is the big deal about IQ anyways? The test is heavily biased and proves nothing in real life. There are tons of people with astronomical IQs doing absolutely nothing with their life. Yet I know people, who with much lower IQs can create art, music, literary compositions, I could never dream of. Irrespective of their country. Some of the views thrown about in this forum only prove that the authors have very limited IQs and restricted thinking abilities. Please engage these sparse faculties of yours in something more constructive and refrain from commenting on topics you know nothing about. That will help your country/ race/ gene pool/ football club/poker league alot more. Trust me. 44
Posted by Lurker on May 27, 2008, 01:14 PM | # “The world moves forward towards globalization and you sit behind the cloak of anonymity that the internet offers you , taking snide shots at each others ‘genetic pools’ and ‘races’. Do you guys realize how stupid you sound?” Anonymity - the good old double standard rears its head. If I as a white person in a white country, the US, Europe etc say I want white people to remain a majority I run the risk of prosecution, accusations of racism, facism, nazism, loss of employment. You as a non-white can pop up in our territory and happily cheer on the day that we will be a minority or even cease to exist, even organize political groups to that end (eg La Raza in the US) and suffer what penalty? Nothing as far as I can see. So you can take your anonymity and shove it. Internet - the one that our people conceived, designed, built and implemented and now see used by the likes of you. We’ll do what we like with our internet thanks, you go and start your own from scratch. “The world moves forward towards globalization” So, remind me, how is that African immigration into India coming along? After all African labour is even cheaper than Indian, I really cant see what the hold up is. The Indian government wouldnt be so stupid and racist as not allow anyone to settle based on trivialities like race, IQ, culture etc. “what is the big deal about IQ anyways? The test is heavily biased and proves nothing in real life” Im glad you mentioned that Mr 143 IQ, it certainly removes the single flimsy justification for us importing you into our territory. 45
Posted by Nitin on May 29, 2008, 04:43 PM | # Wow! Some real eye openers here.. On how people of different communities look at each other. About who is smart, and who is not. About whose internet it is, and whose it is not. About who gave the world the world of mathematics. And finally, about how the lowly South Indian dravidians who are bringing the nation’s(India’s) IQ down. The list is never ending! I am a south Indian, and probably of dravidian race (lowly, perhaps?). And I am not ashamed about who I am, or from where I come. I would not like to label myself with an IQ, so that you may decide whether to hear me out or not, based on what I write, not by the number which tells me my competence. Honestly, we Indians have a long way to go. Not with respect to the IQ though. I have traveled extensively in my country and am always amazed by the wisdom that is inherent among the Indians. But, we are not testing wisdom, are we? We are testing intelligence. IQ tests in the present format, are formal methods aimed at testing the educated people. Unfortunately, thanks to the bungling of the Indian political system, and the lack of awareness among the junta, education in India has a long way to go. So the average Indian is not trained enough, and would certainly not fare well in a formal IQ test. Most Indians who are not in Urban India, would never ever have appeared for an IQ test in their lives. Internet has changed a lot in India. Yeah, yeah.. your internet! Wayne1770 mentioned about Indians disparaging the chinese resurgence. Well, there would be, because we Indians aren’t growing fast enough, and the Chinese make sure that we are occupied with various issues with our neighbours. Such as the terrorism emanating from Pakistan, to which China exports nuclear capable 3000 km range missile technology; or the drug and mafia circuits through Nepal and Bangladesh; Nepal where the Maoists with the help of the Chinese have taken over the nation, and Bangladesh, to which China gives goodies so that they are anti India. With all these subversive policies against India, wouldn’t you think that Indians would be wary about the Chinese prosperity, which they use to keep the Indian nation down? Indians have a lot to do to get their political, judicial, social and educational system right. Democracy does not work for a new born nation. Communism, with the power in the hands of the right people- the visionaries works. India embraced democracy, and power fell in the hands of the people who were not capable nor had the inclination of developing the nation. And in democracy, a wise man’s say is as good/bad as that of the unwise. China surged ahead during this time like a start-up running with a corporate structure. I hope I was able to throw some light on the issues pertaining to India and China, the relationship between them, and most importantly, why the IQ of an average Indian seems lesser compared to the Chinese. Democracy has its own positives and negatives. We have seen the negatives till now, and as the average Indian becomes more educated and aware, the positives of democracy should show up. I have no excuses though, for the relative poor performance of us as a nation in terms of development. Looking back at this longish post, just proves what we are good at! Talk! 46
Posted by Nitin on May 29, 2008, 05:18 PM | # Lurker, I did not understand your comments! First, how does anonymity and the issue of white majority relate? The political organisation is real. They are not anonymous. Second, Internet. If you so much wish to use only your internet, please do so. Stop using products of Google, Sun, Microsoft, Amazon, Target, Alcatel-Lucent, Motorola, Bell, Texas Instruments etc. ;all those companies whose research and development is done in India. Go back to your internet of 1995. By the way, where do you think the internet was developed? US? Third, Globalisation. We have enough number of people in our own country and the competition is too huge for the africans to survive. Finally, there are enough Indians who DONOT wish to migrate, and so the companies themselves migrate to India. Globalisation is here and it is here to stay! 47
Posted by Nitin on May 30, 2008, 01:12 AM | # Here’s a link which may give you some cheer, as far as Indian development is considered.. 48
Posted by vixflix on May 30, 2008, 08:55 PM | # I am an Indian, work in UK. Indeed Whites or may be Brits have the highest IQ, since they ruled almost every part of the world except Japan. 1. Why did 2 out of 2 world wars fought in Europe?
Rest were English criminals who were sent to American Land. Australians are they any different from them ? Indeed Brits have a highest IQ because they know how to divide and rule, and professors of corruption which they have taught to 3rd world. No wonder Indians were their best students. What does India/ china export products, garments, software and TALK of-course (call centers)? Indeed UK and US Nationals have greater IQ than the rest of the world. Once India was Gold (not golden) sparrow and now what it has become .. thanks to high (very) IQ of Brits Anyone who has paranoia should seek a help of a psychiatrist (Please see a US or UK Born doctor next time), careful of Low IQ-ed Indian Docs. 49
Posted by Peter on May 31, 2008, 03:00 PM | # vixflix I really liked your post! Ya you tell them! 50
Posted by kid 1 on June 01, 2008, 02:21 PM | # hi all,, this is an interesting topic…..... i am a chinese kid around 18 years old, and my college here got around 50 other overseas chinese kid and about 30-40 indian who are studying A-level currently, the total number of pupil of the whole college is around 300 i have been here for 3 years, and every year i looked the top 100 pupils, and i was amazed by the names on the list… around 20-30 pupil are chinese, how come there are so many chinese while the chinese pupil papulation in uk school is about 0.0001%? by the way, i dont really rely on NHS, simply because there are so many Indian doctors, i am afraid their mis-diagnose.. white doctors are good though, but too few of them i can see lots of stuffs are made in china here, partly it is due to cheap labor ,secondly it is chinese are more skillful and fast learning…. but where is the inidan thing? the truth is china is now fully technologically restricted, everything have to do by themselves ...otherwise many europeans will lose their job now…. the only thing that chinese failed is the english language, chinese english is not as good as the indian in our college, partly bacause chinese kids have been learning it for 2 or 3 years, while the indian are born here
china has dominated fields of techology and art before 1600 AD, but surpassed by the british impire about 1800 AD ... THIS IS because the british went industrialisation, while the chinese went central planning and stronger bureaucratism which didnt encourage techology inventions and science developments anyway, let’s see what china will become in 20-30 years , and india….... my only hopes are there are no wars and earthquakes…...............
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Posted by vixflix on June 03, 2008, 09:27 AM | # kid 1 and all who are reading this post. The point here is not where will China/ India or any other country would stand in next 2 or 3 decades. Every country has its own problems / limitations and of course there positives and resources which are yet to be exploited. China is not the only country where earth quakes come, Japan has more number of earth quakes recorded than any other nation, isn’t it? I bet where people are busy in dealing with the basic need of food, shelter and clothing you can not expect them to score 100 or above in IQ test. FYI: English is spoken only in Cities in India. From my point of view Human Intelligence will only prove its worth if they do something useful for the planet and for the life form. I think all of us here arguing on the question of which Country has highest avg IQ, we have proven that we lack The Common Sense. 52
Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 12:13 PM | # Dear author of blog post, You are indeed correct with your assumption that the IQ score for India is probably incorrect and likely due to external factors. In fact, Lynn himself did a recent study of South Asians in the United Kingdom and found an average of 95, higher for Indians but lower for Pakistanis. So Indians were around 100, Pakistanis around 90. My own studies of Indians in the United States show an IQ that’s even higher - however these are not your average Indians. The immigration policy of United States brings more bright and talented Indians so they have become the State’s most talented minority, but do not represent the average Indian. The United Kingdom estimate seems more realistic because the U.K. immigration brings more average Indians into the country. That’s why normal Pakistanis in the U.K. do poorly, but the Indians still do very well. For example, they score second highest on GSCE exams (after the Chinese). This supports the estimate mentioned above. We can also use Singapore to estimate Indians average IQ. Indians in Singapore are mostly those who came as laborers, brought in by the British, just like the Chinese. The measured IQ of Chinese in Singapore is 108, and Malays have a score of 92. Indians, in all socioeconomic factors, are between the Chinese and Malays, usually inching towards the Chinese. While they have very high incomes and education rates, their actual examination (test) scores are in the middle between the Chinese and Malays. So that would enable us to estimate an IQ of around 100 or so. This matches the earlier estimate. Of course, India has many ethnic groups. In my view, Muslim Indians tend to do the worst while Parsees do the best. Overall, South Indians (darker) do better than North Indians (lighter) but not by much. The country itself will lag behind China in potential because China is a very uniform country while India is a patched up place of hundreds of different interest groups to fulfill. -Takahata Joe 53
Posted by Takahata Joe on June 07, 2008, 12:18 PM | # kid-1 Your name speaks volumes about your intellectual capacity. I find it amusing that you “prefer” white doctors even though Indians the UK are, on average, more educated and score higher on tests than whites. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=461 Not that I don’t understand, of course. The majority of people do not have the capacity to do research before forming opinions. 54
Posted by L on June 07, 2008, 06:40 PM | # The blatant racism on this page is ridiculous! Is it really possible for Africans to have an IQ of 60, when considering that an IQ of 78 is classified as mentally retarded? 55
Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 06:59 PM | # “L,” Prof. Rushton addresses your question here. There’s no contraction although it may seem as if there’s one. Lawrence Auster has also dealt with this issue at his site; I haven’t got the exact reference. If memory serves, he reconciles it in a slightly different way from Prof. Rushton. But he does reconcile it. If you’re interested, here are more Rushton articles. 56
Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 07, 2008, 07:01 PM | # That should be, “There’s no contradiction ...” 57
Posted by dumbindian on June 09, 2008, 12:53 AM | # Rushton’s analysis seems to be right. Even with Brahmins which are just 5% of India’s population, they can’t pull up a country with so many low IQ people. Probably India is also destined to mediocrity alongwith North Africa and other low IQ nations. I am a (low IQed) Indian who is seriously thinking of migrating to Canada now…...... maybe with so many high IQ people around I might learn new things and make little improvements to my low IQ!!! Unfortunately Canadians on average should become dumber if they let me inside their country. My small mind has a humble idea for Dr. Rushton. Why not import all Ashkenazi Jews to the west since they have the highest average IQ. Then surely western countries will become unbeatable. Why dont they start doing it. Anyways maybe I’m too dumb to comprehend such things. 58
Posted by Takahata Joe on June 09, 2008, 04:23 AM | # Dear “dumbindian” If you have an opinion, why hide behind a false identity to say it? In my opinion, I agree with the original poster of this article that I see no lack of IQ potential from Indians, unlike, say, Africans. I don’t believe they have the same overall average as East Asians (around 106), but their more pronounced variance can be an advantage. 59
Posted by Fred Scrooby on June 09, 2008, 08:46 AM | #
Sounds great. Except for one thing: Ashkenazi Jews do to Euro countries what termites do to homes, methodically destroy them from the inside out. They can’t stop: it’s in their genes. So, all Euro countries had best reduce their numbers to a minumum until they show they know how to behave (which, it being in their genes, may never come to pass). 60
Posted by Kostas Agnelli on June 11, 2008, 02:54 PM | # Wow! I just stumbled upon this blog. What is it? Is the new Chinese government propaganda website? Why do the Chinese fear the Indians so much? There seems to be a tremendous inferiority complex going on here. You don’t have to worry my Chinese friends, we Americans will import enough Chinese toys and furnitures to keep you fed. Just don’t go on a brag-trip and tell everyone how smart you are because this website is a testimony to the contrary.Also, for the Indian bloggers on this website, restrict yourselves to solving mathematical problems, designing computer softwares and on answering phone calls. That is your specialization at this point, any argument you guys try to make on this blog does not sound as eloquent or compulsive. 61
Posted by vixflix on June 16, 2008, 11:10 AM | # Kostas Agnelli “for the Indian bloggers on this website, restrict yourselves to solving mathematical problems, designing computer softwares and on answering phone calls” Of course Americans are too busy with attacking other nations for oil. Lets see for how long that oil is going to last. aaha do I need to mention about the state of US Economy is in? 62
Posted by rec1man on June 23, 2008, 10:32 AM | # kid-1 wrote In Singapore, where the Chinese have 108IQ ( highest among chinese ) and the chinese have been in singapore for 100 years just like the low caste Indian diaspora in Singapore La Griffe Du Lion has an article where he shows that verbal IQ of east asians is 4 less than whites, Google up Offshoring and India 63
Posted by rec1man on June 25, 2008, 08:58 PM | # http://www.indianpediatrics.net/july1999/july-669-676.htm Low birth weight vs IQ study in Pune Social and Environmental Assessment Thirty per cent of the mothers had some degree of college education, whereas one per cent of the mothers were illiterate. Five per cent of the children lived in independent bungalows and the rest in lower and middle class localities. Most of the children (91 %) came from middle or lower middle class families (SES II or III). Fifty six per cent of the children lived in overcrowded houses. A multiple linear regression analysis was done using IQ as the outcome variable and infant and socio-environmental information as predictor variable. The predictor. variables included socio-economic status, locality, spaciousness of the house, mother’s education, etc., mental and motor age on}3ayley Scales at one year (available from the previous phase of the study), and chronic medical problems like seizures and asthma. The regression analysis showed that mother’s education (? coefficient 0.33373, p <0.001), spaciousness of the house (? coefficient 0.19424, p <0.020), and a mental age at one year (? coefficient 0.22959, p <0.009) had a significant impact on the 6 year IQ. Chronic medical problems had a negative impact on the 6 year IQ (? coefficient - 0.3573, P <0:020). Multiple R of the final module was 0.4354. --
IQ = 70-84
IQ = 85-110
Mean IQ 64
Posted by gpit on June 27, 2008, 12:32 PM | #
Indians all over the world are lack of confidence… This IQ stuff is written by the white. Are you telling us the Chinese has commanded European Counries? LOL! 65
Posted by Han on July 11, 2008, 11:11 AM | # The same old biased studies and arguments is being rehashed again with some new looks. As others have said in their comments, Richard Lynn has manipulated his data by testing malnourished Indians in remote areas and comparing them to Beijing urbanites to achieve the results he wants, which is not surprising seeing that he is well connected with the Pioneer Fund just as Rushton. 66
Posted by mammu on July 26, 2008, 04:02 PM | # him bhai .. are you indian or aryan?? dont bring up aryan theory for real desis .. we should avoid the white supremacy aryan theory. they are the ones who destroyed our ancient civilization..(harappan /indus) aryans were nomadic worriers .. they were like the mongols of the medieval era… u know the mongols re-painted even the ancient iranian chronicle with east asian faces(they are lucky because it happned in the recent years..and could correct well in time).. the same happned to india long long time ago and we never know what was the reality ... the aryans worshped natural forces..and brought in some mythology but there is no proof that hindu culture was something invented by them. besides no one will accept you as aryan(except for few afghan looking minority) .. why to be a follower .. we are indians .. today indians are catching up ... and we dont trust the white IQ theories ..these are all memdia stunts !! 67
Posted by mammu on July 27, 2008, 08:03 PM | # We brown people are the most peaceful race on this earth!! everyone talk shit about darker people .. just becasue brown people never committed any attrocities to the humanity in the entire history of human civilization. we built civilizations ..indus harappa ... some barbarians (white scholars say they were aryans) destroyed our civilization .. the engineering skills we had .. they committed crime and dispersed our brown people southward .. these criminals started divisive society ..... they re-wrote our history .. well i think the fact is they absorbed most of our civilized culture ... the way mongols became iranians /pakistains /indians .. if mongols would have been super power today .. they would have theorised totatlly different view of the world… atleast i appreciate genghis khan ..who believed in meritocracy .. blacks /browns /whites ..anyone could rise to high rank.. here we see a lot of crap theories of the brahamins/upper caste ... lets get the shit straight dude .. the whole world knows that most of the engineers/doctors/scientists from india are the original brown people. it’s the concrete proof that brown people in india are IQ lifters!! most people from the north are more related to barbarians.. certainly they have limited IQ ... so here is the actual scale of indian IQ distribution. Brown/Dravid - 110-120 (indus/harappa..currently the most advanced society engineering/science/ in india) most of the white shit suckers from north ...are all barbarians .. white people why dont you take them with you .. they’ll be really happy to serve u.. but let me worn you they still have barbarian instinct!!! 68
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 27, 2008, 09:05 PM | #
Mammu, what color are the Tamil Tigers? [Oh ... those links just above? Just ignore them, they weren’t supposed to be in there. How’d they get in there?? Don’t click on those, ignore them, OK, they’re not important, don’t read them.] Right, now ... where were we? ... ... Oh yes, now I remember, I was asking what color, or what shade, dark or light, the Tamil Tigers were ... Any idea? .... If you need to look it up it’s OK, I’ll wait .....was just curious, go ahead ..... 69
Posted by Darren on July 27, 2008, 10:04 PM | # mammu: Since you Dravidian types are so cognitively elite, I’m sure you all will have no problem with building up your own economy without dependence on outsourcing from barbarian whitey or immigration to our lands, right? I think I’ll let the social situation and demographic character of it in India speak for itself. 70
Posted by mammu on July 28, 2008, 03:31 AM | # Fred you must be a disguise of a north barbarian or a white supremacist who tried to prove all the cool things that happned on te earth were initiated by whites!! hitler formed a team of scholars to research in greece to cliam they were actully from german… the fact is original elite smart greeks had already become turks!! .. so you tell me what is the need for you to prove the barbarians to be smart people.. in that case you should also prove the turks are the smartest people.. i feel pity to see the double standard of the white scholars… i tell you majority of the turks are greek population ... u better accept them as whites. now regarding color ... u must have the sense of average .. i dont project tamil but average indian .... observe bengal/maharstra/MP/...... majority are brown . 99% of the talented indians are dark.. 99% parasitic indians are fair skinned. facts can not be changed!! 71
Posted by mammu on July 28, 2008, 04:10 AM | # Darren bhai you tell me .. why north states are still so backward inspite of being really a huge society!! it’s because the there is still pchychological grip of the barbarians !! bro if you are a true indian and u have slightest of brown pigments on ur skin ..look at it and try to understand why u hate so much to have those pigments!! u probably must be trying to get a fair girl to get rid of that… this is not your fault but history ... lets make a simple analogy here , take the khan title .. u’ll probably think most khans are aryan origin .. now you find out the origin of khan title !!! u’ll be surprised to see it was introduced by the mongol overloards!! now why should they keep this title if they didnt feel cool about it!! this is a simple example of pschychological grip imprinted by a powerful but barbarian regime. the same pchyche is imprinted deeply among our north bros .. this is a major obstacle we indians should try to overcome .. otherwise vast majority of our talents will remain hidden behind the pschycological grip of the barbarians .. btw i speak not for dravidians or aryans but on behalf of avegare indian…. i dont believe in the origin theory but a mixing theory… so there is no pint trying to find who are ur roots .. only weak society try to affilate themselves to some powerful group. we are all mixed .. the whole world is mixed .. there is nothing called completely pure race ... how could white looking ainus be tribalized in northern japan.. the chromegnon men of the america..east asian migration to america.. the migration of the asian huns to europe ..hungary/spain/and other gaul areas.. the arab empire in middle east..migration of the vikings.. there are endless historical facts to prove that everyone is mixed. so be proud to be a mixed race and stand on urself instead of affilating to some obsucure white root theory. 72
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2008, 08:53 AM | # Mammu, we know that brown people can be smart and pale people can be barbarians. We just don’t want to get changed into brown people by the present unregulated immigration policies and the array of laws that go with them, laws whose effect is government-enforced artificial elevation of browns over whites in whites’ own countries. We don’t like that. We’re not trying to put browns down but if we get angry enough we won’t care what we say and it’ll seem as if we are. Now, that seems simple enough to understand but right at about this stage in the conversation, the stage where someone on our side says what I just did, namely we don’t have anything against other races, we just don’t want to get changed into them, the member of the other race we’re talking to begins questioning the legitimacy of that next, namely our preferring to remain our own race, unmixed. If you’re now going to start doing that, Mammu, you’ll persuade no one here, so save your breath. 73
Posted by Darren on July 28, 2008, 09:24 AM | # Mammu, I really don’t care and nobody else does either. What is your point? You have failed to support your arguments. I really don’t care about who is the “superior” race (ultimately, such questions are a pointless waste of time, regardless of who wins and to what standard they proclaim), but you seem to be obsessed over convincing us that brown people are superior without any data beyond your insistence. I’m a “universal nationalist” and wish you and your people well in establishing an ethnostate. The sniping we do at each other, from both sides, doesn’t accomplish anything. Regarding your argument that we’re all mixed: I don’t proclaim that all Europids are “pure”. I only believe that there are obvious differences between the races (whatever their current genetic state may be) and as such, we have the duty and obligation to future generations to preserve our ethnic genetic interests by avoiding any future race mixing. I don’t believe that (most) Europeans are mixed to any significant degree, but its pointless to get into a debate about what happened in the past. We only have the future to work for. You are spending plenty of time trying to convince us that we’re all part of a barbaric race, so that would seem to imply that you support racial separatism. 74
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2008, 12:18 PM | #
Darren makes a good point, which often gets made, in one form or another, by people on our side — if we’re barbaric, Mammu, you should agree with our keeping apart: a person doesn’t normally wish to mix with barbarians. 75
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2008, 12:23 PM | # This point gets made with respect to the perpetual white-Negro problems here in the States: if whites are so bad, so mean, so unjust, such thieves, rapists, lynchers, so dumb, so much worse-looking physically, and all the rest of it, Negroes should like nothing better than to be separate from whites and finally at long last free to flourish to the full extent of their potential. Whites would be very happy with that too, so what’s the problem? Who is it who’s forcing us together when we are unhappy together? (I’ll bite my tongue rather than divulge the answer.) 76
Posted by mammu on July 28, 2008, 03:38 PM | # Fred , Darren ..i didnt mean to target white ... i never talked about the real whites ... i have been been talking about these bogus whites .. who are irresponsible to the extend that they hate to accept what they actually are. i’m brown ..u can say light in the indian perspective… i know u people like purity .. what about we people who are already mixed .. i’m trying tomake a point that both blaclk and white component in me deserves equal reward without any of which my type never would have existed.. but majority of my type prefer to affilate themselves to white and it’s an obstacle in uniting our society. partially this is due to publicized aryan thmeory ..which originated during the british colonial time… those days were the days of white supremacist .. these days whites are the most rational people… atleast in those days the indus civilization was forcefully attributed to the aryan theory… our society fell apart competing to be the coolest race .. but now we know that indus civilization didnt belong to aryans ... but by now the aryan theory has become so popular that even 5 year old kid knows about it. the problem is incomplete knowledge !! anyone who has partial knowledge of history will be biased .. but once we dig deeper ..we realize that every race has something to be proud about at some point of time in the history. the mayans , egyptian , mesopotamia , indus , chinese ,greek , roman , british empire , the current civilization dominated by northern european origin… none of them are supreme beings ... it’s matter of time window ... today white people are the focus point ... it could be the black people after 1000 years! btw beauty is matter of soft power .. it primarily comes from prosperity and well being.. i’m sure if blacks would have been very prosperous , well groomed and whites would have been poor, rugged like the afghan people beuty would have been defined by the standard of black people. of course we must accept the current reality the….whites are the most civilized race as of today! but i’m not someone who would affilate myself to white.. because i believe in inherent objective property of human… surely i would have been a pro-white if i would have lived in an era when blacks would have been practicing supremacy over whites. 77
Posted by nakama on July 30, 2008, 03:01 AM | # it’s entertaining to see some of the indians here bashing the chinese and then starting to provoke fights among themselves… 78
Posted by jonjon on August 18, 2008, 05:34 PM | # It’s an interesting topic! I’ve never taken the whole IQ thing too seriously, but I do think that it raises some interesting points. Taken together with other test results such as science and math Olympiad can give us an interesting look into ‘IQ’ as a whole thing. The East Asians indeed did very well in math and science competitions. Indians perform far less than expected, frequently fall behind Iran, and even Vietnam. Many Indians tend to find excuses for this shortcoming by pointing to poverty and cultural differences. But we’re all know that Vietnam is a poor country, ravaged by wars, manage to outscore India in almost every Olympiad while Vietnam population is only 1/13 of India!. So what’s the culprit? It’s IQ indeed! By the way, if you don’t like Lynn’s study, there are many opposing and independent researchers on races and IQ.. one come to mind is Robert Lindsay, he pointed out many holes in Lynn’s theory, and also confirm many of Lynn’s findings. Google “robert Lindsay IQ” 79
Posted by menon on August 21, 2008, 04:49 AM | # Richard Lynn is a racist whose work is superficial shallow and dismissed by most respectable academics. He predicted based on IQ scores (sometime in the late 70s) that Japan would be the superpower of the world, based on the IQ scores. We all know what happened to Japan. And yet he is still plugging away at his rubbish. He is a prof emeritus in some stupid Irish university. His ocunterpart And other thing (if all this crap is true) is the spread of the data. Perhaps the East Asians (because of enhanced quality of life) have improved their IQs but perhaps they are clustered around their average IQs as given. While for the other countries (esp the White countries), the spread is greater. There are more idiots (like the ones we see here, including me for joing in) and there are more geniuses. I think that definitely is the case for white. Over the last 4 to 5 hundred years they have been remarkably and incredibly inventive, far ourstripping East Asian or Indian contributions to the history of mankind. Also White conutries suffer from low population growth. And pointing out individual successess is wrong as this is an average. But one thing true, Chinese living standards are relatively good (because of Communism where they soread the fruits of labor) and Indian standards of living are hugely disparate, from the terrible poverty of the Dalits to the excesses of the filthy rich. Go read Leon Kamin (God rest his soul) 80
Posted by iqdoestmatter on August 30, 2008, 09:33 AM | # Well, according to Lynn’s latest study < > the east asians have a mean iq of 105 with a SD of 16, the SD(Standard Deviation) is higher than that of the whites(mean=100, SD=15). Note, SD is the number indicates if the IQ is spread wider (higher value indicates wider). So basically east asians dont lack genius such as Fields Prize and International Math Olympics Gold Medal winner Terry Tao (whose IQ is above 220+) nor they lack idiots. Ironically, the Jews are the only race that has very narrow SD, the mean iq of Jew is 115, but the SD is only 8.9, which means they should be considered as the race which lacks genius and idiots (i.e. iq spread narrower). However considering the Jews’ well-known academic success, it may suggest that actually in the academic world, intelligence is not the only thing. Maybe personality/culture/living conditions,etc, play a bigger role than IQ, and maybe, in the academic world, when IQ is beyond a certain required level, it doesnt help you that much, especially considering the extremly high iq person usually lacks motivity, since everything looks so easy to them at the first glance, they lose their interests quickly. I think IQ itself, even in the academic world, is highly overrated, therefore we should not take it so seriously. 81
Posted by Jeff on October 16, 2008, 05:33 PM | # Here are some of my perceptions 1. Why Jews have the highest avg IQ? 2. Indian generic subgroup Brahmin should have very high avg IQ 3. But why India has so low avg IQ? 4. Why the white and Indian have bigger IO variants than East Asian? 82
Posted by Jeff on October 16, 2008, 05:42 PM | # 5. What this means for the world? 83
Posted by nomcerit on December 28, 2008, 05:16 PM | # West media is guilty of hyping up the fallacy of Indian coming superpower status. Whole India is now right on this steroid and wholeheartedly believes that India is a tech superpower. The facts of matters are that Indians on average are very low IQ. International IQ study experts estimates that Indian’s average IQ is 81. The IQ stats well explains why 600-700 million Indians can not even write their own names and majorities of Indians live below sub-Sahara countries living standards. While Indian upper caste elite blogs here bragging wildly, most Indians do not have clean water to drink, have no electricity, and suffer from no sewage system. Hundreds of millions Indian urinate and defecate in the open. Mr. Singh told the BBC that more than 65% of India’s population defecated in the open, along roadsides, railway tracks and fields, generating huge amounts of excrement every day @http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4742929.stm. These include so-called middle class. Majorities of Indians actually can not afford toilet paper so that they have to use bare hand to wipe their as$. The sewage/sanitary system are so bad so that politician offer toilet for a parliament seat. http://www.indax.com/trculture.html . Because of the low average IQ, Indians are prone to believe all sort of phony stats as facts as long as they hype up Indian supremacy. People LOL when Indians brag that Indians make up 50% NASA scientists, 40% Microsoft and started 1/3 American high-tech startup. These bogus stats are internet hoax to make fun of Indian braggart nature. However, hundreds of millions of Indian believe these funny stats. It is understandable that average low IQ Indians are prone for these lies. However, it is stunning that even Indian parliament also believe these hoaxes. Indians government official also cite these bogus stats to declare Indian dominance in US, making Indian government a laughing stock of itself. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_in_NASA_Govt_falls_for_net_hoax/articleshow/2856295.cms India.ns are opting to complain the stupidity of their government. They conveniently forget they elect them themselves. 84
Posted by Baron on January 10, 2009, 12:34 AM | # Actually, the Southern Chinese (Hong Knong, Guangdong, Taiwan, Shanghai) have the highest IQ’s in the world and are genetically closer to SE Asians. Vietnam has an IQ of ~94-96 based on Tatu Vanhanen’s guesswork, but probably has an IQ closer to 99.5 (based on real studies). Negritos ARE closer to surrounding Asian populations per se, but that doesn’t mean SE Asia in particular. The Andamanese (pure negritos from the Andaman Islands) contributed to the Japanese gene pool. The Andamanese and the Japanese are among the few groups in the world that exhibit hablogroup D (Y-DNA). https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html?card=my029 85
Posted by Vineet Kumar on January 19, 2009, 12:46 AM | # Hahaha. Vanity is my favourite vice. Ahh, is it just me or somebody else too notice that the author of this article with his shoddy writings and third-class musings smell of an Indian slumdog- a forced convert? Then he really is a true epitome of this great finding by Lynn, Rushton et al. Any way, it is nice to see Indians fighting. The most self-deprecating, self-mutilating lot in the world… Half of the guys bashing the Indians must be Indians themselves. And the Funniest Man Award goes to Mammu for his excellent, unsuspecting comedy of the Dravid and his Brownies, which was actually targeted at a North Indian audience but the Tighty Whiteys appreciated it more. :D — @Chinkooz 86
Posted by G.Subramaniam on February 15, 2009, 12:35 AM | # La Griffe Du Lion, makes the case that the key component of IQ is In Singapore, the labor class Indian diaspora, outscores the chinese in english La Griffe Du Lion, has an article wherein based on law bar exams, he claims that In India, most of the population is bilingual, Hindi and the local language The top 100 mil is tri-lingual This verbal IQ components is not measured in ravens matrices 87
Posted by baoling on February 20, 2009, 05:18 AM | # I am a Chinese studying in US. I have to say, every ethnic group has a lot of smart people. The average IQ itself depends on the education, social structure, wealth and nutrition. Jews are said to have the highest average IQ; however, if you throw a jew kid into forest and isolate him from the other people, I am quite sure 10 years later his IQ test score will be pretty low. Someone said the jews had higher IQ because they survived in Europe. Maybe he forgot those jews in China, who have been completely absorbed into Han Chinese. Does this mean Han Chinese is even smarter? No, this is just because Chinese are much more than those Jews and Jews in Europe are very similar to native whites. Jews in Europe and US are no longer pure Jews, and their major components in their blood are from whites, mongolian or both. Pure Jews share the genes with those people in Arab. You can also look at the average IQ of Isreal, which is even lower than US. If Jews are so smart, why were they so quiet in science and inventions untill recent centries? There are several Chinese Nobel prize winner who received the eduation in US. They are supposed to be similar if not less smart than those Chinese in China, since they are just the descendents of normal chinese farmers. Considering the population in US (only 30% of that of Jews), their achievements are not bad. Why didn’t 1.3 billion chinese produce any Nobel prize winner? It’s a matter of education and wealth (everyone knows that without money no research can be made). When China becomes rich (as it was before being conqued by Manchu), I am sure China will produce many inventions and techniques as it did in the past. My point is that , IQ depends on the other factors much more than genes, and the current achievements can not be used to judge IQ. 88
Posted by Ben on February 26, 2009, 10:30 PM | # “Jews are said to have the highest average IQ;” Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average. This appears to be due to selection for high IQ over recent centuries. G. Cochran, J. Hardy, H. Harpending, Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence, Journal of Biosocial Science 38 (5), pp. 659–693 (2006). Professor Steve Hsu has some links on the hereditability of intelligence (like most behavioural traits it has a significant hereditary component). http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2009/01/psychometrics-links.html 89
Posted by Enya on April 03, 2009, 09:07 AM | # By putting each others races down what have you guys achieved? There are people of all races getting ahead. Just because Indians are lablelled as retards does not stop them from becoming doctors, lawyers, engineers, entrepreneurs….. Its all about circumstances and opportunities. I come from a wealthy Indian business community. My IQ is probably below average. I was given the opportunity to study at Uni and came out with two business degrees and in the top 5 perecnt. I am sure if someone in a rural village was given the same opportunities as me, would come out as doctors and scientists. Who knows! This is all just pointless. I do have a charmed life because of my parents. I get to travel the world but does that make me more intelligent than someone poor. No!!!! 90
Posted by Ram on April 12, 2009, 08:59 PM | # I can see hell lot of jealousy against Indians on this blog, Indians are the intelligent, articulate and enterprising, even a person who has not been to school has better surviving skills than Whites and Chinese. TO jeff, the most Indians in the US are Dravadian South Indians and they are as inteligent as other Indians in their abilities. Infact South India is far more developed and has higher literacy than North India, and they are fast approaching the socio-economic parameters of the developed world. The silicon valley of India is Bangalore a major outsourcing hub of billion dollar IT majors, Chennai, Hyderabad are also the most technologically advanced cities in South India. Therefore your assumptions that only higher caste Brahmin Indians are having exceptional intelligence is farce and has no substance. The South Indian Dravadian Indians who are majority in the US are found to be as successful as Brahmins though they are having darker complexion. Even the Mongoloid Indians in North East Indian states of AP, Mizoram, Sikkim, Meghalaya are not found to be more intelligent or successful than other indians, though they look very similar to Chinese. Infact south India is more developed than many other Indian States who have people with lighter skin like UP and Rajasthan. Skin colour or gentic makeup cannot guarantee higher IQ and wealth, if that is the case why the western countries have to import millions of immigrants as skilled professionals, whom they fear, despise and resent. Why millions of whites on social welfare and dole in the US, UK, Canada, NZ and Australia. Indian Americans are the richest ethnic group having higher average incomes than whites and they come from all backgrounds, many of them are from lower caste backgrounds, from India, Fiji, Uganda, Trinidad and Tobago, South Africa, Singapore, Malaysia, mauritious to name a few. How can Chinese be more intelligent than Indians, just take the example of this blog, most of the intelligent and truthful comments are made by Indians. Chinese are parochial and too narrowminded to think above their own culture they have poor grasp of English and, Indian are global, they have better grasp of English, more articulate, flamboyant and flexible than East Asians. One more thing most people who make it to the top of corporate structure are having much higher Emotional quotient than Intelligence, EQ is more important than IQ becuase if you don’t know how to control your feelings and behave in particular environment, you sure going to loose. 91
Posted by Al Ross on April 13, 2009, 03:14 AM | # http://www.vdare.com/rushton/070926_indians.htm The above link will demonstrate that, like so many Indians, Ram cannot be trusted and this is also the view of the rural Malays whose saying as regards the voluble, dusky, head-wagglers goes - “If you are walking through the ‘ulu’ (jungle) and you spy, simultaneously, a cobra and a Keling (Tamil), which one do you kill first”? Guess the correct answer. 92
Posted by Ram on April 13, 2009, 06:43 AM | # What is emotional intelligence, how can it be measured and then put to use? Socio-biologists fret over these questions because what we call emotional intelligence are such amorphous traits as character, “people skills,” civility that can not be quantitated like we measure intelligence (though that’s also debatable). Regardless of the debate, however, one thing is surely established that these characteristics do improve our behaviour on the streets and in the communal settings; they also help us achieve our life goals—job performance, success of our marriage and our socio-economic status. Scientists would love to measure our emotional intelligence and give us marks on EQ—emotional quotient. And then tell us how to improve it to improve our lives. If measuring EQ is difficult, we find that applying it to good use is even more difficult. It is because the relationship of EQ to success is not straightforward. And we need to understand something about human emotions before we embark on the road to apply this new science to our daily lives. Emotions are typical human traits. As humans evolved they needed a lot of emotions to survive: fear driving blood into the large muscles, making it easier to run; surprise triggering eyebrows to rise to widen eyes to gather more information; disgust wrinkling up the face and closing the nostrils to keep out foul smells; maternal love to help offspring survive and a lot more that we are still learning about. The cortex and neocortex of the brain that creates emotions have developed remarkably well to give Homo Sapiens an excellent surviving chance. (Reptiles like snakes without the neocortex eat their off-springs). These emotions, hundreds of them, have given us an uncanny ability to associate our observations with survival threats making us a resilient species. Cockroaches have survived dinosaurs not because of their higher IQs but because of their extremely sensitive tentacles; they can feel the threat well before we raise our foot to stamp them. Those of us who can sense how other people will react to our behaviour do well in life; those who do not, end up jumbled at the bottom of life’s totem pole—intelligence or no intelligence. Such is the close and clear relationship between our emotions and our survival. The connection between the reasoning brain and the emotional brain is what makes the difference in how we respond to various situations of life. And it’s all summed up in what we call self-awareness—awareness about our own emotions. Most of us remain unaware of our everyday emotions, anger, anxiety, worry, sadness, discouragement, etc. and display them without regard to their impact on ourselves and on those around us. But those with high EQs have the knack of displaying them properly. Getting angry is easy but as Aristotle said, it is getting angry with the right person, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way—that is not easy. Anger, an emotion that primes us to action, is the hardest to control and the common advise to let it out now seems to be outdated for repeated anger accentuates its power, the new science tells us now. Anxiety serves a similar useful purpose as anger. Worrying blocks our thinking and precipitates the dreaded failure. Sadness and discouragement are “low arousal” states and more difficult to come out of than anger or anxiety that respond better to relaxation. But why do some people snap out of these emotional states more readily than others? Perhaps a hardwiring of our brain that gives us a better self-awareness of our emotions. Similarly, people who have better “people skills” like empathy, graciousness and the ability to read social situations, fare much better in life. Empathy is an innate quality shaped by experience. (Even infants of three months old show empathy towards younger infants crying.) In the corporate world we know that it is the IQ that gets you hired but it the EQ that gets you promoted. People who rise the corporate ladder aren’t necessarily the brightest but certainly they are good charmers—people like them, feel confident with them and best of all trust them. The classical fatal flaws in corporate careers include some of the worst emotional traits: poor working relationships, being authoritarian, or too ambitious, and having conflict with upper management. People who succeed always pay attention to what others think of them and consequently they always weigh their actions putting other people’s opinion ahead of theirs as to what they would think of this action. My mother’s frequent recitation, ” zabane khalq ko naqqarae khuda samjho,” seems to have a scientific validity now. 93
Posted by Al Ross on April 13, 2009, 03:43 PM | # EQ attributes are acquired skill-sets and are thus not directly comparable with IQ which has a preponderantly genetic component. 94
Posted by Englander on April 13, 2009, 04:56 PM | # These diaspora Indians do so like to talk-up the cognitive ability of their group. They must assume that we’re unacquainted with the India that they left behind, and the people who inhabit it. 95
Posted by Lurker on April 13, 2009, 05:58 PM | # Enya…
Thats great, why do they need to do that in our territories? In fact why do they succeed in our territory, why must we acquiesce to that? 96
Posted by danielj on April 13, 2009, 06:35 PM | # I was given the opportunity to study at Uni and came out with two business degrees and in the top 5 perecnt. I am sure if someone in a rural village was given the same opportunities as me, would come out as doctors and scientists. Just what we need, a world full of Indian doctors, scientists, and lawyers from the land of the goatfuckers. 97
Posted by danielj on April 13, 2009, 06:42 PM | # That’s why normal Pakistanis in the U.K. do poorly, but the Indians still do very well. For example, they score second highest on GSCE exams (after the Chinese). This supports the estimate mentioned above. That is because the tests are culturally biased and skew the results to favor Indians over Pakis. 98
Posted by Al Ross on April 14, 2009, 03:00 AM | # Indians are, on average, so unintelligent that all Bollywood films are required to include interminably boring song-and-dance-round-the-Banyan-tree routines (which, in a Euro milieu would be considered fodder for gays) in order that the government meets its objective of demonstrating to the decidedly dim double-digiters that cinema is not, in fact, reality. 99
Posted by TripleGold on April 19, 2009, 03:10 AM | # To EastAsian, When you mentioned Chinese Nobel Prize winner, you forgot to include Dalai Lama. He won the Nobel peace prize in 1989. Also the average Indian IQ of 81 can be correlated to the data of another indicator. Google IMO (International Mathematic Olympiac) and you can see the ranking of India is in line with the average IQ of 81. 100
Posted by Ram on April 20, 2009, 08:55 AM | # India did fairly well in Mathematics Olympiad than many European countries, that means Indians have much higher IQ than Whites, out of 90 countries who participated India stood betweeen Rank 7 to rank 14, from 1995 to 2004, which actually proves that Indians have higher IQ not low. 101
Posted by Ram on April 20, 2009, 09:23 AM | # A Reader In India Disputes Rushton On Intelligence Re: J. Philippe Ruston’s Column: Indians Aren’t That Intelligent (On Average) I wish to dispute the statements in Professor Rushton’s sarcastic article and in particular to his egregious references to “political implications.” 1) In South Africa, Indians have emerged as the most powerful race because the intellectually inferior, lazy, and drug/alcohol consuming white race is not be able to survive under black political and Indian economic take-over. This has been the case in Kenya, Uganda and Zimbabwe where Indians (who are numerically fewer compared to blacks and whites) have managed to dominate the economy. Other examples are Fiji, Mauritius, Suriname and Guyana. Whites in these countries could not compete economically and have fled. And white Afrikaners cannot compete without a government handout. 2) In Singapore, one of the darkest-skinned groups of South Asians, are the Sri Lanka Tamils. (I suggest Ruston’s main problem with Indians is that he cannot get over how dark the skin our skin is so he churlishly puts them down as if they were black) Yet, they were a model colonial community under the British Empire. In fact, the white British exported the Sri Lankan Tamils who have traditionally been judges, magistrates, doctors, lawyers, engineers and senior civil servants in the various South-east Asian colonies. 3) In America. Even among white populations, the Indian has shown himself superior in all ways. Indians are ethnically the wealthiest community in California, surpassing the Japanese, and are far more intelligent than white Americans. According to the 2000 U.S. Census Indian Americans have the highest median income of any national origin group in the United States and Time Magazine recently published a lengthy feature about the Indian successes and riches amassed. Merrill Lynch estimates that there are nearly 200, 000 American Indian millionaires. Indian Americans own 50 percent of all economy lodges and 35 percent of all hotels in the United States, which have a combined market value of almost $40 billion. A UC Berkeley study reported that one-third of the engineers in Silicon Valley are of Indian descent, while 7 percent of valley high-tech firms are led by Indian CEOs. In 2002, there were over 223,000 Asian Indian-owned firms in the U.S., employing more than 610,000 workers, and generating more than $88 billion in revenue. Thanks to Indians, America is rich Indian immigrants set up more technological start-ups than people from the four next biggest countries—the UK, China, Taiwan and Japan—combined. Of the estimated 7,300 such start-ups, Indians accounted for about 26 percent, the study said. 4) In the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Chinese pupils are best-performing ethnic group with 86 percent passing national curriculum tests. School children of Indian origin come second with 85 percent while achieving the same standard while only 80 percent of white British pupils manage to reach a similar level in the assessment For a professor, Rushton has an alarming lack of basic geographical and historical knowledge. His attempt to lump Indian Hindus together with Middle Eastern and North African Arabs is absurd to say the least. India is part of the free world and has been a democracy with a free press and Independent judiciary since independence from Britain in 1947. 102
Posted by Ravan on April 20, 2009, 05:47 PM | # Well humans can be grouped into three IQ groups. As browns were formed by the interbreeding of the advanced races and primitive races, they are halfway between the both in intelligence and appearance. 103
Posted by Ravan on April 20, 2009, 05:55 PM | # Ram said ‘Thanks to Indians America is rich’. America was already rich and a superpower before Asian Indians went there in large numbers. He also said ‘Indian Americans own 50 percent of all economy lodges and 35 percent of all hotels in the United States, which have a combined market value of almost $40 billion. ‘which translates to more cheating and cutting corners until the White owners are kicked out of the market. Also more nepotism. Without large numbers of Indians, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Austria, Finland, Iceland etc…. are advanced countries. With all its Indians Fiji and Trinidad are backward countries. To be prosperous a nation needs more Europeans (especially Northern Europeans) and North East Asians. The browns and blacks are at best parasites. Capice. 104
Posted by Circuit on April 21, 2009, 05:11 AM | # Hey Ravan is a slant eyed Chinese who consider himself white, but he is too low and unintelligent to understand that whites hates Gooks as well, Infact they attack and destroy their businesses and property even before they bash any Indian or Middle Eastern. Your point of view hold no ground as their are no primitive race or advanced race, infact genetically all human beings was evolved from same parental tree in Africa. Morphological differences are used to classify people as three distinct groups namely Cacasoids, Mongoloids and Negroids. Different Antropoligist can use several criterias to classify human beings on different parameters but it has no scientific validity. Millions of Chinese are starving to death, and more than 500 million works on paltry wages of less than $2 a day, what is the use of this kind of intelligence, is it not better if they born as Americans, black or white regardless they will atleast get good economic opportunity to better their lives 105
Posted by G.Subramaniam on April 22, 2009, 01:03 AM | # In the 2008 US math olympiad team, there are 6 members and The US Indian diaspora is 60% upper caste blend, 40% middle caste blend In the 2003 new immigrant survey, run by Princeton India = 112 With a different caste blend, the IQ will be different In India, the malnutrition level is same as sub-saharan africa, The immigrant children in US have good nutrition 106
Posted by Ravan on April 22, 2009, 01:49 PM | # I am not Chinese. I am Ravan, His Majesty King from Lanka. Lanka is not Chinese. I am Sita’s lover. 107
Posted by Ravan on April 22, 2009, 01:59 PM | # Subramanyam, Maths Olympiad is dominated by Whites.
108
Posted by Ravan on April 22, 2009, 02:07 PM | # From Wikipedia article on Maths Olympiad
‘Several individuals have consistently scored highly and/or earned medals on the IMO: Reid Barton (USA) was the first participant to win a gold medal four times (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001).[25] Barton is also one of only seven four-time Putnam Fellow (2001, 2002, 2003, 2004).[26] In addition, he is the only person to have won both the IMO and the International Olympiad in Informatics (IOI).[27] Christian Reiher (Germany) is the only other participant to have won four gold medals (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003); Reiher also received a bronze medal (1999).[28] Wolfgang Burmeister (East Germany), Martin Harterich (West Germany) and Iurie Boreico (Moldova) are the only other participants besides Reiher to win five Medals with at least three of them gold.[2] Ciprian Manolescu (Romania) managed to write a perfect paper (42 points) for gold medal more times than anybody else in history of competition. He did it all three times he participated in IMO (1995, 1996, 1997).[29] Manolescu is also a three-time Putnam Fellow (1997, 1998, 2000).[26] Eugenia Malinnikova (USSR) is the highest-scoring female contestant in IMO history. She has 3 gold medals in IMO 1989 (41 points), IMO 1990 (42) and IMO 1991 (42), missing only 1 point in 1989 to precede Manolescu’s achievement.[30] Terence Tao (Australia) participated in IMO 1986, 1987 and 1988, winning bronze, silver and gold medals respectively. He won a gold medal at the age of thirteen in IMO 1988, becoming the youngest person to receive a gold medal. He received a Fields medal in 2006.[31] Oleg Golberg (Russia/USA) is the only participant in IMO history to win gold medals for different countries: he won two for Russia in 2002 and 2003, then one for USA in 2004.[32] Vladimir Drinfel’d won a gold medal with a perfect paper in 1969, representing the Soviet Union. He went on to win a Fields Medal in 1990.[33] Grigori Perelman wrote a perfect paper to win a gold medal in 1982. He went on to win a Fields Medal in 2006. (However he declined the award.)’
On a different note, Hanumaan burned my kingdom with his tail last time but this time I am better prepared. Lanka is equiped with the most advanced of water sprinkers (installed by high IQ and good looking Northern European and North East Asian engineers) and we have a new fire fighting team (An idea we got from the Northern European British). I dare Hanumaan to do it again. 109
Posted by Ravan on April 22, 2009, 02:20 PM | # Hey Circuit, Paki cow fucking Sand Nigger, yes I agree honkey YTs hate gooks. I believe dat is becuz pale skinned Whitey be scared of chinky gooks and shit ever heard of that term ‘Yellow Peril’, biatch? Neva heard of ‘brown peril’ or ‘brown peril’ havya? Cuz evil Whitey realised that of all the races slant eyed gooks were the biggest threat to them and shit. Not niggers nor pakis but gooks geddit. Anyways I miss Sita. My lanka is made up of ugly blackskinned rakshashas. Maybe I should allow more gooks and honkeys in. Will definitely improve the IQ and looks (and smell) of da place. Whatdayasay? 110
Posted by Circuit on April 23, 2009, 05:08 AM | # Gooks are so dumb they have not invented anything worth while so far they only copy western technology and masters in pirated software and DVDs and use their ugly looking primitive people to manufacture kitchen knives and toilet paper for advanced countries on paltry wages of less than $2, the [removed] shoes and Addidas T-shirts AmericanS wears are made in Indonesia for nothing, using slave labour. Apart from Japan which is a little bit developed North/South East Asia is quite poor and underdeveloped. Burma, Bhutan, Nepal, Mongolia, China, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Phillipines are poor developing countries, Singapore and HongKong was former British colonies. Chinese, Indonesians, North koreans pay huge bribes to people smugglers to transport them to America or Australia and they risk their lives to travel in leaky boats where many are killed while crossing borders. This is all hype created by vested interests, most of these gook Asians want to leave their countries to settle overseas, the living conditions are too bad, pollution is choking, communism and dictatorship sucks, corruption and bribery is rampant, quality of life is bad and not at all comparable to welfare states in Europe and America. Race and intelligence The Flynn effect is the rise of average Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test scores, an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at varying rates. Scholars therefore believe that rapid increases in average IQ seen in many places are much too fast to be as a result of changes in brain physiology and more likely as a result of environmental changes. The fact that environment has a significant effect on IQ demolishes the case for the use of IQ data as a source of genetic information.[86][87]
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Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 06:56 AM | # LOL, you ugly cow fucking semi primitive monkey think I am a chinky gook but I am not. I am neither Gook nor Honkey. But I rather be a Gook than be the ugly low IQ monkeys living in that shithole called India. You guys are one of the most ugliest, mixed breed mongrels in the world. Some look Indians look like niggers, some look like aboriginal savages, some look like honkeys some like gooks. Most look like a combination of everything. Your ugly faces and bodies look like a mismatch of every primate on earth. You nation is a bastard nation created by the mass fucking of everybody. If you see the sculptures at khajuraho you will understand what I am talkin about. On a different note, Sita sent me a love letter saying she finds Ram’s member too small and she enjoys sex with me after all. All that war and killing and loosing my eight heads for nothing. She is coming to Lanka on the next Air-Lanka Vimaan from that shithole called Ayodhya. Shout aloud ‘Jai Shri Ravan’. Yeah Ravan rulez. Ram sucks. Hanumaan sucks. 112
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 06:59 AM | # Enough of that PC rubbish on race. The truth is The Northern Europeans and the North East Asians are the two most advanced races. The Negroid and Papuan/ Australians are the most primitive races. Browns fall in between. That is why they fall between the primitive races and the advanced races in IQ and looks. Capice. 113
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 07:25 AM | # BTW you curry munching retrard fail to understand that Indonesians, Thais, Malays, Vietnamese, Filipinos are not North East Asians but brown mixbreed south East Asians. In other words they are the same mongrel kind as you desis. That explains their mixed features and medium IQ just like South Asians. They like South Asians (Indians, Bangladeshis), Middle Easterners (Arabs) and other brown folks are mix breed mongrels with IQs and looks between the advanced races, Northern Europeans (Germans, Russians, Swedes) and North East Asians (Japanese, Chinese) on one hand and the primitive ape races, Negroids and Papuans. Capice. And remember Ravan rocks. Kumbhakarna (May he rest in peace) rocks. Surpanakha (may her nose rest in peace) rocks. 114
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 07:46 AM | # I agree with jon jay ray’s article up to some extent. The brown skinned tropical dwellers (Arabs, Indians, Malays etc…) tend to be better at abstract thinking and verbal IQ related abilities while North East Asians are more similar to Europeans as they are more practical and better at the visual IQ part. After all North East Asians evolved in the same cold conditions as Europeans. That explains why the religions emerging from South Asia/India and the Middle-East have been the most successful. But militarily Europeans (such as the British Empire) and North East Asians (such as the Mongol empire) dominated everybody as they simply built more advanced weapons. India itself was ruled for several centuries by the descendants of the Mongols (Mughal is the Persian for Mongol) before the British Raj. While the Europeans conquered everybody easily, they found conquering East Asians the hardest. 115
Posted by Circuit on April 23, 2009, 08:44 AM | # Idiot, Gooks are Gooks, whether they call themselves Chinese , Japanese, Thais , Malays or Indonesians, they are having flat faces, slant eyes and flat nose that means they are ugly, most of them lives in under developed poor countries without any democracy and human rights, they are not at all comparable to Europeans in IQ or looks, they are refered as Orientals or ‘Yellow race’ by the Europeans themselves, their countries are communist slums with little freedom of expression. Millions of starving and undernourished people in China itself with economy so much dependant on the US that if it sneezes the whole China gets flu. Whatever vested interests will say about race and intelligence the truth is Europe and America has best welfare states which provides good economic opportunities, healthcare and good standards of living to its citizens, the North/South East Asia, Indian Subcontinet or Arab countries fall way behind in all socio-economic parameters. Looks wise Caucasoids are the best looking whether they are from Europe, Middle East, North Africa or India(IndoAryans), Mongloids are not good looking and look more like a ape, just like Negroids and Australoids. 116
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 08:57 AM | # I agree gooks are gooks but there is abig difference between North East Asians like Chinese, Koreans etc… and South East Asians like Vietnamese, Thais etc… in looks even if here are overlaps. However in average IQ North East Asians outdo South East Asians and South Asians easy. IQ wise South East Asian gooks cluster with curry munching smelly desi cow fuckers. Anyways I have to go. Sita is waiting. She is all strapped up ready for a little dirty spanking. Ravan’s member will be happy tonight. 117
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 09:18 AM | # In I enjoyed sita’s vagina. man is she tight or what. 118
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 09:27 AM | # Funny these curry monkeys. but in reality the vast majority of them look like these ugly monkey/nigger/honkey/gook/papuan/chimp/pig hybrids Funny. 119
Posted by Ravan on April 23, 2009, 11:05 AM | # Very good Photo 120
Posted by Circuit on April 23, 2009, 08:10 PM | # http://www.artofthesteal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/face-generator-pictures.jpg A caucasian woman more like a monkey with Gook features in this image, flat face, flat nose and slant eyes, so primitive like ape, there countries are communist slums, they have invented nothing just steal and copy what their White masters invent. The reality is Caucasoids racial group is the best looking and most intelligent even the computer and internet you are using was invented by them, East Asians are working in factories for less than $2 a day for their white masters. It is China and Japan which have export dependant economies to the western nations mainly to the US, not the other way round. Most Chinese live with world class inferiority complex and thats why they try to cheat the world with their low quality and fake consumer goods, toys with lead paint, laptops with exploding batteries, poisonous pet food, vegetables with toxic pesticides, even toxic milk and baby food. Chinese can’t b e trusted they are dodgy and corrupt people with nefarious designs. High IQ my foot?? Most educated Chinese wants to immigrate to western countries, with labour rates one of the lowest in the world and standard of living so poor. These Chinese even fake their Olympic fireworks, can you trust them, they might have paid one or two Western Psychologist and Anthropoligist to improve their profile in the western world, to market them as high IQ people. East Asia can hardly be classified as developed when majority of its population works on less than $2 a day, the healthcare is poor, no social security, pollution is choking, standard of living are poor. These countries are just serving the western interests by providing them facilities and factories to manufacture consumer goods using them for paltry wages. 121
Posted by Ravan on April 24, 2009, 04:53 AM | # Hmmm, you have some issues with gooks. Anyways slant eyes is not a ape or primitive feature. They (like light coloured eyes and hair) are actually more evolved features. 122
Posted by Ravan on April 24, 2009, 04:56 AM | # I agree with you circuit on the fact that post 1500, Whites have invented about 90% of the things. 123
Posted by ethanallen on April 27, 2009, 09:43 PM | # It does appear that societies strongly based on the thoughts of Confucius have most signally failed to produce top quality computer programmers. This is almost certainly a societal thing and unrelated to IQ so perhaps IQ is not so important. 124
Posted by Circuit on April 28, 2009, 07:31 AM | # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Fund Richard Lynn, Philip Ruston and various other guys are funded by anti immigration groups in the west, the data published by them is bogus and fabricated, to serve the cause of the Pioneer fund and their likes. There books are published post circa 2000 when immigration to the western nations is at record levels from the developing world, also expose their dubious intentions of persuading the western governments to stop immigration from the so called “Third world countries.” The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), a nonprofit organization, lists the Pioneer Fund as a hate group citing the fund’s history, its funding of race and intelligence research, and its connections with allegedly racist individuals.[29][3] They also state: “Race science has potentially frightening consequences, as is evident not only from the horrors of Nazi Germany, but also from the troubled racial history of the United States. If white supremacist groups had their way, the United States would return to its dark days. In publication after publication, hate groups are using this “science” to legitimize racial hatred. In Calling Our Nation, the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations publishes a piece by a New York psychologist surveying the work of Jensen, Garrett and numerous others. National Vanguard, the publication of former physics professor William Pierce (see The Alliance and its Allies) and his neo-Nazi National Alliance, runs a similar piece that concludes that “it is the Negro’s deficiency ... which kept him in a state of savagery in his African environment and is now undermining the civilization of a racially mixed America
Several negative reviews have been published in the scholarly literature. Susan Barnett and Wendy Williams wrote that “we see an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation. The data on which the entire book is based are of questionably validity and are used in ways that cannot be justified.”[10] They also wrote that cross country comparisons are “virtually meaningless.” Ken Richardson wrote “This is not so much science, then, as a social crusade. The Pioneer Fund of America, champion of many dubious causes in the past, will obtain little credit from having assisted this one.”[11] Thomas Nechyba wrote of “relatively weak statistical evidence and dubious presumptions.”[12] Astrid Ervik asked “are people in rich countries smarter than those in poorer countries?” and concluded that “the authors fail to present convincing evidence and appear to jump to conclusions 125
Posted by Kumar on April 28, 2009, 01:24 PM | # Happened to hit this website. I would say all these IQ researches are bullshit. “Japan is so successful” => find data to prove it. “Higher IQ”. “China is developing so quickly recently” => find data to prove it “Higher IQ”. And All these are just to prove the White superior since Whites are the most successful in recent several centuries, although they were living in dens like wild boars just 1700 years ago until Hun drove them out of their dens. India has civilization > 4500 years. It lag behind in recent centuries but It is catching up now. 126
Posted by GR on April 28, 2009, 01:37 PM | # India has civilization > 4500 years. It’s owing to some of those former den-dwellers that you’re able to communicate with us in our language over this medium. Even your native tongue, if it is not Dravidian, is that of an older set of those same den-dwellers. although they were living in dens like wild boars just 1700 years ago until Hun drove them out of their dens. I’m pretty sure they were on the move long before the Huns. Witness your national religious literature, the best of which was brought to you by those vile unkempt carnivorous savages, long before even the Huns took over your precious “civilization”. 127
Posted by Darren on April 28, 2009, 01:53 PM | # Circuit:
Heaven forbid. I’m sure the Boasian academics you adore are not funded by any issue groups!
Head in sand.
Libel.
Right, true academics don’t study what is going on in the world. Idiot.
Heaven forbid that anyone would do that!
An objective and honest source of information.
Right, racial differences should not be studied because more fantasy holohoaxes are going to happen.
But its okay when our opposition uses “science” to advance their hate-whitey agenda. Hypocrisy.
So the studies are invalid because of who chooses to quote and publish the data independently of the original authors? Huh?
If it was, you’d still criticize it. Kumar:
Durr, how about their booming economy?
Durr, how about their booming economy?
Lie.
So would you care to explain who those blue and green eyed Indians are with pale skin and where they came from? Care to explain why whiteness is adored by so many Indians? Durr! 128
Posted by GR on April 28, 2009, 02:13 PM | # although they were living in dens like wild boars just 1700 years ago Lie. Well, the Slavs really were. “Not that there’s anything wrong with that!” So would you care to explain who those blue and green eyed Indians are with pale skin and where they came from? Care to explain why whiteness is adored by so many Indians? Durr! Unfortunately the entrance of such genes to the Indian subcontinent predates the population movements associated with the Indo-Aryans. And there really isn’t any paleness like ours, just paleness relative to the darker pre-Dravidian genetics of the populace. Like it or not, India was “civilized” when the Aryans arrived with their wagons — meaning the Dravidians lived in walled cities, had some basic hygiene, religion & ceremony, etc. And along with civilization went caste, which wasn’t an Aryan invention; it was rather the Aryans who accommodated themselves to it. So it is quite wrong to imagine the Aryans were anything but barbarians entering a cultural area at much the same level of achievement as the Babylonian cultures. The thing is, barbarism isn’t always bad. 129
Posted by Darren on April 28, 2009, 02:28 PM | #
Err, no they weren’t.
Err, what? Those genes are associated with Caucasoid - not any other race.
Right, like I’m going to believe that whopper. 130
Posted by GR on April 28, 2009, 03:24 PM | # Right, like I’m going to believe that whopper. It isn’t a matter requiring your belief, rather suspension of your present belief that the Indo-Aryans “set up the caste system”, or however you might put it. All you need do is read any book out of hundreds on caste and I’m confident you’ll come away seeing the crudeness of that present belief. Is it really so hard to believe that a civilization would develop hereditary guilds and classes into which a smaller group of invaders would introduce their own social division, albeit one which looms larger in the literature than the vastly more numerous, though socially less important positions? Err, what? Those genes are associated with Caucasoid - not any other race. Yea, Dravidians are Caucasoid. Everything you find repugnant about Indians comes from the earlier races with whom the Dravidians mixed; and the beautiful Bollywood goddesses with their green eyes and raven hair are obviously closer to the more ancient and widespread Mediterrean race than your idealized Aryans, whose genetic imprint didn’t get past Kalmykia in its spread to the Iranian plateau and the subcontinent to any appreciable degree. You’ll just have to accept that Caucasoid doesn’t neatly reduce to whatever kind of human you fetishize but includes other races who were out & about the Eurasian continent long before the Aryan tribesmen. Err, no they weren’t. In fact some proto-Slavs did live in “dens”: “Early Slavic history in eastern Europe, including the Upper Tisza Region, can be divided into two periods: the Early Slavic Period (second half of the fifth to the seventh century CE), and the Old Slavic Period (eighth and ninth centuries CE). Settlements in the Upper Tisza Region from the Early Slavic Period have as yet been insufficiently studied. The settlement patterns are assumed to be of the “open” variety, that is, falling along river valleys in which the dwellings were grouped together in “nest-like” communities (the Tur, Tisza/Tysa, Latorytsia, Uzh river valleys) or spread out as individual dwelling units (the Laborec, Ondava, Topl’a, Olsava, Torysa river valleys). There were also protected hill forts at Solotvyno, Mala Kopania, Vary, Zemplin, Mukachevo, Uzhhorod, and Sarisske Sokolovce (see Map 1). The dwellings themselves were either partially underground dugouts (8-12 sq. meters) or above-ground log-frame structures (15-20 sq. meters). They were heated with clay or, in a few cases, with stone stoves. Burial practices from the Early Slavic Period were characterized by cremation, after which the ashes were deposited in urns buried in graves or left at the place of cremation. Grave mounds (kurgans) were also known among these early Slavic settlers, the most famous of which is near the village of Cherven’ovo west of Mukachevo in Subcarpathian Rus’. Between 5 and 9 meters of earth were placed above the bodies. The material remains of the inhabitants were quite modest and included Prague-type pottery, frying pans, dishes, and distaffs.” And some of these dwellings have been preserved; you can find them along the banks of the Dnipro and follow them up to the Samara, the same area inhabited by their Proto-Aryan ancestors. There is no shame in that, is my point. We are talking about primitive people. Kumar’s barb relies on a moral interpretation of their primitive estate as inferior to the relative luxury enjoyed by the city-dwellers of the older Dravidian culture of “Pakindia”. 131
Posted by Istvan on April 28, 2009, 06:18 PM | # VIXFLIX - the colonial era British who came to the US were by and large settlers, not criminals. Get your facts correct. It seems many people are missing the main point - that there is a distribution of IQs among groups and thus the average does not apply to each and every individual. From my personal observations through out college, graduate school and work it seems obvious that generalizations can be made. Whites, Indians, Jews and Orientals are brighter and harder working than blacks and non-white Hispanics. Hispanics are an interesting group to observe because they are more of a cultural grouping than a racial or ethinic grouping. Hispanics of European decent, in my experience, are brighter than non-white Hispanics. It would be interesting to see a statistical break down of Hispanics by actual racial/ethnic group and the IQs, crime rates and illegitimatacy rates associated with those ethinic groups. Remember, there are blacks, whites, chinese, amerinds and mixed race people all lumped together under the Hispanic label. I think the main issue, however, should not be who is smarter but the survival of our people (Europeans). We are entitled to Europe as the indigineous people of Europe. And quite frankly we are entitled to those countries our people built such as the US, Canada and Australia. I do not want China, or India or Africa for my people and the Latin Americans, Chinese, Indians and Africans should not expect to take our lands. We can trade, share technology and get along while living in our own homelands with our own languages and cultures. 132
Posted by grey on April 30, 2009, 11:48 AM | # Basing anything about ancient civilizations is dubious at best. What if the Harappan site was never found? There are lots of archaeological sites still buried around the world. There are still many human remains around the world which remain uncovered. 133
Posted by Ravan on April 30, 2009, 11:51 AM | # The IQ research is not bullshit. They are based on facts. Deal with it. 134
Posted by Ravan on April 30, 2009, 11:59 AM | # Circuit, It shows how IQ studies successfully predicted how each ethnic group would perform in a police test. The academic left will obviously oppose any study which rightfully shows differences between human groups. Your point is pointless. THE SPLC is a marxist organisation. If these studies would have shown that you curry monkeys perform well, you would not have questioned their validity. You are pissed because you curry monkeys do not measure up to some races especially East Asians. 135
Posted by Foony on April 30, 2009, 12:05 PM | # ethanallen, You claim East Asians have no good computer programmers. then explain this In 2005, Shanghai Jiao Tong University became world champions 136
Posted by Art on April 30, 2009, 07:30 PM | # For all those who question the validity of Wealth and IQ of Nations; “Lynn has shown that IQ results correlate with various international student assessments in the range of .81-.89. Well, Rindermann’s aggregation of those assessments correlates with IQ scores at exactly the middle of that range. Rindermann also presents his estimates with adjustments (five points subtracted from L&V;estimates for countries without any actual data, age and participation rate adjustments for international student assessments). For the same 74 countries where assessment results are available, the correlation with L&V;is a marginally stronger .86.” .86 is a powerful correlation. If anyone has the time later today you can look through PISA statistics online. Notice that they tend to decline as we move into the middle east. In fact Turkey has lower scores then Russia, despite the fact that the average life expectancy for ethnic Russians is somewhere in the fifties-lower by ten years in relation to Turkey. “IQ and the Wealth of Nations’ was not peer-reviewed before publication but was published by a publisher of academic literature. Peer reviewed articles have used the IQ scores presented in the book and some have also commented on the claims in the book.” Part of the reason why he got the grants from the Pioneer Fund instead of elsewhere is simply because no one would ever allow such information to leak out. PC fear-mongers have created an awful situation by 1. Not being honest about what we already knew about race 2. Further suppressing new research into race. 3 Trying to destroy White demographic hegemony. 137
Posted by Art on April 30, 2009, 07:42 PM | # Furthermore Bamshad’s team found that Y chromosomes from the Brahmin and Kshatriya closely resembled European Y chromosomes rather than Asian Y chromosomes. The Y chromosomes from the lower castes bore more similarities to the Asian Y chromosome. The mitochondrial DNA showed the same pattern. The authors believe their results support the notion that Europeans who migrated into India between 3,000 and 8,000 years ago may have merged with or imposed their social structure on the native northern Indians and placed themselves into the highest castes. Analysis of the paternally transmitted Y chromosome among Indians in general indicated that the Y chromosome had a more European flavor. Maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA among Indians is more Asian than European. This suggests that the Europeans who entered India were predominantly male. Geneticist Lynn Jorde of the University of Utah said that there was a group of males with European affinities who were largely responsible for this invasion 3,000 or 4,000 years ago. If the women were with the invaders, he said, the evidence should be seen in the mitochondria genes, but it is not evident. The invaders apparently shoved the local men aside, took their women and set up the rigid caste system that exists today in India. Their descendants are still the elite within Hindu society. Large numbers of Indians have the same Y-chromosomes of the East Europeans closely related to today’s Slavs.
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Posted by Ravan on May 01, 2009, 06:00 PM | # Art, I think Mexico/ Brazil and India have some parallels in race formation. In Mexico, Whites (mostly Spaniards) married Native American (and in some cases black) women to create a mestizo nation. The elite (about 12 %) are a mix of White and Native too but are Whiter and smarter. Here too just like the Aryans of India, a handful of Spanish Conquistador conquered an earlier civilization like the Aztecs and created a new civilization based on both the old and new. Something of the sort must have happened in India. I would say these elites are the Brahmins and Kshatriyas of Mexico. In Brazil too you see the White elite on top, with mixed masses in between and blacks at the bottom. The White elites are the Brahmins and Kshatriyas of Brazil, the brown masses are the middle castes while the Blacks are the Shudras of Brazil. What happened in Latin America 400 years ago, happened in South Asia 4000 years ago. 139
Posted by Circuit on May 04, 2009, 06:31 AM | # IQ test can easily be manipulated and the sample of population selected to conduct the test is not representative of the whole population. There are several European countries which are poor like Hungary and Romania, and China is a picture of gross poverty and lowest wages in the world. Instead on relying on average IQ of a country which is unreliable it is much better to test individuals. Average IQ of many white countries are high but still millions of people lives on crumbs(dole) provided by state, 36 millions on food assistance in the US alone, the child poverty is the worst in UK, 90% of whites retire poor, due to poor financial planning, high IQ does no t translate into High wealth. The socio economic structure, political stability, transparency, accountability, work culture, and general attitude of people to reward achievers in the society can lead to more wealth. Person could be of high IQ but what if he or she does not want to put effort to go for higher education or hard work, instead have a laidback attitude and spend more time in leisure activties and shuns investment in stocks and real estate. The Richard lynn and Rushton’s data are dubious without any credibility and authenticity and based on observation, manipulation of data and assumptions without any real solid state research, thats why it is written off and not taken seriously by any corporations, governments or universities. Immigration from India to the western world is at record levels as India is becoming more prosperous growing at 7 to 8 % GDP per annum since last two decades and more people can afford to study overseas. It is Indian education system and their fluency in English language which is giving India more leverage than Chinese or Japanese to be more successful in the west, all you need is a attitude to succeed. And all IQ types have jobs and role to play, if not NASA, Dell or Microsoft there are several garage startups and venture capitalists to begin with. 140
Posted by Jeff on May 04, 2009, 02:10 PM | # Peopling of the World: Peopling of Inida: 141
Posted by Jeff on May 13, 2009, 01:00 PM | # After reading these materials, it seems to me that the caste system is very possible not introduced by the Aryan people, instead of, it is much more possible by Dravidian people. 142
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 06:19 PM | # Posted by John Ray on January 02, 2005: Fiji would be interesting as they are quite prosperous there 5 COUPS & now a dictatorial military ‘government’! FIJI now has a VERY LOW IQ. All the educated skilled Indians have LEFT this pathetic little former paradise. 143
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 06:26 PM | # Posted by Circuit on April 23, 2009: Gooks are so dumb they have not invented anything worth while so far they only copy western technology and masters in pirated software and DVDs and use their ugly looking primitive people to manufacture kitchen knives and toilet paper for advanced countries on paltry wages of less than $2, the [removed] shoes and Addidas T-shirts AmericanS wears are made in Indonesia for nothing, using slave labour. So True… A recent piece by John Derbyshire, very much worth reading in its own right, contained a link to a brutal depreciation of the Asian intellect by one Satoshi Kanazawa, professor at the London School of Economics. a brutal depreciation of the Asian intellect by one Satoshi Kanazawa: http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep04120128.pdf
Can Asians Think? By Ian Jobling 3/24/09 A recent piece by John Derbyshire, very much worth reading in its own right, contained a link to a brutal depreciation of the Asian intellect by one Satoshi Kanazawa, professor at the London School of Economics. Prof. Kanazawa has plainly had it up to here with Asians and puts the smackdown on white multiculturalists who gain virtue points by talking up Asian superiority. The article begins with a section pleasingly entitled “Asians Can’t Think” that documents their pronounced inferiority to white people in creativity. (I’ve also written about Asians’ creativity deficit.) Intelligent Asians are great at making “making the robot dog Aibo look and behave even more like a real dog,” but they’re very bad at formulating the radically new concepts that make for major scientific innovations. Asians are so conformist that they have a hard time grasping the Western concept of original work. At LSE, we have an enormous problem of plagiarism among our Asian students. Despite the fact that each student, Asian or otherwise, must sign a declaration that their work is original and they have not plagiarized, many Asian students simply copy the work of established scholars. To them it is a venerable act of honoring their masters to “borrow” from them, by copying their words verbatim. No matter how much we tell them that it is wrong, Asian students simply cannot understand why it is wrong to honor their intellectual masters by faithfully reproducing their work. Needless to say, this is no recipe for scientific progress. Kanazawa treats us to an insider’s lowdown on Chinese university students: The communist government of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) has a policy of not letting their brightest students leave the country for fear of the brain drain and of forcing them to study home at Chinese universities. Then it sends the second-rate students to American universities and the third-rate students to British universities, both with falsified transcripts and exam results to make them look first-rate. Here at LSE where I teach, we receive a large number of these third-rate Chinese students dressed up as first-rate. (About 5-10% of all undergraduate and graduate students at LSE are from PRC.) Virtually every Chinese applicant to LSE boasts “the highest exam scores in their province.” Apparently it has not occurred to the LSE admissions office that there could not possibly be that many provinces in China. Naturally, most of these PRC students do very poorly and fail out of the program, and, when they do, many confess to having purchased or otherwise fabricated their exam scores and transcripts before they applied for LSE. This article made my day, and I’m hoping it might make yours, too. http://whiteamerica.us/index.php/blog/blog/can_asians_think/ What is the West? http://whiteamerica.us/index.php/Articles/Articles/what_is_the_west_part_ii/ 144
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 06:31 PM | #
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Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 06:35 PM | #
So True Circuit… The YELLOW PERIL: Australia muscling up as America’s power wanes http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3642.0 ANTI-CHINESE TENSIONS ON THE RISE IN AUSTRALIA http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3658.0 http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?board=1.80 146
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 06:58 PM | # Barely perceptible on the horizon is an enigmatic, tough, well-armed warrior. He peers at America through slanted dark eyes set between high cheekbones. He understands parasites. He understands our pathology. He envies our long-limbed White women and our lebensraum. Almost imperceptibly he smiles. THE CHINESE EXCLUSION CASE, 130 U. S. 581 (1889): http://supreme.justia.com/us/130/581/case.html INVADING PLUNDERERS: ENVYING WHITE LEBENSRAUM AND LONG-LIMBED WHITE WOMEN: http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3050.0 EMINENT DOMAIN: THE CHINESE ARE AFTER YOUR LAND: http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3057.0 http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3050.0 147
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 07:03 PM | #
Wikipedia Is JUNK: http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php?topic=3724.0 Wikipedia’s guiding principle is agreement rather than truth, says Oliver Kamm Knowledge by consensus is Wikipedia’s downfall By Oliver Kamm FIRST POSTED APRIL 1, 2009 http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/46900,opinion,knowledge-by-consensus-wikipedia-jimmy-wales In conception and characteristics, Wikipedia is distinctively a creature of the internet: vast, sprawling and of dramatically variable quality. It is also, by design, an anti-intellectual project. Wikipedia recognises no intrinsic value in competence or knowledge; its guiding principle is agreement rather than truth. Intellectual inquiry involves testing ideas against the canons of evidence. Wikipedia’s ‘community’ offers members a different route to recognition - one shorn of the burden of earning it. Scientific method is integral to Western civilisation. The invention of the printing press in the fifteenth century allowed the rapid dissemination of ideas, and knowledge began to spread with particular force some three centuries ago with the Scientific Revolution, whose foundations lay in the work of thinkers of classical Greece. In principle, the advent of the web and the planned accumulation of knowledge in an online reference source ought to be a still more powerful means of spreading enlightenment. Wikipedia has no means of arbitrating between claims other than popularity But Wikipedia does not work like that. The project’s advocates imagine that the problem, if they recognise one at all, lies in the variable quality of Wikipedia’s individual entries. The solution is obvious: a process in which editors work on the less successful entries and remove the obviously unmerited ones. In reality, the problem is much more fundamental to Wikipedia than that much of its content is a pile of dross. Whereas science and learning pursue truth, Wikipedia prizes consensus. Wikipedia has no means of arbitrating between different claims, other than how many people side with one position rather than another. That ethos is fatal to the advancement of learning. Ideas are refined by being tested; scientific method presupposes scrutiny, experiment and conflict. Andrew Lih’s hagiography of the venture - The Wikipedia Revolution: How a Bunch of Nobodies Created the World’s Greatest Encyclopedia (Aurum Press, £14.99) - is succinct and consistent. From its vainglorious and bathetic subtitle onwards, it is a remorselessly superficial and unreflective book. Long on wide-eyed enthusiasm for technological detail, it is alarmingly short on learning. Respect is never an entitlement in a culture of learning, it must be earned Paradoxically, the most useful part of the book is the unintended candour of Wikipedia’s founder, Jimmy Wales, in envisaging that the venture will be founded on “love and respect”. Again, the point is not to contrast Wales’s hopes with the virulent abuse that characterises much of Wikipedia’s deliberations. It is rather that love and respect are irrelevant to the advancement of knowledge. In a culture that prizes discovery and education, respect is never an entitlement. It is earned, and then still contingent, to the extent that ideas prove their resilience against attacks. Wikipedia does not adhere to those standards of intellectual inquiry. The most disturbing aspect of Lih’s encomium is his treatment of the human side of Wikipedia - what he excruciatingly terms the community. His description of Wales as “like a prophet visiting his flock” is a more revealing simile than he realises. His account of the way in which the self-designated Wikipedians meet bears the hallmarks of a cult. And that strictly is what Wikipedia represents. It is not part of a democratic culture so much as a populist one: a combination of the anti-intellectualism of the Left and the free-market dogmatism of the Right. Lih refers to - he can hardly avoid mentioning - the scandal in which a prominent member of the Wikipedia “community” and of its arbitration committee turned out to be not, as the man had claimed, a tenured professor of religion but a 24-year-old college drop-out called Ryan Jordan. Wales’s handling of the episode - he initially stated that Jordan had “been thoughtful and contrite about the entire matter, and I consider it settled” - demonstrated that a false claim to knowledge was an unexceptionable part of Wikipedia’s culture. Lih’s defence of Wales is - and the feebleness ought to make both men blush - that Wales was “likely working off imperfect information”. As is characteristic of Wikipedia’s devotees, Lih is fond of setting up straw men: of maintaining that Wikipedia, if it did not work, would produce “nothing but a pile of incomprehensible junk”. Wikipedia is indeed comprehensible, and some of its articles effectively mimic the language of scholarly reference. The venture is junk, nonetheless. Wikipedia occupies a prominent part of the Web; the rough beast’s hour has come round at last. But there is no reason to accept or value it, still less use it for its intended purpose. 148
Posted by BATTAILE ('BATTLE') on May 13, 2009, 08:00 PM | #
Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist: http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/AEIPBook.htm http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/einstein.htm Albert Einstein, Plagiarist of the Century. by Richard Moody, Jr Extracted from Nexus Magazine Volume 11, Number 1 (December 2003-January 2004) from NexusMagazine Website 149
Posted by jeff on May 14, 2009, 12:13 AM | # Well, from the peopling of world, the East Asia (at least Southern Chinese) should have ausroloid and negroid genes. Do they really have IQ higher than White? 150
Posted by txue123 on May 17, 2009, 12:47 AM | # Japanese is more than half australoid/Negroid. First, east asian are quite different genetically. Second, if Japanese has the highest avg IQ even if it is majoritely australoid/negroid. we can fairly say that IQ is not determined by genes but by other factors. 151
Posted by AnilGupta on May 19, 2009, 04:51 PM | # Aryan did not invade India, instead Aryan invaded Europe from India. Aryan were just as paleness as modern India Brahmin instead as paleness as European Whites. The yellowish R1b people invaded European and got the white women and so they become white, but their Gene is still R1b. The white are not much to proud of except providing their beautiful woman for the India Aryan. 152
Posted by Trainspotter on May 19, 2009, 05:30 PM | #
(anilgupta) LOL! What a hurtful thing to say, Gunga. I’m amazed you find the time for such vitriol, what with all of your peoples accomplishments. Shouldn’t you be out throwing helpless widows onto funeral pyres? Oh, wait, the European stopped you from engaging in that and many other barbaric practices. Bummer, I know. But have no fear, there are Indian practices that European man was not able to squelch entirely. For example, you still have that old Calcutta standby - defecating in the middle of the street. Reach for the sky, dude. 153
Posted by q on May 19, 2009, 06:19 PM | # Those high IQ Indians have a corner on the Begging profession. Need I elaborate? 154
Posted by Jeff on May 20, 2009, 12:43 PM | # AnilGupta: Your intepretion is wrong. IJK are quite paleness people, those NOP people became yellowish due to their mixture with Australoid and Negroid people, the haplogroup C and D people, which are quite different from IJK people. European are most of IJK people only. 155
Posted by Indian Genius on June 11, 2009, 11:49 AM | # Josh is a white nationalist imbecile. Indians are one of the smartest peoples on the face of this earth. I find however the darker indians to be very intelligent. The white ones from north india are very idiotic and have the “white devil” gene. And how does a low IQ make one “eliminated” from society? They’re millions of humans with low iq’s who are finanically stable. And please don’t compare chinese to indians. We are a totally different people. We may come from the same “continent”, but no way we are the same! - Chinese people eat everything like the white man(dogs,cats,pigs,etc..) * Indians are respectable people and love all animals litterally - Chinese are yellow skinnned people * Indians are dark skinned beautiful creatures - Chinese have a barbaric mentality like white man and love to conquer and kill innocent people. 156
Posted by Gudmund on June 11, 2009, 12:24 PM | # Your country is poor, polluted and has an average IQ of 82. Go troll elsewhere please. 157
Posted by Jupiter on June 11, 2009, 01:59 PM | # Indian Genius Be a genius in India. In the meantime, I want the predatory hindus and sihks out of America. We did quite well when they weren’t here. 158
Posted by Circuit on June 13, 2009, 08:43 AM | # East or west India is the Best, now just die in jealousy!! 159
Posted by Jupiter on June 13, 2009, 10:41 AM | # Kick out all the predatory hindus and sihks back to the septic tank called India. Paki scum also. If they do not leave OUR AMERICA voluntarily..the issue will eventually be settled in a race war within the borders of OUR AMERICA. The hindus siks,pakis,koreans and chinese in OUR AMERICA are predatory scum!!!! More and more NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICANS are waking up to this obviouos fact. I see the transformation all the time. 160
Posted by Zemzelett on June 14, 2009, 07:50 PM | # Well, I remember that there is a way of extrapolating the ‘smart fraction’ of a population from it’s avg. IQ. I dont remember how it works, mathematically, but it assumes a gaussian distribution and thus it might be impaired by the fact that the Indian population is highly stratified and presents various sub-clusters, but in any case, it should be possible to calculate the smart fraction - if we assume, for example, a ‘smart fraction’ (IQ>125) of just 0,2 percent (which was, according to that page, and I dont agree with it, the smart fraction of the Congo), a population of 1.1 billion would still get us 2.2 million people with an IQ of 125 and above. And we can assume (based on Lynn&Vanhanen;‘s average IQ data, upon which this very discussion seems to be founded) a much larger smart fraction for the Indian population. The total number of people with an IQ of 125 and above, and this might astonish, could very well be larger than the entire population of several caucasian-only nations take together! This means there is ample supply of bright individuals to win math olympics, harvest Nobel prizes and get the first man to Jupiter, while the majority of the population might still live in poverty. Especially in the case of geographically stratified populations, there might be local high-IQ environments where science and technology can flourish, lessening the depression of individual ability that results when a high-IQ individual is in a low-IQ surrounding. This obviously means that the absolute number of bright people determines the absolute output of nobel prizes, GDP, inventions, etc, while the relative number determines per capita output. The relative number is determined by the population’s average IQ, while the absolute number must of course take the population size into account. Geographically stratified clusters can be treated as individual economies and national populations in this respect. Moreover, there are convincing theories of multiple intelligences (despite the ‘g’ correlate), which could explain why Indians score highly regarding mathematics, but may present themselves with a lower avg. IQ nonetheless. 161
Posted by Zemzelett on June 14, 2009, 08:06 PM | # Wether IQ is genetic or cultural is an entirely different topic, and I have heard convincing theories for both positions (with Hart at one extreme and the late Gould at the other), but generally a heritability of about .85 seems to be consistent throughout research results. Now, I supposed the heritability actually concerns the potential IQ - deficits in nutrition or sunlight or exposure to harmful chemicals (such as the famous results of elevated blood lead levels in black children in the US, though why specifically blacks are affected I dont know) might very well explain IQ depression, as do deviations from the brain’s optimal working temperature, which happens to be found in colder climates, such as Europe. Moreover, and that is just my personal opinion, I do believe there exist culturally distinct ways of thinking which explain differences in measured IQ to some degree - if one takes for example the recently presented correlation of alphabetical script use to the gene frequency of ASPM in a population vis-a-vis the DAB1 frequency correlated to the use of tonal language, one could come to the conclusion that the export and domination of the Chinese ‘cultural model’ of tonal language and logographic writing to the western world at any date in history would have led to a serious impairment of the IQ measured in caucasian populations, as the different genetic makeup of the brain would have presented itself as an inability of the caucasian to work with this kind of language and writing equally effective as the Chinese can. 162
Posted by TripleGold on June 16, 2009, 11:39 PM | # Zemzelett, “..., which could explain why Indians score highly regarding mathematics,...” No Indians as a group DO NOT score highly in mathematics.
163
Posted by Ben Park on June 19, 2009, 02:30 PM | # I am a Korean. I have visited India. What I saw in India convinced me that Indian’s IQ is around 82. 164
Posted by Murali Prasad on June 28, 2009, 05:09 AM | # The so called ‘Indian Genius’ (More like Indian nutcase) is an Indian supremist imbecile. Indians are one of the most primitive idiotic people on the face of the earth. I find all Indians to be idiotic. The have the ‘Australoid’ monkey gene. Actually they are a mix of Caucasoids, Mongoloids, niggers, australoids, monkeys, apes, pigs etc… And please do not compare Chinese with Indian scum. They are totally different people. They inhabit the same continent but no way are the same. 165
Posted by TripleGold on June 28, 2009, 09:36 PM | # Not only is that in general Indians are bad at math, Indians are bad at programming too. Check this out: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=development&articleId=9134122&taxonomyId=11&intsrc=kc_top Note that there is no finalist from India, the self proclaimed IT superpower. 166
Posted by Billiboard on July 02, 2009, 09:22 PM | # Do Bradmin really have so high IQ as some bloggers here claimed? are they really so excellent at Math? Is India really an IT superpower? 167
Posted by Chingla on July 11, 2009, 10:56 PM | # Chinese are low life monkeys similar to orangutans, they deserved to be desexed, in order to prevent the world from ugliness and retardation. CCP is doing a good job by restricting them to produce only 1 child in the third world China, now they are migrating to the west and breeding with dumb whites to produce retarded population. Its time west should do something about Chinese invasion. 168
Posted by Bigchink on July 12, 2009, 03:19 AM | # Some Indians with pea-size brain are really entertaining. Accept the truth that as a population, Indian is as intelligent as Mexican! Pleeeaaaase! Your bluff of brain-maniac Brahmin deceives nobody anymore. 169
Posted by TripleGold on July 12, 2009, 05:16 PM | # Please don’t insult the Mexicans! According to http://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx the p,erformance of Mexico is about the same or slightly worst than India. But then the population of India is ten times that of Mexico. This means that Mexicans are much much more intelligent than Indians. 170
Posted by desibandar on July 14, 2009, 01:02 PM | # Indians are a ugly semi primitive monkey race. The west should do something about these extremely ugly mutant people. They should all be forced to wear burquas (both men and women) so that other civilised humans do not have to puke on seeing their ugliness. Bollywood should be banned as they give a very false idea about India with their European looking celebs. 99.999% of Indians look nothing like their Bollywood stars but look like pig monkey hybrids. 171
Posted by Wiseone on July 14, 2009, 05:00 PM | # You idiot Anil Gupta, The Aryans invaded India from Europe. In India they mixed with the earlier White-Austroloid/ Negroid hybrid Dravidians and Mongoloid-Australoid/Negroid hybrids like the Nagas. Why it is that Europe has so less variety in phenotype while Indians have such great variety. Indians are mixed breed thats why. Aryans like the Tocharians were blue eyed blond. Check the mummies in Central Asia. 172
Posted by Circuitbreaker on July 15, 2009, 06:45 AM | # Circuit, Richard Lynns data are not dubious but are based on solid studies and facts. For India, Lynn found 13 studies, from 1966 through 2000. They range from 78 to 88, with an average of 83. 173
Posted by jfz on July 19, 2009, 02:17 PM | # ” Even the Mongoloid Indians in North East Indian states of AP, Mizoram, Sikkim, Meghalaya are not found to be more intelligent or successful than other indians, though they look very similar to Chinese.” I find this funny because I do recall in visiting south-east India, how many Asiatic North East Indians populated the medical schools and were exploited by the Indian government of the south—obviously for their keener abilities. In regards to “IQ” and the quest for the measure of superiority as defined by contemporary standards, I would posit that we’re being led down the wrong path. If the stats are right, clearly IQ is NOT the perfect and objective measure of potential for prosperity. To prove this, one only needs to call into question the high IQ scores of the East Asians and compare them with their low GDP per capita. The whole IQ craze is a distraction and an opportunity for groups to prep and throw in their best contestants to “prove” their groups is the best; so you have all these Indians talking about their engineers but never discussing their impoverished masses. I think honesty and the quest for truth, as one poster suggested above, are the true hallmarks of group desirability. That’s only my opinion. People can fight over which group is better, but in the end it boils down to personal bias: if the tests don’t agree with their bias then the tests are wrong. So, to each his own test; and personally, my simple test is skin, hair, and eye color—the lighter the better. 174
Posted by jfz on July 19, 2009, 02:30 PM | # P.s. if any think there’s a disconnect between physical (pigmentation) and mental qualities (honesty) and thus disagreement in the statements I mentioned above, I would have you know that I hypothesize that the “it” factor gene that defines the white race lies very near to the genes for pigmentation so as to be nearly equally heritable. 175
Posted by Chingla on August 02, 2009, 10:56 PM | # East Asians are neither good looking nor intelligent, Skin colour is also not the indicator of wealth and intelligence, Indian and Asians are the richest in the US though Whites are in Majority. Millions of whites on dole and drugs and live in squalor and poverty in Europe and America, 593 million Chinese or 42% live on less than $2 a day, 37 million Chinese defecate in open, 15.5 million Chinese represents the largest prison population in the world, 300 million Chinese are too poor and starving. IQ and wealth are too different things, Whites accumulated wealth not due to intelligence but by force invasion and genocide of humanity. Wealth is good but not the ultimate truth, Human Kind need happiness and good social life. Humans are basically designed to live and procreate, just like other animals, accumulating wealth is not the goal of human life, most of the wealth is left behind after you die, learn to have enough to survive. 176
Posted by Lurker on August 03, 2009, 08:12 AM | #
Fascinating. But then who are all these, that, for want of a better word I will call “people”, I see everyday? What with humanity being genocided and all. 177
Posted by Frank on August 04, 2009, 04:59 AM | # Chingla, China built one of the great civilisations; they’re without question a great race with a powerful future. One of the most dangerous sentiments Europeans can suffer is arrogance. Another facet: European pride surely comes from more than merely being “superior” in intelligence… Europeans should be proud of being European, not for being “superior” or for a vanishing power they once had. Few things I abhor more than Americans who love their country for the power of its empire and Europeans who only love their people because of supposed “superiority”. You love your people for what they are, not for a power trip. These same people too often have no qualms about potential genetic engineering. They don’t mind destroying the white race if they can tamper with it and make it even more “superior”. Real white nationalists love whites for what they are, not for being “superior”. 178
Posted by Frank on August 04, 2009, 05:22 AM | # “The Indians are as talkative as the Chinese and Japanese are reserved.” Blacks too are talkative… Indians are very sociable, and not shy. It could be argued a white or East Asian who is shy isn’t reaching his potential in a fierce society (maybe…), but Indians have no problem there. And they talk about mundane, everyday things that others talk about - never anything interesting (and difficult). They look black and largely are black. 179
Posted by Frank on August 04, 2009, 05:36 AM | # I met a few very intelligent Indians at my university - actually I was best friends with these - but all in all most didn’t impress me even there, and especially not the ones I’ve met outside. I’ll say one thing though: the SATS and intelligence tests can be impacted if someone has specially prepared for them. The Northeast often does exceptionally well on its SATs, and the Southest often does exceptionally poorly. Even when removing the black element, this remains. Mental ability isn’t enough: if you haven’t been given the material or haven’t learned as well how to take one of these tests, you won’t do as well. I used to go around telling people I got in school for affirmative action because the SAT from my home state was so low, though my score was actually pretty good so this was only a joke. But I knew people, even relatives, whom I considered intelligent but who didn’t score well. In part I’ll add to the weaker preparation that they didn’t try. In part this was because they didn’t care, and in part this was because they didn’t believe in themselves. It takes a certain type-A personality to compete at such things, and the South’s pop culture is very athletic and party oriented - not academic. So, those factors could be applied to other groups like Indians imo; but if Indians truly want to be seen as intelligent, they need to prove themselves. The door can be left open for them, but only they can rise up to open it. 180
Posted by Frank on August 04, 2009, 05:49 AM | #
I’m curious whether the Harappan weren’t more closely related to Europeans than modern-day Indians. I live in America, and yet I’m not related to Amerindians. I better not give an example from Europe lest I be run out of even here for my racism, lol. 181
Posted by TripleGold on August 10, 2009, 06:51 PM | # “ Even the Mongoloid Indians in North East Indian states of AP, Mizoram, Sikkim, Meghalaya are not found to be more intelligent or successful than other indians, though they look very similar to Chinese.” I might be off topic here but those Mongoloid Indians in so called AP ARE Chinese. Check this out: http://www.gregoryclark.net/redif.html Even Indians themselves, whether they are Bollywood Indians or Slum Dog Indians, routinely refer to the people in AP Chinese. OK, not quite, they use the derogatory term for Chinese. But you get my point. 182
Posted by Tere gand me mera pair on August 16, 2009, 03:18 AM | # chingla, North East Asians are definitely far better looking and intelligent than the primitive caucasoid-australoid hybrids of South Asia and the primitive Mongoloid-Australoid hybrids of South East Asia. Are you telling me that these monkeys are better looking http://www.chennai.fm/online/images/gallery/sangamam/crowd-claps-chennai-sangamam.jpg than them? Are you nuts? This is how Chinese policewomen look like This is how the Indian police monkeywomen look like Chinese soldier http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Chinese_soldier_on_Tienanmen_Square.jpg Indian soldier Enough Said. 183
Posted by Tere gand me mera pair on August 16, 2009, 03:50 AM | # “Whites accumulated wealth not due to intelligence but by force invasion and genocide of humanity”
European and American inventions (antibiotics, open heart surgery, MRI scanners to name a tiny few) have saved the lives of millions of non-Whites. Ayurveda and Chinese medicine (and definitely not Sangoma) do not even close to modern western medicine. The computer chingla the nutcase is typing on was invented by Whites. Maybe he should go back to wearing dhoti (a ridiculous attire used by a stupid people who had not figured out sewing yet), driving his bullock cart (no cars and tractors-invented by evil Whitey) from your stinky backward Indian village to your field where he would shit in the open (no lavatories or washbasins - invented by evil Whitey). When he would suffer from some water borne disease (very likely due to the lack of hygiene and dirty habits in Indian villages even today) or say malaria he would go to the nearby ‘baba’ (holy man) who would remove demons from his body or a local vaid who would give him a snake oil concoction which is probably more harmful than the original disease. As there was no rule of law, the local Raja or sultan would come down and beat him up for fun, rape his wife and daughter and steal his cattle. This is the kind of shit life that monkey Chingla should live. Hahaha They had taste for the fine things in life - for beautifully designed artifacts and the enjoyment and appreciation of cultural activities They introduced many changes to Indian society and culture, including: Centralised government which brought together many smaller kingdoms India did not have these before. Babur also writes Haha what primitive dirty people M.K. Gandhi writes about Indian villages Even after 100 years India is still a stinky shithole. Even the Mahatma failed in cleaning India. LOL. 184
Posted by Bharatiyonka lund chota on August 16, 2009, 04:43 AM | # Check this out Weak pussy Indian soldiers looking like fools infront of the manly Chinese soldiers. The desi monkeys got owned. LOL. Check this out too. 185
Posted by TripleGold on August 16, 2009, 01:03 PM | # “ Even the Mongoloid Indians in North East Indian states of AP, Mizoram, Sikkim, Meghalaya are not found to be more intelligent or successful than other indians, though they look very similar to Chinese.” OK I am off topic here again. But since Sikkim is mentioned here, some background information is needed. First the Sikkimese are Mongoloids. Ethnically and culturally they are Tibetan and lamanist Buddhists. Historically they have very close ties with Tibet and have nothing to do with the Hindu people. It was never a part of any Hindu kingdom or princely states. Today it is an Indian state. Why? Check this out: 186
Posted by TripleGold on August 16, 2009, 01:10 PM | # “ Even the Mongoloid Indians in North East Indian states of AP, Mizoram, Sikkim, Meghalaya are not found to be more intelligent or successful than other indians, though they look very similar to Chinese.” OK I am off topic here again. But since Sikkim is mentioned here, some background information is needed. First the Sikkimese are Mongoloids. Ethnically and culturally they are Tibetans and Lamanist Buddhists. Historically they have very close ties with Tibet and have nothing to do with the Hindu people. It was never a part of any Hindu kingdom or princely states. Even during the times of British India, Britain leave it alone and Sikkim remains an independent kingdom. Today it is an Indian state. Why? Check this out: 187
Posted by Mark Ijsseldijk on August 16, 2009, 01:51 PM | #
They were probably a group of Indo-Uralics, and hence Aryan, like those who founded Sumer. No book will tell you so - they’re convinced that it was proto-Dravidian. HA! Those primitives? Not on your life. 188
Posted by Bharatiyonka lund chota on August 20, 2009, 10:54 AM | # Haha, Even the Indian Navy chief believes that India is not a match for China. 189
Posted by Bharatiyonka lund chota on August 22, 2009, 11:38 PM | # Yes right TripleGold, India complains about the British Raj but they ignore their own brutality and colonialism in Sikkim, North East India, Ladakh and Kashmir. Same with the Chinese who complain about Japanese rule but ignore their own brutality in Tibet and other places. 190
Posted by TripleGold on August 23, 2009, 04:15 PM | # Hi Bharatiyonka lund chota, I am glad you bring up this subject. Although we are off topic but allow me to disgress here. What had happened to the Tibetans were seldom properly explained. So let me clear up some misunderstandings. When the Chinese Communist took over China, they immediately implemented a series of policies based on the Communist ideologies. For eg., confiscating lands from the landowners and redistributing them to the landless peasants. Nationalizing personal properties, banning private enterprises, starting farming communes…etc. But on top of that, the Chinese Communist also have a politcal theory that what is hampering the Chinese people to modernize is because the people are too ingrained in traditional culture. Hence in order to unshackle the people from the past, they suppress the traditional culture with a vengence. These include tearing down temples, banning traditional festivals, denouncing Confucius scholar, breaking anything of cultural value such as antiques, even at one time have a half-hearted attempt to abolish the Chinese written language and replaced it with an alphabetical system until it was deemed too impractical and gave up. But later on, what they did to the Han people (the dominant ethnic group) was also repeated to the Tibetan because Tibet was even more backward then the coastal provinces and hence also need ‘help’. Hence Tibetan youths that were radicalized by their Han counterparts were send back to Tibet to do the destruction. And so Tibetan monastaries were destroyed, Tibetan culture were suppressed…etc. This happens during the period of 1967 to 1977 in what the Chinese Communist called the Cultural Revolution. What is so dishonest about the Dalai Lama is that he paint this as the Han Chinese ethnically oppressing the Tibetans. He even invented actrocities in an attempt to garner more sympathies from the international communites. For eg. he accept the Nobel Peace prize on behalf of the 1.2 millions Tibetans killed by the Han Chinese. The only thing is that this allegations has been thoughtfully investigated by Western Tibetan scholar and rejected as groundless. It is even disputed by Western Tibetan activist - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/opinion/22french.html?_r=1 My point is that however dumb and horrible the Chinese Communist have done to the Tibetans, in their defence it was never motivated by ethnic hatred. For the simple reason that Chinese culture does not have the concept of ethnic hatred or ethnic oppression. In fact on the contrary it was motivated by an urge to help your fellow citizens - http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99feb/tibet.htm I would like to point out that this Maoist insanities are long history now and are recognised as a disaster. Average Tibetans, just like other Chinese, have seen their standard of living dramatically increased. On the other hand, I noticed that Indian people like to point out the plight of the Tibetans and contrast with their ‘vibrant and diverse democracy’ in an attempt to show their supposed moral superiority over the Chinese. This is hugely mistakened. Hindu culture IS based on hate, which is manifested by the Caste system. India has good economic growth for the past six or seven years and at one time there are more billionares in India than in China. But despite this new found wealth, chonic proverty still stubbornly persist. I suspect the reason is because of the ingrained altitude of the Indian people towards their less unfortuate fellow citizens (if indeed they consider the lower caste their fellow citizens). This altitude can be summed up as at best indifference, at worst outright contempt. For why do you want to help out to people you despise? The biggest mistake Britain did to India is not to colonize India but to create India. India is a bully both to its own people and to its neighbor. I have noticed that the Indian chattering class like to compare them with the Chinese. I can only say this: Until and unless the Indian people fundamentally change their disgusted culture, Indian can never measured up to the Chinese. 191
Posted by Frank on August 23, 2009, 06:29 PM | # There’s nothing inherently hateful in a caste system if it’s done within bounds. A caste system shouldn’t be blurred into the extremes of wealth we have today. If the Chinese truly wished to help their fellow man, they’d simply free Tibet and the other nonHan Chinese provinces, allowing each to form a nation-state. 192
Posted by Frank on August 23, 2009, 06:33 PM | # “For the simple reason that Chinese culture does not have the concept of ethnic hatred or ethnic oppression. In fact on the contrary it was motivated by an urge to help your fellow citizens” Sounds like the beginning of a liberalism. So, in 20 years we should expect reverse colonization and neutered Chinese males in the image of today’s neutered descendants of the British and American empires? All roads shouldn’t lead to Rome… Such a shame to lose China to suicide like that. 193
Posted by Dev on August 31, 2009, 10:22 PM | # In my way nether climatic condition nor ethnicity & nor an inborn talent defines IQ of a person. IQ increases by experiences ,work through in different situations & overcome of it, utilizing your mind power in every circumstances. 1 word of 1000 words, if u want to increase your IQ then use your brain. Whereas in contrast between INDIA & CHINA, much of the Indian population is illiterate& poverty may be the another factor so they don’t get the chance to show their ability, their skills to the outer world they are just confined & solitude in an boundary, where in China their HRD condition is much better then India. So that is what the reason is. 194
Posted by Lurker on September 01, 2009, 12:00 AM | #
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Posted by Frank on September 01, 2009, 05:11 AM | # Dev writes:
That’s only one factor to consider. Another is nutrition. The genetic design of the brain is a third factor. And there are likely other factors… Three factors instead of one isn’t complicated. That one person enjoys photographic memory or can map out a 3d image in his brain or can hold more variables in his mind at once doesn’t make him more human than another… And those without such abilities can still seek out most of the same knowledge albeit slower.
- Thomas Alva Edison. If you want to learn something or pursue some goal, work at it. Those geniuses you see making breakthroughs are workaholics! 196
Posted by Dave on September 02, 2009, 05:01 AM | # I really don’t care if you think the average IQ of my country is better or worse, just get out. From Germany. We’ve been abused enough this last fucking century, I’m not going to sit and watch as we are genocided. All immigrants out of Europe now. 197
Posted by eli on September 02, 2009, 10:45 PM | # I have been reading the comments of this forum with enthusiam i happen to be fiji indian who has an iq equivalent to the jews which has been posted in this forum despite the fact some arsehole from india wrote lower caste people who migrated or whose ancestors were taken as slaves to fiji and other countries have lower iq’s. I have found some of the comments here to be utterly disgusting and racist with no lack of actual knowledge of ones history and culture. Now i am going to give my own opinion on this whole issue which may offend some people. The reason why white people from america and other countires who tend to be successful is cause they take risks and are not afraid to make mistakes and learn from them as well as confidence then apply it on practicial gorunds. Wherease chinese and people from india have this ability to cram the whole text book and end up scoring in their 90’s. For jews the reason why they are very successful is cause they come from a close knit community where their religion and culture revolves around work and striving for progress. When one of them ones to open a business the whole community donates money to them they tend to use both methods of europeans and asian. which is cramming and taking risks and learning from their mistakes. As for fiji indians whoever wrote we are prosperous cause we’re of indian origin is a load of crap it takes hard work and dedication if you are fully aware of the history of my ancetors which i take more pride then ethnicity and culture put together. Instead of making stupid assumptions that we’re smart and dumb because of that gene pool and this gets to show the low iq of you as an individual. If i would have to nominate who the most improved race are i’d have to say my native fijian brothers and sisters. Who not that long ago were cannibals but yet it took them less than a century to be civilised and are becoming one of the most successful lot recently taking up high paying jobs which usually go to asians and europeans in general. I see this whole iq debate hilarious i know people who have flunked at school but yet end up becoming successful in the future and there are those who tend to be smart academic wise but yet having mediocre jobs. Its a matter of influence and dedication from an individual which leads to being successful not race. I forgot to mention arrogance doesnt lead an individual anywhere it is respect and love 198
Posted by eli on September 02, 2009, 10:50 PM | # when i meant native fijians i meant to perceive it as a whole quantity and quality of individuals 199
Posted by Kumar on October 14, 2009, 02:04 AM | # I’m a U.S born and raised Indian, parents from Bangalore. 200
Posted by Gopal on October 16, 2009, 02:05 PM | # I stumbled across this site by looking for Terence Tao’s IQ score. He is such a genius (IQ above 220, youngest IMO winner, Fields Medal at the age of 31), yet so humble. Even in school, he was able to relate to other people and never believed himself to be better, but just different. ref: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10116.aspx “Unlike most profoundly gifted children, he seems to have no difficulty in relating to people of lesser ability (Hollingworth, 1942). He has no conception of himself as “better” than others, merely different. To Terry everyone is of value, everyone has something to contribute.” And here is this site full of people trying to demean each other, downplaying other country and races. Now, I realize how could a continent full of talented people like Newton, Mozart, Leonardo Da Vinci, go to the path of brutal colonization of other countries and eventually two world wars among themselves. “EGO” is the worst vice of humans and whether our IQ is below 80 or above 200, if we have very high level of “EGO” (whether in the garb of race, nation, language or individual success), we will lead a very suffocating life and bring miseries upon ourselves. The duty of people who are more powerful is to be more humble and more compassionate and not the otherwise. EGO brings a downfall sooner or later. Each country has its own merits and demerits. We all should try to help others without being pushy or egoistic. On this site, I read many stupid comments. There is no point in responding to them. Let all of us focus on improving the lot of whole humanity by embracing everyone as part of our kith and kin. Like Bhagawad Gita says, the whole world is the manifestation of one Consciousness and one who sees the same Self/Consciousness in everyone and act with love and compassion towards everyone, is a man of steady wisdom. Let us let go of our vanities and become such men of steady wisdom and make this earth better place for our children. Amen (Be it so)! Peace to all. 201
Posted by bill clinton on October 19, 2009, 12:37 PM | # Olympics 2000 Olympics 2004 Olympics 2008 Forget academics: what about sports. gold medals.s How many medals did China, India. Philippines, etc. win in 2000 2004 2008 google: olympics. The answer speak for themselves. what’s the truth. 202
Posted by barack obama on October 23, 2009, 01:11 PM | # google: british empire. UK empire: How did UK colonized all of india. King of UK was Emperor of India India independence movement. Was india Not independent in the first place. How come Gandhi had to walk around in a diaper to acquire independece from tiny UK. Answer: IQ of 81. Low 80s 203
Posted by viker on October 26, 2009, 02:36 AM | # Well to all the guys above…... 204
Posted by Reason on October 26, 2009, 07:31 PM | # I dont believe in IQ tests, my IQ test is 128, as I joined the High Iq Society with that score. But I don’t think thats got anything to do with intelligence. Thats because I like puzzles, chess and memory games. Im of Indian origin living in UK. I even read about high school exam results at some local school, where indians had top scores, then second was white, and then below that was bandladesh and pakistani. Now I dont think the score had anything to do with race, but upbringing by the parents, as indians like their kids to do well at school and higher education. IQ really has nothing to do with it. Also remember in western Europe and America, there are MUCH better facilities, plus you dont have to pay for education like india, and also you have light at night so you can read your books, unlike india, as there are lot of power cuts. Im sure if India had a better infrastructure like Europe, easily achieve same results as Europe if not better. Remember in india a child might have to work to earn money and also in their spare time try to study! Its basically poverty, which can affect IQ scores, not genes! 205
Posted by Jamaal on November 07, 2009, 07:06 PM | # It has been repeatedly proven that IQ is important in predicting the prosperity of nations and it is genetic. The environment has a small effect on IQ. 206
Posted by ZipperHead on November 14, 2009, 11:02 PM | # Humans doesn’t need IQ scores to prosper, nor achivements in sports, Human need Happiness and hapiness and feeling of wellbeing is relative, Human just like other animals is designed to live and procreate. People in Burma are found more happy than United states because they are less selfish, hedonistic, greedy and mad about material things, no amount of technology can substitute for mental health. 207
Posted by Aistulf on November 14, 2009, 11:13 PM | #
What the fuck are you yammering about, ‘tard? “Humans” aren’t humans. White people are humans, you are not. 208
Posted by Anonymous on November 16, 2009, 04:07 AM | # 209
Posted by Jamaal on November 16, 2009, 09:49 AM | # Hey zipperhead, Here is da list. Most happy people are Rich White people, you get it, now cry. 210
Posted by Pontiff on November 17, 2009, 02:19 AM | # Happiness Index Of Countries that Matters! USA – 7.4 points – 17th place 211
Posted by Pontiff on November 17, 2009, 02:54 AM | # This is America: one in 8 go hungryNovember 17, 2009 - 5:02PM The US Agriculture Department has released bleak figures on the state of hunger in the United States, showing that more American families are having difficulty feeding their members.
- as “unsettling”. “This trend was already painfully clear in many communities across our nation, where food stamp applications are surging and food pantry shelves are emptying,” Obama said.
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Posted by bada bad lingam on November 17, 2009, 12:41 PM | # Happiness Index Of Countries that Matters! Pontiff India does not matter. 213
Posted by kala ganda lund on November 17, 2009, 12:44 PM | # “How come Gandhi had to walk around in a diaper to acquire independece from tiny UK.” And BTW President Obongo, Gandhi had nothing to do with India’s independence. After fighting the Third Reich and the Imperial Japanese forces, Britain was too tired and uninterested in holding on to India. 214
Posted by Shiv on November 25, 2009, 07:04 PM | # FAIR USE QUOTE EXCERPTED FROM FORBES (emphasis supplied): “When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112 on a bell-shaped IQ distribution, with white Americans at 100. 112 is the 79th percentile of the white distribution. For more context, consider that Ashkenazi Jews are a famously intelligent ethnic group, and their mean IQ is somewhere around 110.” ********************************************************************************* ...........they scored as well as the Ashkenazi Jews - the smartest group, IQ-wise. In URBAN and EDUCATED India, scores like this are commonly possible. In RURAL and ILLITERATE parts, scores like 80-90 are likely common. In my school (a very elite one, though), scores of 120-136 were seen in IQ testing. In another study of middle-class Muslim kids, a score of around 101 was seen, though lower scores for the “inbred” Muslims of around 90 have also been seen. There are over 40,000 genetic pools in India, and therefore the scoring has wide variables.
(1) For the vast majority of work - an IQ score of 90-95 is quite enough, due to the simple or repetitive nature of the work. (2) Assuming that ~1% of India’s population represent the 112 mean IQ seen in American scoring, that would still be closer to 10-12 MILLION folk. They are the ones that would drive science, technology, economics, and industry. (3) Using the Bell Curve deviation from the mean, perhaps close to 50-60 million may have an IQ of 100+, competing with the average white man. They may form the bulk of the “middle class”. shaping trends and economics. All in all, decent in keeping a country advanced and developed to some degree. Obviously, the potential is heavily underused compared to the USA or Japan and to a degree even China due to the bulk being poor in scores, but you can’t write off a country with 10 MILLION + scoring as high as Ashkenazi Jews….the smartest group as an overall people. 215
Posted by V on December 11, 2009, 04:28 PM | # First let me tell you guys something well just bickering over IQ doesn’t take you anywhere near the solution.Well India is a diverse nation a nation full of people of different ethnicities,religions,tribes here the one thing that Indians excel at is backstabbing,conspiracies and such stuff.India happened to remain a colony for a great many years owing to Indians who wanted it to be colonized for their own gains(material).Every successful man in this world has cronies,blokes who go around kissing their ass during the good days only to kick them out of competition when times change.Successful Indians have too many of them.Indians are obsessed with these that’s what makes India unique.Indians are their worst enemies,Indians stand in the way of India’s prosperity.Ever been to the Indian parliament?Dunno now but even sometime back half the MP’s were school dropouts.Imagine being ruled by illiterate people.Indian penal code allows cases pertaining to politicians/elite to go on and on for decades.And Indian masses oblige accordingly.Every five years there’s a poll and the very same people who’ve been around for years come back to power to lead India on to another half decade of increasing poverty,lawlessness,corruption.And while the elite profit the rest of the Indians look up to them congratulating them for having cheated them and those near the triumphant elite start planning their downfall.Basically when you put your mind to something and work with perfection and determination you succeed.I sucked at math bigtime but with some hard work and determination now I am an IIT graduate working abroad.All I say is that it’s not whites or East Asians or Chinese people who’ve off the charts IQ all I’d say is that there are too many people who can’t seem to use their brains to the very full potential.Those of them who can move ahead and are looked up to as high IQ guys but if you can use them you are gonna be no less.Different nationalities are good at different stuff and Indians are good at backstabbing smart ones move out of India to avoid the very same and subsequently prosper.And Aistulf no shit but only shit dicks like you are the very reason the world see’s such less progress in racial matters,shitheads like you are the reason Hitler was the Fuhrer sickos like you are guys who are responsible for such a lot of misery in this world. 216
Posted by Americangirl on January 03, 2010, 03:34 PM | # As a white Westerner who is watching my society decay at the hands of Third World immigration, I am getting sick and tired of the ignorance on this topic. I keep seeing whiny Indians above going on and on about how smart the Indians IN EUROPE AND AMERICA are. Meanwhile you ignore that these immigrants are a small portion of India’s global population. If Indians OVERALL were as smart as whites then we would be seeing results right now. India would be as advanced as Denmark. Get out of our countries and go back to India. We did just fine without you before. I am also getting sick of these emotional comments going into how “India was the greatest civilization the world had ever known”. If that is the case, then why isn’t it still great? By what criteria are you going by to say that India was a superior civilization at one time? And not only that, but who was it in India that was responsible for it? Yes, it took Europe a while to “surpass the world”, but we also had the disadvantage of living in a cold continent devoid of natural resources for the longest time. Get a life, and stop coming up with these ridiculous excuses that “whites moved to the top not based on their intelligence but because they stole resources from the rest of the world”. Okay, if this is the case, then why was it so easy for us to steal them from you to begin with if you were the superior ones? White people are NOT going to be putting up with this garbage much longer. You can brag about how most American and British engineers and doctors are Indian all you want, and then meanwhile we wonder why the West isn’t on top of the world like we used to be. I wonder if there is a correlation between the two. Where were all those smart Indians when we landed on the moon? 217
Posted by Indian on January 04, 2010, 04:14 PM | # The Indian IQ conundrum. India is extremely diverse as it has about more than 2000 different ethnic groups. Southern Brahmin, 1% @ 120 IQ therefore,Average Indian IQ = 86.10 Some questions the readers might ask: Why such huge disparities in the first place? Why do Southern Brahmins have such high IQ? Why do South Indians have Higher IQ Average than North Indians? If Brahmins indeed have such high IQ why is India still like that? Is this table accurate? Can IQ be considered as a parameter for the progress of a nation? Is IQ differences mainly genetic? So,what lies ahead for India? References: 218
Posted by Signofthetimes on January 05, 2010, 06:29 AM | # Interesting find. Stumbled upon this while searching for the current perceived racism in Australia Indians are having histrionics over. Anyways, it was all a very great read, I would like to add my 2 cents to the ongoing rubbish. First I really don’t care about IQ debates per se, as the people who scored lower will always feel it’s wrong so it’s never a win-win (for the present). But that I want to comment about my observations from all this bickering. And that is, isn’t it eerily similar to when talking about blacks and their IQ’s? Inevitably blacks will show up, first trying to discredit all the research out there, then turn ethnocentric and list their inventions, later start accusing people of racism/having preferences, and end it all by name calling and bashing others themselves. Hahaha. Sounds much like this board, only difference is this time the blacks are replaced with Indians. Of course Indians are still smarter than the negroids and have a greater history, but still skin color wise, there’s not much of a difference. Oh and one more thing, about your *high* verbal sklls. If that’s a measure to success, blacks and Hispanics should be ruling our world by now, they’re just so verbal and loud. Hah, that’ll be the day, sans them outbreeding us all. As for Indian verbal IQ, me thinks Indians talk more than they should. Certainly they rate their call centre skills a bit too highly. Because personally I find getting routed to an Indian call centre to be a little less annoying than to a Filipino one. Both think they speak English better than they do. Both sound like they’re reading from a script, get confused at the drop of complication, thereby going into a rut and needing to transfer you to someone else. And around we go. As I said the Indian is a slightly better than the Filipino but they’re both hard to understand. The first speaking with that annoying sing-song, the second sounding like a scared little ten yr. old. Oh and don’t Indians look down upon Filipinos too? But yet here they are, in the same boat with Indians, being sought out for their “verbal” skills. 219
Posted by SHEILAKRAMAN on January 11, 2010, 02:20 PM | # Indian medical doctor with IQ score of 163( taken twice with almost same results). Much hype about the achievements of many nations are being posted. I think every nation has contributed as per their capacity to the world. 220
Posted by God's Follower on January 12, 2010, 03:36 PM | # I read most of the articles posted above. 221
Posted by Chinese on January 18, 2010, 05:21 AM | # In China, Shanghai centered area ( or the Yangtze River Delta) people have the highest IQ. In 2006, China Government had a IQ test for 6-year old children all over China. Children in Shanghai, Jiangsu Province and Zhejiang Province has a average IQ of >110. Average IQ of Shanghai and Zhejiang Children is around 115. 222
Posted by Chinese on January 18, 2010, 05:38 AM | # I believe Chinese(East Asians) are well evolved compared to other nations, as have been proved by many facts. But this does not mean all Chinese are smart. Basically, In China, People who live in coastal provinces and Yangtze River basin provinces are smarter. However, those who live in remote Northwest are not that smart. So I think Chinese are not as smart as Japanese or Koreans averagely. But people from Yangtze River Delta are believed to have the highest avarage IQ among East Asia. And the average IQ figure of adults from this region, I guess, is around 115-120. 223
Posted by Chinese on January 18, 2010, 07:47 AM | # Let me explain the year 2006 China Official IQ test for children in detail. Here’s some raw data: China children (around 6 year old) average: 103.5 Zhejiang province rural boys: 116.23 ====================================== According to the data above, I think 106 is a reasonable figure for Chinese adult IQ average. 225
Posted by random indian on February 10, 2010, 04:22 PM | # Well… I was hurt to see that my home country is being attacked like that by many outsiders.Some of the language used is terrible. I was even more hurt to see that some Indians are doing the same racist remarks such as by trying to classify brahmins and southerners as superior to the rest.I am from a brahmin family myself(though,am not a very religious person),and I cannot accept this kind of racism.You don’t solve racism with more racism. From my observations,environmental factors like family discipline,nutrition and education tend to play a VERY important role in shaping the child’s Intelligence.Smart children tend to have Active parents who are not necessarily themselves very smart. I will make some points here very quickly: AFRICA ARGUEMENT:We are all from africa and we are closer to each other genetically than are two nearby chimp communities.So why the fighting and belittling? MIXED BREED ARGUEMENT:Well,technically,mixed breeds are more evolved than pure breeds.They tend to have more genetic variety and bad mutations often go away.So if Indians are mixed breeds,then they are at an adavantage here. IM OLYMPIAD ARGUEMENT:Someone from china asked why India doesn’t do well in the IMO.The answer is we don’t take it seriously.China wasn’t topping from the start,were they?They only started doing that after the economic boom.Why is that an Indian is the world chess champion,but not china? Also,IMO results is hardly the end of everything.The french results at IMO is worse than India’s ,but there are so many more Fields medal and Abel prize winners from france than are in China. IQ ARGUEMENT:Firstly,IQ is not the end of everything.IQ doesn’t predict imagination and creativity.And intuition develops with practice.According to Einstein,imagination is the most important thing.Richard Feynman was one of the most intelligent people of last century and he had an IQ of 122.If you count the flynn effect,it’s even lesser.Good,but hardly great.Of course,higher IQ people are more likely to succeed ,just like a person with a fitter body is more likely to succeed in a a sport like tennis.But fitness alone cannot make you a winner or a master at the sport.Moreover,fitness of a healthy person can be improved.
BLACK GENES ARGUEMENT:Scientists are still divided over what are the genetic factors involved in intelligence and whether some races are fundamentally inferior in intelligence.We don’t even know what’s intelligence.What’s funny is that a group of people will still give a few statistical data as “proof” of iq being “mostly” genetic. You cannot give a “percentage” of genetic factor in intelligence because genes and environment react in a complex way and different genes respond to different stimulus differently.Or can you say what percent of the area of the rectangle is contributed by length and what by breadth? In fact,most of the studies suggest that racial difference in IQ is mainly due to environment.Hell,blacks may have a slight advantage over whites genetically. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nisbett/racegen.pdf http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/GeneWatch/GeneWatchPage.aspx?pageId=200&archive=yes Even identical twins have an average IQ difference of 6 points and some pairs have a difference of well over 20 points. FINAL ARGUEMENT:Why are we so keen on selection and division,rather than construction and production.These racial studies of IQ are obviously done racists themselves.A more benefitting study will be to find out what kind of training can boost IQ and how can the available intelligence be used more efficiently. I mean-saying that you are not worthy for a job,you are not worthy for breeding is not a solution.we don’t want to go back to hitler’s eugenics -do we? 226
Posted by Jonathan on February 14, 2010, 08:28 AM | # Wow, the last few pages were a revealing read indeed - a bunch of supposedly high IQ people attacking and belittling each other for no other reason than they believe their ‘group’ to be superior based on nothing but some nebulous three digit number. A question for all of you prodigies: What purpose does this type of ‘research’ serve except to inflame racial and nationalistic tension? No wonder this type of stuff is kept out of the mainstream. 227
Posted by Indians are slumdogs on February 15, 2010, 12:20 AM | # Indians are genetically programmed to be losers 228
Posted by Z on February 15, 2010, 02:22 AM | # Don’t ya just love it when envious ‘Turd world’ brown people (and yes, this includes Asians) go and troll on posts about how supposedly so ‘great’ they putatively are, especially between each other? This is a White man’s site, get on your camel’s and your elephant’s and go to the landfills where your own kind hang out. We don’t need you here. 229
Posted by D on February 15, 2010, 12:55 PM | # As a guy who has been to both India and China, all I can say is they are not in the same league. The typical Indian is stupid and dull (how can these idiots claim that they are the smartest? Honestly they are crazy.), they are surly always lying, always scheming. Their festivals are ridiculous and in my opinion it is a nation of weird retards. My girlfriend has told me she will leave me if I ever take her to dumps like India ever. India sucks, Indians are crap. 230
Posted by Indians are gayz on February 15, 2010, 09:47 PM | # On average, Indian men are borderline gays and wimps. They are over emotional like women. I’m sure a lot of people still remember watching the Indian cricket team’s captain Kapil Dev weep like a woman infront of foreign journalists during an interview with the BBC. Then there’s the case of the near hysterical Indian men who claimed to have been manhandled by Brad Pitt’s bodyguard. And ofcourse Bollywood movies portray the gayness of Indian men. Like dancing and singing aroung the tree. LOL!! All Bollywood actors are shown as being over emotional. Where else do you see men being so emotional, except in India. 231
Posted by Z on February 16, 2010, 05:44 AM | # And ofcourse Bollywood movies portray the gayness of Indian men. Like dancing and singing aroung the tree. LOL!! All Bollywood actors are shown as being over emotional. Where else do you see men being so emotional, except in India. They are also insanely jealous of the White man and the beautiful civilization that his race produced—that is why they kid themselves into think of themselves as ‘Aryans’—and the “East” Asians like to think of themselves (especially the Japanese) as honorary Aryans. ~
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Posted by Reggie on February 16, 2010, 09:05 PM | # My grandfather was a colonel in the British army and was stationed in India during WW2. He would often remark on how he had never come across a more un-manly, butt ugly and deceitful race than the stinky Indians. 233
Posted by AB on February 17, 2010, 04:03 PM | # Well Indians cry because Indians have a heart. I mean I see many western people coming here and claiming that they are superior on the basis of the fact that they actually colonizeed us and enslaved africans?That’s the proof of intellectual superiority?Or is it the proof of your cruelity?Is the smartest peron in a class-room usually the biggest bully in the class? Keep your manliness to yourself. 234
Posted by Slumdog India on February 18, 2010, 11:22 PM | # It doesn’t take genius IQ to figure out that China can kick India’s ass in any area, anytime. If Indians don’t know that, then they have an IQ thats lower that what the estimate suggests. 235
Posted by AB on February 19, 2010, 03:17 PM | # Mr.Johnjayray ,I feel that this blog requires moderation. I believe the original aim of the article was to discuss environmental factors that can influence the Indian IQ.Wasn’t it? 236
Posted by Slumdog India on February 19, 2010, 08:56 PM | # @AB Previous comments by Indian posters have included plentiful racist slurs directed at others. How come no Indian objects when it’s their countrymen mocking and dispariging others, but whine and complain when they get a taste of their own medicine? Hypocracy is a well known Indian trait. 237
Posted by Slumdog India on February 19, 2010, 09:09 PM | # @AB Your own comment includes racist slurs. Don’t be such a two faced wanker. And if you want to know which race has the smallest penis size on record, then read the article below and all will be made clear. 238
Posted by Dragon Star on February 20, 2010, 03:45 PM | # The overwhelming majority of Westerners/white people are equal opportunity haters and lump both Indians/India and Chinese/China into the same cesspool of racist disdain, without any difference. To be fair, China is still far away from achieving the same level of prosperity that the West and Japan have achieved. China is not yet a developed, first world country. But even at this stage, it is unfair to lump China with India. Any comparision b/w China and India is absolutely ridiculous, as there is no comparision b/w the two, apart from similar population size. India is a third world slum by any stretch of the imagination. The reason why India is considered 3rd world is because there is no 4th world category, otherwise India would better fit into that category. Today, China with a per capita income of $4,000 (and still growing), has the humility to admit that it is still a developing country with a lot of work ahead of it. While the boastful Indians, with their abysmal per capita of $1,000 and high levels of absolute poverty, have already crowned themselves a leading world power. Rather than their level of IQ, it’s the level of sanity of the Indians that should be up for debate. 239
Posted by Dragon Star on February 20, 2010, 04:17 PM | # I have noticed that in all India vs China blogs, the discussions tends to be one sided, i.e. majority of the commentors are Indian jingoists who post ceaseless diatribe against China and often pass racial slurs against Chinese people. And ofcourse theres the non-stop self-praise and self-hype by Indians about how they are the smartest, richest and greatest in everything in the world and how great their ridiculous dark age culture and silly hocus pocus, cow, elephant, snake, monkey, rat and penis worshipping religion is. It’s very unfortunate that majority of Chinese people have poor command over English and therefore rarely ever visit these blogs. Otherwise it would be interesting to see what they have to say in reply to the Indian’s diatribe. 240
Posted by AB on February 20, 2010, 04:56 PM | # @slumdog TBH,I am aware that my comment was not completely free of racist elements.And as long as ALL the racist comments are moderated,I have no problems with mine being moderated as well. The thing is though that it was only a response to half a dozen attacking comments preceding mine.I just made a point that being manly is not about being cold-hearted.If it was so,I would rather prefer to be a woman.And secondly,If India was not ruled for so long and was allowed to industrialize much earlier,then India would be a pretty advanced nation by now.If India’s IQ is low then that is also a direct result of that.But thanks to the flynn effect ,it is on the rise.
It’s true that their are some hate comments from Indians as well ,but there are so many more from outsiders and none of those Indian comments have been without provocation. In contrast ,how many outside-people are insulting India(the whole nation) and are provoking a fight between India and China?Like I said,my own comment is preceded by at least half a dozen hate comments. How would you feel ,if you are told that you/your relatives are genetically less inteligent,less athletic,less hygienic,less manly,less good-looking,less everything?you and some other guys(don’t know if they are same guy with different names) are doing the same to Indians.Is it any surprise that some Indians are replying back?If you cannot take part in a contructive discussion,then please leave,u have no business here. Oh and about penis size.(this will my last post regarding this topic,as it’s pointless) here is a better one 241
Posted by AB on February 20, 2010, 05:06 PM | # @Dragon Star I suppose you are chinese? All I wanna say is please don’t generalize,I noticed that one or two Indians were insulting the chinese by calling them gooks and monkeys.That’s obviously a very ugly thing to do.But most Indians really don’t have any bad feelings towards China.India itself has many chinese looking people. Infact,there are many more chinese attackers here.Some Indians did boast,but I think that’s to defend themselves from insults/inferiority remarks. 242
Posted by Dragon Star on February 20, 2010, 09:52 PM | # @AB Many more Chinese attackers here? Where? Most of any attacks against Indians in any blog come from the white people and Pakis. Most Chinese don’t participate in these discussions due to either insufficient knowledge of English or lack of interest. Yet most Indians lose no time in launching their barrage of vulgar rant against you know who. And even if the Chinese commentors did “attack”, it wasn’t done first and in no way comparable to the vile invectives hurled by Indians. Which, as I had mentioned earlier, is a common practise by Indian commentors in any India vs China blog. Not just this one. It’s not just some Indians boasting. A flair for empty boasting and astronomical hyperbole seems to come naturally to most Indians, if not all. Theres a difference b/w putting up a defence by using logical arguments consistant with facts and resorting to delusional bragging and demeaning tirade. By many Chinese looking people in India, you probably mean the people that live in the North-Eastern states of India. All of which were never originally part of India. If I’m not mistaken, these people also have some serious grievance concerning discrimination against them, including outright racial animosity directed against them by the majority population. And you try to make it sound as if these people are living in paradise in India. Your excuses are flimsy. 243
Posted by Slumdog India on February 20, 2010, 10:25 PM | # Yo AB!! Nobody gives a toss about your India. It’s the incessant boasting and shameless self-promotion by you Indians that begs a response by “outsiders”. I couldn’t help laugh my ass off at your ludicrous explanation on how you Indians have a low IQ. Yeah rite! Blame it all on the white man. Like it was the white men who created and enforced that idiotic caste system of yours, or as if that hilarious culture of yours, where dancing and singing around the rose bush spontaneously, was forced on you by the white man. Both of which are indicative of the Indian people’s screwed up mental state. You losers should seriously get a life. 244
Posted by something_1984 on February 21, 2010, 08:09 AM | # in the past platnum was yang and gold was yin. It is now time for things to be reversed on all fronts. 245
Posted by AB on February 21, 2010, 02:14 PM | # It’s impossible to guess their exact country,but there are definitely more people using vulgar language against India than those against China. I don’t care what might have happened in any of those of India vs China blogs,but please don’t bring the hatred from there to here.And also this isn’t exactly an India vs China topic.I do not care if China becomes a super power.I do not har china in general and I plan on learning mandarin at some point in my life.All I want is for India to become a 1st world nation by 2030. You are very misinformed about the north eastern states.They are ALL parts of India.Not only that ,even Nepal was a part of ancient India and so was the rest of Tibet .Unfortunately,we lost them. Secondly,even outside of north-eastern states,you can find pure chinese faces(such as in Bengal and UP).And purity is not a criteria,then When I was a school student ,my best friends were chinese looking.India’s football team captain is chinese looking. And India cares about all of these states as much as it cares about any other state.There are some problems,but they are no more worse than in many other states.The thing is India’s economy needs to get better in order to make everyone happy. You know very little about India as a country. 246
Posted by AB on February 21, 2010, 02:32 PM | # @Dragon Star @Slumdog Caste system is an evil,but the situation with castes have definitely improved though.And people who hate India often magnify the evils of caste system a 100 times.In reality there is no/very-little untouchability practiced in the society(may be in the past,but not now).Moreover,some benefits are given to lower castes like reservations etc.Do the blacks get any special privellage in America or Europe?No. The west have already done the damage they needed to do.The main culprit that exist today is definitely poverty and poor educational system and bad politics.And India’s spiritual nature of culture also takes attention a bit away from practical things. And I do not really hate the white people in general.Only some of them who did bad things. 247
Posted by Punj on February 21, 2010, 04:53 PM | # There is no point in fighting really.We are all related. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBlZl8RON8 Indians are mainly caucasoids.Although there is also mongoloid blood (especially in the east) and negroid blood (especially in the south). If genes really do play a role in IQ,then the negroid and mongoloid will cancel each other and our IQ should be somewhere around the caucasoid range.And that is exactly what most of the studies show outside of India (like in UK,SA,Singapore etc) where there is no selective migration. 248
Posted by Slumdog India on February 21, 2010, 11:03 PM | # Punji boy I don’t know from where you Indians get the notion that your race is caucasian. As far as I can tell, most Indians are medium to dark brown and resemble the middle easterns and australian aboriginals more than the Europeans. Apart from your darker complexion, you Indians don’t have any of the typical facial structure of Europeans. Is it your desire to be ethnically related to the white race? Does it make you feel better about your race? I mean look, your crickter Harbajan Singh is as dark as an African himself, but he has the nerve to call Australian aboriginal crickter Andrew Symmonds a black monkey. LOL!! Look whos calling who a black monkey. It’s pretty evident that you Indians don’t feel good about your race and want to belong to the white race’s club. Good luck, keep on trying. “If genes really do play a role in IQ,then the negroid and mongoloid will cancel each other and our IQ should be somewhere around the caucasoid range.” I don’t know what you mean by that. To me, it’s a really dumb ass claim and highly contentious if you are trying to say that you Indians (caucasian wannabes) are smarter than the mongoloids. Just take a look around and you’ll see for yourself that mongoloid countries like Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong are 1st world places and even China is ascending really fast with many world class cities. And Singapore with a Mongoloid majority, is also a developed state. In comparision, all countries with brown populations like the ones in the Middle East and South Asia are underdeveloped 3rd world slums, with high levels of poverty and destitution. Which also includes India. Besides, Mongoloids (along with the whites) have played major roles in world history. In contrast, no brown person has impacted world history in any significant way. If you Indians are really that much smarter, then why aren’t you using all that smartness? Are you hoarding it somewhere? LOL!! 249
Posted by Guest Lurker on February 22, 2010, 12:58 AM | # It always perplexes me why it is non-whites even bother frequenting boards such as this. Why do they bother? 250
Posted by Guest Lurker on February 22, 2010, 01:13 AM | # As to the caste system, it might have been a creation of migrant Indo-Aryan tribes. This is a serious point of contention among Hindu nationalists who resist the idea that any aspects of their culture might be due to non-indigenous elements. However, while they resist the idea of Indo-Europeans migrants into the subcontinent, there has not been any credible argument mounted for the expansion of Indo-Europeans OUT of India and westward, at least not to my knowledge. The genetics at this stage is also confusing. At one point it was thought haplotype R1A was representative of Indo-Euros and that its provenance was Eastern Europe. Recent studies suggest there are even older sub-clades of it in India. Yet others claim that R1A probably originated in China about 21,000 years ago and showed up in Southern Siberia about 20,000 years ago. From this point, 2 branches split- one towards India, the other towards Europe. This interpretation has it that the R1A sub-clade that reached India got there a few thousand years earlier, but another one from the other branch from the Balkans made its way across the steppes and into India as the Indo-Aryans. Here is that pdf if anyone is interested: 251
Posted by Punj on February 22, 2010, 07:42 PM | # Actually Slumdog,I only said that Indians are mainly caucasians(not pure caucasians) and that’s true.Genetically they tend to be much closer to Europeans ,than to Orientals or Negroids. Here is a chart which was not created by an Indian: Of course,it isn’t very accurate as the population is actully much more homogenous(due to interbreeding).Also,the australoid part should be placed much more southward than suggested.But you do get the idea. Nor did I ever say that mongoloids are less IQ people.Your comprehension skill doesn’t look any better than a baby.I said that because mongoloids tend to score higher than caucasians,and negroids lower,and the fact that Indians have both mongoloid and negroid blood in them,the higher IQ genes and lower IQ genes will balance each other out ,leaving the Indian IQ at near the caucasoid range.The Singapore Indians are actually mostly the lowest caste people,yet they score near about 100.Obviously,this verifies my hypothesis. As for mongoloids ,I am not sure if they are really any smarter than Indians.Look at Bhutan and Nepal.These 2 countries have much higher percentage of mongoloids than in India.And being surrounded by mountains,they also have a pretty cold climate compared to their latitude.But they seem to have an even lower IQ than Indians!! And your face recognition skills seems to be even worse than your reading skills.A typical Indian face is more European looking than both Arabs and Australoids.See the video in my last post. The reason why Australoids and Indians share similar skin colour has got a lot to with the latitude. As for Harbhajan,he said an Indian abuse,it was misinterpreted as “Big Monkey” by the australians.I doubt Harbhajan was even aware that in the west they call the black people monkeys(most Indians aren’t aware of it).In India,the term monkey is usually said to the hyperactive and mischeivous people.Mothers often call their children monkey because children tend to be hyperactive.Hell,we even have monkey gods.This only shows that australians think along racist lines.It may be a genetic defect. 252
Posted by QuickSilver on February 22, 2010, 10:09 PM | # @AB, I think you have some misunderstandings about India and I would like to point them out here. India, as an independent unified political entity does not exist historically. It takes a British empire to create what we today referred to as India. Winston Churchill summed it up when he said India is as much a country as the equator is a country. Even Gandhi himself did not know he was an Indian until he was classified as one when he board a train in South Africa. Gandhi viewed himself as a Gujarati. But even at the time of India independence, there are still a lot of territories and princely states that were not part of British India. Goa, Hyderabad, Sikkim..etc being some of the examples. Immediately after independence, Nehru methodically consolidated all the territories that were not part of the British empire into a contiguous area, often by heavy hand tactics or outright invasion. The present day North East India, the so-called seven sisters, never want to be part of India but was forcibly incorporated into India. Even today, the Assamese ...etc. are still fighting for their independence. In other words India is a country created instantly in 1947 as a result of colonial legacy. Much like a lot of other countries created as a result of colonialism, it holds together people that has no affinities to each other beyond some vague commonalities like Hinduism. These peoples have no common language, no common history. It is because of this realization that Nehru has to set up a department to instill a sense of Indian-ness among its people when the country was first created some 60 years ago. You said this and that are all part of ancient India reflects a misconception called Arkand Bharat. It is this mentality that makes India hated by ALL its neighbors. 253
Posted by Slumdog India on February 22, 2010, 11:29 PM | # Listen Punji The average Indian’s facial structure doesn’t look anything like a European. Europeans have long and narrow faces, deep set eye sockets, slim noses, high cheek bones, angular jaw line. Indians have shorter and broader faces, bulbous noses and dispropotionately bigger eyes. Those few Indians who do resemble Southern Europeans like Greeks and Italians are probably the result of interbreeding. It may be recalled that many Greek soldiers from Alexander’s army had settled in India. The only people in Europe who you Indians can claim as your ethnic kindred are the Roma gypsies. They are originally from India and many of them do look like Indians and Pakis. The question of wether the average mongoloid is smarter than the average Indian or not is best left to the experts to answer. All I can add is that the mongoloid race has achieved much more in history, than brown skin people. 254
Posted by AB = Liar on February 22, 2010, 11:58 PM | #
Is this a deliberate lie or are you ignorant of the racial situation in Europe and America? 255
Posted by Punj on February 23, 2010, 07:15 PM | # @Quick Silver I am not going to wait for AB,I will reply to your post myself. I am an Indian and as a result I had to study Indian History.So I am pretty aware of exactly what AB meant.India did exist historically as a common empire at a lot of different times,even before the british empire.Perhaps the most the most prominent one was the maurya dynasty. The concept of “Nation” itself is quite new and only applies to the modern world. And does it even matter what India was in the distant past?India is what it is now.And everyone has accepted it.Even the north-eastern states have accepted that.The few noises that come now and then are caused by the minority of these people,not the majority. I think the original the original point of the debate was whether these far-east states have Indian or Chinese influence?Obviously the answer is India.The thing is these states have much more in common than just religion.Nepali uses devnagri as a script,same as hindi and Assam uses swaralipi as their script,same as bengali.In tibet ,the two most famous tourist spots Kailash(HIndu god’s name)-Parvat and Manas-Sarovar are completely hindu names.The tibetian language has nothing to with mandarin and has much more in common with Indian languages.And I can bet you that Dalai Lama would much rather prefer to be called an Indian than a Chinese. The bristish claim that they “created ” India is laughable,because they obviously did nothing but divide it.The “divide and conquer” principle was used to make ruling India easier,it has nothing to do with do with non-existance of india.The word “Bharat” can be found in MANY MANY old literature.India always existed. @Slumdog Slumdog,man,it’s pointless to argue with a baby.But still, I will reply to you one more time.You have probably seen some picturtes of hungry dying Indians over the internet to come to draw conclusions.Unfortunately,most of India is rather poor.
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Posted by Guest Lurker on February 23, 2010, 09:02 PM | #
I’ve been to India, and what you’ve written above is nonsense. Even well to do Indians look nothing like Euros, and neither do gypsies. There are politicians in southeast Europe who dress like the local Balkan Euros, and yet they are clearly distinguishable from the indigenes. I’m curious, what exactly is the agenda of someone like yourself that you would take time to seek out a white racialist board and post on it? 257
Posted by Guest Lurker on February 23, 2010, 09:04 PM | # In the above post, I was referring to gypsy politicians. 258
Posted by Slumdog India on February 23, 2010, 10:46 PM | # Punji, stop bullshitting!! Biharis, Gujratis, Tamils, Goans, Bungalees look nothing like European and neither do Poonjabis. The Roma people are easily told apart from the European. Even Ghandi looked nothing like a European. 259
Posted by Punj on February 23, 2010, 10:58 PM | # Sorry,I wasn’t really aware that this is supposed to be a racist blog for white people.The thing is that it is very easy to stumble across this kind of blog while searching for something else. I saw lots of Indians,Chinese and other people posting here and a topic that does not have anything to do with whites.So it never even occured to me that this was supposed to be a blog exclusively for white people.Since that’s the case,this is will be my last comment then.I have no interest in fuelling your racism any more. Indians are considered caucasian by even many western people.Does that mean they are the same as white?No.But there are definitely similarities in the skull structure.I never said Indians are indistuishable from westerners(the word you used). I don’t know which well off families you saw in India(and which part of India).OK,may be not all of them.But many well off families,especially those that are highly educated, do indeed look a lot more western than others-if you can get over the skin colour and dress code,that is.(If possible,watch some Indian TV commercials.) Gypsies often get away by saying that they are spanish,italian etc.It’s a fact.Some of them are indeed very distuingishable,but definitely not all of them. Among western people,I would say Indians look more like the jews than most of the other groups.Gypsies too.Infact Hitler actually put the jews and gypsies into the same category and discriminated against them.It is indeed true that jews have south asians genes that are not found in the remaining Europeans. P.S:Again,I don’t mean identical features,just similar features.Indians obviously have some differences. 260
Posted by I on February 23, 2010, 11:11 PM | #
Have you ever heard of Sino-Tibetan language family? Tibetan and Chinese are of the same origin. And Tibetans and Han-Chinese just look the same. Tibet was never under India’s rule but was a part of China back to 800 years ago. Moreover, India itself was united/created by British for the first time in the past 1000 years. Buddhism was originated from Nepal and Sakyamuni is a Chinese-looking guy. This explains why Buddhism religion is popular only in East-Asian countries. 261
Posted by Guest Lurker on February 24, 2010, 01:04 AM | #
And what evidence do you have of this? Just because Christianity became the religion of Europe, does this mean that the Europeans are all genetic semites? From my reading, Buddha is known as the Sage of the Sakyas. Renowned Finnish Indologist, Asko Parpola, believes that the Sakyas were the ancient Indo-Iranic Sakas, from whom the later Scythians and Jats descended. The Jats today still preserve legends of Buddha being a Jat and of the lineage of the solar king, Iksvaku. In the Digha Nikaya, which is the oldest book of the presectarian Pali Canon, it is said that Buddha [DN 3.144] “has blue eyes”. Do you have alternate information? Also, are you a Chinese? 262
Posted by Shiva on February 24, 2010, 05:14 AM | # It is safe to say that most of the Indian guys posting here are quite ignorant and boorish. I wonder why they even bothered to say anything. Let me give my two cents worth here. I am a great admirer of China, and the progress it has made over the past few decades. I think a firefly-esque future for the world is very desirable, where English and Mandarin are the dominant languages (Hindi and Arabic speakers will probably disagree). Industriousness and hard work are very chinese qualities, qualities which build civilisations. But I find the average chinese person very ignorant about his nation’s past (unless you count Chaiman Mao!). It seems that they have become a nation of soulless factory workers! Not very ‘intelligent’, in my opinion. I dislike several qualities that are typically found in Indians, like their propensity to jabber endlessly, their laziness, divisiveness, etc. India is also probably the only place where cowardice and non violence are elevated to a virtue. Probably comes from having their arses handed to them so many times in the past. And yes, independence was not won, but rather granted by the Brits who simply became disinterested. But only after looting it dry, breaking its spirit, destroying its traditional systems of thought, imposing a prudish Victorian morality, and reducing it to a nation of beggars. The Indians did not ask you to come to conquer them. Yet, driven by greed, you came. Well, the consequences are just beginning to show. Armed with English, the brightest ones will spread out across the world. You did not honestly think that you could just leave India poor and forget about it, did you? The ‘globalised’ same system that you have set free will come back and haunt you. I see that a lot of people here equate Hinduism with a backward, animal and penis worshipping religion. That is a very mistaken POV. Unlike the bloody monotheistic religions emanating from the so-called ‘Holy Land’, Hinduism does not expect much from its followers, and allows them to stay true to their native culture and express themselves as that feel like. Coming to the question of intelligence, I think a nation as rich as India in religious traditions, epics, poetry, languages, systems of thought, logic, etc can rival any other in terms of intelligence. All those who think darkies = dumb can eat their hears out! 263
Posted by Shiva on February 24, 2010, 08:18 AM | # I have one question which I hope the commentators here can answer: Are we comparing the Intelligence of indians and chinese, or of Aryans and East Asians? While the chinese are a pretty homogeneous in terms of race (at least to me), it is a rather vexing question for the indians. While i will not get into this, i see a gross injustice done to the indians when it comes to historical achievements. The aryans who did settle down in india in the past, should be considered indians, shouldn’t they? Whatever they wrote, invented, discovered, etc should rightfully be considered indian achievements, not aryan achievements, right? Are not the Brits proud of their Anglo Saxon heritage, even though these tribes were originally ‘invaders’? I fully support the anti-miscegenation theme in this forum, but the game is not as one sided as you think. indians as a percentage of the population in the US and the UK are increasing (given the low native birth rate, for which the indians are not to blame 264
Posted by Slumdog Hot-aire on March 06, 2010, 03:36 PM | # East Asian majority countries are prosperous and progressive. South Asian majority countries are poverty stricken, backward and prone to social and political strife. What more proof do you want to show that East Asians have superior intellect? 265
Posted by Ashok on March 16, 2010, 03:03 PM | # Comments by Dragon Star and Shiva have brought some semblance of decency to this crapfe… err.. debate. They represent the level-headed numbers from China and India and the hope for the future. I personally agree that we have a lot to learn from East Asia. Forty years ago South Korea had a lower per capita income than India. Today SK companies have cornered the Indian car market. In the face of all evidence it is baffling to see the racist malice the urban Indian, primarily for the north reserves for the East Asian. To most Indians there will be no difference in perception of a Nepali and a Japanese, that in itself says how superficial and geographically challenged we are as a people inspite of all the claims to great refinement in culture. Now the good news: the Indian IQ is nowhere as low as Lynn calculated with his sample size drawn from the muckiest and poorest interiors of the country. It may not be as high as its Chinese equivalent but it is definitely not as low as North Africa or the Middle East. 266
Posted by Guessedworker on March 16, 2010, 04:09 PM | # Ashok, It would be interesting to know where you would intuit the pan-Indian IQ, and whether you think Pakistan and Bangladesh would vary. Care to take a stab at it? 267
Posted by Gupta on March 16, 2010, 08:25 PM | # Ashok You’re right about specially northern Indians. They are the scum of the earth. Even when they migrate to other countries, they take their dirty habits with them. They are cheap racists and very jealous. Yet as history proves, they have no problem kissing the ass of foreign conquerers. They are cowardly and shameless as well. Another good point you have made, is that Indians, despite all the hype and boasting about their ancient civilization and culture, hardly behave in civilized and cultured way. Most Indians are ill-mannered and uncouth. Indians are hippocrates who only know how to boast but never show action to match their boasts. Chinese are focused and goal oriented. Unlike Indians, they act more and talk less. That pretty much explains why China is light years ahead of India and will always be light years ahead of India. 268
Posted by Ashok on March 20, 2010, 07:11 PM | # The pan-Indian IQ could be in the early 90s as someone commented previously. Pakistan would rank lower, Bangladesh near about the same or slightly higher. It is complex comparing India to Bangladesh as they would one-up each other in their abysmal rankings alternately on indexes such as literacy rates and malnutrition. Historically however the Bengalis have won more Nobel prizes than any other south asian group and Bangladesh is routinely outdo Indians in international programming contests (this one is the hardest to ignore) But again these are just indicators and could be just because of their robust intellectual tradition. They have had a brain food rich fish diet though, for centuries. Gupta, I agree with some of what you say. To ascribe a single tendency to a sixth fraction of humanity with thousands of circles and their intersections is fraught with risk of overkill. And the groups you mention are so boxed-in and scarred that the more you beat them down on forums the harder they will come down on us and upon themselves. Chinese are everything you say, and also not as constantly at odds with themselves. 269
Posted by dave on March 22, 2010, 02:37 AM | # What race are Bengali people? Some of them look like Oriental(Mongolic race), are they some kind of mix? 270
Posted by Mythslayer on March 25, 2010, 06:25 PM | # RJ please get yourself educated & get out of the old idiotic theory that caste was based on race because it’s not and the proof is in the pudding. The so called “lowly” Dravidians outperform Northerners. There is no real concrete racial division between Northeners and Southerners but Southerners on average tend to be darker in India just like in Italy and they tend to speak the Dravidian languages unlike the Northeners who speak languages derived from Sanskrit. Unlike in Italy though they tend be higher performing than North Indians. Now that we got the basics right, let me educate you a bit about your misconceptions. The most developed region of India as a whole is the “Dravidian” South & Bangalore is the Southern city where IT jobs are being mainly outsourced. Ramanujan one of the most brilliant mathematicians of the 20th century was a dark skinned Southerner from Tamilnadu the southern most & darkest state of India. So is Subramanya Chandrasekhar & CV Raman who won Nobels in Physics. Steve Sailer I believe has dicussed this also. 271
Posted by Mythslayer on March 25, 2010, 06:35 PM | # Ashok one of those was Tagore who won it in literature. Another is Muhammad Yunus who won it for peace. Amartya Sen the socialist dhimmi won it for economics. I need not repeat that it’s much harder to win a Nobel in Physics (& other hard sciences) like Raman & Chandrasekhar where decisions are much less influenced by political considerations than in economics and peace. West Bengal was also a communist basket case till very recently. 272
Posted by IQ is not the most serious issue with Indians on April 02, 2010, 10:05 PM | # India is such a dirt poor 3rd cesspool that makes up-Sahara countries look like paradise. Why can’t you Indian talents stay home and help your countrymen suffer less? Last time I checked, according to Bloomberg, more than 800 million Indians defecate in the open @http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&pid=20601109. Those who do go to toilets just use bare hand to wipe @htttp://www.pbase.com/jtodhunter/indian_toilet. You may say it is a cultural issue or none of your business hygiene issue. But, it WILL be global environmental issues if India does nothing to control her population and work hard on these large scale unhygienic habits. 273
Posted by Ricola on April 04, 2010, 02:19 AM | # I read the link above http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&pid=20601109 and it says that some 665 millions Indian practice open defecation, not 800 millions. Then I google ‘India open defecation’ and found this link: http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jul/hlt-squat.htm and it says that some Indian reverts to open defecation even toilet is available. And the reason suggested is that ‘most Indians suffer from claustrophobia once inside an enclosed toilet’. 274
Posted by Person on April 11, 2010, 03:26 PM | # ” West media is guilty of hyping up the fallacy of Indian coming superpower status. Whole India is now right on this steroid and wholeheartedly believes that India is a tech superpower. The facts of matters are that Indians on average are very low IQ. International IQ study experts estimates that Indian’s average IQ is 81. The IQ stats well explains why 600-700 million Indians can not even write their own names and majorities of Indians live below sub-Sahara countries living standards. While Indian upper caste elite blogs here bragging wildly, most Indians do not have clean water to drink, have no electricity, and suffer from no sewage system. Hundreds of millions Indian urinate and defecate in the open. Mr. Singh told the BBC that more than 65% of India’s population defecated in the open, along roadsides, railway tracks and fields, generating huge amounts of excrement every day @http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4742929.stm. These include so-called middle class. Majorities of Indians actually can not afford toilet paper so that they have to use bare hand to wipe their as$. The sewage/sanitary system are so bad so that politician offer toilet for a parliament seat. http://www.indax.com/trculture.html . Because of the low average IQ, Indians are prone to believe all sort of phony stats as facts as long as they hype up Indian supremacy. People LOL when Indians brag that Indians make up 50% NASA scientists, 40% Microsoft and started 1/3 American high-tech startup. These bogus stats are internet hoax to make fun of Indian braggart nature. However, hundreds of millions of Indian believe these funny stats. It is understandable that average low IQ Indians are prone for these lies. However, it is stunning that even Indian parliament also believe these hoaxes. Indians government official also cite these bogus stats to declare Indian dominance in US, making Indian government a laughing stock of itself. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_in_NASA_Govt_falls_for_net_hoax/articleshow/2856295.cms India.ns are opting to complain the stupidity of their government. They conveniently forget they elect them themselves. “ It makes me laugh to see all of the incorrect facts in here. First of all, when you say that the Indians elect their officials, it reminds me of the Western side as well; they complain about their government, and frequently forget that they are the ones who elected them. Also, a low IQ has nothing to do with defectation. You are wandering off the subject and evidently want to harass the Indian race to an extreme. Stay on topic! I’m only going off topic myself to correct the false information you dished out so easily. Start acting mature and deal with the article, not your evidently rascist opinions. As with the IQ information of the main article, I am wondering if you have taken the stats from every area in India; another comment said the data was only taken from the northern parts of India within a disadvantaged group of people. Is this true? Thanks. 275
Posted by Ashok on April 17, 2010, 11:30 AM | # I think most Indians who think India is on par to overtake China fall into two categories 1. Indians who have never stepped out of the country. Another factor that will tilt the scales is that the smartest Chinese who study in the west eventually return to China. It is hardly the same in India’s case. If Confucian China was not already historically a meritocratic society, the CCP’s theme of rapid development at all costs has hardwired a savage competitiveness into the average Chinese that would be tough for Indians conditioned to hate their bureaucracy and ignore the systemic inefficiences to match. I shiver at the thought of what 50 million East Asians in South Korea achieved in 30 yrs, and 120 million in Japan after devastation in the world war. Imagine 1.5 billion of them under a Communist regime. India must not adopt a confrontational position vis-a-vis China, not militarily atleast in any case. Only yesterday China posted 11.2% GDP growth figures, announced its first indigenously built Maglev train, while India’s space rocket with an indigenous cryogenic engine failed its launch. 276
Posted by such bolo on April 17, 2010, 08:36 PM | # @Ashok Well said buddy. You’r one of those rare desis who can speak the truth instead of being arrested by a false sense of patriotic fervour. Indians have easier access to cell phones than to toilets. If this is the hi-tech India that so many Indians attempt to boast about, then India shouldn’t be comparing with China. 277
Posted by such bolo on April 17, 2010, 08:40 PM | # Atleast the Chinese know which necessity comes first in order of precedence, in it’s endeavour to progress. 278
Posted by such bolo on April 17, 2010, 08:52 PM | # Indians seem to be obsessed with trying to win a juvenile game of one upmanship with China, without even having a clue on how to get their priorities straight first. A game which India never had any chance of winning. Most Indians exhibit an outrageous lack of maturity and rationality. 279
Posted by losers!! on April 20, 2010, 01:29 AM | # How many of you have degrees for christ’s sake? Simply jumping at things that are not well described or well founded. IQ is not a proper measure. Its not proven. IQ test has vocabulary and verbal skill tests, i don’t even know if these tests are offered in native languages. Brain can be exercised and academic training will directly affect the IQ score. We are as intelligent as we work on our brain. Simple. 280
Posted by Ashish Sach on April 25, 2010, 05:43 AM | # @losers
Is not the same parameters (about tests not being in native language) apply to chinese as well.
Mandarin and other Chinese languages are way different from English.
Indians are learning English for at least last two centuries , while Chinese have just begun two decades back.
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Posted by arjun on May 02, 2010, 02:17 AM | # @losers!! I fully agree with you man.Whatever India is,we can get always get better.There is no harm in dreaming.In fact,they say fiction is the mirror of a culture and if I have noticed anything,it’s the fact that advanced nations are bigger dreamers than us.I think the main culprit for this is our poor economy and a “spiritual” culture which takes attention away from materialistic goals. Oh,and all these based on some stupid book by Lynn?It’s pretty obvious from things like the flynn effect that Wealth raises IQ ,not the other way around. I wonder who are these people who keep taking Indian names and saying the worst things about India?Are these some chinese having Indian friends(perhaps in the US).Are these peole from countries like Nepal(Nepal is a hindu country mind you)?Are these Pakis?Are these Vietnamese people who have studied hinduism?Are these Lankans?(Shouldn’t Lanka be genetically more similar to us?) I don’t think these people are Indians.No decent person can bad mouth their homeland in such an ugly disrespectful way.
This one is a little hard to digest.Are you putting cowardice and non-violence in the same bracket?Are you saying that violence is a desirable quality?Do you even know the difference between bravery and violence?Perhaps ,according to you,dropping the atomic bomb was an act of bravery?Or perhaps you view Gandhi or Buddha as a coward?In the modern world,empathy is required. 282
Posted by Threester on May 02, 2010, 12:34 PM | # I found something on the internet: http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/podcasts/India_China_Border.mp3 It is a podcast. Download it and listen. Interesting stuff. 283
Posted by Shankar on May 02, 2010, 01:26 PM | # Yeh baat bilkul sahi hai kay: 284
Posted by Peter Wong on May 03, 2010, 05:40 AM | # I applaud all the level-headed humans who had the decency to stop all these nonsense. All humans are capable of achieving high IQ growth, we just need the proper environment and economic conditions. Whether you are Black, Blue, White or Green, everyone has the potential. Humans should be concentrating on protecting mother earth and making the world a better place for our next generation. We don’t need another world war to prove who is better. We might not even have another world after that.
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Posted by Frank on May 03, 2010, 05:26 PM | # Mr. Wong, who wants world war? That’d be dreadful. Have you ever met a black person? I suggest you do before lecturing on how race doesn’t exist. Northeast Asians are very capable… Blacks are not. Live in denial if you will. I live in a half black area, so I know the truth. 286
Posted by DarkSoul on May 06, 2010, 04:10 AM | # What in the name of—?! Jeez! I don’t believe I just wasted almost an entire hour going through all the drivel posted in the comments, hoping to find SOME semblance of maturity and simple sense, only to be left with a sense of disappointment and a very bad taste in my mouth. It is incredibly sad to see the level the global community has fallen to, if these are the sentiments commonly held by most of the global population, be it Westerners, East Asians, South Asians, South-east Asians, people from the Indian subcontinent, Africa, even some goddarned researcher sitting in Antarctica, for all I care. Come on people. Doesn’t the world around us have enough problems as it is? How the fuck can you be so conceited? I personally believe that this post was originally meant to discuss simply the variable rate of IQ across the world, based on differences as perceived and observed on the basis of racial and/or geographical demarcations. This is NOT a place for you to spout your racist bile at members from other races. To everyone, Westerner or not, (primarily Westerners, from what I’ve read), go focus on your improvement. Instead of trying to shout down other people, and expressing your insecurity about this so-called “threat” from nations like China and India, prove to them that you have what it takes to reclaim your “glory of yore”, as some of you like to put it. The reason why the West is considering these nations and their brethren as threats today is because of their rapid development over the last couple of decades, especially since the ‘90s. The West, complacent in its own sheltered cocoon and with its “oh-we-are-so-better-than-you” attitude, has suffered simply because it made the mistake of underestimating the rest of the world. This has proved to be a costly mistake, and the results are up for show. To the people from China, India, Australia, Africa, and any other country or region of the world, who feel they have been the target of racist attacks here or elsewhere, deal with it. Differentiation between “us” and “them” is a centuries-old human mindset and no amount of campaigning or whining and complaining about it is going to help. You simply have to work with what you get and make the best of it. And in recent years, you have shown that YOU can work and progress, despite setbacks and opposition. Judging from most parameters, this is going to be YOUR decade, make the most of it. To the people who have tried to moderate things online here, and keep the flow of shit in check, thanks a lot. DragonStar, Ashok, AB, Peter Wong, Such Bolo, and all the others who I have forgotten, the world needs more progressive minds like you. Keep up the good work, and let’s hope that we get to see more and more people like you guys and girls take an active role in international affairs and relations. The World needs more Heroes… And finally, a response in advance to anyone who thinks I’m spouting crap and who wishes to start flaming again by carving a personal vendetta against me, two words - F.U.C.K Y.O.U! If you are so insecure that you feel threatened simply by a random guy expressing his views online through a post, go cry to your mommy. Or better still, go hang yourself or drink cyanide or something and rid us the sheer exasperation of having to tolerate dickheads like you, and the necessity to find and kill you. The world is a very small place, and you can never be too safe. You have been warned… Peace! Freedom Forever! _\m/ 287
Posted by Shiva on May 06, 2010, 08:42 AM | # Looks like there a lot of Indians who are of the opinion that China is superior….thats understandable, as treachery and being obsequious are very Indian traits again. To Frank - who here denies that race exists? Where did that enter the picture? Thats like denying the difference between a greyhound and a beagle! 288
Posted by thoreaulylazy on May 09, 2010, 02:34 AM | # Josh, I don’t know where you get your numbers. You wrote “Jews @ 113 IQ. Al Einstein and others” citing IQ and Wealth of Nations. Yet, if you look at the table from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations Israel - 94
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Posted by JAI HO on May 10, 2010, 05:31 PM | # Chinese are definately smarter than Indians. Why else do leaders of both, powerful and not so powerful states go to China, but not India, for help in matters of global importance? What clout does India have on the world stage? (India’s foreign policy initiatives don’t go much beyond the catfight with Pakistan). SO WHAT THE HELL IS ALL THIS PHONEY COMPARISION B/W CHINA AND INDIA ALL ABOUT? APART FROM POPULATION SIZE, IS THERE ANY REAL COMPARISION B/W THE TWO? 290
Posted by Frank on May 10, 2010, 06:58 PM | # Shiva, we’re discussing races not individuals. I’m sure there are many individuals who surpass me, but blacks are very different from whites and East Asians. You have civilised races and you have hunter-gatherer races. Blacks are of the latter. I live with blacks. Have you ever met one? My society bends over backwards to promote blacks, and it’s nigh impossible to find competent ones. “Token blacks” are to be found everywhere. Government jobs are filled overwhelmingly by blacks to ensure they’re employed. Claiming blacks are equal or even near the same in intelligence as whites or East Asians is simply wrong. - The only reason I’m concerned with China is because it looks like a burgeoning empire. I don’t want to see a reverse Opium Wars take place. I also wish for America’s empire to shrink. If the Chinese state turns into an empire, the Chinese people (as well as many other peoples) will suffer. Some might take great pride or for a few generations enjoy great wealth, but they’ll ultimately end up as the West has. America is an older superpower, take it from an American: you don’t want to make a Faustian bargain for empire. Keep your soul, and reject the empire. 291
Posted by WEI YAO on June 01, 2010, 03:22 AM | # both chinese and japanese speak very bad english.we don’t learn much english because our books are writen in our own language,how about indian/they learn english since they were born ,all the books are writen in english.thats one of the reasons that indian have more people working for call-centre. 292
Posted by sup on June 04, 2010, 01:19 AM | # yet all the indians in the USA are geniuses. Seriously, all the indians i know (more than 10) took calculus before highschool and maintained A+ in all the most advanced classes possible. but india is very impoverished, and only the well-off come to America, which is why indians there have low IQ but indians here are so smart. 293
Posted by cha on June 04, 2010, 01:23 AM | # I doubt that the aboriginals’ average IQ is 60. That would mean that the average aboriginal is severely mentally retarded and cannot take care of themselves - and 50% of them are even worse than them. that would mean for every aboriginal with an average IQ of 100, there is one with an IQ of 20 - pretty much brain-dead. that is utter bull****. 294
Posted by shiva on June 04, 2010, 01:49 AM | # Frank, Thanks for the well worded response. I have never lived with blacks around me, so I guess I should (at least partially) take your word for it. You then mention “You have civilised races and you have hunter-gatherer races”. If memory serves me right, I read somewhere that Europeans (esp. in the north) started off as hunter-gatherers too! How these hunter gatherers went on to create the wonderlands of present day Scandinavia (where I have been) is beyond me though. I however, do believe that some races cannot, and should not mix (both socially and biologically). I just cant imagine a black man in, say, Denmark, or a Dane in Central Africa, living according to the norms of the respective socities. Coming back to the point of India v/s China, I sincerely feel that China’s economic progress has been possible because of the Communisty Party’s authoritarian hold on power. I feel that a ‘good’ dictator can achieve much more in a short span of time than a bumbling, well-meaning democracy, at the cost of the lives of a few million people, like China did. Both our countries have a tremendous baggage of history, culture, etc (more so with India, where language, religion, region and caste can create a socity that can behave extremely fragmented at times…I dont expect westerners to understand this). What I do feel is that whatever progress India has made is despite the government’s best efforts But The ethos that justified the taking of these lives for the cost of progress just cannot be found in India - we here are far too soft for that stuff. This is a weakness, for sure. We call ourselves cultured and civilised, but I think its a great credit to a civilisation that it can make certain ‘sacrifices’ for a better tomorrow - this has happened everywhere in the developed world. The test for India will be to develop a model that works without the strings from the top or the human sacrifices. 295
Posted by shiva on June 04, 2010, 01:54 AM | # As for the empire and faustian deal with the devil, I think its about time some superpowers or semi-superpowers developed in the east. I believe its finally our time to shine, and no one can take that away from us (except ourselves!) This may also work out to the West’s advantage - it will definitely lessen the hordes of brownies and chinks that flood your gates! 296
Posted by shiva on June 04, 2010, 02:51 AM | # Let me add an additional post on an unrelated topic. I have long been fascinated by western culture and psyche. In the thoughts of most Americans, and particularly Brits that I have met (not to mention the movies), there is an almost self-destructive quality. Self-destructive in the sense of a definite lack of respect/concern for the social mores and thoughts, a quality of deadly sarcasm/unconcern towards established practices. This may just be the manifestation of youth (or booze!), or the characteristics of a society that places the individual above the collective - I do not know, but I wont deny that I was thrilled in a way, as this was something new and exciting to me. But it bothers me when the western media denounces the efforts of other socities to preserve their culture and tradition. Eg - in the recent case homosexuality case in Malawi, the government’s decision was denounced in all the western magazines that I read. Contrast this to the Indian responses to the article in newspapers, which ranged from mild surprise to agreement with the court’s ruling. Similarly, when the Iranians fight hard to preserve their culture (I dont agree with most of Islam’s ideals or methods, let me say) it is looked down on in the west. Certainly, a sort of cultural imperialism is still prevalent, where the west is trying to impose its own cultural mores on others. Let me put it this way - homosexuality was a non-topic in India until very recently, until certain western women took it upon themselves to awaken the Indian masses to it. Completely uncalled for, imho. 297
Posted by Jai nahin ho ga on June 06, 2010, 04:22 PM | # How can Indians have a higher IQ when the majority of them have minds that are filled with thoughts of jealousy, hate, greed, selfishness, inferiority complex, false pride, conceit and sexual pervasion (due to being sexually frustrated)? Let’s be honest. Most Indians today lack the ability of critical though and self reflection. Both of which are essential elements for any civilization to strive furthur and expand it’s horizons. Boasting about how many Indian doctors, engineers, scientists, academics, CEOs and billionaires in other countries is nothing to be super proud over. Rather it is a reflection on what an abysmal place, India is to live in for the vast majority of Indians. Who can only dream of settling abroad, in any country where there is a superior standard of living. The proof of this is that Indians have now overtaken the Chinese as the largest group of immigrants settling in other countries around the world. While many Chinese people have and are returning to China to seek opportunities. As are a lot of foreigners who are going to China nowadays to seek opportunities. For business, and increasingly for employment. Though the latter group of foreigners going to China nowadays is not yet as large as the former group, it is growing steadily. Just as in ancient times, Rome was a magnet for people seeking opportunities. America became the Rome of present times, until recently. Now China is showing strong signs of becoming the next Rome. Could this have been achieved if Chinese people didn’t have the superior IQ? Do Indians, with their primitive and superstitious culture, honestly think they have the cerebral power to make India (with all it’s filth, corruption, uncouthness and general disregard for order and discipline), into a place where not just Indians but also foreigners would like to live in? Rather the opposite is true for India. All those Indians who dispute the veracity of the results of the IQ survey, should ask themselves the questions in the paras above. 298
Posted by IndiaCynic on June 06, 2010, 05:16 PM | # Shiva, enough gabbing. India is awesome paradise. We all agree. Now lets start working for it. No? Most Indians want 9-5 jobs and easy jacks up their professional careers preferrably through bribes and personal favours. You would all but admit that man to man indians need to match up to the chinese, you would rather retreat into obscurantism for your own consumption or of others that it is so because of their Communist government. Maybe. But have you considered that Taiwan, the other Chinese country, is also 1st world, unlike say Pakistan or Bangladesh, the other ‘Indian’ countries. I guess it makes me obsequois to speak the truth. I don’t care anymore, its just frustrating living around so many mediocre, dishonest gasbags (except the southerners who deserve a new beginning, if you know what I mean) who don’t want to introspect and correct their shortcomings. Don’t fret about this so much, every post by a Chinese backer doesn’t have to be met by a counter post to prop up the dignity of your famed land whether here or on the businessworld comments section. Some day the people here will come over the Bollywood curtain and find out the truth, when this comment together with yours would probably have vanished into irrelevance and obscurity. But what will remain are the tangible realities. 299
Posted by AriyaMagga on June 13, 2010, 05:55 PM | # Indians have higher SAT scores than Chinese do, Indians are also better at English, Indians also achieve more than the Chinese do in the US Average IQ is irrelevant and doesn’t matter since with a population of a billion+ gathering accurate IQ data is difficult. 300
Posted by theOneWithoutASecond on June 13, 2010, 05:56 PM | # India’s average IQ thing is BS Here’s the average IQ in the US: Indians are much smarter than the Chinese in terms of science and mathematics, that’s why India has produced better mathematicians and physicists than China has in the last centuries. India produced physicist Satyendra Nath Bose who made some of the most important contributions in physics with Einstein-Bose condensate. He’s ranked as one of the greatest physicist in history. There’s no Chinese physicist who’s made any contribution as significant as Satyendra Nath Bose alone in the last century. India produced the self-taught prodigy genius mathematician Ramanujan. Ramanujan was poor, uneducated, living far away from other mathematicians, and malnourished but had an innate ability for mathematics that according G.H. Hardy surpassed even the famous mathematician David Hilbert. Some of Ramanujan’s methods are used for string theory mathematics today as well as other things. There’s no Chinese mathematician who even comes close to matching up to Ramanujan. When mathematicians list the top ten best mathematicians of all time Ramanujan usually makes the list, but NO Chinese mathematician ever makes the list of even the top 25 mathematicians in all of time. There’s probably lots of other Indians like Ramanujan but because of poverty they remain unknown, Ramanujan almost remained unknown to world because of poverty. Since Indians contributed more to science and mathematics this indicates that not only are Indians smarter but also more creative, and everybody knows that creativity matters more to the growth of science than answering IQ test questions, and that creativity is a higher form of intelligence. India’s economy is also growing faster. The only thing the Chinese do is mimic and copy because although they may have high IQs they have no creativity. IQ without creativity is useless to society. India’s history, culture, spirituality indicates that Indians also have more creativity. 301
Posted by Madarchod Indians on June 13, 2010, 08:38 PM | # Indians always boast about how well Indians are doing in the US. How come Indians aren’t smart enough to make India do well, if Indians are really that smart? Indians are only good at utilizing and consuming what others produce, but don’t produce anything themselves. They always wait for others to create prosperous and developed societies first. Then they migrate to those societies enmasse, in order to exploit the opportunities created by the people of that society. Indians are only smart enough to prosper through what others initiate, but are unable to initiate anything themselves. Thats why India is a dirt poor shithole that is only good at producing immigrants who don’t want to live in their own country. 302
Posted by IndiansAreSmart on June 13, 2010, 09:27 PM | # 25% of India represents the top highest IQs, meaning India has more honor students than America has students. People here don’t even know what the word “average” means mathematically, it doesn’t mean most people. Economies change from time to time and don’t necessarily reflect intelligence, just look at places like Ukraine and Russia with bad economies. Everybody knows that East Indians are smart, seriously, the smartest boy in the world Pranav Veera is East Indian with an IQ of 176 at only age 6 Even poor Indians without an education or good health like Ramanujan end up being the best mathematicians rivaling Euler and Gauss. 303
Posted by Drifter on June 14, 2010, 02:12 PM | # I looked up the Fields medalist (often regard as the Nobel prize of Mathematics) and didn’t see a single Indian or people of Indian heritage made to the list. Enough said. 304
Posted by Troll Detector on June 14, 2010, 03:13 PM | # Hey “IndiansAreSmart” - If you all really are so “smart”, then please stay in your own country—since your backward, primitive and highly unintelligent fellow countrymen (who are the absolute majority of India) need you far more than we do. Otherwise you are an envious, mendacious hypocrite. 305
Posted by Kulak on June 14, 2010, 03:22 PM | # Would many of you non-Whites PLEASE STOP using this blog to take out your obsessive and envious self-hatred against us White Americans here. This is our blog, and this is our home. Isn’t it enough that you all have virtually the rest of our country at your disposal to manipulate and exploit—cannot us real Americans and real Westerners have even a stinkin blog where we can be left alone. 306
Posted by IndiansAreSmart on June 14, 2010, 10:10 PM | # @TrollDetector / disgusting racist Why didn’t Europeans stay in their own country and instead come to America then? By your own reasoning all the European immigrants are all hypocrites, envious, and mendacious then right? History shows Europeans immigrated the most. By the way those people like Satyendra Nath Bose and Ramanujan were in India not America or any European country. History shows that people travel, migrate, and that economies change from time to time dummy. Economies don’t remain constant but are unsteady and ever-changing unlike what these foolish racists really believe. They’re so funny with their foolishness. Prior to the British coming to India India had a much better economy that’s why Columbus was trying to travel to India. After the British fucked it up it’s terrible now and only starting to recover, but India’s economy is starting to grow faster now and recover. It’s only been in these short 400-years that the primitive unintelligent Europeans have been ruling, they were so primitive that the highest technology Anglo-Saxons and Nordics ever independently came up with was cave paintings so they traveled all over the world and raped, killed, and stole information from everyone else. Whenever the environmental factors and socioeconomic factors are the same Indians perform better than the Chinese and European, why is this? The only way Europeans and Chinese can appear superior is by gaining an unfair environmental advantage. I understand that you’re foolish so you probably don’t even know that science or a control is. Gaining IQ data of different races in different countries, different education levels, different school systems, different environments, different socioeconomic backgrounds, etc…isn’t controlled data and therefore can be influenced by any number of factors or variables. Gaining IQ data of different races in the same country, same environment, same school system, etc…is more reliable and controlled. But I don’t expect that you would be able to understand this. Studies have also shown that IQ and financial success have no correlation, “Being more intelligent does not confer any advantage along two of the three key dimensions of financial success (income, net worth and financial distress)” - Zagorsky You didn’t refute any statement I made you just spread racist hatred, tell lies and feel bad the smartest boy in the world Pranav Veera is East Indian Oh yeah without Indians you would still be using shitty Roman Numerals and have no concept of zero, and many mathematics, scientific, and engineering advancements would’ve never been made without those things alone. The Arab Al-Khwarizmi had to introduce numerals to world in his book “On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals” Arabs, Chinese, Europeans, etc…all copied off from Indians as history shows, so many English words come from Sanskrit, the numeric system, the number zero, and many other things are directly copied 307
Posted by Kulak on June 15, 2010, 01:22 AM | # Oh yeah without Indians you would still be using shitty Roman Numerals and have no concept of zero, and many mathematics, scientific, and engineering advancements would’ve never been made without those things alone. The Arab Al-Khwarizmi had to introduce numerals to world in his book “On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals” Idiot, that was when the “Indians” were still (largely unmixed) Indo-European Aryans, not the little brown people they are today (and why they are a disgusting third world country). Buzz off you envious third world jerk. 308
Posted by Troll Detector on June 15, 2010, 01:46 AM | # Why didn’t Europeans stay in their own country and instead come to America then? By your own reasoning all the European immigrants are all hypocrites, envious, and mendacious then right? History shows Europeans immigrated the most. ... No you arrogant twirp, America is a European-diaspora land—a country built and sustained by and for White Europeans—and especially Northern European Anglo-Celts. How dare you put non-Whites in the same category! Non-Whites are here for one thing and one thing only - to exploit and manipulate off the backs of White Americans. You people cannot create anything with substance without a White man around and supervising it all, (just like it was British and American engineers that took those “intelligent” Arabs out of their Bedouin tents in the early seventies and built up mega-cities in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and UAE for them) This is why you all want to immigrate into White countries, cause no matter how (putitively) “smart” your comparatively small racial elites are (most of whom have Indo-Aryan blood), most of you all are really not that intelligent, on average, especially in India. That is why nearly all of India is rather backward and primitive. Indians Aren’t That Intelligent (On Average) Oh yeah without Indians you would still be using shitty Roman Numerals and have no concept of zero, and many mathematics, scientific, and engineering advancements would’ve never been made without those things alone. The Arab Al-Khwarizmi had to introduce numerals to world in his book “On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals” Amazing as well when you guys cite (supposed) non-White “brilliance” it is always from examples many, many centuries ago. ;} 309
Posted by Cod Liver Oil on June 15, 2010, 01:54 AM | # I found some thing which is also between India and China. This time it is not about IQ but about border issue. Listen to this podcast: http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/podcasts/India_China_Border.mp3 Interesting stuff. 310
Posted by IndiaCynic on June 15, 2010, 04:14 AM | # IndiansAreSmart, You are typical and embarassing with the superficial desi arrogance and lack of depth and breadth of understanding. Kindly stop embarassing those of us who would like to be known as more modest and circumspect. Because of people like you our entire group is labelled as gabby, boastful, loud-mouthed underachievers. You obviously need to learn what the Han have invented, practical devices to the factor of 10x more than anything that came out of desi land. There is simply no argument. Hell we could not even build lasting structures, there is no Indian equivalent of the engineering feat that is the Great Wall. (The grandest Indian structures are either Mughal or British) I can’t think of any ancient solid (not abstract) Indian invention that is not a bogus Hindutva invention and is relevant to the modern world. (Note - be careful not to post bogus things like Chess, before verifying where it was actually invented) If you are a Hindu like me you would know that the Puranas teach that there are four oceans - one made of curd, another of ghee, one of sugary water and some other ridiculous condiment whose name I can’t recall. Please go through the list - Lets move out of historical evidence. The empirical evidence suggest Chinese in exile do better than overseas Indians and have built countries like Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I am not even counting post-Chinese ethnicities like the Koreans and the Japanese. China’s space and defence program is much ahead of India (India hasn’t created a functioning tank or fighter plane after decades of ‘research’) and the Chinese win more medals (5 times more) in the math, physics olympiads and programming competitions. What other proof do you need to see the truth unless you are blind to it. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, this is what Charles’ Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton(who knew Indians and Chinese well) had to say: “The Hindoo cannot fulfil the required conditions nearly as well as the Chinaman, for he is inferior to him in strength, industry, aptitude for saving, business habits, and prolific power.” On the Chinese he said: “The Chinese emigrants possess an extraordinary instinct for political and social organization; they contrive to establish for themselves a police and internal government, and they give no trouble to their rulers so long as they are left to manage those matters by themselves. They are good-tempered, frugal, industrious, saving, commercially inclined, and extraordinarily prolific. “ Well you might still want to argue about other things but you know deep down in your desi heart that ‘good tempered’ and ‘industrious’ are not adjectives that can in general be used to describe desis. Even granted that the Indians are of similar intelligence as the Chinese, the other ‘soft factors’ are overwhelmingly against us. Instead of GABBING and BOASTING on the internet we must be pulling up our socks and working till our eyes bleed but alas, most Indians dream of a 9 to 5 GOVERNMENT JOB. 311
Posted by antikulak on June 15, 2010, 02:31 PM | # Idiot, that was when the “Indians” were still (largely unmixed) Indo-European Aryans, not the little brown people they are today (and why they are a disgusting third world country). A simplicity of concept almost as stupid as the little brown people’s belief in “Out of India”. 312
Posted by IndiansAreSmarter on June 17, 2010, 03:07 AM | # If you fools want to get destroyed by me, then continue replying and I’ll easily embarrass you @Drifter But given the intelligence of these posters I doubt any of you know who even Euler or Gauss is or what even mathematicians do. Most here probably didn’t even know that Newton was a mathematician lol…they probably saw on TV an apple falling and thought that was all Newton did lol, that’s the “common” intelligence. BTW to the dumb Chinese talking about the “International Mathematical Olympiad” no real mathematician cares about that contest, you can ask one if you want. When people look at the history of mathematics the “International Mathematical Olympiad” is never mentioned. It’s a joke to mathematicians. Being able to solve mathematical problems that have already been solved in the past has nothing to do with being a mathematician. What mathematicians care about is contributions, finding new proofs, solving conjectures, new notations,theorems, formulas, results etc…not solving problems that have already been solved in the past. But that’s all Chinese can do, solve math problems that have already been solved since they have no creativity, mimic what’s already been done. Every mathematician and historian knows that the Indians contributed much more to mathematics than the Chinese ever have. “Euler and Ramanujan are mathematicians of the greatest importance in the history of constants (and of course in the history of Mathematics ...)” - E. W. Middlemast “We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made” - Albert Einstein “It is India that gave us the ingenious method of expressing all numbers by the means of ten symbols, each symbol receiving a value of position, as well as an absolute value; a profound and important idea which appears so simple to us now that we ignore its true merit” - Pierre Simon Laplace @Kulak What a fuckin idiot. DNA testing shows that Indians were mixed throughout history dumbass. Where’s your evidence that they were “unmixed” Indo-European Aryan in the past? Oh wait you have none, just embarrassingly wrong claims. I doubt that the best Indian mathematician Ramanujan was a “pure Aryan” being from Erode, Tamil Nadu, India. The word “Arya” or “Ariya” (in pali) was never defined as a physical race, it had only meant “Noble” or “Noble One” in Sanskrit and Pali texts. If it’s genetic then what’s the reason that ancient Northern Europeans (who have relatively the same genetic make up as modern ones) didn’t have any writing systems, science, or mathematics? Ancient Greek writers made fun of Northern Europeans as pale barbarians. They were just cave people. That’s why Northern Europeans never like talking about history prior to the 1400s, because they have none. @TrollDetector That’s right, Europeans immigrated from Europe to non-European regions. Europeans just don’t want to stay in their own fuckin continent. They want to immigrate then tell other people you’re not allowed to immigrate, lol. Why would you move out of Europe if you wanted to only be among Europeans? There’s lots of European countries that have populations that are nearly 100% white, why not just get the fuck out and help bad economy all-white European countries like Ukraine out? History shows us that Europeans wouldn’t be anywhere without Arabs, Indians, and the Chinese. So if you wanted to be independent of all cultures or whatever then go back to not having writing systems, mathematics, science or technology just like the ancient barbaric German tribes did. The only thing found in Nordic and Anglo-Saxon areas are cave paintings. In all those 20,000+ years that’s all the Northern Europeans ever came up with, it took the Aztecs only 200 years to build a civilization that rivaled Rome, but in 20,000 years the dumb North Europeans couldn’t do anything. Thank the Southern (less Aryan) Europeans for migrating upwards for you ungrateful Northerners. Amazing as well when you guys cite (supposed) non-White “brilliance” it is always from examples many, many centuries ago. ;} Yeah because Ramanujan, J.C. Bose, and Satyendra Nath Bose are from ancient times…oh wait they’re not. You can go back to using Roman Numerals or Chinese numerals if you want. I wonder why all the great advancements in science, mathematics, and engineering only came about after the use of the Hindu numeral system and not prior… @IndianCynic Hey fool, the only one embarrassing yourself is you. I didn’t claim Indians were better engineers than the Chinese dumbass, so where did you get that idea from? Indians contributed more to science and mathematics than the Chinese, but the Chinese contributed more to engineering. You people here sure don’t understand anything about history, science, engineering, or mathematics do you? You probably think engineering and science are the same thing, lol. The reason why the Chinese contributed more to engineering is because it was in Chinese culture to build labor saving devices. Indians never had that culture of building machines, so they didn’t, but they were certainly intellectually capable of, the ancient Harappa piping system was only surpassed in the 19th century. Even though the Chinese had the population advantage and the culture advantage because the Chinese have no creativity the Europeans came and surpassed them easily within a few years in engineering. You would think with such a high population and having gunpowder first the Chinese would’ve done more. The Sicilian Archimedes, the Greek Hero of Alexendria and the Arab al-Jazari were all better engineers than the Chinese were by far. The Chinese writing system is one of the most inefficient in the world, you need a million characters instead of just a few letters. China’s IQ on IQLeague.com is only 92, so I doubt the Chinese really have the high average IQ. The Chinese have the highest population in the world, a much better economy than India, lower poverty rates, better education, and supposedly the IQ, so why aren’t the best physicists and mathematicians in the world Chinese? Given the population advantage, environmental advantage, and supposed IQ advantage you would think the Chinese would’ve contributed much more to physics and mathematics, but they didn’t. Indians with the economical disadvantage and supposed IQ disadvantage still contributed more than the Chinese. This is because the Chinese have no creativity, they’re just like robots. The way you measure contributions to science and mathematics isn’t who wins awards and competitions that have nothing to do with the growth of science or mathematics fool. No one cares about that, people in real life care about contributions not how many awards someone has, Einstein didn’t even get an award for general relativity, but which physicist cares? The way you measure contributions is by looking at history to see who contributed more to mathematics and science, and Indians, Arabs, and Europeans definitely did contribute more to mathematics and science than the Chinese ever have. The entire world uses the Hindu numeral system no one wants to use Roman Numerals or Chinese numerals. Bose-Einstein condensate is one of the biggest contributions to physics. The Ramanujan partition theory is used by computer scientists, Ramanujan’s other methods are used for the string theory, Ramanujan’s theorems and notebooks are studied by mathematicians. When you look back history at the greatest scientists and mathematicians you see some Indians and Arabs but nearly no Chinese. Chinese contributed more to inventing and engineering than to science and mathematics, although J.C. Bose did contribute to engineering with wireless communication. Then you talk about the Puranas indicating you understand nothing about Indian philosophy or religion. There’s no religion called “Hindu” in Sanskrit or Pali. I don’t know which part of the Puranas mention oceans of ghee or whatever but that’s never mentioned by Krsna or in the Upanishads. I do know that the earlier Puranas give the most advanced definition of God in comparison to Judeo-Christian religions. The earlier Puranas are the only religious texts that mentions atoms and multiple universes, they also use the accurate analogy of multiple universes being like particles of dust blowing the sky, which is amazingly similar to the bubble analogy used by modern day physicists. They also claim that the number of universes is greater than the number of atoms in the universe, which again fits into modern physics. They give the advanced definition of God being beyond sense perception, the origin of infinite universes, smaller than the atom, and the world being like an illusory dream. Some of the very best biggest physicists were actually Vedantists, like J. Robert Oppenheimer. “It is curious that people like Schroedinger, Niels Bohr, and Oppenheimer were Upanishad scholars” - Wheeler Then you talk about Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc….but Singapore is a mixed country and 42.5% Buddhist. Other countries with higher Chinese populations than Singapore aren’t doing as well as Singapore, why is this? I don’t know what empirical evidence you’re talking about, but a lot of economic forecasters are now saying India’s economy will be better than China’s in the future. India is still dealing with Muslims, poverty, illiteracy, poor education, and other nonsense. There are many many countries that don’t have a national defense as strong as India’s. India’s Air Force is the 4th largest in the world. Then you mentioned shitty awards again, but people in real life don’t care about awards, Einstein didn’t get an award for general relativity, James Clerk Maxwell didn’t get an award for electromagnetic theory, but who cares? Then you use lame quotes from hundreds of years ago when DNA and atoms didn’t even exist in science. “During the mutual exchanges between the two civilizations in the past, although certain Chinese technologies and inventions contributed to Indian civilization, in general, especially in spiritual terms, it was mainly China that learned from India. In one thousand years or so, India was China’s teacher. Chinese people will never forget that” - Mao Siwei Then you try to talk about desi’s not being described as good tempered or whatever. But I’m only responding to hatred from the Chinese and Europeans. The Chinese hate on India much more and the Europeans and Chinese have historically been much more cruel and ill-tempered. The Greek philosopher Apollonius borrowed a lot of peaceful philosophy from India as did the Chinese. The only thing I know deep down is that you just sound like another dumb brainwashed white suck up. 313
Posted by Kulak on June 17, 2010, 04:22 AM | #
What a fuckin idiot. DNA testing shows that Indians were mixed throughout history dumbass. Where’s your evidence that they were “unmixed” Indo-European Aryan in the past? Oh wait you have none, just embarrassingly wrong claims.
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Posted by Kulak on June 17, 2010, 04:37 AM | # Here is some more evidence, your Indian highness -
Remember, dude, this is still Our blog, and your just a guest. 315
Posted by Troll Detector on June 17, 2010, 09:26 AM | # Yeah because Ramanujan, J.C. Bose, and Satyendra Nath Bose are from ancient times…oh wait they’re not. You can go back to using Roman Numerals or Chinese numerals if you want. I wonder why all the great advancements in science, mathematics, and engineering only came about after the use of the Hindu numeral system and not prior… Well well well, the arrogant Indian racist is getting even more arrogant and racist. Now he comes to this blog with the handle “Indiansaresmarter” rather than just “smart”. Look here, I don’t give a damn about how supposedly “smart” a few Indians are in that disgusting “country” you call “India”. Only an extremely insecure little brown desi beta-nerd like yourself cares about that stuff. Again, if some of you really are supposedly intelligent, you would want to stay in your God-forsaken country helping out your co-ethnics rather than bragging and boasting to White men, on a White “racist” blog, no less! Nah, your too typical of most little Indians that I have encountered in the West: spoiled, arrogant and mommy-pampered desis to the core. In fact, no other race or ethnic group really respects you, since all you people are are exploiters and interlopers, as well as some of the greediest people on the planet. That’s right, Europeans immigrated from Europe to non-European regions. Europeans just don’t want to stay in their own fuckin continent. They want to immigrate then tell other people you’re not allowed to immigrate, lol. Why would you move out of Europe if you wanted to only be among Europeans? There’s lots of European countries that have populations that are nearly 100% white, why not just get the fuck out and help bad economy all-white European countries like Ukraine out? The bottom line is America (and the Rest of the West) is a White Man’s Country and Civilization, built by him and for him. We did just fine without all you (supposedly) “smart” Indians before the 1965 third world immigration invasion—and we will do just fine without you. Whites envisioned and built America—Indians and other non-Whites came to a great nation that was already built. You are not my co-ethnic—and I am not your co-ethnic—hence we will never be able to live in the same nation or territory together (Good Lord, you guys can’t even properly get along with other castes and sub-races in your own country). Nor do I especially wish to have you or other Indians, Asians or any other non-Whites in my country taking away precious resources from me, my family, and any of my co-ethnic Northern Europeans, who are my People—especially our jobs and dipping into our collective wealth in this awful economic downturn. It is not yours or any other brown person’s “right” to come to this or any other majority-White country. 316
Posted by Troll Detector on June 17, 2010, 09:47 AM | # Here is a classic example of the pampered desi beta-boy nerds falling for and believing their own lies and ethnic cheerleaders:
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Posted by IndiansAreDumbest on June 17, 2010, 09:22 PM | # Indians are the stupidest dumbfukkers in the world. They only know how to talk junk and make junk. Including mass reproduction of ugly and smelly turdskin babies. Buy a Tata Nano and see first hand what Indian innovation is really like. The friggin shitbox the Indians call a car will burst into flames the moment the ignition is turned on. You ugly dotheads should show some real smartness by making your own country into a decent place to live in, so that you all ugly dotheads don’t need to wash up on everybody else’s country like overflowing sewerage. But no, all you ‘smart’ Indians can do is make a shithole out of any country that you populate. Your own country is the world’s biggest shithole where the majority of the people don’t even own a toilet to do their shit in. Heres proof: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&refer=exclusive @IndiansAreSmarter (or Dumber) Read the article, you rat worshipping, cow pee drinking muddafukka. Stop your empty bragging and read the article first. Indians like you are so smart, that you haven’t even invented the toilet in your country. India sure will overtake China and the rest of the world in open defecation. 318
Posted by IndiansAreDumbest on June 17, 2010, 09:27 PM | # India sure will overtake China and the rest of the world in open defecation. Sorry about the sentence. What I really mean’t to say was: India already leads the whole world in open defecation. 319
Posted by Lurker on June 17, 2010, 11:19 PM | #
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Posted by IndiaCynic on June 18, 2010, 02:56 PM | # Wow Kulak is quoting a trip blog, probably his own, to make tall, bogus claims. Don’t know if its stupidity or vanity, maybe its both. “Some of the very best biggest physicists were actually Vedantists, like J. Robert Oppenheimer.” Read some opinions of the peers of Robert Oppenheimer who associate his relative lack of achievement compared to his prodigious intelligence to his irrational oriental beliefs. If you are trying to establish primal superiority of the Vedas then lets talk of it as a whole and not selectively. The who Yajur Veda is nothing but a compilation of magical spells and voodoo for warding off ghosts and snake venom. Infact 90% of the Vedas is nothing but a product of a dark age imagination terrified of the vast unknown. In that it is no different from most ancient religious texts. You do get some gems like the Bhumi Sukta and the atheistic sentiment expressed in the Rg Veda but sublime as they are, they are statistically quite probable for such a vast piece of literature and nothing to justify an exemplary status for the whole body of work. “but a lot of economic forecasters are now saying India’s economy will be better than China’s in the future.” Take them with a punch of salt and curry. That is what those ‘Times of India’ surveys are worth. No credible economist without a motivated agenda would bet on Indian economy ‘bettering’ China’s in the future. I live in India, and have been to China, and I can call it for what it is - bs. “Indians never had that culture of building machines, so they didn’t, but they were certainly intellectually capable of, the ancient Harappa piping system was only surpassed in the 19th century.” India didn’t have a culture of wearing stitched clothes either (look it up). Women of the lower castes used to roam around with their breasts exposed in ancient times. Even the Royals imported Persian ways of court including drapering. Looks like India didn’t have a culture for anything scientifically refined - just study the coins minted during the Mauryan and Gupta empire, and compare them to what the Bactrian barbarians minted. Forget machining, there is not much proof of Indian craftsmanship either. “Even though the Chinese had the population advantage and the culture advantage because the Chinese have no creativity the Europeans came and surpassed them easily within a few years in engineering.” This sounds similar to what parents of underachieving kids tell their peers “Bhupinder may not be as smart as his Li but he is CREATIVE” which means exactly what it is - more BS. I am not going to argue over these imponderable straw mans, just look at the number of scientific Patents filed by China compared to India and figure it out. “You would think with such a high population and having gunpowder first the Chinese would’ve done more.” I have the same question for India. 5000 years of civilization, huge population, immense wealth and nothing to show for material achievement ? “It is curious that people like Schroedinger, Niels Bohr, and Oppenheimer were Upanishad scholars” - Wheeler Yes, scientists tend to be well read and posessing contrarian natures. Orientalism was the in fashion and Occidentalism was out. What is your point ? They took bhaang and did jaap and saw the wave equation in some sort of epiphany ? You have an immature grasp of complex ideas. You can’t see that there is no correlation between them being great scientists and their interests. You just extrapolate quotations to suit your agenda and fill the gaps in your inferiority complex. Not a very high IQ trait and quite typical. Out of curiousity, are you Punjabi? “They give the advanced definition of God being beyond sense perception, the origin of infinite universes, smaller than the atom, and the world being like an illusory dream. “ Which part of scientific fact are you trying to corroborate with such statements. That God exists? World is like an illusionary dream? “Then you mentioned shitty awards again, but people in real life don’t care about awards, Einstein didn’t get an award for general relativity” When Indian americans win the spelling bee chest thumpers like you are all over the internet crapping on discussion boards claiming Indian superiority, but Math, Physics olympiad and programming contests dominated by the Chinese are ‘shitty’ achievement. Very convenient, typically Indian behavior. And put the Mao’s comment in perspective dude, it just shows how modest the Chinese are. We could learn a lot imbibing that trait. I have met several Chinese, and most don’t hate on India, they just don’t think much of it. Who can blame them? They beat us at war, and do beat us at everything including the atheltic and math olympics. We look down upon Nepalis in India don’t we? Why do we do that, Nepal was historically never conquered by us, and never even conquered by the mighty British, while we were. Then how do you expect the White and the Chinese who beat us at war to give us respect? You don’t demand respect, you work silently and command it. You don’t see the Chinese arguing on boards or pimpin their achievements but all thinking people know what they have achieved. 321
Posted by Wuddat on June 18, 2010, 09:59 PM | # Indians sure have the gift of brag. Even supposedly leading figures of Indian society, such as industrialists and military officers are not immune from making astronomical claims that always turn out to be a lot of hot air. Back in 2005, one of India’s leading captains of industry, Mukesh Ambani made a boastful claim about India overtaking China in GDP growth by 2007. Well, it’s now 2010 and three years past Ambani’s boastful deadline of overtaking China, but not only has this prediction not come true, China’s lead over India has widened furthur. China’s economy is now 4 times larger than India’s and still growing at about 20-22% faster than India. Another example of Indian mindless bragging was done by former chief of Indian army, Gen. Deepak Kapoor. Who boastfully claimed about the Indian army being capable of fighting both China and Pakistan together and winning in 5 days. This boast was ridiculed by the Americans. Indians have a habit of putting their foot into their big mouths and not feel any shame. This says a lot about IndiansAreSmart’s boastful claims of Indian’s “superior intellect”. 322
Posted by IndiaCynic on June 19, 2010, 03:06 AM | # Wuddat, One mistake Indians and Chinese make in judging each other is thinking of each other as homogenous entities. Indians don’t realize how diverse the Chinese are, and the Chinese to a lesser extent are not aware of Indian diversity. South Indians for example tend to be circumspect, hard working people, in many ways they are quite similar to the Chinese. The north Indians, those from the north-west regions especially tend to have vulgar prole mentalities and can make some of the worst gasbags. Deepak Kapoor for example, is a Hindu Punjabi name. Several North Indian communities don’t have any concept of shame. They lack any discipline to observe civic rules and have no concept of ‘saving face’. Corrupt officials and land mafia are the role models in these societies which says a lot. They kill girl babies in the womb by the thousands and believe in caste superiority to this day. You will rarely find an Indian scientist from these northern parts. They have anger management and alcohol abuse issues, are racist, sexist, devious and prone to law-breaking. Sometimes I think its all because of the barbarian blood mixing. Maybe we should have built a Great Wall along the Khyber to preserve all that was dear. 323
Posted by IndiaCynic on June 20, 2010, 02:01 PM | #
I think the American baby boomer generation was a golden harvest any country will be lucky to reap. The boomers were hard working, competitive and enterprising. But their success bred a degree of confidence that immigrants could never really pose a threat to their success. I agree with your concern, which are prudent and well-meaning for your people, no natives in any part of the world would like being supplanted by immigrants, especially those who refuse to let go of their roots and integrate into a way of life. It is a broad two way street. The movement of immigrants from India has been hurtful for India in the long run. It might have brought us rich foreign reserves and short term economic gain but will hurt our future. By a rough analog of the Pareto principle the wealthiest will decide the future of this country’s polity. Though many Indians from the high-tech and medical professions constitute the ‘smart-set’ a majority of the student population will be well to do upper caste elite who are buying their way out of the ruthless competition for education and privileges back in India. They are typically posessed of ancestral land handouts and corrupt officials/politicians in the family who have hoarded enough wealth to buy their American tickets as a shortcut to wealth and ‘status’. They feed back dollars into their little family mob businesses back in India and pull strings using their local indian contacts to keep the common, honest hard working man under their yoke. The US dollar=48 Rs, so by making them richer you are doing both your nation, and the third world a great injustice. Stop this kind of immigration. History is proof that undeserving elite in power rarely abdicate unless they are dislodged. Indian society is seeing a particularly egregious form of this phenomenon. This is the class of immigrants you have to watch out for, not the one selected for intelligence, but brats from rich families carrying an ancestral strain of questionable ethics and sense of entitlement to others’ resources. Beware them. Once you close your doors these undeserving royals will be forced to compete in the Indian education and job market which can be pretty daunting for the untempered by its sheer numbers. It is then that we can see a dislodging of this ‘Brown sahib’ class and the birth of prosperous meritocratic societies in south asia. Both the first and the third world shall benefit from a robust immigration check against such undeserving migrants. 324
Posted by Bollywood on June 20, 2010, 07:27 PM | # @IndiaCynic Very honest and thought provoking input from you, my friend. Below is a link to an interesting article that sheds significant light on the true nature of behind all this Indian “talent” flooding into America. http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5471.shtml Highly recommended reading. 325
Posted by Bollywood on June 20, 2010, 07:37 PM | # As the article shows, the true nature behind all this Indian “talent” flooding into America, began quite a long while back. But gained it’s present avalanche like momentum during the Clinton administration and continues to date. It involves corruption at the highest levels of the US and Indian govts. 326
Posted by Troll Detector on June 21, 2010, 01:36 AM | #
IndiaCynic, I agree, very honest and thought provoking input from you, my friend. I am sorry if I got carried away with my comments—I was just reacting to the haughtiness of the “Indiansaresmart” commenter. With honest men such as yourself, we can all have a frank and intelligent discussion. 327
Posted by KIKUYUVISITOR on July 19, 2010, 08:21 AM | # My,my,my! I actually manged to read all thi shit. My opinions are based on personal observations here in Nairobi where we have a large Indian population and increasingly Chinese immigrants. Yes, I’d agree Indians are good at maths. Better than indigenous Kenyans? Hmmm…..I wish could give an ethnic breakdown based on our mixed African.white,Indian class adjusted for each races’ percentage of class,but I’d have to say no. The smartest guy I ever knew was a fellow Kikuyu.
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3420.shtml 328
Posted by One Indian on July 20, 2010, 03:35 AM | # I usually visit these kind of blogs to get a good laugh. What happens is quite simple:Some Naive Indians boast a lot without much of a clue.But these generate massive inferiority complex in some naive Chinese and Westerners and they try to pull India down.And then the Indians fight back and the cycle continues. Indians are definitely intelligent beings.Being an Indian,I know that.But there is a serious attitude problem in many Indians.The Chinese are much more humble and progress oriented(but they do show off a lot). Not only is the source of this table questionable,it only shows IQ scores from only a few selected Indian regions .Most of the people tested are apparently from the slums of 1950s and 60s. I find it amusing that people are treating IQ as some sort of gold standard of intelligence.IQ scores rise over time with abstract thinking.In fact, if Indian IQ is 82 right now,it would mean that they are cleverer than whites of the time of 2nd world war.This is because of the flynn effect.Those whites are the ones that built nuclear bombs and modern computers. For your information- Lynn’s book has been heavily criticized and most reputable scientists dismiss his work as without any scientific basis.I am surprised that such a book is being used as the holy book in this discussion. There are so many IQ myths that floats around the internet that it has become ridiculous.For example a common myth is that Einstein had an IQ of 160.Which is not true at all because he NEVER took an IQ test.We do know however, that Feynman had an IQ of 122.A 122 back then will be like less than 100 right now.He was a Putnam fellow and a nobel laurette.A putnam fellow is like being a medalist in USA math olympiad,only at undergraduate level. And lastly,there is good genetic evidence that everyone outside of Africa are descendants of a single tiny group of people 60thousand years ago.That makes Indians ,Chinese and Europeans close relatives.So fight all you like ,but it does you no good to fight your own kind. 329
Posted by Tyler Durden on July 20, 2010, 09:01 PM | # Re: One Indian the same old Indian defense mechanism arguments, eh? The author is racist. and of course the success of a few oddball indian CEO’s and scientists is a clear sign that the average indian person is capable of achieving greatness if certain environmental conditions are met. Genetics play no part in the equation, and it’s all environmental. If indians wanted to, they could dominate the olympics with ease, the same goes for any international competition of any sort. 330
Posted by Lurker on July 20, 2010, 11:47 PM | # THe Flynn effect seems to have raised all boats. I doubt there is muh diffeence beteen relative Indian and white IQ between now and WW2. Whites in WW2 managed to come up with enigma enryption machines, computers to decrypt enigma, atomic bombs, computers to help build the A bomb, Mosquito bombers, B-29 bombers, jet engines, jet fighters, V1 cruise missiles, V2 missiles, SONAR, RADAR, helicopters, the MG42 (still in production today). Where is the current wave of Indian innovation? Dicking around with existing (white) products doesnt count, obviously. 331
Posted by Dick Feymann on July 21, 2010, 12:33 PM | # @ One Indian, I doubt Feymann’s IQ is 122. Feymann was a certified goofball and I suspect he was being ‘creative’ when he took the IQ test. 332
Posted by PF on July 21, 2010, 02:56 PM | # http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boXH-YhJp_s&feature=related TD is the best. 333
Posted by A.C is the solution on July 23, 2010, 11:39 AM | # Since cold environment is so crucial for high IQ,we only need to manufacture more ACs.That is going to solve our IQ problem for sure! Think about it,it could be that Indians did not do well in IQ tests because they took those tests in hot weather.Now,if you take those same Indians to cold countries like USA,they do better than any other national group.I mean when you are given to solve puzzles in hot Indian sunlight,you tend to feel disoriented and your brain stops functioning.But now take these Indians to Europe.It’s cold -the brain is working - and Indians are officially geniuses now. So all we need is a few billion ACs.Problem solved!That’s my hypothesis! 334
Posted by kikuyuvisitor on July 27, 2010, 09:30 AM | # I found it! Evidence from a Chinese historian,not an Afrocentrist that Africans pioneered the first Shang dynasty in 1800bc.
http://members.fortunecity.com/jrmoore1959/africapart16.html 335
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 27, 2010, 11:56 AM | # Kikuyuvisitor, that certainly looks like an extremely reliable source you link there, I’m sure we can all put our faith and trust in that. 336
Posted by KIKUYUVISITOR on July 28, 2010, 07:11 AM | # Hmmm….do I detect some subtle snarkiness, Mr.Scrooby? No matter;let me just supply the same info from a site I hope is up to your impeccable standards. I doubt it will make any difference since there is a definite race IQ agenda in your posts,but here goes- do with it as you will.
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-african-foundation-of-china-the-first-chinese/ 337
Posted by Fred Scrooby on July 28, 2010, 08:58 AM | # The theories you cite are hogwash, Kikuyuvisitor, but here’s the real deal, happening right now as we speak: Chinamen, who don’t come from Negroes despite what your Rastafarian blog claims, do run a real risk of turning into them if they’re not careful: http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/02/china-and-interesting-times.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/china-and-interesting-times-part-ii.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/china-and-interesting-times-part-iii.html http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2010/03/has-china-come-to-end-of-history.html 338
Posted by kikuyuvisitor on July 29, 2010, 03:38 AM | # Those are not my theories,but the findings of the most respected archaelogist in his field;though I’m not surprised you’d chose to interpret my post that way. KC Chang’s findings were properly peer reviewed before being accepted and published by YALE PRESS.
If you have personal research invalidating his findings lets hear it-ohh and don’t forget to contact the International Centre For East Asian Archealogy And Cultural History,who I’m sure would be fascinated by your new interpretations of early Chinese human history. 339
Posted by Essence Of truth on September 04, 2010, 08:29 PM | # Indians are culturally and morally superior to whites, any day. Indian culture is more than 5000 year old based on non-violence, peaceful co-existence, respect for the environment, spirituality and Karma, vegetarianism, yoga, good family values and purification of soul. Everything is well documented in Vedas and Puranas, regarding the meaning of life and death, reincarnation and social obligations. While whites were meat munching and kin humping cave dwellers till very recently, they wanna gobble more than they can digest and thats how they are destroying the world, environment and various plant and animal species. They faught more wars than any one else and reduced so many plant and animal species to extinction. Somehow in last few hundred years they went on a rampage spree based on loot, plunder and slavery and accumulated huge wealth and thats why they are proving all wrong is right including injustices and lies with there false propoganda of IQ test scores.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_India 340
Posted by Sikkimese on September 05, 2010, 12:03 AM | # @Essence of Truth, “Indian culture is more than 5000 year old based on non-violence, peaceful co-existence…” Peaceful co-existence? Are you kidding me? Gobbling up a three hundred year old monarchy is peaceful co-existence? http://www.nepalitimes.com.np/issue/35/Nation/9621 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,913029,00.htm http://sikhim.blogspot.com/2009/07/chogyal-palden-thondup-namgyal-with.html 341
Posted by saman on September 12, 2010, 11:12 AM | # the reason for IQ diffrence between indians and chinese is the diversity of indian population being higher than the chinese. indians have some extremely brilliant people but the majority is not.on the other hand chinese may not have the extremely brilliant people but on average less diverse but higher IQ population. 342
Posted by IndiansAreSmarter on September 17, 2010, 10:18 PM | # lol the people here are stupid as fuck….after the IQ fans find out that Richard Feymann’s IQ is only 125 they say it must be a mistake…Feymann wasn’t joking when he took the test it was taken in high school…Henri Poincare’s IQ was also had a low IQ, he failed an IQ test…all IQ measures is how well you can answer IQ test questions…if someone isn’t good at answering IQ test questions then they will NOT get a high IQ score (obviously) Oh yeah the supposed average IQ of 81 for India is guessed and estimated…what a joke but the Europeans and even dumber Chinese wouldn’t know that… “Rather than do their own IQ studies (a potentially massive project), the authors average and adjust existing studies” All the other non-guessed sources don’t show Indians having an average IQ of 81…I wonder why (lol) Chinese worship white people, everywhere you go they always suck up it’s so disgusting, that’s why some Europeans (but only some) like the Chinese, this Chinese guy told me that “China sucked and Europe was the best” I was like damn…they hate themselves The only thing the Chinese can do is mimic and copy and eat dogs and snakes as food. They are really cruel as fuck try to behead students at VA Tech and blow up the Discovery Channel building. They can’t speak English well at all and Indians are much more successful in the US than the Chinese are. Now watch I was ruin the arguments from the other responses… @Wuddat I’m not boasting just stating the facts…Ramanujan really is better than EVERY Chinese mathematician that ever existed and he really was poor and uneducated, self-taught, suffering from malnutrition The simple FACT is: I don’t view the Chinese as any threat intellectually because they only have the ability to mimic and copy everything everyone already did. I view Europeans and Arabs as much smarter. The only way the Chinese can be a threat is if they successfully mimic and copy from someone else, they are really stupid as fuck. I think Africans are waaay smarter than the Chinese because creativity alone matters so much more. @Kulak I’m not saying the Aryan invasion theory is entirely false, but it’s definitely not entirely true. The simple fact is there are no Aryan texts outside of India. Europeans in India were known as mlecchas and the lowest like a dalit. The evidence more strongly points towards migration than invasion, but so what if there was a migration? When people talk about Greek history they don’t start out saying Arabs migrated to Greece and started Greek culture. The Greeks stole writing from the Arabs. The word Aryan means “Noble” that’s why Buddhism is called “Ariya Magga” and Noble Eightfold Path and The Four Noble Truths are called “Ariya” in pali. In the pali canons the Buddha said the Greeks were lower than the Indians because they did not value controlling the mind and meditation like India (or Jambupada as it was called) did. Why didn’t The Buddha call them Aryan? @Troll Detector lol….the only people who respect white people are the Chinese, since the Chinese worship white people, and some Mexicans also worship white people. Other than that the entire world hates white people, even some white historians hate white people. No one besides the Chinese respects white people, especially white people. The simple historical fact is the whites are most hateful cruel race besides the Chinese, just as they are called truly mlecchas, mean-spirited cruel people. Aryan philosophy is the greatest that’s why some Europeans try to falsely claim themselves as Aryan when they are really just mlecchas. White people don’t know shit about history do they? You talk about the US being the “white man’s” land founded by whites for whites even though the founding fathers of the US were libertarians and didn’t put anything in the constitution saying it was for whites only, the reason why immigration laws were overturned was because of the founders’ vision that “all men are created equal”. They didn’t even want immigration laws at all, they truly wanted an entirely free country. So why are you loser white nationalists so against the people who built up America? America was NOT built for whites only. Then you talked about America doing just fine pre-1965 even though during the Great Depression when America was a much much much more white country the economy was much much much worse. You just try to blame all of your own problems on non-whites. Then you tried to mention the hoax that the Indian govt fell too even though anyone can point out so much misinformation that American politicians have fallen to. Mlecchas lose again. Aryan intellect wins. @IndiansAreDumbest lol….white girls are the #1 sluttiest in the world…the top 7 most promiscuous countries are all made up of mostly white European women Lol India won Miss Universe 2 times, China won Miss Universe 0 times, India won Miss World 5 times and China won only 1 time. In the 1700s India had the highest GDP dumbass, higher than China and Europe. One thing whites can’t understand is that economies change from time to time, they’re under the delusion that it remains constant forever. Now after the British Raj ruined everything India is slowly coming back up. Rat worshiping? What a dumb mleccha. “One should meditate on the omniscient, primordial, the controller, smaller than the smallest particle, yet the maintainer of everything; whose form is inconceivable, resplendent like the sun and totally transcendental to material nature” - Bhagavad Gita, 8.9 Why isn’t there any white religion which gives such an advanced definition of God? What do whites have? Norse mythology? LOL what a joke mlecchas are. @IndiaCynic I wasn’t talking about the Vedas fool, why are you mentioning the Vedas? I don’t think the Vedas are even an actual Aryan text. As for the opinion of Robert Oppenheimer by his peers, that’s irrelevant. Newton and Faraday were the most religious scientists much more religious than all of their peers, so what? The fact is Robert Oppenheimer was never raised to be a Hindu he was just attracted to it. Lol the economists that were saying India had an advantage over China were white. Then you changed the subject to something about Indian fashion. The only people who don’t understand how much creativity matters are the IQ fans. Why were so many of the greatest mathematicians, engineers, and physicists people who were uneducated and had low IQs? All IQ measures through Ockham’s razor is how well you can answer IQ test questions. But if IQ matters so much to you then some of the people with the most extremely high IQs are from India but none are from China. BTW my IQ is 140+ but I don’t really care about IQ. According to the studies done, creativity definitely matters fool, but you wouldn’t know anything about studies. You just watch TV and saw some parent say “he’s not smart but he has creativity” then thought “oh that’s what dumb people say”. According to real studies done IQ and Creativity are different. “Initially, military scouts used conventional intelligence tests to identify such candidates. But they soon realized a high IQ was useless in finding inventive superpilots, and they resorted to more anecdotal measures.” - Kraft, 2005 LOL, the number of patents filed by China vs India? Quantity doesn’t matter dumbass, quality does. I’m sure with at least a 600 million educated literate advantage over India the Chinese definitely file more patents than Indians. But quality matters much more. Anyone can file patents for any meaningless idea they have, don’t you know that? If the Chinese really are so creative as you claim then explain why given the supposed IQ advantage and Creativity matters a lot for being a great mathematician, and since the Chinese win so many useless math contests that have to do with mimicking and copying, why aren’t any of the best mathematicians of all time Chinese if they have so much creativity like you claim? Even one of Ramanujan’s formulas, like Ramanujan’s pi formula is worth more to mathematicians and computer scientists than winning the “International Math Olympiad” a 1000 times in a row. Jagadish Chandra Bose is a better engineer than EVERY Chinese engineer that ever existed. That’s just a plain fact. He used 60 GHz frequencies back in the 1890s and was the very first to use the semiconductor junction to detect radio waves. The US actually uses concepts from his original paper even today. “J.C. Bose was at least 60 years ahead of his time” - Nevill Mott Then you mention India’s supposed high population. The only problem is India never had a high LITERATE population. Brahmins forbade others from learning to read similar to what Egyptians did. So India didn’t have a high literate population fool, it just had a high population. Using relevant sources or quotations to support your argument is something done by everyone fool. In fact, you were the one who initially started to use quotes. Now you’re claiming it doesn’t matter and indicates inferiority complex, wtf? Just a sign of someone losing the argument. I didn’t say Indian philosophy was a scientific fact fool, I said it has the very most advanced definition of God that stands up to science. Then you tried to lie and say that I talk about Indians winning awards when I never did nor have. Chinese modest? Look at all the comments of the Chinese making fun of Indians and very few Indians responding back. I always see the Chinese bragging about their achievements all the time, so what are you talking about? Most of the Chinese people I know are either arrogant and mean-spirited or quiet and passive. Mao’s statement was just plain honesty, it’s undeniable that Buddhism originated in India and use to dominate China, and now still dominates Japan. Who cares about gaining respect from racists? Respect will be gained naturally not from trying to suck up like the Chinese do. So I don’t care about these white nationalists losers. @Wuddat lol…I hear a lot more white people being arrogant and claiming that whites are superior dumbass. By saying “IndiansAreSmarter” I was only referring to being smarter than the supposed average IQ of 81. Stupid mlecchas, just like the truth Aryans will always prevail. But there aren’t many Aryans left in India anymore like when Ram ruled only a few now. A lot of Indians have transformed into self-hating fools and definitely don’t know anything about meditation, concentration or the real Aryan philosophy like I and only a few other pure Aryans do. 343
Posted by one on September 17, 2010, 11:15 PM | #
Benjamin Franklin
John Jay
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
Michael Lind, The New American Nation
344
Posted by IndiansAreSmarter on September 18, 2010, 12:35 AM | # @one lol…those quotes don’t come from the US constitution do they? They also have nothing to do with immigration laws but the personal beliefs of people (namely in separation)....The Founding Fathers of the US definitely did not believe in race mixing no doubt about it but they also definitely did not pass absolutely any legislation prohibiting immigration The first immigration LAW came in the 1880s…well really the 1920s….not in the 1780s But if you want to use quotes here’s some other quotes on immigration from the founding fathers of the US: “Those who live under arbitrary power do nevertheless approve of Liberty, and wish for it” - Benjamin Franklin “I hold the right of expatriation to be inherent in every man by the laws of nature, and incapable of being rightfully taken from him even by the united will of every other person in the nation. If the laws have provided no particular mode by which the right of expatriation may be exercised, the individual may do it by any effectual and unequivocal act or declaration.” - Thomas Jefferson “Born in other countries, yet believing you could be happy in this, our laws acknowledge, as they should do, your right to join us in society, conforming, as I doubt not you will do, to our established rules. That these rules shall be as equal as prudential considerations will admit, will certainly be the aim of our legislatures, general and particular” - Thomas Jefferson White Nationalists are living in a fantasy world that the founding fathers were against immigration. They were for one of the most free countries imaginable which socialists, national socialists and white nationalist today are trying to destroy. The bottom line is the founding fathers never tried to have pass a European-only immigration law or anything like that, they just believed in separatism. 345
Posted by one on September 18, 2010, 02:00 AM | #
Franklin wanted to exclude “all Blacks and Tawneys.” Jefferson wanted to deport blacks to Haiti. James Monroe belonged to the American Colonization Society. Lincoln
Johnson
The Constitution
346
Posted by one on September 18, 2010, 02:11 AM | # Focus on a specific doctrine of long ago is a red herring. Wilmot Robertson, The Ethnostate
Wilmot Robertson, Ventilations
347
Posted by Jeff on September 18, 2010, 09:59 PM | # Just watching a video about French were deporting ROMA people. ROMA have been in Europe petty long, why they are still living in isolated camp? The fate of Roma in EU could have some clue why the caste system can last > 3000 years in India. 348
Posted by dave on September 19, 2010, 08:45 AM | # The Roma are also from India, and it seems that their IQ is also very low. 349
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 19, 2010, 11:19 AM | # I copied all three of “one’s” posts, above, for saving in my computer. 350
Posted by IndiansAreSmarter on September 20, 2010, 10:39 AM | # @one….there were no immigration restrictions up until the Page Act of 1875 (which was against the Chinese)....The Founding Fathers of the US placed absolutely no restrictions on immigration at all and definitely did not want any type of immigration law, there were many non-citizens living freely and willingly and founders didn’t do anything about it or try to pass any law or act against it. Thomas Jefferson staunchly believed that immigration was a natural right. Many other European countries had immigration laws and restrictions but America didn’t, America was supposed to be a different, new, free country. The founding fathers wanted most problems people had to be solved without using any type of government force or laws. After US politicians started going against the will of the founders things started falling down and the “free country” called America started to become lost and gone White Nationalists are definitely against libertarianism and the founding fathers, they’re more for left-wing socialism and national socialism, strong regulations, bigger government, regulation of markets, and more government control. And their hero biologist is liberal atheist James D. Watson and increasingly more White Nationalists now are atheists and agnostics or non-religious and 95% of China is atheist. They want the government to restrict and control everything and are trying to ruin the country with their big government national socialist ideals. 351
Posted by JT on September 23, 2010, 08:07 PM | #
I keep reading similar sentiments like this but the facts don’t support this. As many commentators have already pointed out, the Chinese dominate most Science-based competetions like the Math, Physics, Chemistry, Informatics and Biology Olympiad. East asians, as a rule, do very well with westerners close behind. Indians don’t even come close. Even when it comes to computer programming—supposedly, the Indian forte —east asians and westerners still dominate. The thing about these competitions is that they don’t compare the average students of one country with the average students of another; they compare the best and the brightest of one country with the best and the brightest of another. So if India have more—and smarter—high IQ people than China, shouldn’t they do a lot better in these competitions? The argument works a lot better with a country like Russia. Based on Lynn’s book, Russia’s average IQ is no better than most western countries. While Lynn’s research methodololgy may be questionable, other studies suggest that the country’s average performance pretty much falls in line with western averages. And, yet, Russia does very well in international science contests; definitely better than the US in Math and computer programming. While there are other factors to consider—culture, politics, etc—, it does suggest that Russia’s average IQ is pretty much close to western averages but that it has a pretty high number of high IQ people. (Could it be because of its Jewish minority?) India, on the hand, seems to score lower accross the board…whether your comparing averages, top 1% or bottom 1%. 352
Posted by Awards on October 15, 2010, 11:10 PM | # @JT Who cares about competitions that have nothing to do with advancing mathematics or physics or science at all? China does very well when it comes to the most useless, worthless, meaningless competitions that involve answering questions that have already been answered or memorizing and copying rather than contributing and advancing…and China has the very highest literate population in the entire world, more than half a billion more than India and 300 million more than all white people. Winning competitions has to do with who participate and the countries education system. A lot of the best mathematicians and physicists never participated in the IMO or IPO at all. Other countries that have nearly the same genetic make up as China like Hong Kong don’t do nearly as well in competitions. India beat Hong Kong most of the years in the useless IMO Competition even though Hong Kong supposedly has a much higher average IQ than India according to Lynn. Given the fact that China has the highest literate population and wins all the competitions that have to do with answering things that have already been answered we should expect all of the best mathematicians and physicists to be Chinese, but Chinese contributions are disproportionately low for their literate population size. If population size and IQ are not the reason for their disproportionately low contributions then the only reason left is Creativity. About Mathematics Awards… S. R. Srinivasa Varadhan won the Abel Prize in 2007, no Chinese mathematician has ever won the Abel Prize. The Abel Prize is like the Nobel Prize of Mathematics, awarding nearly $1 million USD, and is open to everyone. The Fields Medal prize is not open to everyone, only people under the age of 40, and only awards $15,000 USD. But the work of Indian mathematicians like Chandrashekhar Khare, Manjul Bhargava, Mandhu Sudan, Srinivasa Varadhan, and other Indian mathematicians are just as impressive as any who won the Fields Medal. Manindra Agrawal and Manjul Bhargava won the Clay Research Mathematics Award, only 1 Chinese person has ever won the Clay Research Award, that was Terence Tao. Madhu Sudan won the Rolf Nevanlinna Mathematics Prize, which is nearly the same as the Fields Medal, no Chinese mathematician has ever won the Nevanlinna Prize. Kannan Soundararajan and Manjul Bhargava won the Morgan Prize, no Chinese mathematician won yet. Harish-Chandra and Manjul Bhargava won the Cole Prize, no Chinese mathematician has won the Cole Prize yet. But no one who has won any of these mathematics awards and prizes is as impressive as the legendary mathematicians like Euler, Ramanujan, John von Neumann, Newton, Gauss, Euclid, Archimedes, or any of the other great mathematicians of the past. 353
Posted by dave on October 16, 2010, 05:09 AM | # How can you compare Hong Kong that has only 7 m people and India with 1,2 b people. You obviously don’t understand that the average IQ of population is important for a country to become developed. You cannot have a developed nation if you have a few geniuses and the rest of the population is retarded. And compare the results of 20 million Taiwanese Chinese and 1,2 billion Indians at the Math Olympiad, you Indians can not beat even 20 million Chinese lol. 354
Posted by Crunchy on October 16, 2010, 11:35 AM | # Even Hong Kong, with a population of 7 millions, occasionally beats India at the Math Olympiad. These happens in 2010, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 1989 One thing I just noticed is that there seems to be a sharp drop in India’s performance at the Math Olympiad starting in 2005. Anybody has any theory on that? 355
Posted by Test Tube babies on November 16, 2010, 10:41 AM | # This year Robert Edwards got the nobel prize in medicine for producing the world’s first test tube baby.However,within 67 days(less than 3 months) of that achievement,Subhas Mukherjee independently created India’s first (and world’s second) test tube baby using an entirely new and innovative method.Subhas’s techinique was faster,simpler,safer and has a much higher success rate than Robert’s method.And in fact,it is Subhas’s technique and not Robert’s,that is the preferred method of IVF in modern medicine. Subhas was the first person to work with frozen embroys and his method of “nitrogen freezing” is widely used today.India’s first test tube baby,Durga,is still doing well.Unfortunately,such was the criticism of his work at the time,that Dr.Subhas had to commit suicide.Such a tragedy! Yet another example of an Indian genius. 356
Posted by Jeff on November 20, 2010, 01:11 PM | # @Test Tube babies. 357
Posted by Real China on November 28, 2010, 11:23 PM | # A toilet in the Chinese countryside is a harrowing experience and one you will unfortunately remember for the rest of your life. The smell from a Chinese toilet can permeate the air for some considerable distance. It is a stench that on entering may send one into retreat. What may greet you is a row of rectangular holes in the ground all strewn with lumps of stale faeces and used toilet paper. There are no doors on the stalls, sometimes, even no partitions between the holes. But it isn’t just the toilets in the country that are filthy. Even toilets in big cities can be particularly unsavoury. It is not uncommon to enter a cubicle to find the previous occupant has not flushed. Perhaps such bad toilet habits are learnt whilst very young. Children can sometimes be seen urinating on the street. Many Chinese children have never worn a diaper or nappy. Instead, they have a big slit that, when they stoop down, opens and allows them to urinate or otherwise. In the last few months I have witnessed mothers allowing their young children to urinate on station platforms, streets in the heart of Qianmen and at tourist attractions, including the entrance to a Buddhist temple on the outskirts of Beijing. China is incredibly dirty. Streets are often littered with discarded food, fruit, paper and other waste. Even in some supermarkets the grime seen on floors would shock most westerners. The most noticeable dirty habit of many Chinese people is spitting. Chinese men especially have the disgusting habit of making loud hawking sounds and spitting the contents of their actions on the road, pavement or wherever they happen to be. While it is mostly men, women too can be seen participating in this vulgar habit. Some people even spit on the bus, and onto the floors of restaurants and public toilets. Many Chinese people also seem to blow their noses in a most indiscreet and vulgar fashion. Handkerchiefs or tissues appear to be too much trouble. Instead people are often seen to use their thumb and forefinger to press their nose and loudly blow out In China it is not uncommon to see meat lying out on the counter and the vendor using bare hands to handle it. In summer, it often lies out in the sweltering heat all day. On streets people sell vegetables and fruit, sometimes just laid directly on the ground. They are seemingly oblivious to the fact these are the same streets upon which people spit and on which dogs defecate. Littering is another apparently accepted habit. A recent visit to the Forbidden City in the heart of Beijing revealed how many were just unable to comprehend the use of a litter-bin. The vast courtyard leading up to the entrance of the Forbidden City was strewn with tissues, sunflower seed husks, apple cores, banana peel, orange peel, discarded corn cobs, plastic bottles and bags. My Chinese wife, who has lived in Britain many years, was also shocked at the scene which resembled not so much an ancient monument to China’s past than a garbage dump. 358
Posted by Real China on November 28, 2010, 11:25 PM | # Real China Videos, Enjoy:- 359
Posted by dave on November 29, 2010, 08:25 AM | # you can go to any big country, including the US, to find all kind of shit(see Detroit on youtube), but it is very hard to find a country where 650 million people (about 50%)defecate in open, like in India. http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/oct/15/in-india-665-million-defecate-in-open-un.htm And India also has more poor people than Africa:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10609407 So it is probably true that India’s average IQ is 81. 360
Posted by Hamish on November 29, 2010, 11:56 AM | # Comparing India to sub-Saharan Africa would be a great exaggeration of how awful things are in India. Just try comparing the average life expectancy in India to South Africa. In spite of the fact that the Black South Africans have lots of White doctors propping up their health, and in spite of the fact that the average life expectancy in South Africa includes the longer lived White population in its calculations, the average Indian still lives more than a decade longer than the average South African: Life expectancy in India…63.7 years Life expectancy in South Africa…51.5 years Source: World Bank. 361
Posted by Altec on November 30, 2010, 01:30 AM | # To Real China, I watched the video you posted and it is not that shocking. For example, in the video you posted to show the rural poverty in China, the children there seems to be in good health, albeit living a spartan life and without modern material comfort. But if you check out the poverty in India, the poor children looks to be in starvation, with protruded rib bones, distended bellies and skinny limbs that seems to be just skin over bones. Also, China is the top executioner in terms of absolute number, but it is the per capita figure that matters. Singapore is actually the world’s top executioner per capita. 362
Posted by Real China on December 03, 2010, 09:37 PM | # Chinese biggest killer of endangered animals!! Chinese illegal trade in endangered animals, worlds largest illegal industry; Chinese illegal trade in tiger body parts, leading to its extinction, More real China Videos Enjoy;
Race and intelligence science last taboo, an unbiased view about the IQ test scores and intelligence myths: inclusing interview from Flynn, Rushton and other scientists!! 363
Posted by Real China on December 04, 2010, 01:44 AM | # Correction: IQ test cannot measure creativity, intellectual ability, pragmatism, musical ability, individual performance and dedication and general grasp of knowledge, attention to detail etc 364
Posted by ZoForia on December 17, 2010, 06:23 AM | # m n indian… 365
Posted by ZoForia on December 17, 2010, 06:33 AM | # leme also tell u ... 366
Posted by Citizen on January 18, 2011, 11:05 AM | # Most folk methods of gauging intelligence are useless and not representative of real general intelligence. I believe Indian intelligence is frequently overestimated using these methods because of factors like how their culture emphasizes social interaction and discourages violence. This means they adopt most social behaviors that people of higher intelligence and soft upbringing adopt and therefore are hard to tell apart. Lack of intelligence is much easier to identify when you do things like frequently criticize or rant about things you don’t understand. Indians may do this when they think the target or it’s champions have no social repercussions, but it goes against their social conditioning for the most part (which is different than understanding why it is silly behavior, or understanding better the thing they would criticize). Intelligence measures things like how easily can you extract meanings of words from their contexts, or how complex of a pattern of change between numbers can your mind automatically identify. It controls how many abstract classes you can generate from the things you experience, which allows you to better deductively reason. For instance challenged people may not generate enough such classes to tell a dog from a cat. If all you have to reason with is {furry} and {four-legged} then you would think it is just as likely to meow as it is to bark. So people with low IQ’s might seem smart if they act a certain way, but they may not be good at solving novel problems using novel solutions. Also, it’s my belief that in developed nations it is taboo to use whatever intelligence you have efficiently. 367
Posted by ChinaHasLessGenius on January 20, 2011, 01:28 AM | # @Crunchy Hong Kong does well some times in the Math Olympiad, but so what? Every single question asked in the Math Olympiad has already been answered. If the Chinese and East Asians were doing more than simply mimicking and copying answers we would’ve expected them to be the best mathematicians, yet the Chinese and East Asians don’t make good mathematicians, they make good people who can win math contests. France does poorly in the International Math Olympiad, yet French Mathematicians contribute much much more than Chinese mathematicians do and have already won 10 Fields Medals with a staggeringly lower population size. How is that possible? If India can rank high in the IMO some years and bad in others and France can perform badly yet still produce many mathematicians who contribute that just shows that IMO indicates nothing more than education rather than mathematical talent. Contributions show what you can do beyond memorizing and copying, so if the Chinese were doing more we would be able to see it in the Chinese contributions towards mathematics. Instead China has never won any Fields Medal, and the 2 Chinese who have won the Fields Medal made their contributions in non-Chinese countries. It’s strange how a country like India with such a low standard of living can still produce poor uneducated geniuses but China with millions of poor people never produces poor uneducated geniuses…how is this? There’s poor uneducated geniuses found among Europeans, Jews, and Indians, but not the Chinese, how is this? If someone’s poor and uneducated then we know much of their genius is innate. China has more than 500 million literate people so it can’t be population size, and China supposedly has a faked\guessed higher IQ, so it can’t be IQ, so what’s left? Obviously the Chinese are either less intelligent, less creative or don’t produce as many geniuses as India does. The percentage of geniuses produced is much more relevant than average IQ. If a population with an average IQ of 100 produces no geniuses they will contribute much less than a population with an average IQ of 80 with a very high percentage of geniuses. The modern day Indian mathematician Manjul Bhargava who is the 2nd youngest full professor at Princeton is more impressive than modern day Chinese mathematician Terrence Tao according to Princeton Generals. Terrence Tao didn’t do well with Princeton generals. Manjul Bhargava’s contributions have already found more applications than Tao’s contributions as well. 368
Posted by WhoCaresAboutTheIMO on January 20, 2011, 02:04 AM | # @dave that’s funny because every single question asked in the International Math Olympiad has already been answered. The IMO is nothing more than a hard math exam. The IMO measures nothing more than education. If the Chinese are so good at mathematics then why can’t they answer unanswered math questions? Why can they only answer math questions that have already been answered? Also you’re wrong about population size, population size isn’t relevant, literate population size is, India has a literate population of around 700 million where as China has one around 1.2 billion, meaning China has 500 million more literate people. That’s funny how France never won the IMO even once, the very highest ranking France achieved since entering the IMO in 1967 was #5, France usually gets a ranking of 20 or lower in the IMO, yet France has already won 10 Fields Medals where as China has won the IMO so many times yet never won even one Fields Medal. How is that possible? After winning the worlds most useless math competition - the International Math Olympiad what does China have to show for it? NOTHING! France on the other hand never won the International Math Olympiad even once and already has 10 Fields Medals. Russia who achieves high rankings in the IMO has already won 9 Fields Medals. China who always wins the IMO has 0 Fields Medal. The conclusion: International Math Olympiad = Useless Indicator 369
Posted by Who cares about the Fields Medal on January 21, 2011, 06:46 AM | # One each of the American and Australian winners has been Chinese (Shing-Tung Yau and Terrance Tao). Of the French winners, one is Jewish, one German and one Vietnamese. Three Japanese have also been recipients. Just in case there’s any doubt that North Asians can’t do the heavy lifting themselves. 370
Posted by Tao is a Legend on January 24, 2011, 12:48 PM | # Actually,Tao is pretty much a legend in the mathematical community.The majority of experts rate him as the best,or at least one of the best,mathematical minds in the entire world. The thing with Princeton Generals and Tao happened when Tao was 18.He is 34 now and has come a long way since.It can be safely said that Tao has now surpassed all his Princeton examiners. Some have even compared Tao to the all time greats and said that he can be easily put in the same bracket as Einstein or Newton.That’s quite a complement for a person who is still alive and only 34 years of age. I agree that Indians have a lot of mathematical ability,but no need to put down others to prove that. 371
Posted by Tao is a Legend on January 24, 2011, 01:11 PM | # @citizen You are wrong,pattern recognition depends a lot on familiarity with patterns and you can’t be familiar with patterns right from birth.People with higher IQs are usually familiar with a lot of abstract patterns.So there is a component of IQ that can be practiced. One of the problems with India is that there are many flaws in the school and education system. 372
Posted by Goethe on January 24, 2011, 05:05 PM | #
He hasn’t solved a millennium prize problem. 373
Posted by Another Indian on January 25, 2011, 05:01 PM | # As far as I know the only person who has solved a millennium prize problem so far is Grigori Perelman.That guy is quite incredible.You guys should also check his IMO scores.He only appeared once and got a PERFECT score.Although that doesn’t change the fact that Tao too has an extra-ordinary reputation.In any case I don’t know how to rate or compare mathematicians.It’s a meaningless waste of energy,so I am going move back to the IQ topic.
Howe’s book is particularly interesting and it deals specifically with the topic of genius and also touches upon IQ concepts.IQ can actually be increased.Howe argues that studies show that it takes at least 10thousand hours of training to Really excel at anything.Yet only 100 hours of intelligence programs have shown notable gains in IQs.He also points out the difference between experience and environment and it is experience and not environment that directly shapes a person.It’s also a flawed concept that genes can determine complex traits like intelligence in such a one to one fashion.Genes and environment continuously interact to produce the individuals.His book shows that if you examine geniuses,you find that all of them had spend a lot of time training and they all got the right kind of personalities as well as the right opportunities.Also,high IQ and genius have no correlation,even though geniuses do tend to have above average IQ.
So,stop the racism and think constructively,rather than destructively. 374
Posted by Goethe on January 25, 2011, 05:23 PM | #
Being a mathematician would help. *waves*
Complete rubbish.
This is true. Instead of ‘one to one fashion’, you should be saying ‘one-to-one correspondence’.
Not true.
Of course he would think that way, if he has to use the ideas of others. He’s obviously an example of the pinnacle of Asian intellect, but that doesn’t mean he is on par with the top Europeans. And applied math is icky. =) 375
Posted by Another Indian on January 25, 2011, 07:37 PM | # @Goethe
Not that much really.Mathematics isn’t a 100m sprint.It’s pretty much impossible to produce a single quantity to judge a mathematician.There is no mathematician or scientist or inventor that produced a completely original work.All ideas are built upon other more elementary ideas.This is different to sprinting for example. Einstein always knew that true originality does not exist,the best you can do is to do your best “to hide your sources”. As for the rest,you are merely stating your opinions by denying facts and carefully done studies.The amount of time spent to train/practice on a subject systematically is the single best predictor of success in any field.The majority of people regarded as geniuses with known IQs have IQs in the range 110-135. And it’s not just Asians ,your western Stephen Hawking said that those who boast about their IQs are losers. 376
Posted by Goethe on January 25, 2011, 09:43 PM | # It’s impossible for anyone to be completely original at anything. Einstein certainly knew that, which is how he obtained credit for Poincare’s idea. It’s the most direct predictor, but you must keep in mind that there are prerequisites to almost everything. When I say ‘genius’, I mean 160+ IQ =) 377
Posted by Al Ross on January 26, 2011, 02:56 AM | # “India certainly has the genes”. Brahmins and Parsis provide a disproportionate number of India’s cognitive elite. As for the average Indian : 378
Posted by Another Indian on January 26, 2011, 07:36 AM | # @Goethe
Just to give an example-Jews are nowadays considered very smart,but at the beginning of 20th century they actually scored below average in IQ tests. Someone already posted a documentary called “Race and intelligence”.That was a nice documentary.Watch that and all myths will break.Rushton’s arguments were refuted systematically. 379
Posted by Al Ross on January 26, 2011, 11:50 AM | # http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/06/indias-average-iq-in-2100.html 380
Posted by Caesar on February 01, 2011, 12:27 AM | # @ Another Indian, Since you yourself is a brahmin, you should be able to comprehend the notion that there are difference between brahmin Indians and non-Indians just as there are difference between dalits, adivasis and people of the OBCs and SCs and brahmins. 381
Posted by The_Observer on March 01, 2011, 02:25 AM | # It is obvious that Indians are clever at talking a good game and getting away with corruption. They beat the Chinese hands down on both accounts. 382
Posted by vina on April 08, 2011, 01:07 PM | # The case of Vietnam is more complicated. People from the North of Vietnam is very similar to the people from South of China (actually, they once belonged to a country Nam Viet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanyue) while people from the South is a kind of mixing with the native people (i.e. Cambodia, Malaysia, etc) during the process of southward expansion of the territory. 383
Posted by Anoop on April 30, 2011, 04:28 AM | # There is a lot of verbal bashing going on here. I read through, some of them, but lost it completely after the first few. IQ, I believe, is not a sole derivative of inherent intelligence. I believe it to be a sum product of your inherent intelligence, your trained intellignence, the sustained effort you put into maintaining your level of active usage of brain, and the level of concentration that you are able to devote at any given point of time. If I take a test when my kid is not well and is in hospital, I might not fare upto my true potential. Being an Indian, I will be able to critically speak about the problems in India. China, I am not sure. In India huge number of people are in villages which are very very backward. Education is not given too much importance there. The family wants the kid to be useful in the labour work that they do. So while they might send the kids to the school, the atmosphere is not condusive to learning. Compare that with a much more educated state/city. Majority of Indians are in the middle income category. They have big dreams, and are able to lead a good life, but might not end their life being a multi billionare. They realise that whatever they have earned for themselves and for their family is ONLY by education. And they try to impart the same education to their kids. They try to send their kids to better schools, better environment. The time the whole of India follows this pattern the productivity of Indians as a whole will go up. The current expolitation of the uneducated mass will come to an end. Unlike China, the government of India is very very slow, as it has to go through a “democratic” process for reforms. It has made the education FREE and a constitutional right to every child. Not giving education is a crime, but in practicality, the implementation is poor. No body comes and takes a parent to the court for not sending his kid to school. I am not sure what is the system in China, but am very sure that the decisions are actually Implemented at most sincerity (or say most strictly) Having said all these, I do not believe educated Indians are second to any one. All of my friends are quite capable of undertaking any task with equal or better efficiency than any one else in this world. 384
Posted by kqk on May 05, 2011, 11:04 PM | # the east asian iq is definitely higher than south asian. the south asians really have no achievements to be proud of, the east asian’s achievement beats south asians hands down, in both scientific breakthroughs and the quantity of them. secondly, of all well known international competitions, east asians consistently top south asians. south asians including indians can only brag about their awards no one else has really heard of. but at any competitions where east asians compete, indians simply have no chance… they so often use the excuse of “indians have to study for the college exam” or “they don’t really care about those competition”, the truth is, in any well known competitions, indians sent just as many people as east asians, yet they trail way behind the east asians in scores, during which time the east asians also have to study for college entrance exams. the point is, south asians are not creative, not smart and build their countries like a dung hole, comparable only by sub-sahara african countries. just for the record, singapore is 70% chinese(east asian) thank god it’s not 70% indian, otherwise it will just turn into another poverty striken sri lanka. 385
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 08:32 AM | # The main difference is that india was colonized by england and China was not despite the efforts of europeans to try that. Not one former colonized country has done well, especially those colonized by europeans, all of them are sorry countries. All of them. 386
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 08:45 AM | # To compare China to india is a big mistake: only western press does this. Despite the shameless boasting of indians who problably live on another planet, they are sorry people, I mean they cannot even build a proper bridge or highway, so what stupid ass wants to compare india with China. China has better engineers, sportsmen, military, scientists, economists, so what do you want to compare?! 387
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 09:17 AM | # All right let’s compare China with india: infrastructure: China wins hands down, China is even ahead of western countries in high speed rail, we have better looking highways and they are even better than what you would encounter than in western countries, Military: China military is bigger, yes of course, better trained, better educated, and more competent than indians, Chinese military equipment is much better than indian equipment who receives hand outs from russians, or useless stuff. there is no comparison in this field. Chinese military equipment surpasses anything that europeans produce, only the americans are more innovative than us at this moment, but since j-20 fighter China has closed the gap. india on the other hand is and will always be dependent of foreign aid, in designing weapons systems and producing weapons. They simply do not have the base to produce weapons. While China always had heavy industries (steel, machines etc.) Scientists: China is so far ahead I don’t want to discuss this. Sports: China wins 150 gold medals at Asian games while india wins 1 or 2 in totallly unknown sports that nobody plays or have heard of. Economy: China is so much ahead I don’t want to compare this. Everybody knows. Landscape: China has everything, beautiful mountains, steppes, lakes, rivers, beautiful nature, exceptional diverse flora and fauna (all plants and flowers from eurasia, exceptional fauna diversity, from deserts to ice, from artic weather to sub tropical weather. China is a so much better country. 388
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 11:13 AM | # And something else I am the expert! I know more about race, haplogroups, genes etc. than anybody in this forum retards who quote from a rretarded website like wikipedia. the upper class of indians called themselves “aryans” or in fact iranians who invaded india in 1200 b.c. Now we know the mutation taht caused paleness and colored eyes originated with mongoloids, yes, not from the people from the middle east. So I can describe europeans as lightened up middle easterners with blend of mongoloid. So if I look purely at genes, all europeans are at least 50% middle easterners, depend of the area: spaniards and greeks maybe be 90% to 100% compatible with middle easteners like syrians and palestinians while the europeans of the north who have more mongoloid input are also paler and have coloured hair adn eyes thank to the ancient mongoloids who went to europe. How come you fail to recognize the link of mongoloid R1a and R1b are also the people who areblond and blue eyed, just like the finns who are over 60% N3 (North China haplotypes) are the most blond and blued eyed people of europe. In fact more mongoloid input is more blond and coloured eyes, the more closer caucasians are to the original caucasians (middle easterners) the darker they are and the bigger nose they have! So people are mixing up a lot of things, Europeans are just a mix of middle easterners and northern Chinese to speak of, the southern europeans are more closer to the original caucasians, the middle easterners, than let’s say the swedes who have more mongloid input put are blonder and more multi coloured eyed. What a fucking mistake it was for northern Chinese to walk to europe in paleolithic times, I rather prefer the mutation to have stayed in China, because then europeans of today would looked like middle easterners, without the paleness and multicoloured hair and eyes. I would have prefer that that all europeans would rather look like the arabs. Europeans as lightened up arabs, maybe it was better that R1a, R1b and N3 stayed in China, what a fucking mistake it is. We would not have the whining assholes complaining about this and that, their useless colonies, maybe it would have been better that europe is just an extension of middle east. 389
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 11:30 AM | # So the peope who brought indo-european languages into europe came from the middle east, the area we now called northern iraq, northern syria and anatolia.
You see, the more body hair you have like on your chest or your back, the more male middle easterner ancestry you have. Just like the bigger your nose the more middle easterner descent you have. I mean something like Charles de Gaulle nose, I am sure he had an middle easterner haplotype like J2 or e3b or I1. More original aryan or middle easter ancestry mean: more body and facial hair (men) for females it means that they have bigger tits if they have more original middle easterners descent. Just look at it: soouthern european women have much bigger tits than northern european women and they cannot help it because our Chinese women have the same small breast as nordic women. The southern european women have the same large breasts as middle easterner women. 390
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 12:01 PM | # And middle easterner women as southern european women have bigger asses! A bit like black big momma. Big breasts and big tits. some of them have the body of black women. It could be that middle easterner women have fairly amount of black genes and pass it on to southern european women. It is possible to just look at people’s faces and body to tell where their ancestors came from. 391
Posted by C.M. on May 06, 2011, 01:08 PM | # Bigger asses and bigger tits, the body of black woman, sometimes some middle easterner and southern european women look like version of big momma. I just want to research into this deeper, I think it seems that a fairly amount of white women have black bodies, it would be interesting to see if I am right and see if they have african haplotype. I think the amount of middle easterners haplotypes are underreported in countries like spain and portugal ( I think they lie about it, I don’t believe that R1b could be bigger than J2 and E3b, in reality the amount of J2 and E3b is substantally larger than R1b in spain, just look at spaniards, it should be very compatible with north africans and lebanese) Could’t be true of course the coalescence age of R1b in Europe is the youngest, 3000 years compared to 15000 years in China. So R1b arrived as one of the latest in spain so it cannot be bigger than the haplotypes who were already there like those middle eastern haplotypes J2 and e3b. I think a lot is underreported or false in genetic reports about europeans, the wikipedia website is written by retards. but going back to the big butted and big boobed women, I am sure genetics has its part, you can argue that they eat too much and dine too often at mac. The nordic women have smaller breasts due to their bigger mongoloid heritage, but are blonder and blue eyed, comapred to southern european women. So dark haired big boobies or blond small tits. 392
Posted by C.M. on May 07, 2011, 07:28 AM | # If the west wants to find a counter balance to China, they must find another contender as india is no match in the first place, it never was. I tell you what we do with competitors! Do not try to compete with China for resources, land because we still remember the days that the west tried to wreck China, those countries should be very careful now for nothing is forgiven nor forgotten. 393
Posted by C.M. on May 07, 2011, 07:53 AM | # In my opinion people in west are foolish people because they think that everything is about money and bribes and cheating to get more money. That’s why sollicitors or lawyers are amking big money in western societies. Lawyers are also overrepresented in western governments. If you look at the american congress, or house, the amount of lawyers is staggering. I hold lawyers in very low esteem but of course in west, it is different. Maybe lawyers are better liars when they address their own people when they are holding office, so maybe that’s why so many western politicans were lawyers. The western countries also have an entrenched class of certain group of people who hold power behind the scene, and it always have been that way.
We Chinese are proud to be Chinese and we will take care of those who think that they can change China. 394
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on June 06, 2011, 08:52 PM | # @Tao is a Legend, actually not Manjul Bhargava’s IQ is likely higher than the lame slave Terence Tao. Manjul Bhargava is nearly the same age as Terence Tao (1 year apart) and Bhargava performed FLAWLESSLY with Princeton Generals, where as the robotic Chinese Tao stumbled and nearly failed with Princeton Generals. Bhargava is the 2nd youngest full Professor at Princeton where as Tao had to go to UCLA (LOL). Princeton generals are known for being very very tough and Bhargava handled all of them flawlessly and even challenged them to ask him any question. Facing Princeton generals is much much harder than winning an IMO Gold medal, so Princeton general are a good test of intelligence. Most mind’s cannot handle Princeton generals and often get lost and confused in the process where as Bhargava’s performance was flawless. So Bhargava’s IQ is likely much higher than Tao’s, probably around 200 or higher, but neither Tao nor Bhargava’s adult IQ have ever been measured. Childhood IQs are always inaccurate and inflated. Bhargava’s contributions are nearly all things he did independently and display high originality where as nearly all of Tao’s contributions are things done with whites. This is because the Chinese cannot contribute anything without the help of whites. As usual WHENEVER the Chinese contribute it’s always something requiring little to no originality and it’s always with the help of whites, LOL. Tao’s is not a legend by far, his contributions are not as significant as Bhargava’s. All of Tao’s contributions are simply improvements of things people were already working on very recently. Bhargava’s contributions on the other hand are very original and display higher intellect than Tao’s contributions. Like Bhargava’s 14 new Gauss composition laws, that was very original because no one had ever touched Gauss composition laws since Gauss published his book in 1801. Even understanding Gauss composition laws by themselves is difficult for most. Bhargava’s contributions are more significant and find deeper applications. Chinese should just step back and realize that they’re just less intelligent than Indians, and have no intuition or originality like a robot. 395
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on June 06, 2011, 09:12 PM | # East Asians and Whites obviously have less geniuses than Indians despite having higher literate populations, are obviously less intelligent on average and on a whole than Indians. This is shown by the 2009 Richwine immigration IQ study with Indian IQ at 112, higher than the Jew, European, and East Asian. The majority of immigrants in the US are dark-skinnned, non-brahmin, and non-selected. Richwine’s study is the most extensive done and the most accurate. India is not nearly as developed as China, and Indians haven’t won nearly as much contests as China right? So how can India produce more mathematical talent than China? What someone personally considers to be original and intuitive is subjective, but contributions are completely objective. Contributions are a completely objective way to measure what someone can do beyond learning and copying, so the only conclusion is that the Chinese brain is just like a robot, everything ends after learning and copying. This is why the Chinese contribute so very little despite having the highest literate population size. India has even begun to unleash it’s potential and Indians already contribute more than the Chinese. The Chinese should just face the undeniable fact that they’re nothing more than slave robots, all their intellect ends at learning and copying, just like a robot. 396
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on June 06, 2011, 09:58 PM | # Further evidence that Chinese intelligence ends at learning and copying can be shown by the number of contests China has won vs. Chinese contributions. Belgium IMO Medals: Gold medals: 1. Silver medals: 10. Bronze medals: 46. Honourable mentions: 40. China’s IMO Medals: Gold medals: 113. Silver medals: 26. Bronze medals: 5. Honourable mentions: 0. So how can China win so many IMO medals yet not win any Fields Medals? Maybe it’s because Fields Medals are given for contributions, not for answering useless math contest questions. Answering useless math contest questions has to do with learning and copying where as Fields Medals is for contributions. No one can give any valid explanation for China’s lack of contributions. It’s just like I said Chinese intelligence ends at learning and copying, just like a robot. India’s Modern Mathematical Talents: Manjul Bhargava, Kannan Soundararajan, Akshay Venkatesh, Kiran Kedlaya China’s Modern Mathematical Talent: Just Terence Tao So how can India produce more mathematical talent, despite not winning nearly as many contests? Oh wait, mathematical talent is shown again by contributions not by contests alone. India is only beginning to release it’s potential and Indians already contribute more than the stink robotic Chinese. 397
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on June 06, 2011, 11:01 PM | # We can already see with 100% certainty that the Chinese are nothing more than robots possessing little to no originality or intuition, with only the ability to learn and copy, not contribute. This is clearly shown by all the evidence. Indians contribute more, produce more mathematical talent, more talents in Computer Science, etc….despite not winning nearly as many book-style contests as the Chinese. The type of contests China performs well in are robotic-type contests that have to do with answering book-style questions that hundreds of books cover, contests requiring little to no originality or intuition. Multiple studies have shown that self-disciple predicts GPA not IQ, meaning self-discipline predicts math exam results, meaning you don’t need a high IQ to succeed in book-style contests results. Hasn’t China won more robotic-type programming contests than India by far? So why has an Indian, Madhu Sudan won the Nevanlinna Prize (which is like the Nobel Prize in Computer Science) but not any Chinese? Indians have already won the Nevanlinna Prize, Abel Prize, and will most likely win a Fields Medal in 2014, despite having a much much lower literate population than the Chinese. Obviously India will FAR surpass China in terms of contributions once India becomes more developed, education improves and becomes more accessible, and the literacy rate rises. The only way it’s possible for the Chinese to contribute anything is if they get lots of help from whites or if they contribute something that requires very little to no originality. 398
Posted by CocaCola on June 18, 2011, 02:26 PM | # I found this link: http://bhanuprasad.net/myblog/blogs/blog1.php/2010/04/07/my-take-on-india-s-low-iq Check it out. Interesting stuff. Especially this link inside: 399
Posted by raj on June 20, 2011, 04:19 AM | # namastey to all chinese,at the present time may be u r better then us in the fields wat u discuss already but just think like a humanbeing do u hav any idea about wat will happen after all natural resources comletely lost ,i think ur all the achivements become useless, u said about our poverty suppose british and us army conqured ur country, and exploit ur people for next 100 years, do u hav still courage to fight like india did ,do u not fight with eachother if there is only one bread for u and ur bros. behind this condition of india britishers r totally responsible, give us time we will prove, any chinese who thought they r best in sports face any one indian in cricket… 400
Posted by Melatonin on July 19, 2011, 11:02 AM | # For the fun of it, here is a world map of national IQ scores vs average penis size. Looks like China beats India, again. 401
Posted by The_Observer on July 23, 2011, 11:21 AM | # @TheAryanInsideOfMe, @ChinaHasLessGenius, @WhoCaresAboutTheIMO The IBO, ICO, IGC, IMO, IPHO are all competitions for senior high school students. Many countries have only sent teams to these competitions in recent years. The medal winners show potential that won’t be realized for years to come. Terence Tao, born to parents from Hong Kong, as a younster represented Australia more than once in the IMO and was a medal winner. But more of a sign of his level of attainment than his being awarded a Fields medal in 2006; or his professorship at UCLA; is that there are so many other mathematics researchers who want to tap his analytical skills today. In the world of academia, that sort of recognition of your peers cannot be bought. 402
Posted by Rajandas on July 26, 2011, 04:13 AM | # I’m an Indian and I find the average I.Q given for Indians as reasonable. The Indian immigrants in North America and Europe do have a higher mean average I.Q because of their educational background and achievement: without an appreciable I.Q one can’t score the right SAT or GRE score to be eligible in the first place to study in western universities and eventually become their citizens. However, in the Gulf regions the average I.Q for Indians could only be marginally higher than in India because most of them are unskilled or semi-skilled workers. Having said that, their children with better education do have a ‘flynn effect’ in that they have higher I.Qs. On the whole, I believe, the current Indian I.Q would be slightly higher than 81. let’s say about 85. With regard to the Northern Far East countries such as China, Japan and Korea having a supposedly very high I.Q of abouit 110, there are many sceptics now. For instance, the celebrated writer Malcolm Gladwell asserts that the vaunted Chinese I.Qs are not real, in that, the sampling was not done objectively, but in order to get a ‘good leve’ the tests were administered to elite school children (comparable to the English Medium students of India). Malcolm goes on to say in his book “Outliers” that the chinese I.Q only equals that of Indian or the sub-continent average score of 85 or thereabouts. This shows that there needs to be a total revamp in the study and fresh tests should be given to Far North Easterners; until such a time we should not include them in any race, intelligence related topics. As far as Indians are concerned, there is a tendency among many especially the upper caste to get too sensitive on this issue of I.Q. They bring in sanskrit, vedas, ayurveda and some selective inventions to prove they are very intelligent. There is a difference between what one believes and what one is. It is time for Indians to come to terms with their I.Q which on an average is about 85. It’s not very difficult to find it out: see the Nobel Prize winners. We Indians have fewer than 5 while the Jews have 168, and the whites cumullatively over several hundreds. The good news is that even with a moderate I.Q of 75 a community can be successful in all aspects of life. This is more true with us Indians because we have an above average E.Q that makes us one of the most adaptable and successful human beings on planet earth. 403
Posted by Seltzer on July 27, 2011, 03:04 AM | # Interesting article. Hilarious comments. Vanhanen got it right about the Indians but I doubt the accuracy of his stats as far as far easterners go. I would put the Chinese behind white western/northern Europeans, the Koreans and Japs would score a little higher on an average but they would most definitely be more clustered around the average score where as the white population would have much greater variance on the higher side and not accounting for such spikes, the average would probably drop a few points and still be higher than the Chinese average. The average Indian is the peasant, the farmer, the construction worker and the cattle rearer. These classes would make up 50-60% of the Indian population and they have one of the lowest IQs in the world. IQ in India is class dependant with Brahmins and other upper classes scoring similar to a random sample of western Europeans and the Indian tribals at the lowest end having a similar profile as seen with the sub-Saharan African populace. Good day! 405
Posted by truewhite on July 30, 2011, 08:17 PM | # @Seltzer and Leon Haller: clueless Jews. You’re no whites. There is no stat on Ashkenazi jew iq. The only one reliable is jew 94. really pathetic. 406
Posted by arjen on August 01, 2011, 01:56 PM | # what utter bullshit!! These iq tests are the results of so called european eugenics, aryan theory etc etc, how superior white man conquered lands, this is not intelligence, first of all Whites population where classed as barbarian tribes, and have shown such traits, from the slave empires, of rome, britain, france, etc, to the plunder of india, africa, china, etc, to the forced conversion of others, from the dark ages, fro, the church to restricting sceience these iq tests are built on a western format, they will always show whites to have higher iq, but lets get into history, the basic fundamentals of maths, sceience, were achieved in india and china, its well known that pythagorus studies in india, its well known that greeks would send students into india, the first known evidence for well planned cities are in india, the first evidence for agrilculture is from india not central asia, the oldest civilisatons are india and china, the difference is 300years. for 300years, both india and chinese development was halted, for india it was two invasions of central asia, by muslims and then christians, via the sea, this absolute genocide and plunder of india, took india into poverty, its destroyed it ancient civilisation, and all this plunder and wealth was then transferred to europe, in america, a land wiped clean of the natives, whites used slavery to create the basic foundation in which white european soceity in america live in today, this free labour, created a country which has never happened before in human history, a slave population ge4neration after genraetion condemned to work and built the foundation in which whites would operate, the plunder of the east, the hijacking of trade roots, all these events which took place in the last 3-400years gave europeans a headstart withthe enrichment of wealth and knowledge form india, and at the same time india went into a deep depression for almost 400years, only know we are rising out of it, as is china. So whites iq is down to barbarian tactics in conquering wealthy profitable lands under their control, and plunder, this accumlative wealth over400years, has steadily improved the lives of europeans and at the same time directly condemned africa, india, china, americas into poverty. Thats why today most of the worlds problems stem from european rule and intervention,, The most intelligent people on earth, are the indian and the chinese, the two oldest cultures on earth, The indian never morally seeked conversion or lands of others, they where fulfilled, india and china where light years ahead of europe, information went from east to west as did wealth, even the core elements of calculus have now known to be from india, which was taken back to europe by jesuit priests….... IQ IS Determined by genetics AND MOST importantly enviroment. The europeans have a very basic shallow culture, which is representative of their civilisation, the history of european can be classsed in two parts, the first the enslaving , conquering barbaric chapters, from the days of rome, to british empire, to nazism, and 2nd chapter is one of now, today, where the wealth of those previous events has created a stable productive enviroment for europeans which they have had now for at least 200years, the wealth taken from india and china, aafrica, has now paid dividends, but compare the ancient texts of the asians (indain chinese) with europeans, their is no contest, the east is always and has always been the most intelligent and morally guided land on earth…you just need to look into the firt chapter of europeans to soo the ironic aspects of being labelled intelligent. 407
Posted by Dromedary on August 01, 2011, 05:48 PM | # Lest it be said that only WNs harbor negative feelings towards other groups (or better, groups they consider “other”), indulge in specious historical arguments (or simply lie) and so on, we present you Hindutva. 408
Posted by ravi on August 02, 2011, 08:33 PM | # There are many comments. I read a selection of them. From what I know and what I can state here is that the Indian government has never officially stated that we are in a competition with any other country in any field - whether it is the economy, the military, culture, sports, or political influence in the world. I understand why it is natural for people to compare India and China. But I think such people are wasting their time. Maybe there is not much going on in their lives. There is no democracy versus communism, no race to the moon contest here such as the one between Russia and the USA during the Cold War era. One thing though is clear. India is modernizing. If you visited India 10, 15 or more years ago you’ll be struck by the changes that have taken place. There will be more of the same in the next 10, 15 or more years. India is not doing it because some other country is doing it and it is not doing it to overtake some other country. Modernization is a natural process. And India is going about it in its own way and at its own pace. 409
Posted by Leon Haller on August 08, 2011, 03:23 AM | # Psychologists are like stockbrokers and seminarians. Very stupid comment. there are many brilliant psychologists. Someone with an IQ of 75-85 would not be able to get through an accredited doctoral program. 410
Posted by Genghis on August 11, 2011, 01:38 AM | # http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/horrors/a/eating_babies.htm 411
Posted by Bart Nijs on August 17, 2011, 02:16 PM | # Hi, I am from Belgium, Europe, and the above comments have convinced me that IQ is strongly influenced by environmental factors. Before I started reading them, my own IQ was about 50 points higher than it is now. 412
Posted by matt on August 17, 2011, 09:35 PM | # I do believe certain genes are associated might have an association with men carrying certain haplogroups. If you notice Europe has about 50% R y dna mixed with J2, J1, E3, I2a, I1a, N3, T. Genetic pools that have males contributing from R or J might be smarter. However, not research has been done. It doesn’t really matter that muuch. If you notice most of the male contribution for East Asia comes from O y dna, which is pretty homogenous.
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Posted by And_I_care_because? on August 19, 2011, 11:31 AM | # Uhm…lol. 414
Posted by And_I_care_because? on August 19, 2011, 11:38 AM | # I hate this stupid Ipad and this stupid spell-checker! 415
Posted by Se7en.Girl on August 19, 2011, 11:55 AM | # Okay people! Accepted! We, Indians are dumb and have very low IQs! Happy? @And_I_care_because? 417
Posted by Lurker on August 19, 2011, 08:19 PM | # I felt my IQ dropping as I read And I Care ‘s comment. 418
Posted by anon on August 20, 2011, 12:00 AM | # 20 million unemployed and underemployed people in the USA have the lowest IQ of any group anywhere in the world. 420
Posted by Amazed on August 20, 2011, 12:42 AM | # After all is said and done, this site is really about airing personal prejudices and not about science or even pseudo-science. 421
Posted by Lurker on August 20, 2011, 12:54 AM | # Thanks for your pointless contribution there Amazed, a real breathtaking insight. 422
Posted by anon on August 20, 2011, 08:10 AM | # Posted by Lurker on August 20, 2011, 04:41 AM | # Care to elaborate anon? ....................................................................................................................................... America is in terminal decline. 14 million people are out of work. Another six million are in temporary jobs unrelated to their primary skills and experience. How about directing your energies toward studying the IQs of unemployed and underemployed people in America? Maybe you’ll find they possess low IQs in the range 75-85 and that’s why they were let go by their companies. Do not automatically assume people have lost jobs because of the economy. Maybe people who have lost jobs should not have been hired in the first place. In a good economy managers at companies have a tendency to overstaff and build their own little empires. The people who are now unemployed may have gotten in during the time the companies were overstaffing. These people may be low-IQ people which may interest you enough to include them in your future work. 423
Posted by anon on August 20, 2011, 08:27 AM | # http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh3BI4708zS3J35O86 425
Posted by james on August 24, 2011, 02:38 PM | # People often point to the plethora of Indian workers in advanced positions in America’s IT industry and the UK’s medical fields. The truth is, many Indian immigrants to these countries are pre-selected as from the higher IQ range, and not indicative of either the mean or the average Indian IQ. India is also an astonishingly stratified nation, in terms of wealth, religion,ethnicity and caste. There is less stratification in immigrants from India to the UK and the US than in the country’s populace as a whole. The higher caste, urbanised elite provide the lion’s share of immigrants. This gives a distorted image of Indians as being of high IQ levels. Compare this to immigration from Mexico to America, where every middle class, lighter skinned urbanised and educated immigrant is probably outnumbered dozens of times over by normal working class Mexicans. China’s IQ average is much higher and more consistent than INdia’s, which is why any betting man would bellow with laughter at the mainstream media discussion on how India may soon catch up or even overtake China. This will simply never happen. Largely due to the natural iq difference- 106 for China 82 for India. Sure, environmental factors have a role in IQ, but no matter what effort you make, you will never make up a 24 point difference. 426
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on August 24, 2011, 02:44 PM | # @The_Observer lol I had already debunked the big lie of the Chinese being good mathematicians by destroying the validity of the IMO now you come with a weak argument about it’s only been recent years. Chinese are good at being math students not mathematicians (they’re two very separate things). China has been ranking high in the International Math Olympiad since the mid 1980s and has not won EVEN 1 Fields Medal, Abel Prize, or Rolf Nevanlinna Prize. China has already disproven the validity of the IMO contest and some other contests. The mid 1980s were not just in recent years they were nearly 30 years ago. So why hasn’t anyone from China won the Abel Prize, Rolf Nevanlinna Prize, or Fields Medal? Tao is not from China he is from Australia, and just as I said his most significant contribution comes with the help of whites (in this case Ben Green). The Green-Tao theorem however is not that significant since Szemerédi’s theorem had already been proven in the 1970s. Tao is just overrated by the Chinese. I mean there’s probably not even one mathematician in the entire world who would ever place Tao above mathematicians like Galios, John von Neumann, or Grothendieck. Chinese have always lacked in the contribution department and no one can deny this. Now let’s look at what India has contributed JUST in recent years since the year 2000: If robotic type contests were useful it should be IMPOSSIBLE for Indians to be contributing more than the Chinese since the year 2000, shouldn’t it? I guess China disproves the validity of contests. 427
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on August 24, 2011, 03:35 PM | # China has already disproven the validity of multiple contests lol….I mean look how much better China performs in robotic book-style programming contests than India so why was India the one to develop the very first proven primality test and not China? It shouldn’t be possible. Chinese and East Asians should just stick to getting help from whites to make any contributions or only making contributions that require very little to no originality. No one has been able to given any valid explanation for China’s lack of contributions. The only talent coming out of China is how to win a worthless contest. Now it’s time for me use my Blessed Divine Aryan mind to completely debunk the myth of the validity of the International Math Olympiad: - IMO country rankings do not correlate to Fields Medals or Fields Medals equivalent (Abel Prize or Nevanlinna Prize), otherwise it should be impossible for France to have 11 Fields Medals and 3 Abel Prizes - IMO country rankings change dramatically from year to year, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent - IMO rules say you must be under the age of 20 with no tertiary education level, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent - Only 6 individuals per country participate in the IMO, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent - The Chinese who win IMO gold medals in non-Chinese countries still don’t contribute much or anything at all, further indicating that the reason the Chinese don’t contribute is because they are genetically specified to be unable to contribute not because of the education system - Indians who win IMO medals in non-Indian countries contribute lots, further indicating that India’s IMO rankings are suppressed by a bad selection process and pre-college education system I already know that the main reason India performs poorly in the IMO is simply because of a bad selection process and pre-college education system, just read things like this http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100212220044AAhScLH If the IMO rankings were a useful indicator for India specifically it shouldn’t be possible for India to produce more mathematical talent than China. IMO individual rankings are far more useful than IMO country rankings. Just look at the contributions made by the Chinese vs. Indians since the year 2000 and it’s no comparison, India wins by a HUGE margin. The AKS Primality test developed by Indians working in India is far more significant than the Green-Tao theorem proven by Ben Green and Tao working outside of China. The AKS Primality test has infinitely more applications than the Green-Tao theorem which has virtually no applications. Whites and East Asians should just step back and let India rise up and surpass the entire world. 428
Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on August 24, 2011, 06:10 PM | # I’ve already thoroughly destroyed what the Chinese have been boasting about - their IMO rankings. The whole point of the IMO is to find mathematical talent which is shown by contributions so China has thoroughly failed. You will never hear any Chinese boasting about contributions, but only worthless contests. We can see just as I said that the Chinese just don’t have any talent. Since China performs #1 in most robotic-type contests yet has no significant contributions to show for it we can only conclude that China raises it’s rankings with artificial measures. China must be preparing students for the IMO in high school to artificially raise it’s IMO country ranking. Most IMO-style questions just require using simple techniques found in books. IMO contest questions don’t even cover anything as advanced as calculus. With around 1-year or so of practicing IMO-style questions it wouldn’t be hard to get an IMO Silver or Gold medal. For some reason on all the non-book style contests China doesn’t perform well in. I mean there’s no Chinese chess player that’s ever ranked world number one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_number_ones . I mean if someone like Tao never existed mathematics would remain nearly the same without all of Tao’s contributions. I’m very surprised that Tao even got a Fields Medal. Tao is more celebrated for being a prodigy than for his contributions. The Green-Tao theorem has virtually no impact on mathematics, like nothing. On the other hand the AKS Primality test changed computer science and mathematics. Bhargava’s new Gauss composition laws also changed mathematics. We can see that since China has been winning lots of contests since the mid 1980s yet has no significant contributions to show for it that China is basically done and has maxed out all it’s potential. China isn’t really doing anything other than winning contests. India on the other hand performs much worse than China in contests, has a much lower literate population than China, is much less developed than China yet since the year 2000 has been contributing more. Chinese should just stick to worshiping white people, boasting about worthless contests and let Indians take everything over. 429
Posted by matt on August 25, 2011, 07:39 PM | # China is much more homogenous in terms of haplogroup distribution, so an iq test done on a population in any part of china would be valid. However, India is a much more complex and diverse society. Different communities have different proportion of male contribution for certain haplogroups. I believe males carrying certain mutations for R y dna, O y dna and J y dna might be smarter.
If you don’t know what HAPLOGROUPS are, google them. The world is way more diverse than you think. People have migrating everywhere for the last 10,000 years. Greater civilizations usually become a melting pot. You can see that if you look at haplogroup distributions for Italy, Greece, certain parts of Middle East, India. R Y DNA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O_(Y-DNA)
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Posted by TheAryanInsideOfMe on August 27, 2011, 09:23 PM | # I’m more looking forward to what would will happen to Vietnam, Thailand, and Nigeria once they become developed. I don’t really know what’s going on with China and contributions. China has been ranking high in the IMO since 1986 (25 years ago) yet China has no Fields Medals, Abel Prizes, or anything equivalent to show for it. India hasn’t been ranking high in most contests and since the year 2000 already has an Abel Prize, Nevanlinna Prize, and many other contributions that have not yet won major prizes. In 2014 and/or 2018 India will probably win a Fields Medal. Since India is less developed, India has much more potential than China. The Chinese just can’t contribute much because contributions are directly linked to originality and things far outside of books. Indians should just focus on developing and improving the living conditions in India to eliminate all the environmental and health factors lowering the IQ in India so that the average IQ in India should be around 102-110. Indians have lots of super-geniuses like Balamurali Ambati who learned calculus at age 4 (Terence Tao learned calculus at age 7) and set the world record for being the youngest doctor, Vinodhini Vasudevan who set the world record for the youngest to score a perfect on the SAT, Manjul Bhargava who has some form of photographic memory and is the 2nd youngest full professor at Princeton, and many other super-geniuses. Once India becomes more developed, India will obviously surpass the entire world and retain it’s position as the most advanced civilization just as in the past. India had the very most advanced civilization for thousands of years, much more advanced than China, only relatively recently has India been surpassed: - Indus Valley sewage and piping system was only surpassed in the 19th Century China surpassed India in inventions, but that’s only because China had the culture to build labor-saving devices for at least 2000 years. The majority of Chinese inventions don’t require much intellect at all and many were very inefficient. The mathematical inventions developed by Indians require more intellect than all of China’s inventions. China didn’t even approach anything like a Newcomen steam engine or a piston steam engine even though no knowledge of physics or electromagnetism is required for steam technology. We would’ve expected any civilization that has the culture to build machines for at least 2000 years to come up with at least steam technology. Basically any civilization that has the culture to build machines for 2000 years would’ve been able to come up with as much as China did or more. As soon as the Arabs and Europeans adopted the culture to build machines they easily surpassed China in inventions. Once you factor in the culture variable of being the only civilization in the entire world with the culture to build machines for 2000 years China’s inventions aren’t that impressive. On the other hand Wootz steel, Indian linguistics, and some mathematical methods developed by Indians are still impressive today. Since India had Wootz steel, clocks, water wheels, book binding, an advanced sewage system, and had already surpassed China in philosophy, linguistics, and mathematics I’m sure that if India had the culture to build to machines for 2000 years they would’ve easily surpassed China in inventions as well. I mean just imagine the inventions Indians would’ve had if India had the culture to build machines and brahmins and recluses were assigned the task of building machines by Kings. Indians likely achieved even more it’s just that Indians were not good historians so many things disappeared. All Indians have to do is focus on infrastructure and development then once that happens India will retain it’s position as the most advanced civilization in the world, just as in the past. 431
Posted by Lurker on August 27, 2011, 09:40 PM | #
Europeans didnt adopt the culture, they developed it, independant of whether anyone else had done it as well. 432
Posted by anon on August 27, 2011, 09:47 PM | # Intelligence is many different things. It cannot be defined, measured and reduced to a single number. The IQ tests measure specific skill sets. For example, your proficiency in solving verbal, numerical, analytical and visual-spatial problems. If a nation’s population is literate with at least up to a good high school education you can expect the average IQ to be closer to 100 in that country. The idea that national IQ and Greece and Ireland are in serious economic trouble. There does not seem to be any meaningful correlation between their national average IQ and their national wealth. The word intelligence in Intelligence Quotient is the problem. For one thing, IQ tests do not measure intelligence but skill sets. IQ tests should be renamed GLPT for General Literacy and Proficiency Test. Or called by another suitable name. 433
Posted by Lurker on August 27, 2011, 10:03 PM | # Greece and Ireland are not fully in control of their own affairs, the EU being the most obvious problem.
Really? 434
Posted by namae nanka on August 28, 2011, 05:19 AM | # “without an appreciable I.Q one can’t score the right SAT or GRE score to be eligible in the first place to study in western universities and eventually become their citizens.” GRE maths is childish. The more difficult part is vocabulary, done by rote. Secondly, I would expect english scores to be rated more laxly than for the native or rather white students. —— “Thirty years ago you had a China with a supposed average IQ of 100 and little national wealth.” Well, they tripped a bit with their great leap. “Greece and Ireland are in serious economic trouble. There does not seem to be any meaningful correlation between their national average IQ and their national wealth.” There isn’t a meaningful correlation between your mom being pregnant once upon a time and your height. “The word intelligence in Intelligence Quotient is the problem. “ Stones and sticks will break my bones, but words will haunt me forever. ———— “Since India is less developed, India has much more potential than China.” Or being on roughly similar timelines, today’s difference in their conditions is the effect of that difference in potentials rather than its cause. 435
Posted by anon on August 28, 2011, 12:09 PM | # You cannot predict a nation’s economic performance A GDP of 10 trillion dollars for a populaion of So you can have a nation within a nation. A nation And the average IQ may well remain somewhere in the Of course this is not what India wants. According to 436
Posted by anon on August 30, 2011, 10:08 AM | # Economically speaking China was a nonentity just China has a pervasive counterfeit culture. Probably China has a literate population and a very large Chinese manufacuring and economic growth are the As for India-China competition or rivalry, it is It may not be generally known that China adopted 437
Posted by InferiorAsians on August 31, 2011, 11:14 PM | # Hahahahahaha funny this two poor 3rd world country are fighting each other , very typical crab mentality. Why not you all focus on why your countries has the smallest penis in this world. Or just behave cause your master ( superior white ) might take your poor job . 438
Posted by anon on September 01, 2011, 09:29 AM | # This whole business of imaginary India-China rivalry was They looked at the growth in GDPs in recent years. The Since then more and more people have taken to writing 439
Posted by sampan on September 03, 2011, 05:54 AM | # who said china had won 7 prizes.for shake of ur binformation-republic of china have won 2 peace prize.hongkong chiana 1 physics prize.and republic of china(taiwan)3 science prize.so the so called chinnese republi of today have won 2 peace prizes who are most hatered by their own goverment.and india have produced the class of sn bose,jc bose,mn saha,ecg sudarshan-who all didnot win(some of them not even nominated)but first 2 of them are 2all time great.also worlds most sophisticates vitro fertilization test tube baby maker subhas mukhopadhya had to commit suicide for abuse within india.2010 nobel prize went to one of the co british scientist for this research.if mukhopadhya would have been alive he should have got it.plus the city of calcutta is directly associated with 5 nobel prize winner and also 3-4 genuine guys whom i have already mentioned(source-wikipedia page nobel prize controversy). so the city calcutta alone is enough to beat whole china. 440
Posted by anon on September 03, 2011, 10:04 AM | # @ Posted by sampan on September 03, 2011, 09:54 AM | # sampan, Relax, man, keep cool! Don’t bust a blood vessel. I pointed out in my previous post that this bogus, fabricated Nobel prizes were established in 1895 and the first prizes were Further, Nobel prizes these days and achievements of the Always ask yourself: what have you done lately? 441
Posted by Alex on September 07, 2011, 11:12 AM | # The brain requires a huge amount of energy. If you live in a region where the risk of children suffering from diseases and viruses is higher, it should be expected that as the body diverts its energies to fighting illnesses, it has less to allocate to brain development. It’s not race that matters, but health. 442
Posted by saka on September 10, 2011, 07:36 PM | # I am starting to think certain haplogroups that form a higher proportion of populations might be contributing to intelligence levels. If you look at the brahmins, a high proportion of males seem to be R1a, R2 and J2 y dna. J2 originated in middle east and has been recognized as a marker that gave way to the spread of agriculture from Middle East. I believe males who ultimately became successful farmers were more intelligent, had more resources which women were more attracted to and probably had more children. J2 has a higher concentration in southern india compared to northern india. It is also quite high in askhenazi Jews and people from northern middle east. I am not sure what ethnicities contribute to extremely high intelligence socities. I have always heard there were high percentages of Askhenazi Jews. I believe certain genes that are passed on by men carrying R1, J2, O y dna contribute to intelligence. Lot of research has to be done to figure out what genes are contributing to intelligence, which is just a waste of time as everyone is just looking for an upper hand in this competitive world 443
Posted by Trainspotter on September 10, 2011, 08:28 PM | # Alex: “It’s not race that matters, but health.” LOL! Yes, I’m sure this explains it. I marvel how, even in middle class communities of the developed world, disease and epidemics manage to strike down black students but leave white students unscathed, thus accounting for IQ discrepencies. This happens in literally thousands of school districts across the fruited plain, pretty much without exception. But wait, there’s more! Then disease manages to hit the middle class white students, while sparing the middle class asians! Wowza! Amazingly, in thousands of communities all across the developed world, this same strange pattern of disease and malnutrition manages to strike certain groups and spare others, even though we control for income and educational levels of parents. Interestingly, white children of parents who make less than $10,000 dollars a year outscore on the SAT the children of black parents who make upper middle class incomes. It’s amazing how disease and malnutrition magically spares the trailer park, stalking the upper income black families instead!!! The lengths you race denying cultists will go to deny reality, well, it’s actually impressive. You take something that has a degree of truth - if Akbar is constantly malnourished or starving, then yeah that’s not going to do much for his brain development or performance on IQ tests - and then you use this to obfuscate a broader and more deeply fundamental truth, namely that the races are indeed different. So tell me Alex, who is nuttier? The crazed religious zealot who believes things that cannot be proven one way or the other, or the race denying cultist who just as fervently believes things that are demonstrably, provably untrue? In the crazy department, you guys beat the religious zealots hands down. But fortunately, I’m here to help you. What you need is a quite moment of introspection and reflection. In this moment of Zen, you might question the motives of the people who fill you with such nonsense, not to mention your own motives for then spreading it. But nah, that would be too hard. Back to the cult! 444
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 09:37 AM | # To fully understand the scope of Chinese inventions, that even have impact today one only has to read a book like: Robert Temple, Joseph Needham, “The Genius of China: 3,000 Years of Science, Discovery, and Invention” It’s a myth that Chinese cannot innovate: most things that are useful were invented by Chinese, even the things that people take for granted like paper money, or well drilling (ancient Chinese were drilling about 2km into the earth to extract salt with bamboo poles) so useful to extract oil today. Just a few example to mention, there are alot more of course, the use of negative numbers in math, navigation with compass, gunpowder etc. etc. too much to mention. Basically everything we have today are just modern versions of ancient Chinese inventions. It’s of course bullshit to say that China has no mathematical talents, I mean who the fuck cares who get appointed as prof at Princeton, does princeton mark a achievement? Most degrees are “bought” in america anyway, as long they pay their college fee they will graduate, even Bush has degree from Stanford! University is for the rich not for the smart in america. I mean like all prizes and appointments, it’s useless. Fuck the field medals of whatever prize, it’s not important. 445
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 10:00 AM | # The best way of running a country is a kind of military commission: it’s the only way to guarantee a traitor free government, then of course the commission should consist of highly nationalistic officers who are more fond of war than money. Money is not important, in war you can take what you want, so there is no need for trade. Taking whole nations and their resources. Instead of piling up useless american bonds or other crap they call “wealth”, let the losers of WWII supply the americans with hondas and mercedesand pay tribute, we are Chinese, undefeated Chinese so we have no obligations whatsoever to improve american living standards with cheap electronics or clothes. America neither defeated us nor liberated us. I don’t want foreign tourists in China, in fact I don’t even want foreign cars in China, let alone so called “foreign talents”, those who return from america might be traitors. I have read so many books written by foreigners or Chinese traitors that everything is clear to me: america is the source of mishaps of China, the sooner we face them in war the better. All these bullshit advices they offer in these books, of all the crap things we should do: China must do this, China must do that, while they exempt themselves. The Chinese politicians/traitors better think about doing the right things first: For Chinese only, only for the Chinese nation, nothing else. 446
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 10:30 AM | # China should not go the way as the losers of WWII, being a nation of export, the losers might be great economies but they are also slaves of their american masters, what choice did they have other than to become nations of exporters (to america)?! they were defeated and occupied by the americans, big deal that they have large GDP, these countries are american lackeys, they have american bases on their soil and they cannot object to that. I am so glad I am Chinese, rich loser of WWII or poor independent, I would choose the latter. South Korea: success story of the east with large enterprises, again this is a small country with a small internal market, so they have no other choice than to look for overseas markets, but China has huge internal market, we sholdn’t be exporters like the south korean, because the south koreans have no choice. the japanese are a small island with no resources at all, they too are forced to trade, and of course after their defeat. But China is different, we have a huge market and we have huge resources too. It’ folly to compare China to germany or japan, germany and japan are losers! They have no choice. China must not get into this trap of voluntarily tying our hands like the germans and japanese. All these talk about that we “need the americans” is bullshit! Why the fuck are we financing west, so they buy from us, this whole idea of trade is useless, but maybe somebody can explain to me the advantqages of foreign trade. Fuck foreign trade and relations, it’s irrelevant. What we should do are the things we need to do, like sinking aircarft carriers, intervene in foreign lands, set up Chinese bases. All the other stuff is bullshit and work of traitors, having a cozy relationship with americans is treason. 447
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 12:44 PM | # Fuck trade! Why should Chinese peasants finance western consumers, getting bad money back instead, paper notes worth nothinig. I don’t care how they call it, what point is it in having a 2 trillion of foreign reserves, what good is that for China?! It fucking get recycled in american bonds which yields no return at all. Only fools think it will benefit China, all this crap about “soft power” ( I don’t believe in soft power only hard military power), chairman Mao is right: america is a paper tiger and they are good for nothing, except leeching off other countries. 448
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 12:56 PM | # Let the european slaves finance the living style of their american masters, since america keeps reminding them that america liberated them. fuck trade with the europeans too! well fuck it! With Chinese money the PLA must be enforced, the american try to trick us into being wimps while they spend more and more money to arms. I say let’s follow suit and it will not be China that will be bankrupt in the arms race. First they build 50 arleigh burke class DDG, or ten per year in a period while there was no need for that, the soviet union didn’t exist anymore. Then they say to China: “look we have not build any destroyers the last ten years!” Yeah I say China should also build 50 destroyers first and then say: look we have not build any navy ship lately. we should match them ship for ship, nuke for nuke, sub for sub. They have no need of 12 aircraft carriers, but they built them. Only fools will walk into the trap, america wants to make wimps out of the current generation of Chinese, but the americans were never friendly to us, never, it was a fucking mistake to have diplomatic relations with america. these people are not our friends, they are scum and enemies! 449
Posted by C.M. on September 16, 2011, 01:08 PM | # real power is hard military power, nuke boats, nuke missiles, destroyers. “Soft power” is bullshit and anybody uttering these words is a fool. America steals resources from the whole world, the price is just the cost of printing paper dollars, and they tell us how to behave?! China must wage wars too and emulate american behaviour, it works. 450
Posted by C.M. on September 17, 2011, 07:29 AM | # europeans are the shy slaves of americans, of course it could be that they voluntarily choose to follow the americans because they feel that they owe the americans. I am pretty convinced though that they just don’t feel the contempt of the americans for the “old europeans”, in the words of Bush to speak of. Think about it, most white americans (75%) are descendant from poor italians, greeks, spaniards etc. the poorerst people in europe at the time when they migrated to america. They don’t feel any connection to old world as they see it. Sure they talk english, but it’s not because they descended from brits, it’s because italians started to learn english. The majority of white americans are overwhelmingly descended from southern europeans, that’s what PLA said if genetic composition of whites in america. I am pretty sure the americans know it themselves without Chinese army geneticists telling them. We know everything: the genetic composition of our neighbours, what kind of planes they flying, what they think, we know everything. of course the hindus are lying about their genetic composition, but that does not surprise me, with their white worship attitude, they are truly a race apart, they are middle easterners and australian aboriginal mix. There is no R1b in india, there is no N3 in india, there is no Q in india. The R1a, small number, that may exist came from the mughal (mongols) a couple of hundred years ago. there is however J2 that clearly show that some of them migrated from iran 1200 bc. 451
Posted by C.M. on September 17, 2011, 07:42 AM | # To Matt you are wrong, but you are a hindu of course. Haplogroup Distribution for India - R1a, R2, J2, O, L, H, very little R1b, Q, F*, E, G There is no native R1b, nor Q, in india and foreign tourists are not indian cititzens. East Asia is wrong to speak of. Here for China. Chinese Male: O about 50%, N3 12.5%, R1a 10%, R1b 10%, further D and J accounting for rest. 452
Posted by C.M. on September 17, 2011, 07:50 AM | # “Haplogroup Distribution for India - R1a, R2, J2, O, L, H, very little R1b, Q, F*, E, G It could be that this Matt guy copied it from internet, but it’s as reliable as the wikipedia bullshit. indo-european speech is from the area of anatolia, 8000 years ago this was a centre of farming, which spreaded into europe. indo-europeans were not from steppes of russia, they look as the people of today armenia and turkey, they were not blond nor blue eyed. they looked as middle easterners. the gene of blond hair and blue eyes are not from middle easterners, I mean the mutation does not originate from middle easterners. 453
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 08:27 AM | #
Is there a point to your disinformation, or do you just annoy robbing white people of a significant part of their heritage like every other street-corner blabbermouth? 454
Posted by Gudmund on September 17, 2011, 01:04 PM | #
The Anatolian Hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis, which has never been conclusively established. Furthermore, it concerns the fact that a certain branch of the R haplotype dispersed into Europe via Anatolia. It says nothing about those people having a Near Eastern phenotype, nor should it because any such claim would be completely speculative and not based on evidence (unlike the genetic record, which is the basis for the hypothesis). Incidentally, Near Eastern phenotypes tend to be associated with areas where Haplotypes E, G, and J are in high concentration, not R. Fail. 455
Posted by wtf j. c. on September 17, 2011, 01:42 PM | #
That’s a pretty stupid comment for a myriad of reasons. No, really, I’m not sure where to begin and where to end but I shouldn’t expect much from someone who doesn’t know the difference between haplotype and haplogroup and confuses a linguistic hypothesis with genetic hypotheses, in the first place. Btw, fair features (which is what this “phenotype” discussion is all about really) quite likely developed in the neolithic or post-neolithic period (and wouldn’t have been as ubiquitous as they are in certain areas today, in the beginning) so there you go.
He is a looney toon but his putting forward one theory about the IE urheimat robs “white people” of their heritage in what way? 456
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 03:17 PM | #
a) In precisely the same fashion as putting white people in alarm quotes. Either there was an ethnosphere of carriers of the R1a mutation and who eventually came to refer to themselves as “Aryans”, or there was not; either this was inside what is today Europe, or it was not, despite the best efforts of some crypto-egalitarians to introduce literal “fuzzy borders” into the paleohistoric model (an ethnic “continuum”). I don’t know to which race this C.M. belongs, but you can be sure he is extra-European, because only two kinds of people bring so much vehemence to denying a European urheimat: Asians, and leftists like Elst. The entire Indo-European scholarly community within Europe and America, including most mainstream Indian and Asian experts, are behind the Ukraine refugium / steppe model. This includes many brilliant men like J.P. Mallory, David Anthony, and above all Michael Witzel. There is no longer any debate here. Well, there is, in the way there is still a debate between creationists and evolutionists. For that matter a woman told me not long ago that one maggot spawns thousands of flies. There are different levels of understanding among people, and C.M., despite some ideas with which I agree, relies on others that are laughably false — that “most white americans” are descended from Italians, Greeks and Spaniards for example. Spanish immigration to America was one of the sparest of all European nationalities. But I won’t waste time taking apart that stupidity. I’ve exhausted myself battling “Anatolians”, who are secure in their solution merely by virtue of having not read the “Ukrainians”. 457
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 03:23 PM | # A last point to consider: Even Razib Khan and Dienekes (two wogs that is) support the Ukrainian model. These are legendary eggheads with a grasp of genetics that soars above all of our heads, including this C.M. Who you gonna believe? 458
Posted by Gudmund on September 17, 2011, 04:15 PM | #
Yes, haplogroup is the correct term, and I’m not a genetics specialist so I can be forgiven for occasionally making mistakes. Nevertheless, none of what I said regarding those haplogroups and their distribution is untrue, nor did you refute it.
No, I did not confuse it, as the two are linked and there has been genetic research which supported the hypothesis only recently. It was less convincing before there was any real evidence for a migration out of Anatolia. I’m afraid you really don’t have as much of a bone to pick as you think.
Yes, there is evidence that blue eyes originated in the Neolithic but to my knowledge no similar data has been compiled on blond hair or light skin pigmentation. The point here is that the scientific record is not adequate on these questions and your speculations need more evidence to be convincing. 459
Posted by j.c. wtf on September 17, 2011, 04:17 PM | # C.M. has said he’s Chinese. I don’t see a particular reason to disbelieve his claim, considering he is or presents himself as an anti-European sinophile. You don’t need to familiarize me with the details of IE - some of which you interpret in an eccentric or at least lopsided fashion due to your worldview (e.g. pro-European urheimat arguments have been the worst offenders regarding unscientific arguments in the past, e.g. Colin Renfrew who has studied some of the earliest European cultures is somehow “anti-European” even though his argument stems from his archaeological interpretation about continuity in Europe). There are still unsolved problems with all urheimats. Based on my readings, I too think the steppe model more likely (or at least a combination of neolithic + steppe for both west and east) but it’s not a settled question in the sense that, say, IE linguistic unity is, by any means.
Question time: What is “Europe” today? The area up to the Don, the area up to the Urals? The Russian steppe is good to go but Anatolia is a region so far removed from us that we might as well not acknowledge it (nevermind that even the Turks -culturally alien Muslims, sure- have less East Asian input today than some Russians do)? How do you know which Y-DNA haplogroup was dominant in the steppes back then and why do you present it as part of your “either or” argument? Are you extrapolating from the situation that exists today, after all those Iranians moved East, Turks moved East then Russians moved West across what was a thinly-populated region? I’m not even sure why you mentioned the purported dominant haplogroup of those people, in the first place. It says nothing about their autosomal genetics or their influence on the settled, agricultural populations. Perhaps it’s just an argument of the “sometime in the past, there existed a grand white people who gave us most of our languages” sort. I guess I don’t really see the attraction in that.
It’s a phrase that means very different things to different people, that’s why I put it in quotes (please don’t make the argument that I could say that about any ethnic grouping). Some think white = Caucasoid, some think white = European (as a term seems to have its own problems), some think white = NW Europe. I wasn’t denying your existence. :-(
Dienekes, if anything, is pro-Anatolian. I don’t know about Razib but he seems to support a steppe model for at least the Indo-Iranians. What’s a wog btw? 460
Posted by j.c. wtf on September 17, 2011, 04:18 PM | #
No, it’s not untrue *entirely* but it’s ridiculous on so many levels that I won’t spend time refuting it. 461
Posted by Gudmund on September 17, 2011, 04:33 PM | #
IOW, “I have no argument with you anymore.” To clarify, what I’m saying is that populations with high incidence of haplogroup R are generally associated with European appearances or in some cases Eurasian appearances as it also appears in Central Asia, Siberia, etc, and that populations with high incidence of haplogroup E, J and G are generally associated with Near Eastern appearances. Judging from the available evidence, this is not a far-fetched claim. I don’t really know what the argument would be here? How is it ridiculous to generalize about this? I’d be interested to know what you think is wrong. 462
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 06:26 PM | #
Yes, he is concerned to demonstrate the continuity of “Near Eastern farmers” from Anatolia in Europe. Fine. He can have that. What he and every other proponent of his theory has failed to prove is that these people were “speakers of Proto-Indo-European”. What can I say? He ought to have studied the Hittites better than he did. Besides, as far as I know he has never published a follow-up of any sort defending his Aryans-are-from-Turkey story. Maybe, just maybe, it’s because he can’t rework the evidence to fit that frame anymore. Indeed, when he published that book, the place of Hittite and the Anatolian group had not been fully explored. Isaac Taylor and a handful of others had arrived at the steppe more than a hundred years ago; it’s all in Google Books. But then comes the revelation that Hittite is IE and an anti-white scumbag like Renfrew, and the Gamkrelidze team in Russia, sees them as the vehicle of both agriculture *and* Aryan culture. Well, the picture has been revised since then. Simple as that. There’s an archaeology of IE scholarship itself that must also be taken into account.
This seems to be more of a mantra for pussyfooting scholars than even a half-truth. I see all sorts of evidence in favor of the Pontic-Caspian steppe. I wasn’t swayed by Gamkrelidze’s 900 pages of pure reaching, on the other hand.
Then we are in total agreement.
I’m sorry, have you not read anything by Cavalli-Sforza? I thought all this was settled more than a decade ago. How long shall we spin on this hamster-wheel? Either the west-east swathe cut through the continent by this Y-DNA marker tallies with Aryan migration or it doesn’t. C.M. says Mongolians are responsible for it; which means the Vikings were closer to the Mongols than the Aryans. You see, it really is either/or, without your square quotes. Despite the reluctance of the scholars to draw sharp lines, their findings all tend in that direction.
I doubt they were grand in the sense of numerically preponderant. That ought to be uncontroversial enough for you. But yea, they certainly did “aryanize” much of the Continent, just as the Altaics did in the east. What’s the problem?
A n*gger, by extension any non-white.
Well, I’m 100% West Euro, and half Italian to boot (lolzlolzlolz), so I have no genetic stake in the Aryan question at all. I think you’d just absorbed too much of the scholarly method to understand where I’m coming from. People like you won’t satisfied until we find a six foot tall mummy with blond hair from 3,000 BC with a stone age passport issued at Dniepropetrovsk.
Gudmund,
You know damn well what the argument is: they don’t like the central urheimat hypothesis because they’re basically anti-white and this comes too close to an assertion of deep identity for white people, which is *dangerous*. Aryans are *scary*. They oppressed people so their existence should be systematically denied. So it must be that those Tocharians out past Lake Baikal, wearing clothing that would have almost been at home in Donegal, had more in common with the muds overrunning Germany than the Boii of Halstatt. Ok! Aryans didn’t exist. R1a is a mythtery for all time. Nothing is certain. It’s all up in the air. Everything is relative! White is different things to different people. Into scare quotes we go! 463
Posted by Silver on September 17, 2011, 07:53 PM | #
I don’t think Americans are very familiar with the various ways “wog” is used. The Brits seem to use it the way you think, but I’m pretty sure even there it doesn’t refer to any non-white. (Nigerians and Koreans both “wogs”? Hard to believe.) But that’s certainly not the way it’s used in Australia. Here it almost always refers to southern and southeastern Europeans, as well as Turks and Levantines, ie the earliest non-NWE immigrant arrivals, who were granted permission to immigrate under the auspices of the “White Australia policy”—awry racial reasoning on the part of the authorities or not, that’s how it happened—and its use as such is jealously guarded by those groups. I think you’d be surprised just how white some people who use “wog” to refer to themselves here are (and virtually all wogs use it to refer to themselves, typically with pride). I have an uncle who looks like a slavicized version of Rutger Hauer (ie pretty bloody white); he’d automatically assume he and/or his group were being referred to by the use of “wog” or “the wogs.” As an example of how it can be used in conversation, just last night I was talking to a girl who was pouting about the rude manner in which some Indian tried to pick her up. She was a “eurodarkie” like me (European facial contours, “dark” skin) and I used the Indian story as an opportunity to inquire about her background. “I’m from [city],” she said. No, I mean, what background are you? You’re some wog, obviously, I said. She said actually she wasn’t, that her mother was, in her words, “English…you know what I mean” [what she meant is her mother is “Australian,” but they cant’ say that anymore since so many people call themselves “Australian” these days that it’s lost all utility as an ethnic identifier, much like “American” has], and her father part-English, part-German. And nothing else? I asked. “Nope. But people just think I’m Italian,” she said. “But it’s okay if people think I’m Italian. It’s better than thinking I’m Indian—oops, it’s bad to say that.” [In reality there must have been some nigger in the woodpile there at some point, else she’s adopted, because her appearance was ridiculously non-nordish for someone of the claimed backgrounds.] Anyway, dayum, I had no idea you were this passionate about the Urheimat debate. Kurgan Pride World Wide! Lol. 464
Posted by wtf j.c. on September 17, 2011, 08:30 PM | #
And every proponent of every other theory…There’s no need to get into the concept of “proof” here and despite adhering to a steppe origin (see? I’m not anti-“white”, I love them riders), I can’t admit that it’s been “proved” to a certain satisfaction as far as I am concerned.
He seems to have. He has reworked his theory on some matters but you’re the one who should be telling me this.
I dunno, you seem more like an anti-white scumbag with your hard-on for pre-Scythians (the name is monstrous yet it caresses your ear?). At least Renfrew was initially concerned with those nice people, ancestral to the first civilizations in Europe, who created those lovely statuettes at the Cyclades and he went from there. Right?
That matter isn’t settled in genealogy and population genetics today, let alone “more than a decade ago”.
What’s white? (lolzolzolzolzolzorgz)
Maybe you’ve read too much of that Greek chick who dabbled in Aryanism (I forget her name but the possibility of her ideological non-existence would have been one of the benefits of the Central Powers winning) and de Gobineau.
You’ve shown that to be the case so why are you trying to turn it on me? :(
I don’t get this one, C.M.‘s fave theory would result in “white people” having an even deeper identity, one that went back to the Neolithic, rather than the Chalcolithic/Bronze Age. Since it’s always ideology with you: ideologically, I’d take Anatolia over the steppes but I can’t.
The Tocharians come up (with certainty, that is) a few thousand years later than the people who had more in common with the “muds overrunning Germany” entered Europe (oh God, it’s about the Grand Turk after all). By the time they decided to go East they probably had more in common with the later East Slavs obviously (the beacons of light upon Europe).
465
Posted by Gudmund on September 17, 2011, 09:00 PM | #
The main problem I have is that I can’t get a read on this guy. He claimed my comments were wrong, basically, and refused to go into why. That’s not very convincing, whatever his ideological positions might be and frankly I don’t care what they are. He doesn’t sound quite like a revanchist, eff-whites type to me judging from his subsequent comments (although you never know, some of those types are not the straightest shooters to put it mildly). But on to the questions at hand: Specifically, I’m aware I said haplotype when I meant haplogroup - again, I am not a geneticist and do not work with these terms regularly, but a simple misstep in wording doesn’t invalidate everything I said - but was anything I said re: these haplogroups and their distributions and relationship to phenotype wrong? Not that I can see. I’m aware I wasn’t clear enough re: Renfrew’s hypothesis (i.e. that there is an important genetic aspect to it, which was worked out by others - geneticists - well after his linguistic theory was proposed; that is how academic research evolves, though, people pick up on old things when there is more evidence) - but again, how was I wrong about this when Balaresque et al offered evidence that supports Anatolian Hypothesis? These are valid questions and it’s not very sporting to do the dodge tactic especially if he thinks I’m wrong. If that’s the case I’m all for being corrected but I don’t think it is. 466
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 09:31 PM | #
Then I guess we have different standards. Guys like you will never be satisfied, for, as I contend, you’ve swallowed the postmodern academic lie that nothing is certain, pushed in to the hilt when it comes to the Aryans, who must not be allowed to have existed. Even an unholy leftist like Bruce Lincoln thinks the Anatolian set have just shut their ears to the hard facts marshaled over decades, a mound as high as a kurgan and way taller than theirs, no less than the Hindutva pandits have. At least they bring some passion to it (read Talageri — hilarious). You Western proponents are bloodless beggars of the question. You will observe I am placing you in with the “Anatolians” despite your assurance that you prefer the steppe model. This is because your motive is, as you admit, palpably jaundiced. It so happens that the most talent and proof align with my preference: Aryans may be tentatively identified with the aforementioned genetic marker, and their progress throughout the Continent mapped thereby. Simple as that, hoss. Bit of equestrian humour there for you. Also I’m not the brightest, so my perspective will be very rough around the edges, and as you note, heavily ideological. I can do no better than to counter that there is an ideological undercurrent in all of the official literature as well, you just haven’t seen through it yet. I except Witzel from this charge; he seems strangely untouched by any fanaticism or vengeance, even in spite of all the hatred that’s been poured on him in the Hindoodoo press, and he doesn’t downplay obvious conclusions like Mallory and Adams.
I can’t be bothered anymore. These matters were settled for me years ago. I read my own boys and the rest can sod off. Literally for archaeologists, lolzlozlzlozlzlolzz But I will have to give this a wee dekka, thanks for the tip.
You’ll be pleased to learn my taste is not so vulgar. Really, do I strike you as a reader of that fan-girl slop? It proves what I’ve always known, I have no ability to assimilate and reflect what I’ve read. You’d think after thousands of pages of Dumezil just a paragraph or two of good sense would result. But no. I’m still an idiot.
Same starting point as Martin Bernal. But you have me there: I couldn’t care less about statuettes and wine bowls. Doesn’t resonate. I prefer brutality. Haoma-huffing eaters of horse flesh. Gang warfare on the steppes. Reduction of whole peoples to the Aryan yoke. Doesn’t thrill you at all, bro? Oh I know, it was just “cultural diffusion”, they shared their pottery with the good squat Alpines who learned Aryan creole for the benefits, etc. But at least someone back on the steppe was getting really really drunk and doing stunts on horseback, then went a-clobbering down the Indus.
Not really. But you must admit there’s a possibility the pushers of the Anatolian model are acting partly from attachment to liberal ideology. If so, how would this color the “debate”? In precisely the same way that guru Elst and pandit Talageri argue from their own rabid pro-Hindoo bias. Witzel and his Japanese colleague have settled all that in dozens of articles, debates, blah blah blah, and their magisterial translation of the RV with its priceless introduction. Guess what? All this brainpower comes to exactly the same conclusion as the old guard: Pontic-Caspian steppe. ]
I don’t know about that. The Tochs don’t seem to have been an equestrian folk, for one, and we lack absolutely any trace of their kinship structure and living arrangements, for another. As far as their speech, the current theory is that the first arrivals preserved those features in common with centum, while later arrivals provided an Iranian stratum. I am curious to know where you got this idea or if you came up with it yourself, ‘cause it smells like shite. 467
Posted by anon / uh on September 17, 2011, 10:27 PM | # Silver, Missed your comment. That’s a great story, and I didn’t know the other white meats self-identify as wogs there. I’m sure there would be some cog-diss if a Brit, say a skinhead, happened to call a Nigerian and Korean in the same room “wogs”, but I am also sure they would do it anyhow. Certainly a Nigerian would sooner be called wog than a Korean, given the word’s origin. I’m in favor of restricting it to negroes but these days I use “kaffir” as a rule: it sounds like a slur, it’s directed at blacks, but not one of my fellow Americans in five-thousands knows what it is. If they ask I tell. If they don’t, maybe they slink off to the bathroom and look it up on their iPhone; or they assume from context that it’s a synonym of “n*gger”. I have trouble with “wog” because my mouth’s muscles aren’t trained to the British manner, so the “o” is open and it sounds just weird. A friend of mine, good black Irish features, told me no less than three guys called him “wog” while traveling in Northern Ireland.
If you like I will send you one of my “Solutrean Social Club” t-shirts!! Deys good fo swoopin dem flah honeyz at da club. Bitches all like, “daFUCK dat meanz?”, and u be all like, “BITCH, aint u KNOW u a muhfuggin SULootreen? Psk psk, get up on mah body nah.” 468
Posted by Guest Lurker on September 17, 2011, 10:53 PM | # anon/uh wrote:
Some interpretations of recent genetic findings are weighing in against the Ukrainian hypotheses in favor of a central European one: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/ Basically, it seems East Eurasian mtDNA lineages were fairly common in pre-Indo-European Ukraine. However, such markers were not found in Bronze Age Corded Ware remains from eastern Germany (see here), with supposed origins on the Eastern Europe steppe, nor are they commonly found in present-day Ukraine. What this suggests is that the Eastern European steppe was not the source of any large-scale migrations into Central Europe. Rather, it’s more likely that the European steppe populations were replaced by successive waves of migrants from Central-Eastern or even Central Europe. 469
Posted by James on September 18, 2011, 12:18 PM | # Indians on paper have wonderful qualifications. In practice, they rarely live up to their billing. Having worked with Indians in Canada, USA, Europe and the UAE, I have found them to be work shy, risk adverse, always looking for pen pushing positions with a business card that says manager or director. I have not yet experienced one that ever met a deadline, ever complied with a budget or could think outside of the box. They are very poor managers. Usually, they occupy a position, quickly get into trouble, hide the fact, search frantically for another job, then move. Rarely, and never in my experience, do they see a project through to completion. The experience of many countries, including Canada and the UK is that they leverage their degrees (their exams consist of repeating back what they have been told, not original thinking) to get visas, sponsor their families, in turn have large families themselves, then, after they have turned neighborhoods into the slums they left behind in India, you find the relatives and offspring reliant on social security. I would guess that they have a native cunning, that permits them to ride the backs of other immigrant communities, especially when it comes to taking advantage of liberal laws, but these people do not have a work ethic, which, no matter how high your IQ will limit them to safe jobs, ducking responsibility and migration to the civil service type of work. I have found the Chinese to be completelly different. They do have a work ethic and some pride in their neighborhoods. But the Indians, just a curse really. In years to come, our grandchildren will ask why we gave away our country to these awful people. 470
Posted by matt on September 18, 2011, 11:15 PM | # I am basing my information on this haplogroup distribution chart below. http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf The haplogroup distribution from various studies. There is a high percentage of males carrying R y dna. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_South_Asian_populations 471
Posted by Boh on September 19, 2011, 12:34 PM | # My impression is that the Indians have a pretty intact feudal system which, regardless of where they immigrate to, comes along intact with them. The implication of all this is that within a feudal system everybody is considered an outsider indefinitely and actions are taken to benefit members within the feudal system—They wouldn’t put in any more effort than required because they see it as a form of trade to do work. A transaction which finishes the moment its over.
As for IQ, I don’t think people are talking about human intelligence so much as trying to create ethnic based class systems. 472
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 02:40 PM | #
Cut the stupid ghetto jive-talking already. You are not fooling anyone. The only relics of an advanced civilization that are found in India are those that were built by foreign rulers, the turko-mongol muslim Mughals and the white Christian British. The Hindus were never able to create an advanced civilization, probably because of the asinine caste system. Just read above how disgusted even Gandhi was by the Indian villages in which the overwhelming proportion of Hindus have always lived, or how disgusted Babur the Mongol-Turk conqueror of North India, the Aryan homeland, was by the utter shabbiness and backwardness of his new domain. 473
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 03:03 PM | #
Ethnic Chinese have won 2 Fields Medals vs 0 for ethnic Indians. East Asians have won more than 3 times the Nobel Prizes in the sciences than south Asians. Technologically, economically, militarily, organizationally, in practically every way east Asia is miles and miles ahead of south Asia. You look very, very stupid bragging about India which is poorer, hungrier, filthier, shabbier than almost any other place on earth. This despite having all the advantages of western inspired political, judicial, educational institutions and the stability and peace of 3 generations since the British handed it over to the Hindus. What this mess proves is that the Brahmins of India, the black and brown sahibs who replaced the British white sahibs as rulers of India, have got to be among the dumbest people on the planet. Yet, shamelessly, they are also the most boastful! 474
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 03:27 PM | #
India performs poorly in practically everything, not just the IMO. It has the hungriest children on the planet in both percentage and absolute terms despite having enough farmland. Or look at it’s miserable infrastructure, shabby even by third world standards, despite graduating tons of “engineers” every year. Who or what do you blame for the miserably failed systems and processes of India if not the low intelligence of it’s ruling elite, the upper caste hindus? 475
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 04:09 PM | #
Like I said the Hindu hereditary caste system is an asinine way to organize a society, another expression of the low intelligence of Indians. Just look at it’s sorry results. The egalitarian Enlightenment movement of Europe and America which drew inspiration from not just the pagan Greeks but also the Confucian Chinese basically created the modern age. Caste and superstition ridden India has a lot of catching up to do… Even after generations of independence India still has one of the lowest literacy rates in the world, and what passes for literacy in India is a joke. 476
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 05:24 PM | #
Hey Frank, stop lying to us. Your society is led by a black, Obama, who replaced an incompetent white, Bush. You have more African-American doctors than German-American doctors despite there being more German-Americans than African-Americans. The head of NASA, a former Commander of the Space Shuttle, is African-American. Heads of Fortune 100 corporations are black. American music from jazz to rock to hip hop is the creation of blacks and imitated all over the world. Your all-American sports are dominated by blacks. Your most popular religion, Pentecostalism, was started by a black. Etc, etc. 477
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 05:39 PM | #
Then you should have a fetish for albinos. Do you? Does anybody? Instead what I see is tons of pasty white men who have a fetish for black haired, black eyed, darker skinned mongoloid females. They seem to find the Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino women utterly irresistible. It is actually amusing to see them acting more possessive over Asian girls than girls of their own race! How do you think that makes white girls feel? Undesirable and inferior I bet. 478
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 07:24 PM | #
Three Japanese and a Vietnamese have also won the Fields Medal. Vietnam also performs much better than India in the International Math Olympiad. So does Iran. 479
Posted by Bliss on September 19, 2011, 07:39 PM | # The Wolf Prize in mathematics has been won by 3 Japanese and 2 Chinese mathematicians vs 0 Indians. The Wolf Prize in Physics which is second to the Nobels in prestige has been won by 2 Japanese and 1 Chinese vs 0 Indians. The Wolf Prize in Chemistry has been won once by a Chinese but never by an Indian. The Wolf Prize in Medicine has been won by 3 Japanese vs 0 Indians/south Asians. 480
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 06:57 AM | # indo-europeans were not from central europe or ukraine. Why do you keep whining about that?! The problem is with you guys is that you claim certain haplotypes as your own while it’s simply not true, for example R1a, it’s present in Europeans “so it must be from europe”. I wrote before that R1a and R1b originate from Asia, if you don’t believe me just let a professor read my message. I mean europeans would like to see themsleves as “unique”, but you really are no more than a mix of middle eastern and mongoloid. It’s s the way it is, nothing more, ask any honest geneticist. I mean how can R1a be a gene of “indo-european”, if ti’s only present primarily in eastern europe, not southern europe and southern europe is certainly the entry point of indo european speakers. Look at greece: it’s primarily J2 and E3b as the theory would have predicted of a middle eastern origin of indo europeans. western europe is where R1b is dominant and it’s not even from europe itself, the people with R1a and R1b could not have spoken indo european languages for one simple reason, R1a and R1b have northern Chinese origin ( there are the people with the oldest coalescent ages of these haplotypes going back way before they emerge in Europe, for example the R1b coalescent age of spanish and irish is only 3000 years old, because these areas where the last areas to be settled by people with R1b). Now the kurgan (burial mount), if this is something “indo european”, how come there are no burial mounts in europe? You guys are making the mistake of claiming the indo europeans buried their kins in kurgans or rode horses, you can forget about that, the oldest domesticated horses were found in ancient kazakstan, yeah. the indo europeans cremated their kins, like in middle east, drank wine like everybody in middle east, eat bread like other middle eastern people, looked as other middle eastern people and migrated in the neolithics, 8000 years ago, into europe. Their lifestyle, farming was superior to the hunter gatherer societies so their languages became dominant by culture not by war. If you farm you wait for the food to grow literally, instead of going after ruuning game or collecting wild berries. There was a population explosion in neolithics due to farming. hunter gatherers did not had as many children as the indo european farmers so that’s how europe got their speech conversion. Of course the hunter gatherers married the daughters of the farmers too.
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Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 07:25 AM | # indo-europeans: middle eastern origin, from anatolia, wheat and barley bread, wine, sheep and cows, the language family is large stretching into india, from it’s point of origin, the middle east. Characteristics of 482
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 08:25 AM | # genetics don’t lie. I said that white americans are overwhelmingly descended from southern europeans and it’s true. The language in america is english, so the southern europeans abide by it. Most names in america sound english but are the people carrying english names really from british descent? I guess not. You can be a Mcandrews and have 0.00 % scottish ancestry instead you can be anything, like a mix of italian/polish who married into someone bearing that name but descended from greek and french etc. I am not referring to hollywood actors who changed their names into more anglo sounding ones, but the overwhelming part of whites in america descended from southern europeans, I don’t know wh either, maybe they had more children. 483
Posted by anon / uh on September 20, 2011, 09:05 AM | #
So ... it didn’t happen. As I will presently show. I wirr speak yaw language. Risten up, China Man.
It is associated with Altaics, not “Mongoloids” — as it is associated with the movements of the Indo-Europeans. It’s highest frequencies are in Central Asia, Eastern European, then the Altaic region and Scandinavia. Not Zhongguo, Anatolia, or Mongolia. See? Is very simpawww. China Mayin have big prablim wid dis. He go yon yon yon yon yon faw no leason at aww bout white peopaw come from de middaw eass, cause he HATE white peopaw. http://amigo.ge/saunjegallery/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Haplogroup_R1a_distribution.png
Wrote the anti-white Jew, Martin Bernal. Even other Jews debunked his burrshit. Next prease!
Ok. Ret’s rook again, sharr we. http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/worldmtdnamap.pdf In dis wan yew gonna see dat mtDNA haplogroup pledominates in Western Europe, whereas de situation in Qin is much maw confused, i.e. yaw wimmin had reaw hawd time rong rong ago. Now we gonna rook at Y-DNA: http://forums.iransportspress.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22953&d=1268865764&thumb=1 As you gonna see from dis, Pekin Meng, West Europeans are extremely low in markers from the Middle East, as are the Han. Italians alone present a high frequency of haplogroup J, which they share with Turks. What dis meeeeaaaaan? you still don’t berieeeeve me?? Werr den risten stirr China Mayin!
rrrorzrorzrozrorzrorrozzozzrrzrzz As you can see, China Mayin, R1a is quite rare among West Europeans, marginal in Germans, more predominant in Norwegians and Slavs. Why? Because this tracks the movements of “Indo-European” tribes across the Continent. It simpry is true, from available data, that there is a very low frequency of R1a in Anatolia, which may be associated with the “elite dominance” of the “Anatolian group” of “Indo-Europeans” who departed the Urheimat ~2500BC. Dat crear enough faw youuuuuu? you berrrieeeeeeve me now??
Awwrr, haw haw haw haw haw!!! Dat REARRY funny!!! You mean dat R1b mutation dat don’t hardly ESIST in Asia and is AW OVA Eulope COME FROM AZNS??? Yon yon yon yon yon yon, WAAAHHHH!!!
Awwwww, hawhawhawhawhaw!! dat rearry REARRY funny!!! White peopaw just MONGOROID n Middaw Eastern, HAWHAWHAHWHAW!!!! loll on froor raughing!!!!!
Awwww hawhawhawhaw rearry rearry REARRY funny!!! Don’t you know how fah da Eurasian steppe exten’, China Man? There was no “Ukraine” or “Kazakhstan” in 3000BC. “Ukrainian hypothesis” is shorthand for: Eurasian steppe hypothesis. Oops! China Man make stlaw meng argument.
Later, starting in Greece and Italy, after contact with European natives. As they did in Indo-Pak, after living with those darkies. Curiously, Zoroastrians “expose” their dead—in towers, kinda like kurgans.
And lacked a native word for “wine”.
Although their words for bread mean “boil”, “bubble”.
And lacked words for farming.
Despite words relating to warfare.
China Man know wut he torking about. His peopaw fom rong rong time.
You mean like cave paintings depicting the hunt? or Doric legends of boar-chasing? Scythian legends of the golden stag?
Ok, ok. The Finno-Ugrics did that!
There was a population expansion in neolithics due to stock-breeding. On the steppes.
Kurgans per se are not the point; that was Gimbutas convention. Pit graves exist all over Eastern Europe ... the Balkans .... central Asia ... well into Xinjiang. Ruh roh! You do understand that there was cultural borrowing on the Continent, yes? like how the Han were given the wheel and the horse by the ??? ???
Despite lacking words for wheat, barley, bread, and wine at the earliest linguistic stratum.
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Posted by anon / uh on September 20, 2011, 09:38 AM | #
Ignorant Chinee do. Your queue’s a little tight, loosen up. 485
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 09:42 AM | # Listen stupid fuck: If R1a is a indo european marker, why don’t dutch have R1a, are they not indo european speakers?
You don’t believe me?Just show it to one of your biology profs in stanford, MIT or whatever overrated institution in the fucked up states of america! you stupid fuck: spain is full of J2 and e3b can you tell difference between spaniards and lebanese? 486
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 09:51 AM | # You stupid dumb ass if you don’t know the difference between a kurgan and a pit grave, then why are you reacting to me message, you know nothing about the subject except blablabla about “urheimat” maybe you are really stupid. A kurgan is a man made small mountain or big heap of earth covering the grave chamber. Kurgans are man made mountains to speak of. 487
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 09:55 AM | # as stupid as most americans are, the most stupid people on this planet,it would be a pleasure to wipe them out, ignorant people, ok, but stupid people… maybe there is a final solution to that! 488
Posted by anon / uh on September 20, 2011, 10:00 AM | #
There. Does it not feel better to be honest?
Nor books, evidently. Not by “fucked up white geneticists”, at least. Because white people are evil middle eastern mongoloids, as you have shown, conclusively.
I say t??me?to?, you say t??m??t??. Scurry off now, Ding Dong Wang. Someone’s tea is going cold. 489
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 10:12 AM | # Well well well, stupid america man from trailer park wants to say something. I want to add this: america is a fucked up society and everything america stand for should be avoided by true patriotic Chinese like the fucking rubber sole hamburgers, the fucking cars they drive, the fucking hollywood movies they make, plus everything considered western values like democracy and other crap! I am so glad that americans know how true Chinese patriots think. 490
Posted by Leon Haller on September 20, 2011, 10:23 AM | # C.M., What has China given to the world, really? Very little. The few things of value only became valuable when the white man was able to perceive alternative uses. And remember: China has always had the largest population in the world, as well as the excellent old Confucian civil service. And yet, the Chinese have accomplished comparatively little (not just in science and technology, but the arts, music, literature, philosophy, etc). Almost everything of value on the planet came from the Aryan (though in recent centuries the Jews have, it must be admitted, also made some positive contributions, along with a lot of negative ones). I’m not sure you’re even a real Chinaman. 491
Posted by C.M. on September 20, 2011, 10:42 AM | # Sure sure, belgium man also wants to make a contribution, I wil take my gunpowdered pistol against your fucking electric invented what? The big mistake is that China did not take full advantage of everything we invented, instead we were just too peaceful but this mistake will not happen again. If we used gunpowder to slaughter other people, China would have a much higher living standards. what value? your prada handbags, your eau de cologne (cost 10 eurocent ingredients, alcohol, water, artificial flavor) that sell for excessive dollars? west has invented nothing that is useful, do you relly think the overrated and overpriced western stuff are things considered useful? the only thing you succeeded in tricking all these backward and stupid people in buying western crap like handbags and “brand” clothing like those 3 dollar jeans that sell for 200 euro. Just look at those useless monkeys in the desert with their oilmoney, they hired these whites to build a golf course in the middle of desert, great invention golf course in desert! you think inventing mass production is some kind of big feat of whites? 492
Posted by anon / uh on September 20, 2011, 11:07 AM | #
It is really a pity that you inimitably peaceful, South Asia-conquering, Sun Tzu-reading Chinese were unable to profit from “your” one game-changing invention because “you” were too busy beheading and immolating each other (Warring States), before adopting the crossbow and Western cavalry tactics in pursuit of your prideful navel-gazing. Paw’ peace-roving Chinee! He smoke his opium while white devo’ rape the centre du cul du monde.
Our ancestors, you mean? rorzrorzrorzrorzrzrzrzzz
About as big as inventing the wheel. Which one of your Emperors ordered through the Sears-Roebuck, Silk Road Edition along with horses that “sweat blood”. 493
Posted by Why America is a Superpower on September 21, 2011, 06:18 PM | # Michio Kaku explains Basically, USA is a superpower because of the Indians , because of the Chinese, and because of other immigrants who are not pure breed whites. Without them USA would be nowhere. I think one group that should be specifically mentioned are the Jews that immigrated to USA at late 19th and early 20th century. Most of America’s big name projects(nuclear, space, computers etc) of the 20th had Jewish and Eastern European names written all over them. But Jews are not white, of course. They look more like a mix of relatively upper-cast Indians and pure-breed whites. They are like half-breeds who have interbred for many centuries. So, what USA currently boasts of has very little to do with “white supremacy” and has lot more to do with “white diplomacy” - to be able to steal the best minds from the rest of the world. The pure breed whites have contributed very little compared to what they have stolen from the other great minds - not just from India and China, all over the world - The middle east (especially Israel, Syria, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Uzbekistan etc), the eastern half of Europe( as far as Russia) and also to some extent from Latin America and Africa. The pure-breed whites, however, have contributed in barbaric ways. Most of the wars have been started by them. Forget the Hiroshima, forget the Nazis, take more recent examples - There is a Hiroshima right now in Iraq - More handicapped and disabled children are being born in Falujah than rest of the world combined-(USA, of course, denies that) , Afghanistan was destroyed and most recently in Northern Africa where they got their European pet dogs to wag their tails for them. The pictures of destruction coming from northern Africa were more horrifying than WTC on September 11. Oh and fight terrorism? Don’t make us laugh! Noam Chomsky said the right thing - he pointed out the barbaric activities that was done by USA and Bush. Bush has killed at least a dozen times more than what Laden did - yet, USA didn’t even ask for any permissions before invading Pakistan and Afghanistan. Mr. Chomsky points how they broke International laws! He rightly asked about how USA would react if these countries invaded the white house and killed Bush and left? Hell, they don’t even know how to respect their own heroes! Just look at how they treated BOBBY FISCHER!
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Posted by Bliss on September 21, 2011, 09:04 PM | #
1. Don’t try to lump India with China, you are just flattering yourself. It makes more sense to lump India with Africa. China has done a far better job feeding, educating and employing it’s people than India. 2. it is so typical of Hindus to lie about or callously dismiss the massive hunger and poverty of India like you are doing. How can you live “comfortably” when you are starving or malnourished? Or when you don’t have access to clean water or toilets? There are more far more hungry women and children in India than in all of Africa. Over half of all Indian children are malnourished. Shame on you for pretending they are living comfortable lives! 3. America can easily remain wealthy without immigrants from India. Don’t flatter yourself so much. These Indians should instead be trying to develop their hungry and impoverished motherland which needs them far more than already developed nations like America. 495
Posted by matt on September 21, 2011, 09:36 PM | # R1a most likely originated in western india looking at the Coalescent time estimates for R1a1a(xM458). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987245/?tool=pmcentrez wow, lol this forum started to get pretty crazy with the name calling. I was always been curious about genetics. It doesn’t really matter after all if you are European, Asian or African. 496
Posted by Bliss on September 22, 2011, 05:51 AM | # http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10609407 “Eight Indian states account for more poor people than in the 26 poorest African countries combined, a new measure of global poverty has found. The Indian states, including Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and West Bengal, have 421 million “poor” people, the study found. This is more than the 410 million poor in the poorest African countries, it said.” 497
Posted by Silver on September 23, 2011, 08:02 PM | # Uh,
Well, there were only two sorts of people in the Australia I grew up in: ‘wogs’ and ‘aussies’ (unless you counted the abos…but, well, you know…), and everyone knew it; so, ‘self’-identify, yes, but only after the choice was forced on us; much the same way blacks ‘self-identify’ as niggers/niggas/niggaz. The difference, of course, is that anglos and northern whites are permitted by society to refer to wogs as wogs, and in the presence of wogs and/or to the wog or wogs in question and not raise eyebrows or cause offense. That last bit depends entirely on context, of course. I wouldn’t take offense if I were being rebuked and I knew I was in the wrong, eg cutting off someone in traffic I wouldn’t be at all shocked to hear < > “ya fuckin’ wog!!!” On the other hand, when it’s used as a provocation I’ll admit it has a way of escalating the situation. For example, (true story) walking past a pub one night someone challenged with me, “Can your t-shirt get any tighter, ya fuckin’ wog?” That would have been a provocation even without the ‘ya wog,’ but I probably would have let it go. As it was, well.. the truth is I got my ass soundly kicked that night. Bastards.
Kaffir can work. You can also defend its use on a religious basis, should the need arise. (Its an islamic/arabic term for an ‘unbeliever.’) For me, though, nothing signals supreme racial frustration and disgust like ‘nigger.’
No, if you’re American you don’t even bother with ‘wog.’ The American drawl takes the sting right out of it. The effect is akin to that of pronouncing nigger with an long ‘i’—n-eye-gger. Doesn’t work.
Cutting remark. This is one reason I’m a racist-even-though-I’m-not-all-that-racist: I just can’t stand all the nauseating bullshit spoken about race. Even though I’m convinced that a life lived racially is a life better lived—and which is why I’ll support WNs, even hardass ones, despite my great dislike/wariness of them—I actually find it hard to get worked up over race in real life (except when it comes to nogs [in numbers] and their ways). But when it comes to racial obscurantism—or anti-white animus masquerading as obscurantism—I have to put my foot down. You’re hardly wrong, Uh: things have degraded to the point where even allowing that Aryans existed (or exist) is considered repugnant. It’s virtually a form of ‘reverse white supremacy’ (especially when pushed by Aryans themselves): yes, whites once lived in all these lands and accomplished great feats but this must never be acknowledged, because the weight of such knowledge would simply crush non-whites, delicate little flowers that they are. What rubbish it all is. I want the facts. I’m a big boy, I can take it. If the truth is that Aryans accomplished (and accomplish, but more the former, or so I would argue) pretty much everything of note in this world, then I want to know about it. I couldn’t care less what such truth (allegedly) ‘says’ about me or people like me. Obviously there is no shortage of WN types who like to gleefully claim it means non-whites are useless, inferior vermin, parasites, blah blah, but in reality it’s within every individual’s power to decide for himself whether to value his individual and group existence and to live his life in accordance with such value or not, regardless of what ‘the facts say’ or of what other people think. If anti-racists truly wished to empower people to ‘overcome racism,’ clearly a better way to do so would be to enable individuals and groups to adopt self-valuing attitudes and maintain them and reinforce them over time, rather than to demand that the world change (and in the case of the white world, cease to exist) so that they can feel better about themselves. (I say if anti-racists ‘truly’ wished to help because a large contingent of anti-racists do not truly wish to help at all. ‘Anti-racism’ is just their latest means of prosecuting the revolutionary transformation of society that, for reasons normal people find hard to grasp, they remain ever so keen on. And if they hate racists so much that they can’t help but do everything in their power to ruin racists’ lives, empowering people to ‘overcome racism’ on their own is more powerful here also, if one considers the exasperation of those racists who base their racism on feeling superior—since the thrill of feeling superior dissipates if the party you’re feeling superior to doesn’t seem to care. 498
Posted by C.M. on September 27, 2011, 12:57 PM | # To the hindu “Matt” “R1a most likely originated in western india looking at the Coalescent time estimates for R1a1a(xM458)” matt: Just browse “M45”, just to read your own stupidty. M45 is the overlapping “parental group” of Eurasians which includes Americans Indians, now are you saying that “american Indians” originate from western india ?! How stupid are you? I say it again: R1a and R1b originate in northern China. There are the oldest R1a and R1b lineages, going back to tens of thousands of years. R1b is rediculously young compared to Asian (Chinese) and it’s the same for R1a, oldest R1a is found in Russia, with coalescent age of 12000 years, compare that to Chinese 23000 years. 499
Posted by C.M. on September 27, 2011, 01:13 PM | # I have seen some figures in a report about the coalescent age of R1a and R1b. The oldest European R1a is found in Russia (as expected because Russia is a neighbour of China) then the age diminish westwards. Logical after all, compare it to the branches of a tree. R1b is even younger in some parts of Europe:just a rediculous 3000 years ago that R1b people arrived in countries like Spain and Ireland (youngest). Now it’s not the point where the percentage is the highest as someone said, the percentage is not important, there is a Siberian tribe who whas over 90 percent of R1a, we call this genetic drift. So you can blablabla that Europe has high percentage of R1a and R1b, but that does not mean it originates in Europe. In my previous post I gave this example of N3 of Finnish people: they are in the range of 60% compared to 12.5% in northern China, but does this mean the higher percentage is the place of origin? No, the only thing that is important is the coalescent age of the particular gene, which is also just about 3000-2000 years old. N3 in Europe is the most youngest of all male haplogroups. The N3 in China is much older because it originates there. To claim otherwise is like claiming that the australians are the ancestors of english, just as stupid. A bit of logical thinking in europeans would be wellcome, europeans are people who like to delude themselves with everything. 500
Posted by anon / uh on September 27, 2011, 01:35 PM | #
cf.
By the way, Russia = “Ukraine”. Oops! Back to “Europe” go the Aryanz.
The claim is not that R1a originated in West Europe; but that it originated in the Russian expanse, probably in or around “the borderland”, Ukraine. Whether R1b originated in the Pyrenees or not is out of my specialty. Seems likely given the environmental pressure (LGM) exactly analogous to that which is thought to have seen the birth of R1a in the east. Wait, why the f*ck am I trying to reason with anti-white Chinese supremacist? Tea’s getting cold, Fang To Dong. Time to replenish. Do you like your queue pulled sometimes? I bet you do, naughty naughty chinee. No tickee no pockee. 501
Posted by C.M. on September 27, 2011, 01:46 PM | # The whole idea of ukranian refuge or something is totally stupid. but to get back to r1a, the oldest R1a found in europe is in russia, the oldest R1a of ALL, you stupid moron, is in China! CAN YOU READ?! There was no fucking ukranian refuge in ice age, some moron introduce this idea and the other morons just copy and paste. “Whether R1b originated in the Pyrenees or not is out of my specialty” 502
Posted by anon / uh on September 27, 2011, 03:39 PM | #
I trust any following this screed can hear the shrieking of the little Chinaman as he forces paleohistory into his preferred shape. Uklainian LEFUGE AREUHH?? Some MAW-WAN introduce dat n otha MAW-WANS jes COPY-PAYSS’! COPY-PAYSS’!!! MOTHA!@#$@%!!! Christ, now I have to watch South Park. “Why u open SHITTY SUSHI next to my SHITTY WOK??!!” 503
Posted by Racism is stupid. This blog proves it. on September 29, 2011, 01:10 PM | # This blog is living proof of the stupidity of racism This blog proves why racists are stupid. I am going to write in a manner so that even the less informed person should be able to understand. Basically the only scientifically acceptable evidence we have right now gives a broader picture of the original migration of the human race. We all originated somewhere in Africa and we moved from their along different branches. There are at least half a dozen documentaries like the above one. Just to name a few you can also watch: Basically, we all came from Africa. All non-Africans share a common ancestry as little as 60-70 thousand years back and all human beings in general share a common ancestry as little as 150 thousand years ago. Here is a rough idea map of early man migration. So we are all Africans. This includes the Chinese too, where they are usually brainwashed to believe other things. And how do we know this? There are basically two main ways. One is to look at the Y chromosome and the other is to look at the mt-DNA. Y chromosome is passed from father to father, so it gives paternal lineages and similarly mt-DNA gives the maternal lineage. What we actually look for in this y-chromosome are patterns of mutations or markers which these guys are calling haplogroups - which is the technical term. The thing is, by looking at the overall patterns of distribution of markers along various ethnic groups in various geographic locations one can only get a broader picture of migration like shown in those documentaries(because people have intermixed for long), which is why speculations of realtively recent events like what is made in this blog are useless self-pleasing speculations, nothing more. Moreover, it appears that even the data doesn’t match from one person to another. There is another reason why classifying human beings into races and treating them like different breeds of dogs doesn’t make sense. Consider this - the genetic difference that exists between two nearby groups of chimpanzees in neighbouring forests is more than the genetic difference found within the entire human race. And if anything, dogs should be much more diverse than chimps. Some like C.M are just plain nuts. Others like matt says that they are just curious about genetics (like me), but in reality he too cannot come out of certain racist assumptions. These people have just convinced themselves about some kind of strong relation between certain mutations and intelligence based on certain intuitive feelings developed on the basis of limited observations. Firstly, These markers appeared randomly as human beings branched out from one location to another. For example , if a “white skin” mutation occurs in a small group/branch, all subsequent branches will have white skin. However, very soon each of these branches will acquire many more new mutations and will further branch and mutate. As a result this small similarity of white skin gets overshadowed by other new dissimilar features to call “white skin” a race. Secondly, The human species is too recent to have developed significant genetic differences. Thirdly, It is possible for different genotypes to give rise to similar phenotypes. There are such examples in humans as well. One example is lactose tolerance(milk digestion) in adults. Majority are lactose intolerant- for example, lactose tolerance is extremely rare among east-asians. It is, however, found in certain groups. Two such examples are in northern europeans and eastern africans. Both obtained lactose tolerance independently and at different times(both when they started cattle rearing). So, if you apply this to intelligence, it is entirely possible that one branch of a certain haplogroup is more similar in intelligence to another branch of another haplogroup than to another branch of it’s own haplogroup. And another thing this lactose example shows is how stupid the concept of race is. For example, one can easily build a lactose tolerant “race” instead of “white” race. But no, we don’t look for that - what we look for are certain common sense notions that appeals to us usually related to external appearances. 504
Posted by Racism is stupid. This blog proves it. on September 29, 2011, 01:18 PM | # And another thing this lactose example shows is how stupid the concept of race is. For example, one can easily build a lactose tolerant “race” instead of “white” race. But no, we don’t look for that - what we look for are certain common sense notions that appeals to us usually related to external appearances. There are even more reasons to believe that racists are stupid. One reason is that they tend to believe in genetic determinism- that is, what you become is written in your genes and you can’t change. Forget skills and abilities, even physical traits aren’t completely “determined” by genes. Enter epigenetics. Each of the cells in your body have exactly the same DNA. Then how come your eyes are different from ears or tongue? The answer lies in epigenetics. The so called genes only do things like producing proteins or enzymes. But whether they actually produce that protein can be turned on and off using epigentic codes. The cells in different tissues are different because different genes are turned on and off in different kinds of cells. However, epigenetics isn’t predetermined at birth. The epigenome constantly interacts with with environment. It’s like a medium through which genes and environment interact. Even physical activities and psychological factors like stress can alter epigenome. And epigenome is the reason why identical twins tend to become more and more different as they grow up. There is also some evidence found in certain organisms where the mutation rates can speed up under environmental stress in order to adapt. There are actually mutator genes which can turned on-off with response to environment. There is still a lot to understand about evolution, but one thing these things like epigenetics tell us is how important the environmental factors are. And If you note how genes and environment interact, it is actually meaningless to assert something like a “percentage” to heritability of genes. Because not only is it impossible to provide an exactly identical environment, but different environments may be better for different individuals. Like pointed out earlier, environment and experience are two very different things. And lastly, I will touch upon yet another stupid assumption by racists - which is that IQ is somewhat unchangeable and that it is actually very important.Here is a link to an excellent article: And also remember that the most important part of human evolution isn’t the bigger brain, there are other mammals with bigger brains, rather it’s the fact that they can communicate verbally(vocal chord) and use two hands with an opposable appendage(the thumbs). The evolution of the vocal chord and thumbs is what led to bigger brains because of greater intellectual stimulation. While I have exposed the stupidity of racism, I am sure racists will still exist because human stupidity is infinite and that is what is sad. 505
Posted by anon / uh on September 29, 2011, 01:28 PM | #
The blog is alive?
Anchoring. -1% genetic difference is all that’s necessary to result in phenotypic differences, which also have gross results in modern social contexts, specially adapted to accommodate one or another type, not concurrently.
Your breakfast was recent. Two and a half million years cannot be described as “recent” even grammatically.
Majority does not carry the gene for lactose tolerance. Does not mean they cannot consume dairy. Witness south Indians — gene absent, but they love curd.
506
Posted by matt on September 29, 2011, 02:03 PM | # I completely agree with the above two posts. After all skin color is just one single mutation and it varies all around the world. It is possible for different mutations like lactose tolerance to occur in different parts of the world. After all life might just be a hologram anyways. I guess the whole idea of race is something that has been created as a way to compete for natural resources. Our overly materialistic society is what is giving life to these ideas as people need to reduce competition based on social status, skin color, gender, nation origin etc. Maybe society should place more importance on living in harmony with nature. 507
Posted by Racism is stupid. on September 29, 2011, 04:28 PM | # @anon / uh I don’t think you even understood what I was trying to say. @matt I am glad that you agree. 508
Posted by Graham_Lister on September 29, 2011, 04:51 PM | # @racism is stupid I don’t have time right now to discuss all of your point and it would take quite a long time to point out the misinterpretations, half-truths and omissions in your posts however let me point our this; You obviously know VERY little about social evolution. But forget direct biological arguments. There is overwhelming sociological evidence that ‘diverse’ societies are worse places to live in and that maximally homogeneous societies are those with the highest levels of social-capital, trust and the fewest social pathologies. It is not an accident that Denmark and Japan, for two examples, have excellent scores on the quality of life scale. In fact these relationship hold within nations also: in the USA the most homogeneous states score much higher on social-capital etc. It is a robust empirical observation. This is not my assertion about the superiority/inferiority of any particular ethnic/cultural group rather it would also hold if little green men with 200 IQs were the minority/source of diversity. People do not want to live in overtly diverse societies with ever more socio-cultural cleavages that have deep and potentially explosive political consequences (do you know the history of Indian partition for example?). I would never wish to be anywhere near to being in the non-majority group in my own society. This wish has nothing to do with vulgar racism and everything do to with political and sociological realities. 509
Posted by C.M. on September 30, 2011, 06:58 AM | # To this anon uh yet another fucking moron who is a stupid middle aged old man, thinking he knows it all, including matter of science, you fucking stupid moron, I am a man of science, unlike you fucking retarded old man! I know what I am talking about, but maybe I am wasting my time to try to explain things to a fucking moron who would not understand it anyway. You stupid old man! Solving things of diverse topics is easy for me, including where the indo-european speakers came from (anatolia). Look at the fucking shitty country you are from, it’s full of morons and idiots, they can’t even run their own country, of course it’s full of greedy old men stealing and engage in fraud. yeah. The reason why your sorry little country is such a mess because democracy is a sham, it should be called oligarchy instead (rule by rich people) but of course you are too stupid to understand this. No wonder why western culture is crap! Watching “southpark” is for morons and you are one of them! I can beat the crap out of you easily, old man. 510
Posted by C.M. on September 30, 2011, 11:09 AM | # thsi moron anon uh stupid old man living in his fantasy world, watching “southpark”...no wonder this stupid idiot is clueless. remember moron, I am from undefeated China, not from your useless colonies. Wed on’t give a fuck about america and the west and that’s the truth, ask any Chinese about that and they won’t even know what’s the capital of england, so insignificant is europe. we can stick our middle finger into the face of america and americans know that. I mean what’s is it like for europeans to be bossed around by americans in the same fashion as auxiliaries fighting american wars. In case of taiwan crisis I hope that americans will caome to the rescue of taiwan ordering their europeans to come along, we will crush you like insects! 511
Posted by C.M. on September 30, 2011, 11:17 AM | # useless fucking americans with your worthless dollar, the whole country is just a concept, stealing all the land from the indians, and these stupid laowei want to say something about “tibet”. fucking shit americans, nuking you from here to eternity is the only right thing to do for this planet. 512
Posted by C.M. on September 30, 2011, 11:24 AM | # Only the indians are entitled to america, you build up the country with its infrastructure, well break it all down and give the land back to indians before you start to whine about immigration of mexicans and other people. Hand the land back to the indians and then go back to the place of your ancestors. Then we can talk about “tibet” and “taiwan”. 513
Posted by C.M. on September 30, 2011, 11:34 AM | # Or better give back alaska to the eskimos or give back at least half of “usa” to the indians. I have a better idea, maybe everybody should go back to their ancestral lands, australians go back to the london jails, “americans” go back to sicily, ireland and greece etc. Brilliant idea, let’s all go back, black “americans” go back to nigeria and “american"jews go back to israel. america should not exist. 514
Posted by Matt Parrott on September 30, 2011, 01:38 PM | #
China has a couple decades of progress and prosperity after centuries of FAIL and that’s all they need to get their Middle Kingdom mojo back. China is a seething mass of hundreds of millions of men with inferiority complexes, a historically unprecedented subset of whom will never get laid due to structural imbalances in their demographic profile. I’ve got a smart idea. Let’s borrow a shit ton of money from them then stiff them on it, hand our entire military-industrial infrastructure over to them, have our most pathetic losers pick off enough of their women to refocus their sexual frustration in our direction, then load up our military with a motley assortment of foreign mercenaries, bumbling negroes, homosexuals, and assorted perverts and freaks. What could possibly go wrong? 515
Posted by Leon Haller on September 30, 2011, 04:37 PM | # Fortunately, the Chinese government appears to be led by men a good deal wiser than this CM idiot, though I don’t doubt that he does represent a sizable contingent of the men in the street. Anyway, we must all be eternally grateful for Deng’s one-child policy. China’s population will grow smaller in the future, though the sheer population imbalance is so great that China will become the world’s dominant power, especially if white men keep building up their economy for them (if Lister really understood the force of his own anti-Hayekian critique, he would be directing his fire at the theoretical assumptions behind tolerance of this suicidal aspect of economic globalism - lowering short term labor costs at the expense of long term national security, parasiting off a secure future, as it were). 516
Posted by Lurker on October 01, 2011, 02:25 AM | #
You’re being way too generous to him Leon! 517
Posted by Desmond Jones on October 01, 2011, 02:27 AM | #
Maybe not.
http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/pictures/chinese-men-with-black-women-african-wives.html 518
Posted by paul on October 01, 2011, 03:45 AM | # The one-child policy may not have actually worked as well as believed. There was a report on Al Jazeera which can be seen on YouTube about how when China started its one-child policy 30 years ago, they selected one of their cities as a control group for a secret experiment to see what would happen if families had the freedom to have more than one child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9kdQLQYT5w They found that the population in that city has actually grown at a slower rate than the national average. 519
Posted by paul on October 01, 2011, 03:52 AM | # The control city also has a more even gender balance than the national average. 520
Posted by keep lol on October 03, 2011, 06:25 AM | # Lol the chinese are smarter—thats why they make stuff on the factory floor pushing buttons on imported automated machines that Indians happened to program working in a office drinking quality coffee. You know why White people don’t mind calling you smart? cause your busy doing their manual labor for them and then giving them the money you earned so they can blow it on coke and pussy—gotta keep the help content! I forgot though, Indians are really crappy engineers/techs and the only reason they are hired is to drive prices down because the really smart White engineers are too proud to work for that type of pay and instead flip burgers—a process that could be automated if only someone with engineering skills was around…0.o Seriously though—-White American people are lucky that their military/industrial power complex has some love for them and actively tries to redistribute advantage in multiple indirect forms—not really true for other societies. 521
Posted by Puccini on October 03, 2011, 10:07 PM | # “Lol the chinese are smarter—thats why they make stuff on the factory floor pushing buttons on imported automated machines that Indians happened to program working in a office drinking quality coffee. “ That’s right. Programming is Indian’s forte. Bow to the IT superpower: 522
Posted by still Lol on October 04, 2011, 01:17 AM | # Competitions, tests, scientific studies—heard of reality? What part of keeping the help content are you failing to perceive? Even the Mexicans catch on faster than you lot. 523
Posted by Rikshay on October 05, 2011, 03:39 PM | # WOW!!! u ppl r racist barstards!!! Im a South African Hindu of Indian decent( half Dravidian and half Brahmin) - 16 years- and ive got an IQ of 135- how can u generallize the iq of a nation with over 800 000 of its ppl are living in poverty…........India and China are both very successful nations in their own right…...India and China is the base of International Civilization…...Europeans were too busy being barbaric and conquring nations and stealing their wealth…........India was the wealthiest country b4 the brits f’d the country up!!!Actsof violence!!! - is that what the bible teaches you? 524
Posted by meh on October 06, 2011, 06:21 PM | # It’s amazing how this discussion was started in 2005 and people are still posting(me included). 525
Posted by Dot Buster on October 07, 2011, 12:18 AM | # All the statistics show that Indian people are stupid, on average. And the self proclaimed IT superpower turns out to be an IT non-superpower (see the post by Puccini on October 04, 2011, 02:07 AM). Yet these dirty desi has the gall to call American people unemployable, destroying great American company one by one and turned it into curry den. “...American tech grads are ‘unemployable’...” - Vineet Nayar, CEO, HCL Technologies 526
Posted by sampan on October 13, 2011, 04:28 AM | # @anon 527
Posted by James on October 19, 2011, 03:36 PM | # Both Indians and Chinese do extremely well economically outside their home countries” Yes, they do extremely well when they get to invade and take over jobs created by WHITES but when it comes to doing well INSIDE their own countries, they don’t do too well. Any bank robber can ‘do well’ if there’s a pile of $ waiting to be grabbed. But to create that success from scratch on their own - well that they’re not so good at. Without the jobs of western white industry, Indians and Chinese would still be sitting in the mud puddle. Don’t mistake simply taking over what others have created as “being successful”. 528
Posted by yo on November 03, 2011, 10:01 PM | # well in india u can see 70 percent of them dont go to school and learn somewhat education, if u go to the areas where people are well off and study then u ll find out they re the smartest around. peace also in china communism is making everyone go to school and therefore kids are getting to know a lot more then poor democratic indian kids. If you look in history india has invented so much that greek and china are like students for india. no disrespect but u go search about indians. Also in chinese bcuz they look not so good they sudy hard to show they r smart , indians have a good culture of partying and good looking people so people are democratic thinkers. 529
Posted by Lurker on November 04, 2011, 12:56 AM | #
Why dont you provide us with a list? 530
Posted by oberver on November 09, 2011, 10:03 AM | # This whole india /china iq debate might have a bigger impact in future-but for now what i have seen in average china will probably beat india(if i take the whole country average).But in this part of the world(more appropriately south east asia)what i have seen the bengal(which was undivided tiil british raj) has produced best scientist,literature,reformer,philosopher etc.the city calcutta/kolkata as i have seen produced two of best scientist from entire east-sn.bose and jc.bose.plus this city had won in four different category as asia’s first nobel prize,and has more nobel ,oscar,grammy than any other city from asia.japan’s tokyo will be off course in very same league.but calcutta won it’s first nobel prize in 1902 where japan won in 1949.now in short span bangladesh has produced engineer fazlur khan,economist nobel prize winner md.yunus)plus grat director satyajit roy(oscar winner),ravishankar(who had a great impact on beatles) were also from this region.what i have seen the entire republic of china and entire india(excluding bengal and it’s capital kolkata)havenot produced these many luminaries.the pan average iq of bangladeshi will be in probably less than 90 and for bengal in india(mostly hindu dominated) will have an average of100+-and most importantly their origination is from mongoloid or indo/indo-european race.so why this particular ethnic have progressed that much while othe big cities from south or east asia(except japan)hadnot been able to do the same? 531
Posted by To Observer and Sampan on November 09, 2011, 12:54 PM | #
I am a Bengali myself , but I hate the Bengali arrogance. But in any case, since I will mention a few names from Bengal that hasn’t been mentioned. Anyway, the MAIN MAN behind Google’s really fast searching is an INDIAN. And I agree with the guy called Racism is stupid. It really is stupid! 532
Posted by To Sampan and Observer on November 09, 2011, 01:24 PM | # Oh I forgot to mention another name: 533
Posted by Heads on November 09, 2011, 01:33 PM | # This is about the “big brains” of Chinese. 534
Posted by observer on November 09, 2011, 02:02 PM | # @to sampan and observer. what those fuckin rest of indian have really done-oh yeah chineese also hadnot done much.but they will do in next few decades-but i don’t think indian going to catch up with the chineese any way-because the attitude they show in us and off course arrogance(without really doing much)-it certainly not gonna help the country anyway-remember this. 535
Posted by kdon27 on November 10, 2011, 07:48 PM | # There is much to be said about social intelligence - academia can only go so far in strengthening one’s position in what we currently view as “human life”. However, for the human *race* to advance as a whole and achieve Type 1 civilisation, the emphasis should be shifted slightly to understanding our place in the world and indeed the universe. Our existence is futile, the billions of stars are a testament to that. But our ability to survive and our unwavering dedication to explore and achieve can outlive the universe. In other words, we should be focused on improving ourselves as a species rather than widening the rift between races and causing division, a path that will only end in chaos and eventual death of our species. “We have the ability to reach the Type 1 civilisation and once we do so, the universe is a stone’s throw away. The danger zone is the chaotic imbalance between a Type 0 civilisation (what we are) and a Type 1 civilisation (what we aspire to me)”. 536
Posted by To observer and Sampan on November 10, 2011, 08:31 PM | # @observer Ashok Sen is the string theorist, isn’t it? Well, String theorists realistically don’t have any chance of winning the Nobel.
It’s these kinds of comments that I hate.
To give you an example, let’s take football. 537
Posted by observer on November 11, 2011, 01:45 PM | # @posted by observer and sampan 538
Posted by To observer and sampan on November 12, 2011, 09:08 AM | #
@observer But beyond this, I can’t really agree with you much. Sure, our Indian cultures aren’t always perfect, but if you are saying that a culture from a 1st world country is automatically better, I disagree. I can create a wall of text to write down their many defects, but I will state only one. Apparently, in several studies from USA and Australia it has been found that more than 15% of married men in those countries are not the biological fathers of their child and they are not even aware of it. I had to really recheck the figures again and again. No, it wasn’t 0.15% , but 15%(25% in some studies). And I find it funny that you attack the same two guys (likely north indians) who complemented you for being a Bengali. I haven’t read those posts in details, but it seems to me that the hate is more from your side than their side. You have just assumed that they all hate you without any proof. I hate to hate people for no good reason. Many top physicists believed that his work his work was worth a Nobel prize. And in fact, it did indirectly lead to some Nobel prizes. About Ashok Sen, the reason why string theorists don’t get the Nobel prize is because there is no known way to test the theory experimentally. Remember, Einstein didn’t get a Nobel for relativity (he got it for photoelectric effect), Eddington did. 539
Posted by observer on November 12, 2011, 12:45 PM | # @to observer and sampan 540
Posted by To observer and sampan on November 14, 2011, 10:22 AM | # @ observer Well, I think at this point we have converged a bit with our opinions. And I too like Beethoven, Mozart and Beatles. So, I agree that there are many good things in the west. (And “west” itself can be divided into many subcultures - all very different). I also many times like chinese traditional music and arts. But I will explain two areas where we differ in opinions. Firstly, I will explain why I am being patriotic. Secondly, I will explain why I think this board is racist.
You said that Chinese are so humble. May be so, but most Chinese in this blog certainly aren’t. And these kinds of posts annoy me. Because this is fighting racist attacks by diverting the attacks onto another group.“we are innocent, they are the culprits” attitude. Someone named Graham pointed out that “homogenous populations” do better than “diverse populations”. May be so, may be not, but I will argue that “diversity” is only in the mind. If we want to improve our nation, then firstly we have to think ourselves as one group -Indians - not “western Brahman”. And secondly, we have to forget the past glories and move towards a desirable future with full energy- just like what you said about Swami Vivekananda. I think there is hope, because some of the most anti-racist and progressive comments here also came from Indians. 2)However, we definitely interpret this blog and its intentions and its commenting people’s intentions differently. Rushton is not a well respected scientist. Only in the realms of pseudoscience and racist propaganda is Rushton a well respected charlatan. He talks about genes and biology when he in fact is neither a geneticist nor a qualified biologist, not to mention he has been debunked by various professionals in the field. The only ones who drool when they hear Rushton speak are hereditarians, who need mediocre biology in order to sustain their pathetic claims of racial superiority of one group. The original article started with somewhat curious standpoint. And blamed lack of education - which I can agree with. But then it ended on a racist note , saying things like “I suspect that the negritos may be the culprit”. What does that mean? I will ask something similar to what he asked - “What’s wrong with other people?”. It’s the individual qualities that matter. And as long as someone is respectful, humble and progressive why do I have to reject or hate someone simply on the basis of that person’s origin? 541
Posted by observer on November 15, 2011, 02:38 PM | # A coin has two sides-head and tail. if we go through the world history it mesmerizes us the fight between good and evil.wheather it’s between God and the Satan and people like Eve tries to taste the bad fruit-and from then it gets… no human race in the world is perfect-only God and Demon can be perfect.we do good things,do bad things,we give our lives for others,and the same human who takes millions of lives within a minute.when everybody will be perfect,on that day human Civilization will come to an end.that’s why in Mahabharatha,after the end of war the Pandava’s couldnot reach in the path of immortality-only Yudisthir with the God(yes the God is so kind to every creatures of the earth that he doesnot hesitate to come as a ‘dog’). oh!Already i have written lots of bullshit today-sorry,but can’t help!!!sudden awakening of some spiritual emancipation. but i guess u have got the answer of first two and half paragraph of your last post. back to business-the south indian guy who attacked ashok(probably bangladeshi) as calling him a mythslater is just another mongrel-that jerk doesnot have any idea about jc bose or sn bose.john bardeen won 2 nobel in physics,einstein didnot won more than one(that also not for special theory of relativity)and nikola tesla who deserved atleast half a dozen nobel prizes didnot win because of his feud with edison.richard feynman called nobel a pain in the neck.both bose won their biggest award when they invented and discovered-yes that’s the biggest award for any scientist which jc bose said.but iknow those dumb tamil guy hasnot got that sort of intelligence to understand this fact.secondly,sampan sais calcutta had produced more luminaries than entire china-and what is the problem to accept this truth.i as a calcuttan can proudly say we have produced better talent than many of so called first world’s city.i think only british people those who have knowledge about indian sub continent will also agree with me.but rest of the world doesnot know much about it. thirdly,kerala has 93% literacy,tamilnadu has 82% literacy-but two of india’s most backward state mizoram which has 90% literacy,and himachal has 83% literacy(all according to 2011 stat’s).so what the hell literacy percentage really say?even all muslim arabian country has above 80% literacy-what is their input to current world? and i don’t know much about ruston,but hopefully from next time onward if any iq list come from india-i want to see it in race wise,i.e-like iq of assamesse,bengali,bihari,tamil,punjabi etc.because india is a mixture of various countries. i think what jeff mentioned about indian brahmin and jewish american perfectly depicts the whole situation-the brahmin has an iq of 115-120 which is even higher than jewish.but unfortunately the neglected lower cast people and muslim’s who is almost about 80% of india’s population is the reason of average iq of 86. visit steve sailer’s blog of indian iq. and yes-people of china love to hide behind the tag as east asian.but so is the case with third category and even second category european countries who love to hide as european instead of stating their nationality-but a british,german,french,or russian will never do this.because of this first category european countries all europe get a good name- how many jewels turkey,portugal,spain or norway had produced. and finally regarding all racist comment-i guess i have already given the answer in the beginning of my reply today. finally,i must say it’s been an awesome pleasure to talk with u through this lifeless machine over past week-and remember one think we bengali love this sort of intellectual discussion-so i will not tag it as an argument. and most importantly all the replies i had given assuming u as my friend-i don’t know ur status and may be u r older than my father.so with all those replies if i had insulted u by any means please forgive me-because i am still in my early 20’s. GOOD BYE. 542
Posted by ani on November 16, 2011, 01:53 AM | # well im an indian and i dont know what is my IQ level… all i know 85% of indian population are struggling for 3 basic needs..FOOD, CLOTHS AND SHELTER.. so expecting high IQ level from them is nothing but a dumb idea… Chinese claim they has high IQ level…but they made empty multi storied buildings in Beijing just to show their bright image to the world in Olympics…for that so many poor lost their home and kicked out from Beijing….if this is the outcome of high IQ then its good to have low IQ.. Brit Americans also have high IQ…good for them…they need it for OIL, DIVIDE n RULE and using 3RD WORLD human resource (read : poverty) for their growth.. a big fact is a 10 yrs old Indian boy posses more iq than a 30 yrs old american…(call center fact n i worked there).. IQ is nothing but man made some questions and procedure to determine the brain’s working…and if u want ur brain working good then u need good bank balance, good food, good cloths, good home, good education….85% of Indian population don’t have that….so i am ok with low IQ level of INDIAN POPULATION.. after 200 yrs of british rule in 64 yrs (after independence) we made such a progress in economy as a whole, according to the economists (usa economists) India will overcome USA in 25-30 yrs in GDP…and usa economy is stuck now…its going down and down… the thing is there are lots of things that makes a country…not IQ…. AND as a whole INDIA is INCREDIBLE….those who doubt it..come n visit INDIA…spend 2 months travelling different parts of india…u ll love n admire INDIA along with its low IQ…:) 543
Posted by To observer and sampan on November 16, 2011, 02:31 AM | # Haha, don’t worry, I am the same age as you. Sorry if I sounded all intellectual and intimidated you. I was a bit surprised with those literacy stats. I was sure I heard somewhere that the two southern states have close to 100% literacy rate. But I guess it wasn’t a very reliable source. But it still doesn’t change my opinion about education, because quality of education matters much more than number of people being educated. Bengal and Tamil Nadu have two of the oldest and most well established education systems. That’s partly thanks to the fact that Calcutta was the capital of British colony and similarly Tamil Nadu was for a period the French colony. And that did help in our success.
Success and failure depends on a lot of factors. Have you read “outliers” by Malcolm Gladwell? Read it!
So, think about that Feynman video that I posted - what Feynman said about Honors and uniforms. (On a side note, I was a always a big fan of Tintin in Bangla. I grew up reading tintin comics and Bengalis in general like him. Today, I saw this bengali magazine which has Tintin wearing dhuti-panjabi on the cover. I couldn’t help but think that this is how we our Bengali culture knows how make good things from outside their own. After all, we Bengalis have the same spirit of adventure that he has.) Anyway, it was nice talking with you. 544
Posted by observer on November 16, 2011, 11:48 AM | # @sampan and observer 545
Posted by To observer on November 17, 2011, 10:10 PM | # You are right about the capacity of a 10 year old. I thought I somehow gave you the impression of being a 60 year old. Anyway, I wans’t talking about just sports. Picasso is not a sports-person. Art requires intellect. So does chess. And that’s not even the point.
As for weaknesses, I think we should look at our own weaknesses first. If we want to improve, we should be our best critic. The weaknesses we should be looking for are weaknesses in methods, not who are weak groups of people. Also, I will be dropping sampan . I read some of his posts. I was inititally annoyed by his boasting, but he never really seriously insulted anyone.
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Posted by Banana on November 18, 2011, 04:04 AM | # As a first-time reader of this thread, I have to say there are some superbly insightful posts here amid a sea of complete tosh. Many of the posts comparing China and India seem to focus on the current situation: China’s rise and India’s stagnation as the West declines. It’s worth pointing out, I think, that there’s no indication that India will ever be anything more that it currently is. It’s completely irrelevant in the modern world, and it’s hard to see any relevance for India even within the next century. Put bluntly, if India disappeared from the face of the Earth at midnight tonight, hardly anyone would notice and even fewer would care. China, on the other hand, has in 20 years made itself a kingpin of the world economy. What’s interesting is that there seems to be nothing to restrain this growth. China is just so good at everything that there’s little reason for India or other Asian nations to even bother tooling up to compete. China’s technological prowess has advanced at such a breakneck speed that it is now capable of space research and aeronautical engineering. Airbus already has a plant in China and Boeing is likely to follow suite. With the transfer of technology that will take place, Chinese domestic manufacturers will emerge in a position to compete with the “big two.” In other words, you’re going to flying on Chinese-made jets pretty soon. The Chinese have earned respect from the West for their transition from “international basket case” just 100 years ago to the economic and technological superpower that it is today. The question is: what has India been doing all this time? Everything that India aspires to do, the Chinese have already done it. There just isn’t any need for another major player in world affairs. That means that if India ever decides that it doesn’t want to be an international basket case, then it’s going to have to do it alone. Sorry guys, you missed the bus. 547
Posted by observer(TOOK LOTS OF HELP FROM POST OF SAMPAN) on November 18, 2011, 08:12 AM | # @To sampan and observer well!final post from me.finally both of us are agreeing in most of the facts-it wasnot the case when we started. regarding abel-i can say just because there is an award in his name doesnot put him in the class of eulear,gauss,newton,leibnitz or ramanujan. it is worldwide known fact today that real genius is born in field of creative and artistic field and in literature-not in science.in england there was a say if Shakespeare would have wanted to become Newton he could have,but if Newton would have wanted to become Shakespeare,he could not have made it. rabindranath tagore apart from two national song also wrote the lyrics of srilankan national anthem nama nama matha,which was translated to their language. regarding national language,most of us don’t know that india don’t have any national language.i also knew it was hindi,but a tamil guy once rectified me,and later checked it-he was right-hindi and english are our official language. now the most important point-I THINK THE TIME HAS COME FOR ME TAKE BACK MY OWN WORDS.I SAID PEOPLE FROM CHINA ARE HUMBLE_NO THEY ARE NOT!!! actually most of the post in this blog has come from very ordinary with least amount of knowledge. ONE OF THE BIGGEST NERD WAS C.M AND NOW IN THE ABOVE POST_DUDE JUST LIKE INDIA IF CHINA IS BEING DESTROYED TODAY NOBODY WILL FEEL YOUR PRESENCE APART FROM OLYMPIC. finally going to the point which SAMPAN STATED THAT CITY CALCUTTA WILL SINGLE HANDEDLY BEAT ENTIRE CHINA_THAT CITY HAS PRODUCED FOUR NOBEL AS ASIA"S FIRST AND MANY NOBEL PRIZE WINNING WORKS IN MEDICINE(ALL FROM ENTIRE ASIA WHICH SAMPAN MENTIONED)PHYSICS AND OFF COURSE ONE OF GREATEST INVENTION OF ALL TIME BY SIR J.C BOSE.CHINA HAD NOT PRODUCED A SINGLE NOBEL APART FROM PEACE WORKING IN CHINA. SO ALL YOU CHINESE BAD ASS WHO ARE BOASTING HOW MANY FIELD MEDAL OR DUMB MEDAL YOU HAVE WON I TELL YOU WHAT-THE CITY CALCUTTA IS BETTER THAN YOUR ENTIRE FUCKIN CHINA. and please don’t think that people of west love you-in us most of the students tell that in paper based subject test of gre /sat-u guys do cheating.and if you go through the comments from people of west in this blog-you will find it.
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Posted by To observer on November 18, 2011, 02:13 PM | # Well, if that was your final post, then I guess there is no point in continuing the discussion. And in that case this will be my final post as well. Anyway, I am glad you and I agreed on most issues. I will still say a couple of things- I don’t know how to measure the class of a mathematician, but Abel’s work really was of phenomenal importance. He opened the pathway to what is known as abstract algebra. And before him there was a blind search for quintic(5th degree) equations for centuries and no one could make a dent on this very important problem. Abel was the first person to show that you can’t solve the quintic using “normal” ways. Nope, I am pretty sure Hindi IS the national language because I have read it in books published by the National Council of Education, as well as reading it in GK books. The constitution of India in 1950 originally stated hindi as THE “official language”. English was much later added as a “subsidiary official language” precisely because a large number of Tamil and and also many Telugu speakers failed to accept Hindi as the official language. So, what the Tamil dude told you is hardly surprising.
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Posted by To observer on November 18, 2011, 04:29 PM | # OK, I just realized that you were talking about the “national language” and not “official language” which I always thought could be used interchangeably.
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Posted by Sunny on November 21, 2011, 03:52 AM | # The following is all just hypothesis from what I gathered so far. I think, as it relates to the concentrating of intelligence in the higher Hindu castes, the idea of an Ashkenazi-esque late IQ boom would do well in explaining the evolutionary transcendence of the upper Brahmin class (given that I doubt any group of any class entering India had IQ levels so high!), but I also feel this transcendence also evolved by a selection bias towards the genes of certain groups that proved to be better fit in India’ environment (ie, preference for the appearance of the lighter invaders). This explains the historic racism - in a way, it had to do with ancient Indian’s seeing the coincidental intelligence (along with other advantageous traits) and light skin/caucasoid appearance of their invaders and concluding that whiteness brings better luck (when it was really other traits that brought the invaders’ success). But, I also feel that lighter skin and a more Caucasoid appearance was to be favored regardless by the mechanism of sexual selection - its just that what I stated in the last sentence probably intensified this selection. My point - So you see, I just don’t trust views of the caste system being primarily a racist motive - I feel it was the first successful eugenics project, that had the primary objective of preserving and promoting the more advantageous genes in the very uneven gene pool present in India from some ancient time/event (uneven due to the sudden emergence of populations that had met after thousands of years of separate evolutionary pathways coming out of Africa or wherever). Like any form of artificial selection, these selection mechanisms weren’t perfect, nor do I think the attempt at eugenics was deliberate - but I will say there must have been some subconsciously felt crisis of losing the evolutionary advantages that some groups possessed, which prodded these groups to save their traits by some means. Normally this is done by killing and exterminating the enemy, but in this rare instance, it was done by tolerating the enemy as long as a social setting could be created where this enemy couldn’t damage the dominant social groups gene pool. Here’s how all this relates to the paradox of Southern India having a higher IQ: India’s social strategy of isolating and concentrating favored genes into higher castes meant that, to some extent, darker skin in potential mates COULD have been overlooked and tolerated in the interest of inculcating other, more important premium traits that some darker individuals offered, eg, intelligence, vitality, and so forth (in their breeding methods, ie, arranged marriage). In other words, classic India could have relaxed racial intermixing taboos when the tradeoff was worth enduring for other premium traits (and obviously racial taboos WERE broken, which figures why no caucasion subclass remains in India). We can all imagine the most important premium traits generally had to do with superior wit. So, moving along to the point - Why believe this? What does this explain? A lot. This explains why South Indian upper caste Brahmins have higher IQ’s than the ones in North India. Its possible that North India had a mean higher avg. gene pool (from outside invaders) to begin with, but South Indians may have had a more successful caste system that took its relatively lower IQ gene pool (in the beginning) and more efficiently packed the better part of that gene pool into its elite castes. So we have two simultaneous evolutionary mechanisms occurring throughout India hitherto: one to North India’s greater advantage (better genetic pool w/regard to IQ conducive traits), and the other to South India’s (better genetic selection though out of a poorer gene pool). I suppose contemporary IQ results show that the mechanism dominating South India won out on the whole, explaining the higher IQ of their Brahmin class. What explains South India’s darker skinned Brahmins? The darker skin of Southern Indians Brahmins seems to be a remnant of the fact that it had fewer of the “high IQ” Caucasion invaders in the beginning (compared to their Northern counterparts). However, these South Indian Brahmins were probably better able to extract the best genes out of this group and proliferate them by…...I suppose a marriage system that is/was very cerebral selective (and I mean just as well with the indigenous population (thus it was perhaps a geekier culture, ie, “please marry with my daughter, o nerdy high caste one. In addition to her melodious voice and fine cooking skills, my lower so and so caste daughter is also nerdy and can keep up with your wits”)). Incredible. The ancient Indians were so brilliant. You may call them cruel, but I believe the founders of their culture could have been 1000x worse if they wished. In those days, anywhere on civilized earth, living a complete, dignified, happy life was probably a rare luxury. Again, note this is all just a hypothesis and I am not an academic expert on any subject. This view just made so much sense to me, and I’ve had this in minds for years - so I had to speak out. 551
Posted by Blues on November 22, 2011, 07:26 PM | # Wow, a lot of comments about the Indian “caste system”. It’s funny that so many westerners talk about Indian “caste system”. I have lived in INDIA my entire life and I have NEVER seen anyone being discriminated or bad-mouthed because of his or her caste. I never even thought that it was such a big issue until I started reading the comments here. For example, there is no such word equivalent of “nigger” or “monkey” in India to refer to lower castes. It’s like people are looking for an excuse - “Look how evil those Indians are- they have a caste system!”. LOL! 552
Posted by Republicrat on November 22, 2011, 09:25 PM | # What a load of crap, Blues. Calling somebody an ‘untouchable’ in India is equivalent to calling somebody a ‘nigger’ here. I can tell you from personal experience that Indians do not take being called an untouchable very lightly. 553
Posted by ex-uh on November 23, 2011, 07:40 AM | # No high-caste Hindu calls any low-caste Hindu “untouchable”. They call them: Dalit
Because it works so smoothly.
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Posted by Bliss on November 23, 2011, 05:30 PM | #
Actually it’s the people living to the west of India such as afghans, Persians, Greeks etc who were called mlecchas or barbarians by the Hindu Brahmins. Even the punjabis at one time were called mlecchas. It has nothing to do with caste. Also the Brahmins themselves are what would be considered “niggers” in the west. And they created their gods and goddesses in their own image: the black goddess Kali and the black god Krishna 555
Posted by Bliss on November 23, 2011, 05:35 PM | #
You are obviously a shameless and stupid liar. In other words a typical Hindu. Stupid because anyone can google and find out the truth… 556
Posted by Bliss on November 23, 2011, 05:48 PM | #
So says the black south Indian Brahmin Yes it was so brilliant of the brahmins to conceive of the ridiculous caste system, the cruel and indefensible animal and human sacrifices of the Vedas, the burning alive of widows, temple prostitution, child marriage, and numerous other evil practices and silly superstitions. 557
Posted by Bliss on November 23, 2011, 06:12 PM | #
Another irrational low IQ deluded Hindu. The world knows that your Calcutta is synonymous with shithole. You should be ashamed to be from such a horrible place. The Bengalis are probably the poorest, most malnourished people on the planet. It must have taken a shit load of “talented” calcuttans to achieve that. And even your educated compatriots think it makes sense to sacrifice goats to the black goddess Kali. If the British hadn’t banned it you would still be sacrificing humans to Kali! And burning your widows alive! All the Bengalis you keep boasting of were educated by the British. What have you done since your masters abandoned you? 558
Posted by jacob on November 23, 2011, 06:35 PM | # IQ tests, test intellectual conformity, not creativity and originality. This would explain the Asian high IQ’s. They as a people are the ultimate conformists. In IQ tests there is typically only one answer to the problem. That problem being a social conformity to reason. But everyone knows that Genius’s and all of the greatest developments in the world are not the product of conformity. Conformity never breeds creativity. We can see this in the lack of influence the Asian population has had on Science. China used to be called the “sick man” of Asia. Their population is massive and their contribution to innovation is almost nil. We can see this lack of originality in their adoptation of European philosophies, I.e. Communism. Friedrich Nietzsche and other Philosophers have critized Asians. Nietsche used the words “Pallid osification” to describe Orientals. Pallid: lacking sparkle or liveliness. Osification: The process of becoming set and inflexible in behavior, attitudes, and actions. Inflexible conformity, rigid unthinking acceptance of social conventions. The reality is Asian people have yet to understand that laws and rules are arbitrary. Europeans make the rules and Asian’s follow them. It also doesn’t make sense that Asian’s are considered smart because of the fact that they have destroyed their own countries. This is due to over-population and their basic lack of enviromental understanding. It is also common scientific fact that women who have many children are ignorant, and those who have less children are more intelligent. This has already been proven in studies. So it seems strange to say that Asians are smart when the obviousness of their backwards countries, and medieval lifestyle makes them contrary to that premise. Europeans have the most advanced civilizations and every other race has yet to meet these levels other than the Japanese. The Japanese only being good at copying other people’s inventions and making them better. Other than that their original creativity is lacking as well. They took American cars and made them better. They took the German camera and made it better. And they took German steel and made it better. Otherwise the greatest advances still come from Europeans and Jews. Other than that the Orientals have yet to produce an Einstein or a Thomas Edison. When it comes to Black people. It makes sense that they have low intellectual comformity, I.e. IQ tests. They are far too creative to be trapped in this unoriginal form of conditioning. You can tell their creative capacity in their athletics, music, dance, and the way they talk. They by far exceed the Asiatic races in these areas. Being better singers, musicians ect. Blacks far exceed Asians in emotive expression. In all of North America there is only one or two famous high-paid Asian actors. 559
Posted by debutant on November 24, 2011, 01:14 PM | # @bliss 560
Posted by observer on November 24, 2011, 01:44 PM | # @bliss well well well-look this mongrel bliss had again made a comeback in this blog.i went through ur comments from earlier posting-and realised just like that c.m idiot(may be he is ur dear one),ur another fool chinese living in calcutta-who even after mixing with intellectual bengalis,can’t speak a single sentence in english.already debutant had given u the answer-i promised that i will not post again-but considering ur sadistic condition-i tell u that my iq is not low-it’s more than every goofy dumb chinese or vietnamese living in calcutta-dude 6 years ago when i tested,it was 173-and for shake of ur information-i can solve arithmatic problems which an average brain takes atleast 5 minutes,within 30 seconds even without calculator-but i did not go any stupid math contest like imo-and for shake of ur information i am right now a physics doctorate student in one of the ivy league university in us. and for last time i will again remind all chinese jerk in this blog-that the city calcutta is enough to beat ur entire fuckin china or vietnam. 561
Posted by observer on November 24, 2011, 02:50 PM | # @debutant regarding giving goat to god-well although it’s an obsolete custom today,but still better than eating snakes or cockroach.or lot better than killing millions of people which u muslim terrorist do all over the world. but irrespective of a pakistani goat or a chinese u r-the fact of the matter remain same-that calcutta is better than both those shithole called pakistan or relatively better china.and remember hindu bengalis are way more richer compared to average per capita income of the country-it’s migrant from backward non bengali states like up,bihar-who costitute nearly 48% population of calcutta make the city filthy and dirty(amongst which 30 percent muslim goat are there). and bengali hindu’s have more high iq than any other ethnic in south asia or compared to chinese. 562
Posted by Bliss on November 25, 2011, 11:10 AM | #
Thanks for the laugh. A doctorate student in an Ivy League college indeed You come across as a stupid, shameless, mentally unbalanced, pathologically deluded liar whose IQ cannot possibly be even half of what you claim. So pathetic, and so typical of Hindu Internet warriors. Now go sacrifice a goat to Kali, genius, and rub it’s blood on your forehead as your superior bengali hindu culture demands. 563
Posted by Bliss on November 25, 2011, 12:14 PM | #
Liar. He had no authority to ban that evil brahminical practice. Thank the enlightened British rulers for forcing an end to that ancient Hindu tradition…..over the very passionate objections of the orthodox Brahmins of Calcutta who even sent a delegation all the way to England to try to stop this “interference in our religious customs”! In brahminism killing widows is apparently a religious duty! Some Orthodox Hindus have been trying to revive this heinous “religious custom” in British-free India. There is only word to describe a religion that kills innocent, helpless women, teaches human and animal sacrifice in it’s most sacred scripture, degrades 20% of it’s adherents as untouchables and another 60% as servants by birth, and other wickedness. That word is: EVIL. Rammohan Roy had come under the influence of British Christians and tried to reform Hinduism: he rejected the polytheism, casteism, idol worship, child marriage, widow burning etc of orthodox brahminism and started his own sect the Brahmo Samaj which soon gave up trying to reform Hinduism and rejected it entirely by rejecting the Vedas. It is officially recognized as a distinct religion and has very few adherents.
Liar. All of the above were educated during British rule, in the English language, in schools or colleges founded by the British government or by Christian missionaries. And FYI, Mother Teresa was a catholic from Albania not a Bengali. Sen, Yunus, Mukherjee were all educated in schools founded by the British. 564
Posted by Bliss on November 26, 2011, 07:07 AM | #
Actually the jatts of Punjab have the highest proportion of euro genes and they belong to the lowest caste: sudras. Check out the Harappa Project site. The Bengali and Tamil Brahmins who are the biggest braggarts among the Hindus also happen to be among the darkest skinned of their caste, which makes sense considering their geographical location. 565
Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 08:57 AM | # hey look,this bloody bastard BLISS is getting even more arrogant and i have no interest to talk anymore with a ruined,irrational creature like u-but i will give u some source from where u can know more about hindu bengali-an autobiogarphy of unknown indian written by bengali nirad.c.chaudhuri which was forwarded by current gurdian journalist ian jack-go and read that book if u really can read english-or even better u can personally contact ian jack to know more about it-because he was a bbc correspondent in sub continent. already i have proved u a lier in every aspect-except one thing that u have said correctly-mother teresa was not a ethnic bengali-but she came in calcutta,adapted bengali culture,spoke that language and in her lifetime she herself told manytimes that without the help of people of bengal she could not do anything.that’s the speciality of bengal-apart form geek like u,everybody who comes in bengal become a bengali-infact calcutta’s first nobel prize winner sir ronald ross had two bengali research assistant. U HAVE NOT ONLY LIED ABOUT BENGALI AND U SAID OUR MASTER HAD LEFT US_WELL UNLIKE U STUPID JERK WE BENGALI PEOPLE DON"T NEED MASTER_WE DO OUR WORK IN CALCUTTA_NOT IN EUROPE OR AMERICA AND STILL WE PRODUCE TAGORE,JC BOSE,SATYENDRA BOSE,SATYAJIT ROY,RAVISHANKAR AND IN US JHUMPA LAHIRI(THE YOUNGEST PULITZER WINNER,SIDDDHARTA MuKHERJEE),AMAR BOSE,FAZLUR KHAN AND COUNTLESS OTHERS.U FUCKIN CHINESE EVEN AFTER GOING IN US OR EUROPE CAN"T PRODUCE ONE PERCENT OF US-AND IT"S A DAMN REAL TRUTH-SO AGAIN I WILL TELL U THAT HINDU BENGALIS AND CHRISTIAN ANGLOPHILIC SOCIETY IN CALCUTTA IS HELL LOT BETTER THAN ALL U GOAT. AND REGARDING MY IQ_WELL I CANNOT PROVE IT THROUGH COMPUTER BUT THOSE WHO HAVE READ MY POSTS AND HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT SCIENCE WILL UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM_AND THOSE WHO HAD GONE THROUGH UR POSTS WILL UNDERSTAND U R JUST A BOORISH SINGLE DIGIT IQ GUY. and don’t give me anymore biased stupid reply-i have already lost enough time in morning today-and i don’t want to talk with a real jerk like u.and by the way when i said ur comments regarding boses to other students-even they laughed. 566
Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 09:22 AM | # in the above post one sentence which i wrote but seems incomplete AND BENGALI PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK LIKE TAMIL_WE ARE MIXED HYBRID OF INDO_EUROPEAN AND MONGOLOID_DRAVIDIAN-DRAVIDIAN RACE WILL MAKE UR COLOR DARKISH_BUT I AM A BENGALI BRAHMIN WITH FAIR COMPLEXION. AND IF UR A MUSLIM GOAT(EITHER PAKISTANI OR LIVING IN INDIA)WHICH HAS MORE PROBABILITY THAN A CHINESE_THEN IT’S HIGH TIME THAT ALL RELIGION(EXCEPT UR SUPPORTER CHINESE)TO PUT HANDS TOGETHER TO DESTROY ALL TERRORIST FROM THIS PLANET.AND IN ORDER TO DO SO WE WILL HAVE TO ETHNICALLY DESTROY ALL MUSLIMS FROM THIS PLANET_BECAUSE 99.9% OF THEM ARE MUSLIM. 567
Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 09:39 AM | # OHHO!!! THIS BASTARD BLISS IN HIS POST NO 476 AND IN 477 HAD LIED ABOUT WHITE PEOPLE ALSO.U HAVE SAID THAT FAT WHITE PEOPLE GO FOR EAST ASIAN GIRL!!ANOTHER BIG JOKE_I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY WHITE GOING FOR THOSE STUPID EAST ASIAN GIRLS.AND IN POST 476 U HAVE SAID HOW IMPORTANT BLACKS ARE IN AMERICAN SOCIETY>HERE U R COMMENTING BADLY ABOUT BLACK INDIAN AND THERE U R COMMENTING IN FAVOR OF BLACK AMERICAN> PEOPLE BE AWARE FROM THIS DOUBLE FACED SON OF PROSTITUTE AND THE LIER_NO BODY SO FAR HAD RECOGNISED U BUT I, 173 IQ GUY HOW EASILY GOT RID OF THIS SCUM-PEOPLE BE AWARE FROM THIS TERRORIST MUSLIM. 568
Posted by Bliss on November 26, 2011, 10:14 AM | #
Then why was the Bengali section of Calcutta called Black Town by the British while the European section was called White Town? Here is an European’s description of Calcutta from more than 2 centuries ago with numerous portraits. He described the Bengalis as being as dark as Africans (caffries) and painted them as such. Enjoy: http://www.laits.utexas.edu/solvyns-project/hardgraveportrait.html
Absolutely disgusting.
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Posted by Bliss on November 26, 2011, 10:52 AM | # And here are some photographs of modern day Calcutta decades after the bengalis’ masters, the British, left them to their fate. Looks like hell on earth:
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Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 12:14 PM | # SO FINALLY U PAKISTANI TERRORIST ACCEPT ALL I SAID ABOUT U_THAT’S THE MAGIC OF 173+ IQ BENGALI. PEOPLE NOTE(TO ALL EUROPEAN ,AMERICAN THEN THIS BASTARD BOASTED FOR BLACK AMERICAN AND ASSAULTED WHITE PEOPLE.THEN THIS BASTARD PAKISTANI GOAT ASSAULTED BENGALI AND HINDU AND CAME WITH THE IDENTITY AS BRITISH/CHRISTIAN.AGAIN TRIED TO MAKE ALL OF US FOOL.AND EVEN NOW TRYING TO DIVERT ATTENTION BY MAKING DISCRIMINATION BETWEEN BRITISH AND BENGALI HINDUS ETC,ETC…SO WE ALL INDIAN,BRITISH,AMERICAN ,CHINESE FIGHT AMONGST EACH OTHER.AND THIS BASTARD SON OF MUHAMMAD(AS I ALREADY SAID ALL GOAT AND CAMEL)WILL CONQUER US. AS I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST_IT"S HIGH TIME FOR EVERY RELIGION TO DESTROY TERRORISM AND TO DESTROY ISLAM FOREVER FROM THIS PLANET_U GUYS KILL ALL PEOPLE IRRESPECTIVE OF HINDU,CHRISTIAN,JEWISH,BLACK,WHITE-NOW IT’S BACKLASH TIME_WE WILL UNITE TO DESTROY ALL U TRIBAL MUSLIM TERRORIST FOREVER. AND HEY U SON OF PROSTITUTE_U QUESTIONED MY IQ_SEE HOW A BENGALI HINDU WITH 173+ IQ UNITED EVERYBODY AGAINST THAT SHIT HOLE RELIGION U CALL ISLAM.AND AS LONG AS PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE HERE 571
Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 12:45 PM | # AND U ARE SHOWING THE YOU TUBE VIDEO OF CALCUTTA_HEY FOOL IT WAS A BRITISH WHO FIRST CALLED CALCUTTA THE VENICE OF EAST AND WHEN BRITISH CAME U MUSLIM GOATS WERE ALSO THERE_BUT ONLY HINDU BENGALIS REACHED THE PINNACLE.AND ALREADY I HAVE SAID 2 MILLION HINDU BENGALI IN CALCUTTA HAD PRODUCED BETTER TALENT IN EVERY FIELD THAN UR 2 BILLION MUSLIM GOATS AROUND THE WORLD.AND I ALSO SAID RIGHT NOW THERE ARE 30% MUSLIM GOATS in CALCUTTA_MOST OF WHOM ARE SLUM DWELLERS GIVING THE BAD NAME TO CALCUTTA_BUT STILL IT’S WAY BETTER THAN ANY CITY OF UR TERRORISTAN WHICH U CALL PAKISTAN-AND WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN CALCUTTA U PIG WORSHIPERS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO IN NEXT 1000 YEARS. AND IN ABOVE BLOG U CAME AS AN EAST ASIAN,BOASTED FOR THEM AND MADE SOME DEROGATORY REMARKS ABOUT INDIA AND HINDUISM_THEN U ASSAULTED WHITES 572
Posted by observer on November 26, 2011, 02:49 PM | # @ pakistani goat bliss hey u have shown the pictures of poverty in calcutta.well those place are not in mainstream of city-and in those slums there are mostly north indian muslim goats living who actually belongs to same ethnic of pakistani muslim dogs. and picture of poverty is rare apart from tribal and muslim goats populated states in west bengal. now when i googled picture of poverty in calcutta ,i did not find anything,but when i googled slums in pakistan i found all these things-enjoy! and regarding those picture of calcutta,atleast we had home and civilization and education u muslim dogs were living in jungle at that time-that’s why u guys are so barbaric.example-mir nisar ali,even jinha’s forefather lived in jungle. 573
Posted by Leon Haller on November 26, 2011, 08:08 PM | # This is certainly the thread which never dies. I wonder about this:
Was the author of this now ancient post actually a psychometrician? And is it agreed that verbal ability is the core element of IQ? I would have thought math ability, but I’d be interested in hearing an explanation of this assertion. 574
Posted by Blues on November 28, 2011, 10:20 AM | # Oh and about sati, I am pretty sure that a large part of those “horror stories” are blatant lies. Muslims hate hindus and that’s why they love to believe and spread those stories.
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Posted by Blues on November 28, 2011, 01:17 PM | # Whatever happened to my first post(originally#574)? It was here just 15 minutes ago!
Ah! You Googled it! So that explains it. In all my life I have NEVER seen anyone in India calling another person “untouchable” or staying away from that person. I don’t know what it was like in the distant past, but I certainly haven’t seen anything in my lifetime. And in all likelihood those are exaggerated stories from specific places in the past. One thing you CAN find in India is a very dark-complexioned guy being called “kallu” by his pals/friends, which basically translates to “blackie” or “darkie”. And this dark complexioned guy will not get offended by it precisely because in India dark complexion is not associated with inferiority. Not only does “kallu” not have 1% of maliciousness/hatred of “nigger”, it also does not have anything to do with castes. In India there are plenty of relatively dark skinned Brahmins/Brahmans. 576
Posted by James on November 30, 2011, 06:45 AM | # @blues You are partly right about sati. More importantly, Sati has never been a universal practice in India. It was only observed among a small number of specific groups in India. And even in communities where sati existed, not all women did it. Those who did were given high honour. And very often a woman who declared that she wanted to commit sati would have to prove her resolution before she is allowed. Also, Sati is by no means a “hindu” specific custom. Similar events have been reported among ancient greeks, egyptians , scythians, goths etc. One popular theory is that sati came to India through scythian invaders.
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Posted by Some facts about IQ on December 01, 2011, 11:56 AM | # Perhaps some of you will be interested in knowing some funny facts about IQ. 1>Alfred Binet, the original inventor of IQ test, devised it to filter out the children who are having slow or retarded development, so that they can be given special care and attention. He believed that his test will be of no use in identifying any special innate individual ability. 2>Garry Kasparov’s IQ is estimated by expert psychologists to be at 195 because he is widely regarded as the greatest chess player in history. A few years ago, an actual IQ test was arranged for Kasparov by the german newspaper Der Spiegel with the help of many expert psychologists. The actual IQ came out to be 135, a good 60 points less than the expert estimation. 3> Marilyn vos savant had a measured IQ of 228 as 10 year old. Her IQ dropped to 186 when measured as an adult. A difference of almost 20%. 4>Bill sidis had a childhood IQ estimated between 250 and 300. His father believed IQ is a meaningless concept. His father intentionally tried to create a genius and was successful. 5> In 1973-74, a study in Zaire (Chess and Aptitudes) by Dr. Albert Frank showed that introducing chess to teenage players increased their IQ. These players that were taught an additional 2 hours of chess instead of mathematics had stronger spatial, numerical, administrative-directional, and paperwork abilities than the group that did not get introduced to chess. 6>From 1979 to 1984, a Venezuela experiment, Learning to Think Project, tested whether chess could develop intelligence of 4,266 elementary age children as measured by the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children. The children showed an increase in IQ after less than one year of studying chess in a systematic way. The Venezuelan government was so impressed that all Venezuelan schools introduced chess lessons in 1988. 7> Although identical twins tend to have remarkably similar IQs even when raised apart, the average being 6 points apart, there has been several recorded cases where their IQs were at least 20-25 points apart.
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Posted by The_Observer on December 12, 2011, 04:24 AM | # Just in are the results for the 2011 Siemens Foundation Competition in Math, Science & Technology for high school students in the USA. http://www.siemens-foundation.org/en/competition/2011_winners.htm You will notice that most of the young winners are descendants of Chinese or Korean immigrants. 579
Posted by Tenzin on December 23, 2011, 03:20 PM | # Since this is a site comparing Indian and Chinese IQ, here is a very interesting article: 580
Posted by martin_uk on December 23, 2011, 08:24 PM | # The Chinese are very pleased and proud of the fact that they will most likely lead the world in science and technology in the twenty first century, but the poor deluded fools will be LIGHT YEARS BEHIND the West when it comes to Diversity Studies and White Privilege Studies. 581
Posted by higgs boson on December 24, 2011, 11:05 PM | # Remember together we stand and divide we fall are you kid in?with whom you want to stay-those people who always bash against you in india.now i am not a bengali but anglo living in kolkata.the city had been destroyed by non bengali migrant,some of the most dumbest people in this planet with iq less than african black.it is true calcutta had produced more luminaries than most of first world city.but if you stay with those filthy indian who loves to hate bengali,british-people who created modern india,then in future your calcutta will be destroyrd.the best way to get rid of this is to make an independent country for hindu bengali people. now see some of blog created by your so called indian-why west bengal looks like urinal(topix forum)by some bloody nonsense. 582
Posted by INDIAN EMPIRE on December 29, 2011, 12:38 PM | # INDIAN TRIBES MIGRATED OUT OF INDIA IN SEVERAL WAVES, EAST AND WEST OF INDIA, INTO CENTRAL ASIA AND EUROPE AND INTO TIBET AND CHINA ITSELF. INDIAN GENOME IS THE MOST DIVERSE IN THE WORLD, SECOND TO AFRICANS, THE DEPTH OF DIVERSITY IN THE INDIAN RACE MEANS IT IS FAR OLDER THAN BOTH THE EAST ASIAN/CHINESE AND CENTRAL ASIANS/EUROPEANS. INDIAN CIVILIZATION SPREAD EAST AND WEST OF INDIA. AND NOW AFTER 500YEARS OF WAR AND OCCUPATION OF INDIA BY EUROPEAN AND ARABS, THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT! THESE SO CALLED I.Q TEST ARE WHOLLY FLAWED. INDIAN HAVE BEEN OPPRESSED FOR OVER 500YEARS AND THESE TEST ARE NO INDICATION OF THE WEALTH OF INDIANS, INTELLECTUALLY AND MATERIALISTICALLY. CHINA IS A DICTATORSHIP AND THEREFORE HAVE CENTRALIZED AND CLOSED ITSELF FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD UNTIL NOW, INDIAN POLITICS AND COLONIAL INTERFERENCE STILL LINGERS IN INDIA WHICH HAS FALTERED AND HALTED THE PROGRESSION OF INDIA, BUT INDIA WILL RISE AND ITS INEVITABLE. AND INDIANS ARE ONE RACE, ONE GENOME, CASTE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGON OTHER THAN A SOCIAL OCCUPATIONAL STRUCTURE DEVELOPED OVER 10,OOOYEARS, PREDATING ANY RELIGON. ARYAN INVASION HAS BEEN COMPLETELY REFUTED. IT WAS AN INDIAN MIGRATION INTO EUROPE.
-Stephen Oppenheimer
For years, English scientist Isaac Newton and German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz both claimed credit for inventing the mathematical system sometime around the end of the seventeenth century. Now, a team from the universities of Manchester and Exeter says it knows where the true credit lies — and it’s with someone else completely. The “Kerala school,” a little-known group of scholars and mathematicians in fourteenth century India, identified the “infinite series” — one of the basic components of calculus — around 1350. ____________________________________________________________________________________
dīrghasyākṣaṇayā rajjuH pārśvamānī, tiryaDaM mānī, cha yatpṛthagbhUte kurutastadubhayāṅ karoti. ____________________________________________________________________________________ EAST ASIAN RACE HAS ITS ROOTS IN THE INDIAN AUSTRO-ASIATIC TRIBES OF INDIA. Researchers found that the Indian populations had more genetic diversity than Europeans and East Asians, which gives a good indicator of the age of a population” Genographic project IBM 2011. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/47/figure/F1?highres=y To sum up we conclude that, because of its very high frequency and diversity, haplogroup O-M95 had an in-situ origin among the Indian Austro-Asiatics, particularly among the Mundaris, not in Southeast Asia as envisaged earlier. _____________________________________________________________________________________ A recent study of DNA of Zebu by Chen (2009) has shown that Bos indicus or Zebu had beendomesticated only in India, and not at any other place, ruling out all skepticism in thematter, and proving that it was only after full domestication in India, that Zebu migrated toother parts of the world.Zebu cows have a prominent presence in China and Africa. _____________________________________________________________________________________ The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. “The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society.” “Impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not different.” -”Reconstructing Indian Population History” ____________________ In Vizagapatam, Brahmins and Vaishyas together accounted for 47% of the students, Shudras comprised 21% and the other castes (scheduled) were 20%; the remaining 12% were Muslims. In Tinnevelly, Brahmins were 21.8% of the total number of students, Shudras were 31.2% and other castes 38.4% (by no means a low figure). In South Arcot, Shudras and other castes together comprised more than 84% of the students! In the realm of higher education as well, there were regional variations. Brahmins appear to have dominated in the Andhra and Tamil Nadu regions, but in the Malabar area, theology and law were Brahmin preserves, but astronomy and medicine were dominated by Shudras and other castes. Thus, of a total of 808 students in astronomy, only 78 were Brahmins, while 195 were Shudras and 510 belonged to the other castes (scheduled). In medicine, out of a total of 194 students, only 31 were Brahmins, 59 were Shudras and 100 belonged to the other castes. Even subjects like metaphysics and ethics that we generally associate with Brahmin supremacy, were dominated by the other castes (62) as opposed to merely 56 Brahmin students. It bears mentioning that this higher education was in the form of private tuition (or education at home), and to that extent also reflects the near equal economic power of the concerned groups. As a concerned reader informed me, the ‘Survey of Indigenous Education in the Province of Bombay (1820-1830)’ showed that Brahmins were only 30% of the total students there. What is more, when William Adam surveyed Bengal and Bihar, he found that Brahmins and Kayasthas together comprised less than 40% of the total students, and that forty castes like Tanti, Teli, Napit, Sadgop, Tamli etc. were well represented in the student body. The Adam report mentions that in Burdwan district, while native schools had 674 students from the lowest thirty castes, the 13 missionary schools in the district together had only 86 students from those castes. Coming to teachers, Kayasthas triumphed with about 50% of the jobs and there were only six Chandal teachers; but Rajputs, Kshatriyas and Chattris (Khatris) together had only five teachers.
>>>>>THIS IS WHY INDIA IS CURRENTLY POOR, THE CHRISTIANS AND THE MUSLIMS LOOTED INDIA INTO POVERTY WHILE ENRICHING THEMSELVES. CHINA DID NOT WITNESS THE DEEP PENETRATION INTO CHINA AS INDIA WITNESSED, MUCH WEALTH, KNOWLEDGE WAS LOST, DESTROYED AND HIDDEN, ONLY NOW ARE WE KNOWING THE TRUTH. >>>>>INDIAN TRIBES MIGRATED OUT OF INDIA, WEST AND EAST, INTO CENTRAL ASIA, NORTH AFRICA, AND EUROPE, AND EASTWARDS TOWARDS INDO-CHINA. __________________________________________________________________________________ Sahoo et al had actually written the following words:“The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through thenorthwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny.Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a,and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are REJECTED, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H.” .They also rule out arrivals from Southwest Asia because West Asian haplogroups (like Y-Hg G) are not found in India. _________ Kivisild’s findings (2003) too had shown that humans could not have arrived from West Asia into Indiabecause of lack of West Asian Y-hgs E, G, I, J* and J2f. Kivisild et al wrote,“When compared with European and Middle Eastern populations (Semino et al. 2000), Indians (i) share with themclades J2 and M173 derived sister groups R1b and R1a, the latter of which is particularly frequent in India; and (ii) lack or show amarginal frequency of clades E, G, I, J*, and J2f.” _________ There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups. _________ Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time. R2 is very rare in Europe.Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majuder, and P. A. Underhill. – 2006. _________ A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed “no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals”. Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.In its conclusions the study proposed “the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins” as well as “the origin of R1a1* … in the Indian subcontinent”.S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe. _________
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Posted by INDIAN EMPIRE on December 29, 2011, 12:39 PM | # Human Genetics at the University of Michigan, conducted genetic analysis of Indian-born individuals in the US. Their studies of 1,200.’We were struck both by the low level of diversity amongst people spanning such a large geographical region, and by the fact that people of the Indian sub-continent constituted a distinct group when compared to populations from other parts of the world,’ said Pragna I. Patel. _________ Moreover, there are other DNA lineages found in good numbers in West Asia like R1*, R1b3,J*, J2f, I, G and E which are in total more than 53% population of west Asia. These arevirtually absent from India (Sahoo). Had people migrated from West Asia to India,these haplogroups would also have arrived into India. This evidence proves that J2 did notarrive from West Asia, because no lineage can ever migrate without other lineages alsomigrating along with it from the place of origin or expansion. On the other hand nearly all of the Indian male lineages like F*, L1, H (M-69), K2, C5, C*, R1a (M-17) etc. are found inWest Asia, proving a definite Indian migration to West Asia. The HIV protective gene, whichis found in West Asia, and Central Asia too, is absent from India (Majumder and Dey, 2001).Thus on no account, any migration from West Asia to India can be supported. _________ Sengupta (2006) showed that J2 is well distributed in Indian population.Sengupta et al (2006) found that the haplogroup J2 had a quite high variance, and hence deep time-depthin Indian tribes and castes too. Moreover the frequency is higher in the Dravidian speakingsouth Indians (19%) than the Indo-European speaking north Indians (11%). This destroys theAryan migration into India from West Asia hypothesis of Bellwood (2003 and 2005). The inference what we can derive from Sengupta and colleagues study’s data is that J2 haplogroup originated in India during Last Glacial Maximum, and migrated out of India whenclimate permitted. J2 is 18.7% in south Pakistan, the central place of Indus civilization.Lineage J2 and its derivatives are 23% in Iran and 22.2% in Turkey. (Regueiro et al.2006).But their variances are less than in India. Semino (2004) gives 18,000 ybp as the time of origin of J2. The variance was also high indicating indigenous origin of the haplogroup in India.J2 as well as its sub-clade J2b2 show a decreasing variance from India to the Balkans. _________ Sahoo et al had actually written the following words:“The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through thenorthwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny.Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a,and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are REJECTED, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H.” .They also rule out arrivals from Southwest Asia because West Asian haplogroups (like Y-Hg G) are not found in India. _________ There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups. _________ Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time. R2 is very rare in Europe. _________ Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. – 2006. _________ S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe. _________ The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. “The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society.” _________ Underhill and colleagues (2009) presented a detailed study of R1a lineages.They found that R1a is oldest in India. This lineage started expanding from Gujarat about 16,000years back. By 14,000 years back or earlier, it reached the Ganga Valley and Indus Valley.Then people carrying R1a genes migrated out of India, through Afghanistan and Tajikistan,reaching Central Asia. From Central Asia they entered East Europe. They inhabited thePontic-Caspian area. Then they populated those areas which are inhabited today by Slavic and Baltic speaking people _________ Team working on the same topic included Sengupta, King, Cavalli-Sforza, Underhilland colleagues. They showed that R (especially R1a1 and R2) diversity in India is indigenousin origin and does not support hypothesis of immigration from Central Asia or anywhere outside. R1a prevalence is not only high in Indo-European speaking Punjab, south Pakistan and Ganga Valley, but also in Chenchu and Koya tribes of south India (Kivisildet al.200 _________ Oppenheimer (2003) also had supported Indian origin of R1a which is also called M17 in _________
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Posted by To observer on December 29, 2011, 09:43 PM | # Observer, I came to see if you made any further posts. I am disappointed. First of all, I don’t think Bliss is Pakistani. My first guess will be that he is an Australian. It’s also possible that he is black or a woman or a chinese . But I can’t know anything for sure.
I am, however, deeply saddened by your racist remarks. You seem to have this firm conviction that it’s all about races and superficial features. You are wrong, my friend. People are victim of circumstances in more ways than you can imagine and every group has both kind and murderous people. And don’t insult the Tamils. Many of them are highly intelligent and a lot of them are fairly good looking. For example, look at Vidya Balan. Does she look ugly to you? I mistook her for a sure-shot Bengali as she looked a bit like one of my former teachers. Anyway, I was hoping that you will be a little different. That is the reason why I commented here. But you sound just like many other arrogant people here. You even sound like someone who is just trying to impress the whites. MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR. 585
Posted by Indian Catholic on January 01, 2012, 01:50 PM | # two(infact 3) religions brought the IQ value of Indians low. 3) Hinduism’s offshoot cult called Islam. which is dominating middle east and world over which is far more inferior than the mother religion Hinduism. These are the reasons why India is lacking in IQ and development. Solution is something which Indians will not be like to accept. The religion of Hinduism is one reason India is such a poor performer. this, ofcourse will not be taken as a offence by Hindu/muslims. I have nothing particular against religions. but a careful study of how these religions which are almost similar to tribal culture can show you why India is not progressing the way it should. TC, 586
Posted by John on January 02, 2012, 12:42 PM | # Both desert religions have spoiled this country. Hindus are basically peace loving peoples much like Japanese Buddhists and Chinese Confucianists and post-enlightenment European thinkers. Because of christian/muslim appeasement policy and the corruption of the government we are in the suffering end. No other province could manage a growth rate of 11 per cent like Hindu/BJP controlled Gujarat. The Indians invented Zero.I mean the great concept of nothing. “Zero” is a great mathematical discovery and the credit belongs to Indian thinkers. See Dr CK Raju’s work on how/why the differential calculus invented by the [Hindu] kerala school of mathematics and astronomy of the 1400-1500 CE timeframe was imported into europe. yet another major invention for which the credit has gone undeservedly to europeans. “In contrast with China,” said Delhi University’s Mohanty, “India’s developmental strategy did not ensure that the land belonged to the tiller, so absentee-landlordism, sharecropping and concealed India’s two most populous states—Uttar Pradesh and Bihar—are still plagued by a near-feudal system of absentee landlords and tenant farming. “I know it is heretical,” said Nick Bridge, a New Zealand diplomat who served in Beijing and until recently was ambassador to India, “but I think one of the main reasons that China has an advantage is that it underwent a violent revolution. The Communists killed the landlords. India still has them, and they are dragging the country down.” China, like the Soviet Union, launched a mostly disastrous program of collective farming that reached a low in the 1958-61 Great Leap The result was a breakdown in the food production system and the famine that experts now believe killed up to 30 million. The communal kitchens were abandoned in 1962. The collective farms lingered until 1979, when Deng initiated a “household contract system” that lets peasants till their own land and sell their harvests on the open market. But the essential reforms—land redistribution—that occurred at the time of the revolution remained intact. Once freed from the collective, Chinese farmers prospered—quickly. Some centralized, communal aspects of the system remain and help Chinese peasants organize and coordinate efforts. “China has made progress in areas where we have not,” M. S. Swaminathan, a renowned agronomist and an architect of India’s “green revolution” in agriculture, said in an interview at the Madras-based Swaminathan Research Foundation. “Because of the very possibility of social mobilization under a single political party, they have been able to get better control of water and pest management. “The Chinese,” he said, “have an integrated approach to job creation between the farm and off-farm employment which we have not had in this country. The result in India has been the proliferation of urban slums as landless poor people migrate to the big cities of Bombay and China’s population increase and agricultural modernization have also produced surplus labor. An estimated 80 million to 100 million people—the “floating population”—are internal migrants, manual laborers, construction workers and curbside vendors in the major cities. But several studies report that an additional 100 million of these people were absorbed by outlying “township enterprises” that India has never developed. “The main reason that, economically speaking, China is doing so much better than India,” Mohanty said, “is the difference in the political systems that resulted from the kinds of revolutions the two countries went through. I think the Chinese were forced to face the challenge right from the beginning. From 1949 onward, they had to justify their revolution by providing some basic economic needs, partly because they were constantly under attack from the West. “In India, we also had great values. But at the end of the freedom struggle, there were great compromises. . . . The basic needs of the people got postponed for the vast majority of people.” In fits and starts in the past five years, India has begun to Now, many foreign business analysts are optimistic about India’s potential. “We basically advised our clients that they need to be [investing] in both China and India,” said Dominique Turcq, an analyst with McKinsey & Co. who directed a huge 1995 study comparing the “two giants of the 21st century.” That study, the most exhaustive economic comparison of the two markets from an investment perspective, predicts that, “in the next decade, both India and China will see sustainable growth.” Democracy Inhibits Growth India’s vibrant democracy, Turcq said in an interview in Paris, where he is now based, in some ways inhibits the government’s ability to spur growth. A democratic government, for example, must pay closer attention to inflation and respond to “strong, established lobbies.” But foreign investors who have worked in both places often find India’s civil society easier to understand and more dependable. “Democracy puts limits on what you can do in brutalizing the economy,” Turcq said. “But it does give you more stability. India will probably never grow at 12% a year like China. But it will have stability.” Other observers are not so sure. What the strictly business analyses of India fail to take into account, they say, are growing divisions among castes, religions and economic classes—the haves and the have- nots. China’s ability to convert quickly to a market economy can be “The force of China’s market economy rests on the solid foundations of social changes that occurred earlier,” said economist Sen. “India cannot simply jump onto that bandwagon without paying attention to the enabling social changes—in education, health care and land reforms—that made the market function in the way it has in China.” Meanwhile, a working measure of success for the two titans may lie in the question posed by former U.S. diplomat Jay Taylor in his 1987 book, “The Dragon and the Wild Goose,” which compares the nations: “Would you rather be the poorest man in China or in India?” Rone Tempest, The Times’ Beijing Bureau chief since 1993 and New Delhi Bureau chief from 1984 to 1988, reported these stories in India and China. “As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never *As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples *Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain. *Examples of destroyed Temples the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, *Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis *Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all *In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights. *In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on *The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to Mission *Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to *Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church *Battle of Belgrad 1456 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235] *15th century Poland 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by *16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops “pacified and Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, Crusades (1095-1291) *First Crusade 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41] *Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 *Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered *After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and Here the Christians “did no other harm to the women found in [the *Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the *Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, (In the words of one witness “there [in front of Solomon’s temple] *The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote “It was impossible to *Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that “even the following *Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered “in the *Fourth crusade 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims *Rest of Crusades in less detail until the fall of Akkon 1291 Note All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers. Heretics *Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus *Manichaean heresy a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice *Albigensians the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely Begin of violence on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single *Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. *subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half *After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search *Other heresies Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and *Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 *John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was *University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. *Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for
Witches *from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several *in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars *incomplete list of documented cases 587
Posted by Arjune Shandal on January 09, 2012, 07:35 PM | # im an indian, my iq is 140. cool story bro. tell it again. 588
Posted by M-W on January 12, 2012, 12:15 AM | # 一群海盗跟奴隶贩子的后代在自诩自己的26个字母变成了世界语言是一件多么让人自豪的事情啊 589
Posted by M-W on January 12, 2012, 01:02 AM | # 智者说过学习一种外语是为了从另一个视角重新审视我们身处的这个世界 白人们，麻烦问一下，你们的脑中除了26个字母的字母拼写系统以外， 那里用占世界不到7%的土地养活了占世界20%的人口 中华文明教育我们：和而不同，所以我们不会去征服一个国家，而是去交流去理解去做买卖 白人孩子们，你们在自诩26个英文字母成为世界通用语之前，好好审视一下自己血腥暴力的历史 中国正在重回他500年前应该所处的位置，尽管这500年来我们自己将我们的文明隔绝于世界之外 WE HAVE BEEN COMING BACK 590
Posted by Jim on January 13, 2012, 05:26 AM | # @ Indian Empire Are you suggesting that Europeans, middle-easterners and east-asians all came from Indians? That’s interesting! 591
Posted by Vibhu Parcha on January 13, 2012, 05:46 AM | # this is a highly racial article as clearly disregard the history of india do you know India was the first place where education was public…. we called them gurukuls and not modern day schools which indeed were introduced by the English. World’s first university was built in India.. and you talk of us having poor education. There are more illiterates in US than in India inspite of our massive population. some fact here- 592
Posted by Vibhu Parcha on January 13, 2012, 06:05 AM | # this is a highly racist article as clearly disregard the history of india do you know India was the first place where education was public…. we called them gurukuls and not modern day schools which indeed were introduced by the English. World’s first university was built in India.. and you talk of us having poor education. There are more illiterates in US than in India inspite of our massive population. 593
Posted by John on January 17, 2012, 04:34 AM | # Inter-galactic travel? Are you mad? If your holy scriptures really mention them, then it is nothing more than imagination. 594
Posted by Asensharma on February 14, 2012, 06:14 AM | # I am an upper cast Hindu, from East India (West Bengal, for those who want precision). For me, it is not difficult to understand why India fares so low in terms of average I.Q. tests. Who are we kidding when most of the population still struggle to make two ends meet? The lower section of the society is dually cursed: First is the ancient cast system which ensured they do not get access to any mental stimulation, the second is the corrupt political scenario in the country. Together these all result in malnutrtion, poverty and lack of oppertunities, and worse, a prevalent menrality that certain scetions of the society don’t really deserve attention. Even the people belonging to that section start believing that. I writemy response with such humbleness not because I doubt the potential of India. It saddens me specially to see Indians turning against each others. Claiming Northern supremity over Southern, and vise versa. To the Chinese participants... I envy the solidarity. I do not agree with all that you have written, but, I admire the fact that not one Chinese person has pointed finger to another, claiming they could have even a higher IQ score had certain section of the populace not been present. This in itslef is a great eye opener to anyone who wonders why India manages to fall behind in aggregate terms, while individual Indians show brilliance. Because we have a long, long way to go before we identify ourselves as Indians. >, and not on basis of cast, language or region. Note: Ironically enough, the introduction i have given for myself is meant for fellow Indians. Thanks. 595
Posted by John on February 20, 2012, 03:39 AM | # What all you people are failing to consider is the possibility that IQ tests are not a valid measure of intelect. First of all, Raven’s Progresive Matrices, which alot of these studies are done with, uses INDUCTIVE REASONING. The problems blatantly demand inductive reasoning, which is a non-rigorous form of reasoning, and not critical to the sciences in the manner that deductive reasoning is. This is an issue that has not been addressed in the literature at sufficient length at all, but, as a Cognitive Psychology grad student, you can rest assured, I will make sure that it is studied at length. I’m sure Raven’s progresive matrices must say something about certain cognitive functions but it is not the be all end all. Furthermore, what these “scientists” fail to realize is that some cultures may simply not give a shit about some stupid IQ test and their idea of effort is… uhh… no effort. The Roma studies are highly credulous for example. Just so everyone knows, the level of “effort” on one of these tests is gauged by the clinician who administers the test in a bullshit qualitative way, it is highly non-rigorous. Lastly, the correlation between IQ and achievment, that means actual real life achievment, is positive, but weak. Now, some people will say “it is moderate!!” Wrong, moderate correlations; R=.5, translate into an R^2 of .25. It’s R^2 that is the important part, that’s the part that tell syou the strength of the relationship, and according to mainstream (but ill informed sources) it signifies “variance accounted for” (this is an ill informed interpretation of R^2 but we’ll roll with it). An R^2 of .25 means that the majority of the variance in the dependent variable, say, ACHIEVMENT, is NOT acounted for by variance in the independent variable IQ. Not to mention the relationship is asymptotic, meaning that as IQ approaches infinity d(achievment)/d(IQ) approaches 0 (the derivitive). What this means is that a really, really high IQ isn’t gonna make that big of a difference for a person in life, in comparison to a person with a high IQ. To cut a long story short, IQ just isn’t the most important thing in whether or not you succeede in life, so stop worrying about it. 596
Posted by TheAryanInside on February 25, 2012, 03:51 PM | # [quote=Bliss] lol I noticed you said “ethnic Chinese” instead of “China IMO medalists”...the fact is 0 China IMO medalists from China have won a Fields Medal. Tao is from Australia and his contributions aren’t significant so I don’t know how he won, I guess the Fields Medal committee is a joke now. Chern’s contributions are more significant but he’s from the US not from China and he’s from the distant past. If Ramanujan lived during the time period that the Fields Medal existed he would’ve won a Fields Medal, so going back to the distant past doesn’t mean much. So your 2 “ethnic Chinese from non-Chinese countries” only shows that the Chinese can’t independently do anything. What’s come out from China (not Chinese in non-Chinese countries) since 1986 when China started ranking high in the IMO? The fact is Chinese in China performs the best in the IMO so where are all of China’s contributions to go with it? The only reasonable answer is that the Chinese are genetically incapable of contributing. We know this because the Chinese in non-Chinese countries who rank high in the IMO also go on to contribute very little (like Lenny Ng). On the other India since the year 2000 has already won the Abel Prize (Nobel Prize equivalent), Rolf Nevanlinna prize (Nobel Prize equivalent), and created the first primality testing algorithm proven to run in polynomial time (which is much more significant than the Green-Tao theorem). Since there are lots of Indians who have made Fields Medal worthy contributions not winning a Fields Medal isn’t really significant for India considering India’s malnutrition and illiteracy rates. The Fields Medal committee is just a joke now. India will probably win a Fields Medal in 2014 and/or 2018. On the other hand what’s China’s explanation for no Chinese IMO medalists from China winning a Fields Medal or Abel Prize or any high ranking mathematical prize given out for contributions despite ranking extremely high? The only explanation is that the Chinese are genetically incapable of contributing, they disproved the validity of many contests lol. Ranking high in the IMO doesn’t even mean much. The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (PRK) also have high rankings, but they were disqualified twice for cheating and have no significant mathematical contributions. Basically any country can artificially raise their rankings in contests if they wanted to. So China’s high rankings in contests not correlating with contributions out from China only proves that the Chinese are genetically incapable of contributing, they are just like robots. 597
Posted by TheAryanInside on February 25, 2012, 04:39 PM | #
Japan, Vietnam, and Iran also perform much better than France in the IMO, but France has 11 Fields Medals and a much lower population size than those combined. France also has more Fields Medals than all three of those countries combined. Having high rankings in the IMO without contributions to correlate clearly shows us that the Chinese are incapable of contributing.
Lol since the year 1984 East Asians have a sum total of 3 Wolf Math Prizes? The total literate population of East Asians is like 1400 million+ so we would expect them to be contributing much more than not just Indians but the entire WORLD. India still has a lower literate population size than both Europeans and East Asians. Since the year 2000: The Nevanlinna Prize has been by 1 Indian but 0 East Asians The AKS Primality test was developed by 3 Indians in India and 0 East Asians Clay Research Award won by 2 Indians and 1 Chinese Gödel Prize won by 7+ Indians and 1 Chinese Considering India’s human development, average IQ, and literate population size India is contributing dis-proportionally more than the Chinese. 598
Posted by TheAryanInside on February 25, 2012, 05:43 PM | #
lol stop lying to yourself. Don’t make me laugh. What was advanced about China? The majority of Chinese inventions don’t require much intellect at all and are simply the result of Chinese culture. Obviously since China was the only civilization in the world that had the culture to build machines for 2000+ years we would expect China to have the most machines during that time. We would’ve also expected any civilization that has the culture to build machines for 2000+ years to figure out steam technology, but China didn’t. Having lots of inventions that do not require much intelligence over a 2000+ year period when China had the culture advantage isn’t a sign of advancement, it’s a sign of a lack of advancement. The only reason people mistakenly believe that China was so advanced is because they don’t factor in culture. Basically any civilization that has the culture to build machines for 2000+ years would’ve been able to come up with China’s inventions or more. Gunpowder, paper, woodblock printing, the primitive compass, and basically all of China’s primitive inventions don’t require much intelligence at all to figure out, just simple experimenting and guessing. The reason why basically every Chinese invention had been surpassed by Arabs and Europeans in the 13th-16th Century is specifically because nearly all Chinese inventions don’t require much intelligence. India had been much more advanced than China in mathematics, linguistics, astronomy, philosophy, metallurgy, plumbing, and every area besides inventions: - Indian philosophy is the only one comparable to Greek philosophy, the logic and concepts in Indian texts can easily rival or surpass everything in Greek philosophy - Indian astronomy had been the most advanced until the time of Johannes Kepler in the 17th century, the Chinese thought the earth was flat and square until the 17th Century LOL - Kerala school’s mathematical analysis remained the most advanced form of mathematics until the 18th Century - Indus Valley plumbing system remained the most advanced until the 19th Century - Pāṇini’s morphological analysis had remained the most advanced until the mid-20th Century - The classical and traditional manner that Indian high-carbon Wootz steel was manufactured has still yet to be re-discovered in modern times If anyone doubts any statement above just double-check it and see if it’s true. The reason why many of the things Indians did were only surpassed much later on is specifically because they require much more intelligence than China’s primitive inventions. The Kerala school’s mathematical analysis alone requires more intelligence than not some but rather ALL of China’s primitive inventions. The only thing China can get ahead of India in is copying, lol. 599
Posted by TheAryanInside on February 25, 2012, 07:21 PM | #
lol China finally got around to figuring out that the earth wasn’t flat and square in the 17th century and now in modern times all they can do is learn and copy from others, not contribute. East Asians have the very highest literate population in the entire world and also a high average IQ yet they contribute dis-proportionally very little. Since East Asians have the highest literate population size, perform well in contests, and have high average IQs why do they contribute so very little? It’s because they’re genetically incapable of making contributions that require originality. India has a low average IQ, high illiteracy rates, high malnutrition rates, a lower literate population than both East Asians and Europeans and Indians still contribute dis-proportionally more than the Chinese. Japan doesn’t even have it’s own national defense, the US provides Japan with most of it’s national defense. If a country doesn’t have to worry much about national defense spending building up infrastructure and an economy would be much easier. So much of Japan’s success comes directly from the US. Right now India really is poor. But India is just beginning to become developed, so we don’t really know India’s potential yet. One of the main challenges India faces is that it’s even more over-crowded than Japan. China on the other hand has been ranking high in contests for 25 years and China has no significant contributions. So we can see that China has already reached it’s limits and exhausted all it’s potential. Everything China has been doing are things that any country can do (copying infrastructure, ranking high in contests that have do with copying, copying national defense programs, and other things involving copying). Even if China achieves the best economy in the world all they’ll be doing is copying, not contributing. Since India is still developing itself we don’t really know how strong India’s economy or national defense will become. Once India’s literacy rate goes above 90% and internet usage goes above 30% India would’ve obviously surpassed robotic China in every imaginable field. India is just beginning to un-tap it’s potential where as China has already exhausted it’s potential. 600
Posted by TheAryanInside on February 25, 2012, 08:20 PM | # @ Indian Catholic 1) I don’t think so. There is no such religion as “Hinduism” it is simply a geographical term used to refer to all Indian religions in India (except for Buddhism, Jainism, and Carvaka). So which Indian religion are you referring to when you say “Hinduism”? Many things in Indian philosophy contain concepts that are far more advanced than things found in Judeo-Christian religions. Physicists like Erwin Schrödinger and Robert Oppenheimer were interested in Vedantic philosophy. Of course the philosophical concepts in Indian religions are nothing like the Ganesh or Brahma version of “Hinduism” that is often portrayed in the media. What a shame that the media portrays “Hinduism” to be such a primitive religion when in reality Indian religions are truthfully more advanced than all other major religions besides Buddhism. 2) Pagan religions? Are Vedantic, Advaita Vedantic, and other monistic/monotheistic Indian religions considered Pagan? 3) lol, Islam is an off-shoot of Judaism and Christianity, not “Hinduism”. In Islam they believe in the same prophets that Christians and Jews believe in. Where did you get the idea that Islam is an off-shoot of “Hinduism”? Most Indian religions are nothing like Islam at all. Judaism is very similar to Islam and Christianity is some what similar to Islam. 4) Or a solution would be to switch to the more advanced Indian religions like that of the Vedantists instead of the later Puranic Indian religions. Vedantists believe that reality is an illusion generated by our sensory perceptions and that all that really exists is the one true unborn God who is beyond our sensory perception. It is nothing like other Indian religions. “As dreams, illusions and castles in the air are viewed, so is the tangible universe viewed by the wise, well versed in Vedanta” “By direct perception, logical deduction, scriptural testimony and personal realization, one should know that this world has a beginning and an end and so is not the ultimate reality. Thus one should live in this world without attachment” “The Absolute Truth, which alone was present before the creation of the universe and which alone will remain after its destruction, is also the time factor and the ultimate cause. Even in the middle stage of this creation’s existence, the Absolute Truth alone is the actual reality.” 601
Posted by Dump people try to make smart comments on February 28, 2012, 02:02 AM | # I do not think the data is accurate in a way. It’s all about what era you’re talking about. For example if you check stastic a hundred years ago. You would like chinese is not high of iq because of the economic conditions does not allow chinese to go to school. The other factor is what percentage you’re talking about for example genetic happen randomly. If your population is 3000 percent number of people then genetic random of super smart people would be high than the other population. What I would like to say is that there is no such population smart forever or stupid forever it all depend of economic conditions, the generic ramdon number how big of your population, the cultures how much family encourage children to learn and challenge and other factors. At this era, Indian and Chinese pupolation is high and the economic have been improving; therefore, will see more of success. The Jews has learn a great lessons about race termination; therefore they family cultures invoke them to be more selfdefend by take more knowledge to defend themself. If there a WW3, then whoever win the WW3 would have the most IQs because their economic would be improve. It’s all dawnwin evolution. Therefore your comments and your statistic only for racism or nationalism to make you feel better. Please do not be a victim of Racism and have your own judgment. 602
Posted by indian strategy on March 06, 2012, 03:55 PM | # Vocabulary and math iq without geometry are the best 2 correlates of income. These 2 need to be measured first. Though most of the factory based jobs of the Chinese (requiring spatial IQ, not math) are blue collar low waged works I am not convinced and impressed much either from the Indian call-centers. Maybe the Chinese are getting prepared for hi-tech industries requiring spatial IQ of the future. So they are learning. The people working in the call centers are just very ordinary and won’t need any kind of graduation or certificate. Sorry but it is a very simple job. 10.7 percent of the Indians are said to have learned English. Okay, they are using their English knowledge. That is just it, nothing else. The Chinese don’t know much English. They can’t do it but the Indians can! In the factory based jobs the Chinese might learn some know-how. It may be useful in the hi-tech jobs of the future. But I wonder what the Indians will learn from the call-centers and promote to! It is a useless job in every kind of measurement. But yes there is one advantage of it. It doesn’t require much area and energy which both are useful for a crowded country. India wouldn’t be able to set up factory based industries because they require energy demands and very large places. On the other hand the Chinese are making investments for the mines especially in Africa. Maybe for an energy crisis they are getting prepared. As an economist I have no doubt that there will be numerous books written in the future about the very different strategies of the Indians and the Chinese. They are playing the game from different perspectives. Time will show who is right. India has the advantage of English, judicial system and low energy demanding jobs. And India has one more advantage. Their jobs are very fixable. They can get rid of the call centers any time they want and set up another firm but the Chinese won’t be able to get rid of the large factories in a short time. The Indians praise individuality and they are better entrepreneurs. They have also better personality traits for business life. I guess the Indian strategy is better but I would like to learn the plans of the Chinese too. To me the Indians have some advantages other than IQ. The Chinese economy isn’t efficient enough due to the government interventions like giving bank credits to unprofitable areas. But this has nothing to do with IQ. In the future Tibet may get separated from China so there may be political problems preventing sustainable growth. Anyway except the high caste Indians (Brahmins) and Parsis I don’t believe that there are smart races in India. They make up less than 5 % of India. Finally India has one of the worst, hottest climates in the world. They won’t be able to attract foreign investment much. Anyway let’s wait and see what happens. 603
Posted by Indian Strategy on March 07, 2012, 03:56 PM | # There are so many idiot explanations in this forum that I really don’t know where to begin from. First Marilyn Vos Savant had an IQ of 228 as a child but an IQ of 186 (!) as an adult. They are the same IQ, The height and weight correlate positively with each other. If you randomly select 100 persons of 1.70 m and 100 persons of 1.80 m you will see that on AVERAGE (not always) the persons in the 2nd group have also more weight. But if you select the tallest 100 persons and the fattest 100 persons on earth you will see that no one in the first group also exists in the 2nd group because being fat or tall requires high energy from the body so one can’t be the fattest and the tallest at the same time. Due to the law of the preservation of energy DNA has to sacrifice one of them to reach the extreme levels in the other one. 604
Posted by Indian Strategy on March 08, 2012, 05:45 AM | # I made a mistake. France won 52 Nobel Prizes, not 12 with its 65 millions. India’s population is over 1.2 billion, maybe 1.6 billion. The high caste Indians (Brahmins) are said to be 4.3 percent of the population. So there is no doubt that there are over 50 millions of Brahmins and Parsis (the minimum expectation) and they are very wealthy (no excuse for not winning Nobel Prizes because (!) of poverty). Okay, then you can do the comparison. The Indians know how to accuse the Chinese of being uncreative then why could they win just 6 Nobel Prizes with a population far over 50 millions? Finally there are certainly other factors playing roles in the growth of the countries. In fact if you go to the world fact book of CIA, 605
Posted by Chinese Strategy on March 23, 2012, 11:05 PM | # Wow, the Chinese have nice theory about Indians. Bringing Go is absolutely useless since very few Indians even heard about that game. But in east Asia they have popular games very similar to chess - such as shogi in Japan etc. If more than 90% of go players are from east-asia, it is only too obvious that the better players will be east-asians. I hope Indians can pick up this game soon. It is true that computers find it harder to beat humans in go. However, it also true that far less people and research and money have been spent on it. And everything that computers can do well is not necessarily outside strategy. Inventions- I don’t know about Japanese inventions, but chinese inventions have a pretty bad rep in india. There are linguistic phrases in India like “that thing will not even last as long as a chinese toy”. Chinese toys look good. Very cute. But they simply don’t last. May be it’s because that they work so hard that they forget to concentrate. Oh and MVS’s IQ- I actually heard that her entire IQ of 200+ was a fraud or misunderstanding. Her actual IQ was 132 in childhood and close to 180 in adulthood. So, she actually increased her IQ. In any case, whatever is true, the guy had a point. Plenty of people have changed their IQs. It is not fixed.
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Posted by Astro on March 30, 2012, 01:27 AM | # The average IQ disparity between China and India are merely due to the average literacy rate, China 95.4 and India is 74. Indians will supersede Chinese when the literacy rate comes to a par. India has a wide social, cultural and diversity than any other nation. The Indian population can be grouped in terms of the four traditional caste super-categories:1. Brahmin 2. Merchant, 3. Peasant,4. 4.1 Dalit 4.2 (“Untouchable”) 4.2 Scheduled Caste, 4.3 Muslims with North Indian vs South Indian geographical distinction. 607
Posted by bulut umut on March 31, 2012, 02:42 PM | # Rec1Man is just an ordinary commenter, not a scientist. His numbers of estimations mean simply nothing. The Indians in US are highly selected. They are not representative. 608
Posted by Astro on March 31, 2012, 05:55 PM | # If you cant digest Rec1Man, just leave it. What about Richwine immigration IQ study with Indian IQ at 112, higher than the Jew, European, and East Asian? these too are mere estimations ? What you mean by Indians in US are highly selected, Jews and East Asians are not highly selected in the Richwine immigration IQ study? The stage for study should be in equal grounds, environments and unbiased. India’s literary rate and economy are much lesser than China is due to the corrupted Indian political/social system and hence the disparity in average IQ as it adversely effect educational opportunities equally to the public as a whole. China too had gone through that phase from corruption, poverty,illiteracy and average low IQ. If you disagree then you have to admit that the forefathers of Chinese people were dumb, so IQ too is tangible, a collective IQ has to do with society. The fact remains that East Asians are the most hard working people but not the highest intelligent people. The Average IQ of Jews in Israel are way below than an American Jew, even less than average, so which one is the right representation? if you take the IQ of Jews in Israel as the right representation as per your logic then Jews are below average in Intelligence, mind around 27 Nobel prices were attributed to Jews in science, almost all from outside Israel. Your logic is that the caliber of a warrior is independent of the weapons he use which is insane, if that is the case many should have been still using bows and arrows. Countries like UK, Australia etc are racial to a certain extend and hence not representative at the moment unlike US. It is evident from Queen being the head of the state even in this 21st century for these countries. By the way the highest IQ in the world is 225 for a south Indian, non brahmin girl, Vishalini of age 11, she will be in the Guinness book by the age of 14. The Indian state and central governments have failed to recognise and appreciate Vishalini’s extraordinary achievements yet. That is India…......................... 609
Posted by indian strategy on April 01, 2012, 08:59 AM | # The Indians in the US earn more than the Jews but UK Indians perform worse than the British people in UK. That is why US Indians aren’t representative. If the US Indians were representative then India would be the wealthiest country in the world. You also ask an IDIOT question about why Indians in the US were representative but not the other immigrants? The average income of India is only 3.700 $ but 16.700 for Russia. A smart Indian will have a lot of reasons to emigrate to US from India. But a smart Russian won’t have much reason to emigrate from Russia to US as Russia is already wealthy (at least much better from India). Of course the very high achievers from an extremely poor, over 1.2 billion population will be able to emigrate to US. Can you expect the same quality for French or German immigrants? France and Germany are already wealthy. Why would a smart person emigrate to US? It is a BIG SHAME for India to have an average income of 3.700 $. That already explains everything. Despite the British heritage they can manage to perform nothing. Only 40 percent of population in Israel is Ashkenazim and they are immigrants from East Europe. They are less intelligent than American Jews. The ones who can’t emigrate to US can immigrate to Israel. So Israel is their 2nd choice. High scorers in conscientiousness, emotional stability (or low neuroticism if reversed) and openness work harder. That is exactly what the questionnaires say. The whites (especially the Jews) work harder, not the East Asians. 610
Posted by Astro on April 01, 2012, 06:06 PM | # Read my post first thoroughly and then comment wisely, it includes the UK representation, UK is racial that is why a lot of unrest there and UK is no more an economy. It seems you are a very stupid person, brush up your G.K, India is the 3rd largest Economy right now not due to these smart American Indians, which discredits your theory that the smart Indians has moved out. In fact the second category of Indians has moved out as the first need not to move out as they are well off, their average IQ is in 120 range and are predominantly rich. If you cant agree, fine, even with 74% literacy rate and with these dumb Indians how can be India in the 3rd third place in GDP cutting even Japan?. Only US and China are above India. India is much smaller (1/3rd in size) than both US and China and even Russia where Russia is not a player at all now may be in the future. Leave EU as they are not a single nation. I consider Japan is the best economy since they are a very tiny nation. If you don’t know, India too has the 2nd fastest growth rate in the world. India has the potential to be no: 1, obviously which no one can predict as India has numerous internal issues unlike any other nation. You are foolishly debating on the per capital income, man India has one billion people and hence the per capital income is less. In that way Chinese pci is way below US, Japan and western countries. Hope you agree with population, pci will come down drastically, simple maths. pci is only an average income that doesn’t mean all Indians are poor. Qatar has the highest p.c.i , their average IQ is 78 only so? obviously the population is less. You are talking about British heritage, British screwed up India man, changed the history,divided India resulted in a non ending headache for India, the Pakistan, though there are some contribution which cannot be denied. India and China both has an ancient civilization which British lacked. The European civilization is just after renaissance, quite new apart from Greece and Rome. It is true that the Europeans did well and did a lot of contribution, though drawing the key elements from other cultures, maths from Indians and gun powder from Chinese. The intention was imperialism. I am not getting into the dark ages as everybody knows about it. Mind that India was the richest country in the world prior to the Arab Invasion , both in wealth and in knowledge. Foreign invasions only trashed India. I agree the difference with poor and rich is more there in India which is due to the wide gap in education and the corrupted social and political systems which are being corrected, such time India has to stay in the 3rd slot. Learn more about India, before posting commands. I am least bothered about jews they are a smart bunch of people doing good w/o hurting others. My intention is not to boost Indians and sub-dude others, If anyone felt like that then it was not intentional. I am against these racial morons that is all. There are smart and dumb people in every culture and race , if you cant live with it then that is your problem, It is better for you to abstain from cracking your head here as it will not yield any fruitful results !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 611
Posted by Chinese Strategy on April 01, 2012, 06:23 PM | # A smart Indian will have no reason to migrate to USA. Firstly, things are MUCH cheaper in India. And India provides greater privacy. A smart Indian can figure that much out. A rich person living in India is effectively the richest person on earth. He will have no reason to migrate unless he works for an American company. I mean who the hell prefers to live in a place where there are cameras all over your head? And who the hell prefers to live in a place where you have to pay Euro 2 to 4 just to go to the toilet? Living in these countries will also mean adopting a very different culture. The ones who migrate to places like australia or UK are mostly poor but bold people desperate to improve their income. If these poor uneducated people can earn some money even as drivers or barbers and then send back even half the earning back to their family back in India, they effectively make their family back in India richer. Because $100 in these countries mean very little, but mean a LOT in India. It’s a sacrifice these people make for the sake of their family. Some others that go are businessmen and can make much more money in UK than India.
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Posted by indian strategy on April 02, 2012, 05:30 AM | # It seems that you are surely an Indian as you have proved with your idiot commands. But I am not a Chinese or an East Asian. Don’t try to teach me economics as I am already an economist. India is the 3rd economy due to its population, nothing else and China is the 2nd due to the same reason. They are not success stories. America is the 1st economy and its population is greater than 300 millions. But still they have a very high income per capita though some of the populations are blacks and Hispanics. The Indians perform only in America very well, not in the other countries which proves that the very best of the Indians migrated to US. Take the Brahmins and Parsees out nothing will be left in India. The growth rates high are because of the extremely low average income and cheap labor. If everything is cheaper then migrate to Sub-saharan African countries, they are cheaper there. 613
Posted by Astro on April 02, 2012, 01:31 PM | # You are not an economist for sure,If you are then either you are stupid or racial. Now you are saying even China is not a success story, so you are not an economist for sure everyone even idiots know that the two most success full nations in terms of growth now is China and India and the whole world is taking about it. Being an economist how do you rate a country’s growth ? can you please highlight on these please? Why only Indians, the best performing immigrants are US immigrants, take Jews , blacks, for that matter every ethnicity, that in US. The credit is for USA that is why we have a black president. Will this happen in UK , Canada , Australia ? I doubt. Brahmins are not the richest class in India and more over they are just 5%, parsis are 0.02%, which cant give an impact in such a big country. The real factor is literacy is growing in India and other classes are getting smarter, Brahmins are no more a competition in even getting into premium schools. Those days are gone. Why Iran is not a success full country from where the parses came ? Ethnicity changed after migrating to India ? Did they mixed with Indians ? So then India has to be credited for that in either way. They landed up in Gujarat and in Mumbai the most industrialized states in India, They resorted to business and became successful being a closed community, In fact just 2 big corporates are parses and thus they got the name, which is in fact is a pie compared to the vast Indian economy. India welcomes everybody, that is how the British crooks came in pretending for business ( East India company) and screwed up India. As I said India is a very complicated country you cannot analyse the Indian situation being an outsider by just presuming things Like you. I studied and lived exclusively with Chinese , Indians and Americans in their respective countries and I have a better picture than you. racialism and fanaticism blinds even intelligent people and may act as idiots that is what happened to you. First digests the fact that everybody is born with a brain and from the same factory the nature so the technology is same, the difference is in the environments in a social level and efforts in a personal level that is what makes people different. Then coming to genius is just around 1% and is evenly distributed hence leave it. Use your academic skills in a better way as both of us are wasting our time here. I know you will come up with some stupid argument, So I am retiring and let it be that way if we have a difference. 614
Posted by indian strategy on April 02, 2012, 03:55 PM | # There are 5 goals for an economist which one of them is growth rate. However poor countries always have more advantage because of cheaper labor. When Japan was a very poor country in the 1960’s they had this advantage and managed to grow at a rate of 10 % per year. But when it became a wealthy country in the 90’s it managed to grow at only 1.5 rate per year because the labor was too expensive. Though there are many mistakes even the idiot writers of Wikipedia know this fact. Like I said don’t teach me my profession. India’s income per capita is just 3.700 $. Even if there is no population growth (which is impossible) in India and there is 10 % of growth rate theoretically (which is another impossible situation) 10 years later the average income will be 9.597 $ which means simply NOTHING! That is math! 3.700 If India or China manages to have the same income per capita of Russia or even Brazil one day (I don’t believe) they will no longer be able to have these growth rates like Japan couldn’t do the same thing what it did in the 60’s. Do a favor to me and don’t waste my time trying to prove your idiot comments. It is clear that you don’t understand anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan With average growth rates of 10% in the 1960s, 5% in the 1970s, and 4% in the 1980s, Japan was able to establish and maintain itself as the world’s second largest economy from 1968 until 2010, when it was supplanted by the People’s Republic of China. Growth in Japan throughout the 1990s at 1.5% was slower than growth in other major developed economies. 615
Posted by Astro on April 02, 2012, 07:58 PM | # How can I talk to a person who cant understand the pci and the population correlation. U.K and Russia has a comparable GDP but why the pci of Russia is no where near to UK?. Cheap labor is only one of the factors, or else Africa should have been growing the most. The population growth of India will turn out to be a boon as India will be still young in the work force and will maintain more or less the same growth in the long run with a bonus of a huge domestic market, even China will be handicapped in a later stage as they have restricted the population growth. Japan’s growth was mainly due to innovation and competitive pricing. India and China were poor due to the stupid Soviet model. Anyway I have no time to waste further, have better work to do. 616
Posted by Curious Indian on April 06, 2012, 12:01 PM | # If indian strategy is really not east-asian like he claims, i wonder what motivation he has in expressing such comments against india. 618
Posted by indian strategy on April 09, 2012, 03:05 PM | # I think curious Indian and Astro are the same person attacking my personality because of having the disability to prove anything wrong in my comments. Sure, that is exactly the dirty, disgusting Indian style, writing comments under a different name. Anyone who reads all the comments in this web site will see how the Indians have inferiority complex and are trying to prove themselves. You are not in a situation to judge my economical comments as you are a fool. Just show my comments to an economist he will agree that I am an economist and show him your comments he will say that you are an idiot. What motivation should I have? Not all people need to be Chinese or East Asian to tell the truth (like you think so) if you believe in justice, fair, honesty. Look at the link below who (possibly an American, surely not a Chinese) claims to be a neuroscientist. Though there are some points that I don’t agree with Linda (that writing requires less g than chess) I can understand what she means by the reaction time. In solving a math problem the reaction time may be important but the other point which she forgets is that IQ doesn’t need to be limited with just understanding. Vocabulary which is said to be the best correlating subtest according to factor analysis method isn’t limited with understanding. It is also related with memory. A person with good vocabulary skills can learn the same word with having heard of 3 times while a normal person learns it with 10 times. The vocabulary skills of nations or races (whites and East Asians) can be estimated with the extrapolation method. You measure the math score of each nation and guess their vocabulary scores with how much they are better or worse in vocabulary compared to math in sd=15. Though there isn’t a research like this Lynn believes that the whites have better verbal skills. By the way if China or India manages to have a mean income of 20.000 $ decades later (surely never ever) they will need personality traits other than IQ. When the countries get wealthier IQ plays less role. The wealthiest state of the US, California has a mean IQ of just 100 (http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQ-States.htm#P) but it is the most creative economy. That is why 60 percent of the population is democrat. http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/05/hi-iq-not-needed-for-tennis-but-needed-for-writing.html 619
Posted by Rooboy on April 09, 2012, 08:46 PM | # nicknguyen, I have seen the same thing in Vietnam. Having travelled through vietnam in 1997, what i saw was a ethnically backward people (IQ tests prove this, even though vietnam’s iq levels are distorted by the Lyn study and given the same rating after averaging that of Japan etc). There was filth everywhere (given vietnam has a relatively lower population that India and China, I was execting a much more cleaner and advanced society. What I saw was filthy street, woman peeing and spitting on side streets and a society that although it talks about being like Singapore and other SE asian countries, was far far far behind. The fact is as country deveops economically, so does their general level of well being and IQ level. China’s IQ tested during the Mao period for example would be much lower than it is now…. Rooboy 620
Posted by Astro on April 11, 2012, 01:40 AM | # Your are wrong, Astro and Curious Indian are different. I am not so cheap to provoke someone. I am only defending the truth. Your long post doesn’t make any sense. East Asians has only 3rd place in Richwine study after Indians and Jews which stands intact irrespective of which ever way you bark. East Asians are the most Intelligent people has no support other than your personal views which are obviously biased as everybody knew it and no one will take it seriously. After a certain IQ the whites vanish ? don’t make an ass yourself. All most all the scientific inventions are from whites. Even your early posts reflects the maximum number of Nobel prices won by whites in science and there by you are contradicting your own statement, so please revise your own post before commenting which will make you an ass again. There is no evolutionary pressure for brain to evolve as before, like primitive men, Information assimilation has already superseded the natural evolution, 1-100 part. Moreover humans are not even using 10% of the brain capacity and hence a lot of room yet to be resorted. Having said this, don’t bring up another argument as “we Chinese people are using the most brain capacity from the rest 90%”!!!!!. Recent studies are showing that even the brain size is shrinking which again discredits your evolutionary theory, probably it is a devolution rather than an evolution. Most of the computational power has been shared by computers now could be another reason. It is sad that now you are trying to disprove the correlation of IQ and intelligence, which is only showing your desperation. You couldn’t keep up the debate. You could not reply to my post on April 02, 2012, 07:58 PM”, which I can understand now. So why cant you better give up, racial morns has no place in a modern society!!!!!!!!! 621
Posted by indian strategy on April 11, 2012, 01:35 PM | # I answered about the Richwine study in details before but as you are a fool you can’t understand. Read it several times, not once! Lynn measured India as 81 and that was not only one measure. It is even lower than the American blacks. Average income of India supports his study very well. That is exactly what India deserves. No one would care about India if there were not few smart races due to the caste system. The long post about the East Asians belongs to a neuroscientist, not to me. Read the whole link. Inventions and discoveries require other personal traits, not just high IQ. I won’t repeat what I wrote before because you don’t understand. You probably categorize Indians also as whites. They may be closer to the whites than the East Asians but they are absolutely not whites. Arabs, Iranians aren’t whites either! India’s only 6 Nobel Prizes except Peace prove (!) how creative (!) Indians are! I think as being a white (!) you want to share the victory of the whites’ Nobel Prizes against the East Asians. The Arabs or Iranians could also do the same thing assuming themselves as whites. Don’t worry the Europeans or Americans don’t care about the Indians, Arabs, Iranians, Pakistani etc. they are all in the low IQ category. The claim that humans don’t use their brains in the max capacity is only a myth to delude idiots like you. Evolution never produces anything which the body doesn’t use. If anything isn’t needed anymore as the environmental conditions change it disappears again with evolution by time. We have unused tooth, they will disappear in the future. I think the Indians are happy with their average income of only 3.700 $! It is extremely low but sufficient to make them happy.))) someone said ‘the Indians do not use toilet paper! They use their bare hands too for wiping their a$$! If you see a basin of water in front of an India toilet, stay away!’ yes, they don’t use as they have no Money but stil they are happy. A french, German, British or an american would hate living with only 20.000 $ but Indians are stil happy with only 3.700 $ because they are absolutely simple people! It is not worth wasting time with your idiot questions because you couldn’t understand my earlier answers before as you are a fool. 622
Posted by indian strategy on April 11, 2012, 04:29 PM | # I really what kind of an agenda the author has by flattering India. If nutrition gets better the Indians will get smarter. One could say the same thing for Africa! So what? In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_growth_1990–2007 1.990 133.219.577 And it managed to grow 26.02 percent per capita annually but it is still not a miracle as the country is still very poor. But Norway at the 48th rank managed to grow 6.62 % annually though it doesn’t have a HUGE DOMESTIC MARKET (!) either. It is a miracle as Norway was already very wealthy. 623
Posted by Astro on April 12, 2012, 12:47 PM | # As one of my Russian friend said Chinese are the most hardworking people physically that is why they are good in Kung Fu and in manufacturing jobs. where Indians are good in Yoga/Mediation and Software development and hence creative and intelligent. Richwine study proved it. Culturally once India ruled china (Buddhisam). Now due to west China has grown as they have transferred the technology and build the infrastructure for China. They proved that they are the most ungrateful people (not all Chinese, there are many good Chinese people I know) on the planet earth. See the invasion of Tibet. Since you lost the debate, you resorted to dealing in a filthy manner about cleaning ass etc. You do not deserve to be here, go to some pornographic sights and continue your discussion there, there may be people in your category there. Our discussion ends here as you could not cut any of my points and also diverted the discussion in a desperate way to fitly subjects by side tracking from the main subject. Since you are not a representation for Chinese people why I should continue with you. Any way I am posting one of my published articles here not for you but for others. 624
Posted by Astro on April 12, 2012, 01:03 PM | # IS PERSONALITY TRAITS BEYOND GENOME This is obviously a wonderful subject to debate and there are few critics in favoring genotypes and the others against it. The recent studies favored IQ in correlation to nueroplastry especially in childhood, stressing on envi-ronment and efforts rather than genotypes. It will be more appropriate to choose the word stereotypes instead of defining as genotypes. It is true that the early models supports genotypes in favor of IQ, the new model emphasize more on neuroplastry which happens predomi-nantly in the childhood because of the variance in those periods compared to matured ones. We are not yet in an ideal multiracial and multicultural society to assure the validity of genotypes. Even the hapmap project which carried out is basically intended for researchers to use the data for the studies pertaining to diseases rather than studying the IQ gaps in races. Another notable factor in hap map project was that the samples are extremely small Phase 1 290 , phase 2 290 and phase 3 1030,. There is no way to find the educational and environmental factors are identical as the identity of the individuals are kept as classified. More over for the sustenance of hereditary traits there should be halo types which can only happen in small groups. That is why main land Chinese have a less average IQ than a Hong Kong or Singaporean Chinese? How come African Americans has a wide gap of IQ variance with African blacks? These are the questions to be addressed. The counter argument can be the smartest has moved out from their home land, but they have not demonstrated the high IQ what they recently have with their parents who actually migrated earlier which marks as daylight that environment factors projects out always. Another objection can be that since they have migrated to other countries and if the race mixing is not much dominant then there can be more halo types, but again the time frame is extremely small to substantiate such arguments. This implies there is a strong correlation of the environments and efforts which boost once IQ and hence the gap which we see. Every ethnic group has their own social norms and set up even in a multicultural environment. The home grown terrorist are a typical example for such conclusions. By saying so I didn’t mean there is a genital factor which is favorable to IQ , the variance is genetical factors are obvious as no two DNA’s match, so such variance can be correlated to individuals with in the races to individuals among the races. Results of the US election of 2008 is an eye opener as Obama being a black. The younger and educated voters favored Obama unlike the older and less educated ones. so the racially biased category of people lies in the latter group. The same with racially biased IQ proponents too. In order to have a closer look we need to get hold of some elementary knowledge about genetics and it’s role even though we are very early in the science of genetics, still it is worth discussing it here. The DNA in our cells are comprised of four chemical building blocks adenine, thymine, cytosine and guanine , abbreviated as A,T,C, and G. There are more than 6 billion of these chemical bases combined together in a sequence to form 23 pairs of chromosomes which defines a single human cell. There 23 pairs which are contributed from the parents with each pair has a combination of one from the mother and the other from the father. These sequencing are instrumental in defining our physical traits, possibilities for genetical disorders and diseases. The genetical sequencing of different individuals is remarkably similar to hundreds of bases. The normal variations happen at about 1200 bases, on an average. One person might have an A at the location for G for another person or either an extra base or a missing one. Each distinct letter of a chromosomal region is known as an allele, and a collection of alleles in person’s chromosomes is called a genotype. The genetic differences in bases are known as single nucleotide polymorphisms or simply SNP’s pronounced as “snips” and are in an order of approximately 10 million SNP’s estimated to occur in the human genome. Since the researchers are unable to locate as on where is a particular gene resides in a chromosome which is responsible for say high blood pressure. they have to do a round about method by using SNP’s as markers to identify the gene. It is cumbersome to test all the 10 million common SNP’s. of a persons chromosomes instead they can compare the SNP’s of people who have high blood pressure with people without there by identifying the gene responsible for hypertension using that SNP pointer. Also it has been noted that the genetic variants that are nearer each other tend to be inherited together. For example a set of people can have identical genetical variations around all the SNP’s in the chromosomal region surrounding a particular variant A instead of G at a given location in the chromosome. There regions of linked SNP’s are called halo types. These halo types can be seen in a given population with concentrations of different percentages as 55% have one type of halo type another with 30% and some with 8% and the rest can have a variety of less common type of halo types. These are spread across evenly with in races than among races. This again discredits the correlation of IQ advantage with particular races. Every race has an identical genome makeup of a 99.9 % only. The disparity is in halo types which are universally spread and hence the race and IQ correlations are a myth. American Jews were famous for their highest IQ which was now over took by Indians in the Richwine Study Indicates that race has nothing to do with IQ. Environments, efforts and halotypes which are spread across the races rather than within races indicate that IQ is tangible. Since this is the era of globalization such differences should be uprooted even in the embryo stage to build a peaceful multicultural society worldwide. 625
Posted by Curious Indian on April 12, 2012, 04:06 PM | # LOL, this guy thought that Astro and I are the same? Poor intuition! I have considered another possibility and rejected it - which is that he is related to the blog and wants the blog to be alive, but I don’t think that’s the case - racist attitudes like his are common. Astro, you are indeed right. Primitive men had larger brains. Also, math or physics majors, who have much higher IQs, actually don’t have that much larger brain. BTW, there are many computers that can score 160+ easily in an IQ test. Strategy, About vocabulary - you will be surprised to know that the average educated indian knows 3, or at least 2, different languages. That’s 3x vocabulary. Oh and let me remind you, 2.2 GHz quad core can easily be much faster than a 3.6 GHz single core pentium. So even if there was a case that chinese brains carry signals faster, it will not mean that they process more. But there is no solid proof for even that. And you call us dirty because we defend our country? What kind of a dirty coward are you? you hide behind internet anonymity and curse another country that you know very little about. Perhaps you should watch this: I have a lot of respect for the Chinese, but not racist bastards like you.
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Posted by indian strategy on April 12, 2012, 04:55 PM | # You lost the debate (as if there was any). I answered every question of yours in details and again and again you ask the same stupid questions. If you read my 622nd post there is no huge market advantage like your stupid 615th post claims so. You turn to the Richwine study though the Indians perform worse everywhere else except US. You should ask this to Lynn, not the author of this web site. As to the toilet paper just read the 17th post in this forum and the 20th post as a reply to that. Yes, that is exactly the typical character of the Indians like I observed in many other forums. 627
Posted by Astro on April 12, 2012, 09:54 PM | # @Curious Indian,You came up with some good points, we must root out any racial morons whether it is Indians, Chinese or whites. I just watched the Suzuki / Rushton debate. Ruston totally lost. As Suzuki said Ruston should have been fired from the westen university. I don’t know how come Ontario government allowed and funded such morons with public money, Liberal party has to be blamed for this as they are in power in Ontario for some time. Did you noticed even Rushton admitted that 50% are environmental factors which catering to IQ score, see that makes the whole difference. This Rushton is another idiot, How could he became a professor of psychology, I dont know. He never considered the EQ which is a vital factor for enhancing the IQ, Cultural and religious factors enhances the EQ, not ethnicity. As you know racial people always have a lower IQ as well as EQ, that is why they cant win a debate and will resort to filthy arguments. This Chinese guy initially came up with some good though common points which I refuted all of them, then he came up with p.c.i and cheap labor argument, due to his low IQ he cant even understand that with population p.c.i will come down. Or we need a very huge GDP. China is 3 times bigger than India in size and in resources so naturally the GDP will be more and hence in pci too in a INDIA VS CHINA scenario, though there are other factors. He skipped to respond to my quote.“U.K and Russia has a comparable GDP but why the pci of Russia is no where near to UK?.“population is the answer which he dont know or cant admit Cheap labor is only one of the factors, or else Africa should have been growing the most.?” no answer for this!!! . This guy could not even understand what I quoted “The population growth of India will turn out to be a boon as India will be still young in the work force and will maintain more or less the same growth in the long run with a bonus of a huge domestic market, even China will be handicapped in a later stage as they have restricted the population growth” What I said is that the population growth will turn out to be a boon (a luck) for India and will have a huge domestic market in the future in India itself and also a young work force” poor guy did not get it. As population grow the domestic market will also grow with in the country. He couldn’t catch it. He claims he is an economist, most probably a high school drop out for sure. It is very simple a person with high IQ can never be racist. Everyone knows that Brain has unlimited capacity, can store unlimited data unlike a computer. This stupid guy argues evolution will not produce anything which is not useful. How do evolution knows that we are going to use gadgets like computers to store data which is in a way depriving us to use the more potentiality of the brain as we are resorting to computers, stupid guy.” See David Susuki even being an east Asian origin, he is against such racial morons why because he is living in a multiracial society unlike this idiot may be from some rural province from China interested in toilet papers only. May be we should only deal with sensible Chinese fellows who are living in a multicultural society. Did you noticed his comments on toilet paper, filthy guy. I will watch the other videos later thanks for the link and dropping in. 628
Posted by indian strategy on April 13, 2012, 05:20 AM | # The reaction time measures the period of the process of understanding, not the period of the electric signals in the brain. If the process is faster the electric signals should be faster. That is what she says so. She doesn’t say ‘as the electric signal are faster they understand faster’ but she says that as they understand faster their brains must have faster electric signals’. It seems you didn’t understand. In fact she says just the reverse of what you understood.))) If you read (I wouldn’t in fact advise as I know that you won’t understand) The G Factor of Arthur Jensen which is said to be the best book about the science of mental abilities in the history he approves that the reaction time is one of the biological correlates of g. One doesn’t need to be a neuroscientist to measure the reaction time. The psychologists also do it. Africa has the youngest work force (!) and no luck. Not only the idiot writers of Wikipedia but even the MOST IDIOT people on earth know this. I read your stupid comments to laugh, not for anything else. But you are going very well, I suggest carry on writing tones of extremely idiot sentences so that the people can understand why there are lots of idiots in India and why the mean IQ is extremely low. You prove that India is just 81, not any more. You are a perfect Indian and you represent your country very well. As to Gordon’s lie in the 17th post it is not surprising to see the simplicity of the lie and that he even doesn’t think of changing his Indian name. Even lying requires some honor (!) and a little bit IQ. The Indians can’t have even that level. 629
Posted by indian strategy on April 13, 2012, 05:27 AM | # By the way the reaction time is measured with milliseconds. They ask you a simple question and you give the answer in less than a second. 630
Posted by Curious Indian on April 14, 2012, 08:32 AM | #
Yes, Astro, indeed you made some very valid points on topics such as p.c.i that he/she was unable to respond to. Sir Richard Feynman had spoken volumes about how psychology, social sciences and related fields are not exactly real sciences. They follow some scientific forms, but for the most part, these are “cargo-cult science” practiced by pseudo-scientists , often motivated by certain political agendas. And they end up INTIMIDATING people. He even compared psychiatrists with witch doctors. To understand how they intimidate, you just have to look at the likes of Rushton. In his speeches, he will say that he has drawn his conclusions based on statistics. He will base his lectures on statistical concepts such as G-factor, which he claims is very highly heritable, without giving the slightest idea to normal people what this thing really means. He will just avoid saying they are complex. However, if you ask a real statistician, they will tell you that this whole G-factor is nothing more than a STATISTICAL ARTIFACT. The whole concept of g-factor is based on correlations. The idea is that the IQ questions which correlates best with other questions(answering one makes you likely to answer others) are the one with highest g-load. Then they use the concept of factor analysis to make a jump from correlation to make statements that imply causation. The whole thing is a logical fallacy really and is based on cyclic logic. They have confused correlations with causation. In fact, an IQ test is SELECTED/RATED to be a good IQ test IF ONLY it CORRELATES with other IQ tests. Can you see the cyclic logic here? To understand better, I suggest you read a guy called Cosma Shalizi. You may also read an article called “Misuses of statistics in the study of intelligence” by Jack Kaplan.
Apart from confusing correlation with causation, another reason why psychologist or social scientist find it hard to do real science is because they deal with what is known as complex systems. The human brain, the human society etc are complex systems. In complexity science there is a concept of EMERGENT PROPERTY. These are properties of the whole systems that are not found in the parts. Intelligence is an emergent property. Something as a simple as a simple IQ score can’t determine something as complex as intelligence. It’s like trying to judge the health of a person with blood pressure alone. Now I am quite liberal and I believe in having the freedom express your opinions and doing research, but Rushton is not a real researcher - he is a pseudoscientist funded by racist organizations.
And Strategy, reaction time is by no means the same as processing power. It just measures how quickly you respond to something. The response itself may be preprogrammed. In general, the speed of decision making seems to depend on a substance called myelin. The more myelinated you brain connections are- the quicker you make decisions. however, the amount of myelination seems to be largely influenced by environment. And myelin may be a doubl-edged sword. While it may make you act fast, it may also make it harder to rewire the relevant connection - making you closed-minded or slave of a habit. 631
Posted by indian strategy on April 14, 2012, 10:40 AM | # It is my fault to think that you and the idiot Astro are the same. It is quiet clear that you must be much smarter than that idiot. And it is a shame for you flattering that idiot. I know that correlations don’t need to be the causations but you should know that both in the social sciences and hard sciences the researches are made like this. For example in the countries which have the highest population growths and the lowest average age (they are the same) the economical growth rates are generally low. Economists have always thought that the population growth was the main reason. They thought that there was a correlation between the two. It is quiet related with Rushton’s r-K theory. The families which have more children have generally lower IQ. It goes the same for the nations and races. The testosterone hormones spend more energy and not much is left for the brain. Though I am quiet liberal and support the freedom of expression I don’t think there is anything wrong with what Rushton claims. Suzuki made one big mistake. He talked about the meaningless of race and then he again said that there was a greater diversity within a race than between 2 races. He denies the existence of race and says this. As to the reaction time I don’t think it can be programmed unless you learn the type of questions before. And I think you can’t learn otherwise the reaction time would be meaningless. They ask a simple question related with IQ and you are supposed to answer correctly in less than a second. It is one of the correlates of g but not the g itself. Among all the subsets the vocabulary is said the have the highest g loading. What it means is the high scorer in the vocabulary test has the highest chance to do better in the other tests. Vocabulary has a lot to do with memory, not just understanding. In America all the enrichment programs like Head Start, Abecedarian Project, Perry Preshool, Milwaukee Project failed to increase the IQs of the children. The most expensive and the most successful program was Abecedarian and it was less than 5 points at the age of 15. IQ at childhood is quiet environmental but at adulthood it goes to its genetic orbit. 632
Posted by Dumb Indian with a BIG mouth on April 14, 2012, 10:42 AM | #
Sir Richard Feynman had spoken volumes about how psychology, social sciences and related fields are not exactly real sciences. They follow some scientific forms, but for the most part, these are “cargo-cult science” practiced by pseudo-scientists , often motivated by certain political agendas. And they end up INTIMIDATING people. He even compared psychiatrists with witch doctors. “——-Curious Indian
However, if you ask a real statistician, they will tell you that this whole G-factor is nothing more than a STATISTICAL ARTIFACT. The whole concept of g-factor is based on correlations. The idea is that the IQ questions which correlates best with other questions(answering one makes you likely to answer others) are the one with highest g-load. Then they use the concept of factor analysis to make a jump from correlation to make statements that imply causation. The whole thing is a logical fallacy really and is based on cyclic logic. They have confused correlations with causation. In fact, an IQ test is SELECTED/RATED to be a good IQ test IF ONLY it CORRELATES with other IQ tests. Can you see the cyclic logic here?
“To understand better, I suggest you read a guy called Cosma Shalizi. You may also read an article called “Misuses of statistics in the study of intelligence” by Jack Kaplan.
Apart from confusing correlation with causation, another reason why psychologist or social scientist find it hard to do real science is because they deal with what is known as complex systems. The human brain, the human society etc are complex systems. In complexity science there is a concept of EMERGENT PROPERTY. These are properties of the whole systems that are not found in the parts. Intelligence is an emergent property. Something as a simple as a simple IQ score can’t determine something as complex as intelligence. It’s like trying to judge the health of a person with blood pressure alone. Now I am quite liberal and I believe in having the freedom express your opinions and doing research, but Rushton is not a real researcher - he is a pseudoscientist funded by racist organizations. ”——-Curious Indian
True, IQ tests can not measure complex systems like brain so accurately so far. Yet that is not the point,. The point is that the tests are statistically valid to correlate and predict. It´s like even though a primitive sand timing device (IQ tests) can not count timing of 100m sprint (IQ) accurately due to various contraints, it can still pretty much tell who is fast(high IQ), who is slow(low IQ) and what are the general differences, in spite of the fact that the sand device that we have is not Rolex. Nothing to do with causation here as we are dealing with the cause, yet. Correlation implied is enough to tell this story. Yes, simple things CAN and ALWAYS determine something complex, as complex as intelligence. That´s the whole beauty of science, isn´t it? With simple quartz watch alike computing power, high IQ people went to the Moon decades ago. Yet with the help of billions of donations and countless sophitiscated int´l bodies around the world for decades, low IQ people of India and Sub Sahara Africa still live in mut huts on top of garbage piles. That´s all you need to know.
” And Strategy, reaction time is by no means the same as processing power. It just measures how quickly you respond to something. The response itself may be preprogrammed. In general, the speed of decision making seems to depend on a substance called myelin. The more myelinated you brain connections are- the quicker you make decisions. however, the amount of myelination seems to be largely influenced by environment. And myelin may be a doubl-edged sword. While it may make you act fast, it may also make it harder to rewire the relevant connection - making you closed-minded or slave of a habit. ”——-Curious Indian
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Posted by Dumb Indian with a BIG mouth on April 14, 2012, 11:01 AM | # ***Nothing to do with causation here as we are NOT dealing with the cause, yet. IQ tests seperate 2 groups of people consistently. Correlation implied is enough to tell this story. 634
Posted by Astro on April 14, 2012, 08:04 PM | # @Dumb Indian/Big mouth, You have some great points and will be always fun to debate in an intelligent way not like that Chinese idiot who skips from one to another w/o keeping up the debate he cant answer. Hope you don’t do that Statistics are always based on probability, they are tangible, and depends on a set of variable factors, they are not abstract. There are not yet any solid race-genetics based study. Even the hap map project which carried out is basically intended for researchers to use the data for the studies pertaining to diseases rather than studying the IQ gaps in races. IQ variations depend on the environments, classical examples are American Indians, American jews, and American blacks vs their own country. Suzuki is a Genius Your quote:-*** The fact that no everyone (indeed not many) can be trained like Schwarzenegger or Usian Bolt contradicts your claim that working memory can be trained like muscles. And working memory (rote learning) is not g even by a long shot. The logical fallacy is what you’re claiming that g= working memory= trained. There is a point what you say everyone cannot became a Schwarzenegger but how many Schwarzenegger’s are there? Same way How many Einstein’s are there? So Genius category will be always there in IQ too which cannot be trained. But everyone can be trained and develop a muscular body with workouts. So to get a 3 digit IQ from 2 digit can be done easily. If you take the 200 million middle class ppl in India which is growing who has adopted the 2 child policy are all in 3 digit IQ categories . Even my own experience which I have restrained to expose so far was it may sound racial. My primary schooling was with Chinese, 80% were Chinese but not even one Chinese kid could stand even with in top 7. If you take mere statistics as you prefer then all of them has a low IQ, how can 80% have a low IQ ? Impossible right ?, Chinese situation is different “Entire attention on one child from the parents in terms of nutrition, education etc cannot be denied as they have resorted to the one child policy, not due to low testosterone loading but due to government policy, Chinese and Indians both were notorious in testosterone load , evidence is in population. Rushton is wrong again Statistics is not science man, Science is beautiful for sure but even science or mathematics has limitations as Godels theory proclaims it. There are self referral statements which are not even computable; Even Allen Turing has admitted it. The highest IQ ppl went to moon is true as always the notable scientists are in genius category, But mind their ancestors were living in a more muddy conditions in the Europe in the dark ages.,These people were ruled for more than 1000 years by Romans,due to low IQ ?. West became smart after renaissance only, Why due to IQ mutation or the over night renaissance? .Chinese ppl were also living in mud and were a set of dumb and poor ppl take 50’s, yet all are not still out from it. Western civilization uplifted them with globalization; west build the entire infrastructure for China. But everybody forgets that the base for moon mission is science, and the base for science is mathematics ( decimal / Binary systems both are the inventions of Indians, not like silly things as gun powder and paper ). Albert Einstein acknowledged this due to his unbiased and sensitive mind which recalls his greatness not only as a great scientist but also as a great personality. In his own words “ We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made”-Albert Einstein”. Obviously some one in his genius category can only acknowledge this as such ppl will also have a high EQ too. “If Indians had a patent on decimal system then India should have been the world Bank. “Yes, simple things CAN and ALWAYS make something complex,ex:- decimal system. But simple things cannot determine complex things. Take quantum mechanics, even string theory is failing. Determinism totally failed. Brain is the most complex system, science is a child in front of it. Even genetics will not help as long as there are unpredictable factors due to freewill, brain capacity and plasticity unlike Turing systems which are predictable. that is why AI will be doomed to be failed. The intelligence will be always be shrouded under mystery. How can you even think a simple statistical system can predict the most complex system the brain ……You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to infer such simple observation. If you reply try to stay in the subject unlike the other guy. You could not cut any of Curious Indians points, He may have another full set loaded for you….......... 635
Posted by Curious Indian on April 15, 2012, 06:34 AM | # @indian strategy I agree with your view that correlations may not always be useless, but they are never enough to show a causal relationship- no matter how high. And if you are being paid to announce highly offensive and highly useless study results without even having the need to establish a causal relationship - there is a need to be concerned. That’s what Suzuki said, basically. And there is no contradiction in what Suzuki said. Biologically race is not very meaningful, but there is obviously a social notion of race - people report themselves as belonging to some race. If you ask Lewontin, he will tell you that Rushton has interpreted the r-k theory upside down. Graves will tell you that r-k theory is false entirely. yes, vocabulary has high g-loading. The reason I avoided vocabulary is because it should be quite obvious that it has a cultural bias and someone motivated enough and having access to proper resources should be able to pick up new words. Like I said, an average educated Indian knows about 3 languages. From my observations, plenty of Indians from all social classes pick up new words much faster than I do and my own vocabulary isn’t that bad - I know several languages plus a few programming languages. If vocabulary is indeed an important measure, then I am almost certain that there is a cultural bias in tests if Indians don’t score high in some tests. Many experts think that things like backward digit span which is closely related to working memory are closely related to g. And to me, it indeed seems if Indians indeed have some kind of deficit it’s more likely to be in working memory than vocabulary.To give an example, in India we have About pre-programmed responses, even if you don’t know the exact question, there is always a difference in the degree of familiarity to certain sets of questions and that can make a big difference. @BIG mouth Or perhaps what needs to pointed out depends a bit on the culture you are a part of? And did I hit a nerve here by pointing out the obvious?/ Does the obvious truth hurt? Why? @Astro BTW, you probably know ,but not all godel statements are based on just self-reference, some are based on infinities. In fact, one Turing’s proof is based on the fact that countable infinity is not the same as uncountable infinity. 636
Posted by Curious Indian on April 15, 2012, 06:42 AM | # I am reposting the big-mouth portion because the reference comments did not appear. @BIG mouth Or perhaps what needs to pointed out depends a bit on the culture you are a part of? And did I hit a nerve here by pointing out the obvious?/ Does the obvious truth hurt? Why?
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Posted by Dumb Indian with a BIG mouth on April 15, 2012, 07:31 AM | # Astro: —-Statistics are always based on probability, they are tangible, and depends on a set of variable factors, they are not abstract. There are not yet any solid race-genetics based study. Even the hap map project which carried out is basically intended for researchers to use the data for the studies pertaining to diseases rather than studying the IQ gaps in races. IQ variations depend on the environments, classical examples are American Indians, American jews, and American blacks vs their own country. Suzuki is a Genius—- *** Excuse me, but I am not used to argue with double-digit IQers as I usually loss patience due to that fact that I don’t know from where to start correcting them…just countless dumb claims one after another…. Oke, that you don’t see race-based genetics doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Many race-based genetics are there, for ages, yet they are censored by mainstream media. “classical examples” you raised are in fact classic fallacies which can be easily refuted as they have been numerous times. Suzuki is a liberal idiot btw, to put it mildly. ——There is a point what you say everyone cannot became a Schwarzenegger but how many Schwarzenegger’s are there? Same way How many Einstein’s are there? So Genius category will be always there in IQ too which cannot be trained. But everyone can be trained and develop a muscular body with workouts. So to get a 3 digit IQ from 2 digit can be done easily. If you take the 200 million middle class ppl in India which is growing who has adopted the 2 child policy are all in 3 digit IQ categories . Even my own experience which I have restrained to expose so far was it may sound racial. My primary schooling was with Chinese, 80% were Chinese but not even one Chinese kid could stand even with in top 7. If you take mere statistics as you prefer then all of them has a low IQ, how can 80% have a low IQ ? Impossible right ?,—- ***oh my, you still don’t get it, do you? My Schwarzenegger analogy has nothing to do with “how many”, but “how to become”… ***India has 200m middleclass? What’s the definition of Indian middleclass? “Own 1 mobile phone, a coloured TV and a 3-wheel (or more) vehicle” according to Indian govt. By the same definition, there are probably 200 million plus middle class in prosperous superpower Sub Sahara Africa as well…. ***As for your primary school example, in my primary school and high school, almost all top 5 were ethnic Chinese… your point is?
*** Genetically the Chinese are drastically different from the Indians. In fact they are almost mirror images as the Whites and the Blacks. Only SOME Indians from Northeast India have relatively low testosterone (then again, Indians by and large don’t have evolutionarily advanced features that East Asians have) due to admixture with their Mongol conquers several hundred years ago. Vast majority of Indian have High testosterone instead. It proves that Rushton is right. ***… “brain part removal”, “easy neural path rewiring” ? where? In India? Perhaps after those operations, you could give me a ring to have a drink…
*** Statistics is one of the most important tools of modern sciences. Godels and Turing…what they have anything to do with discrediting stats ? —-The highest IQ ppl went to moon is true as always the notable scientists are in genius category, But mind their ancestors were living in a more muddy conditions in the Europe in the dark ages.,These people were ruled for more than 1000 years by Romans,due to low IQ ?.—- *** warm climate is one of the key reasons for jump-starting ancient agrarian economies. How early one had an agrarian economy has little to do with one’s IQ. In warm climates such as India and Sub-sahara Africa, you drop a seed carelessly today and forget it, it will grow into a fruit tree tomorrow. Yet both India and Africa have been major food importers and the UN food aid recipients for decades… No surprise there.
*** Black Death curled a large section of lower class + huge infusion of advanced Chinese tech through Chinese/Arab merchant fleet/s in Italy + competitive and free social/economical environments… , based on already high average IQ of indigenous Europeans.
***Yet with the same globalisation, and with more investments, worldwide large scale donations and the UN Food Aids for decades, India and Sub-Sahara Africa haven’t been lifted by the West even under democratic rules. How come the Chinese made it and India/Africa failed?
—-But everybody forgets that the base for moon mission is science, and the base for science is mathematics ( decimal / Binary systems both are the inventions of Indians, not like silly things as gun powder and paper ). Albert Einstein acknowledged this due to his unbiased and sensitive mind which recalls his greatness not only as a great scientist but also as a great personality. In his own words “ We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made”-Albert Einstein”.—— *** Einstein was drunk and tried to be PC. Chimps knew how to count bananas long before the Indians did, didn’t they?
——Obviously some one in his genius category can only acknowledge this as such ppl will also have a high EQ too. “If Indians had a patent on decimal system then India should have been the world Bank. ***Many countries, China for example In I’Çhing, claim invented decimal system long before India. The fact that Indians have big mouthes compensates for their dismal brain power. Well, God is fair. ***Determinism totally failed only according to you? ***A simple statistical system CAN predict complex star formations and the beyond in galaxies billions light years away, let alone the tiny brain of yours…
***after Hindu “brain part removal” and “easy neural path rewiring”, perhaps?
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Posted by indian strategy on April 15, 2012, 09:15 AM | # Curious Indian, you obviously know absolutely nothing about the experiments in the US, otherwise you wouldn’t ask for solid proofs. IQ can not be improved, that was the final conclusion of all the experiments in America. http://www.arthurhu.com/index/aintell.htm @@Abecedarian Project IF YOU PUMP $10,000 A YEAR INTO POOR BABIES, THEY’LL GAIN 5 IQ POINTS This study claims that if you pump lots of money into poor kids at ABCEDARIAN CLAIMS PRESCHOOL FIXES IQ WITHOUT FADE-OUT IQ DIFFERENCES DID NOT STICK, BUT KIDS DID BETTER IN LIFE IQ IQ differences vs control group Claim - differences did not fade completely, but 15 point gap has NY TIMES SAYS ABECEDARIAN WORKS NEWSWEEK: ABECEDARIAN SHOWS GAINS AT AGE 15 VS HEAD START 639
Posted by dumb chinese with small dick and 2mm eyes on April 15, 2012, 10:25 AM | # LOL ,Chinese claiming high IQ with stupid statistics.Can anyone name any chinese / east asian genius scientist or mathematician?.Most of their Inventions are just random discoveries,that too discovered over a long period.Most of them are insignificant too.They have no solid scientific proofs.Their mathematic contributions are just pathetic.What do chinese have today?.Only third rate copy paste stuff,with technology stolen from european countries. 640
Posted by Astro on April 15, 2012, 01:30 PM | # @ Big mouth Oh god, I think these Chinese IQ figures are manipulated, as there are controversy on this , could be true that is what I am getting from your answers
***oh my, you still don’t get it, do you? My Schwarzenegger analogy has nothing to do with “how many”, but “how to become”… We are talking about how many ” Average IQ level ” of countries implies numbers right ?. how to become is by enhancing,economy, literacy, nutrition etc. Genetics only plays when it comes to Genius, Artists, poets, musicians, athletes etc which are born and spread across races which only fit into what you say. Doctors and Engineers can be made not born. ***India has 200m middleclass? What’s the definition of Indian middleclass? “Own 1 mobile phone, a coloured TV and a 3-wheel (or more) vehicle” according to Indian govt. By the same definition, there are probably 200 million plus middle class in prosperous superpower Sub Sahara Africa as well…. Oh god that is not what I meant, I am talking about the middle class IQ level in India. ***As for your primary school example, in my primary school and high school, almost all top 5 were ethnic Chinese… your point is? That is ok anybody can say anything, I talked the truth - my experience , you your experience, this cannot be disputed so leave it.
***Many countries, China for example In I’Çhing, claim invented decimal system long before India. The fact that Indians have big mouthes compensates for their dismal brain power. Well, God is fair. Get proofs we will have a party with a Chinese girl Yes man statistics is only a tool not science, google about Godel incompleteness theorem even applicable to mathematics, then let alone statistics, if you have an average IQ then you will get it. —-The highest IQ ppl went to moon is true as always the notable scientists are in genius category, But mind their ancestors were living in a more muddy conditions in the Europe in the dark ages.,These people were ruled for more than 1000 years by Romans,due to low IQ ?.—- *** warm climate is one of the key reasons for jump-starting ancient agrarian economies. How early one had an agrarian economy has little to do with one’s IQ. In warm climates such as India and Sub-sahara Africa, you drop a seed carelessly today and forget it, it will grow into a fruit tree tomorrow. Yet both India and Africa have been major food importers and the UN food aid recipients for decades… No surprise there. This is not the answer, both Romans and Europeans lived in same conditions - that is why I said IQ has nothing to do with intelligence , your answer itself proofs it. —-West became smart after renaissance only, Why due to IQ mutation or the over night renaissance? .—— *** Black Death curled a large section of lower class + huge infusion of advanced Chinese tech through Chinese/Arab merchant fleet/s in Italy + competitive and free social/economical environments… , based on already high average IQ of indigenous Europeans. Ha ha ha-Europeans got it from Arabs who intern got it from Indians - You are making your own history Get some proofs for this we will have a second party with 2 Chinese girls man ***Yet with the same globalisation, and with more investments, worldwide large scale donations and the UN Food Aids for decades, India and Sub-Sahara Africa haven’t been lifted by the West even under democratic rules. How come the Chinese made it and India/Africa failed? Who said India failed ? India is the 3rd largest economy, mind India is only 1/3rd in size of China, don’t act dumb. What is the place of Africa in GDP do you know ? Sudan has the highest GDP in Africa which is in the 69th place, Why this idiotic comparison with Africa?.awake, I thought you are more smarter ? *** Einstein was drunk and tried to be PC. Chimps knew how to count bananas long before the Indians did, didn’t they? Einstein was drunk? that is how he got theory of relativity & special relativity ? wow see the Chinese brain!!!!!!!!!, you are becoming a chimp now, Yes except Indians everyone was only counting bananas like chimps, nobody could even imagine in millions and billions and in decimals and fractions, complex numbers etc and higher maths, Indian mathematicians made early contributions to the study of the concept of zero as a number,[5] negative numbers,[6] arithmetic, and algebra.[7] In addition, trigonometry[8] was further advanced in India, and, in particular, the modern definitions of sine and cosine, complex numbers, Linear equations were developed there.[9] These mathematical concepts were transmitted to the Middle East, China, and Europe[7] and led to further developments that now form the foundations of many areas of mathematics. not just counting - Google it ***A simple statistical system CAN predict complex star formations and the beyond in galaxies billions light years away, let alone the tiny brain of yours… Why a statistical system cant even predict a weather accurately? then let alone star formations Why a statistical system cant even predict a stock market ? Human behavioral patterns play a great role here - learn about “free will ” - Curious Indian has good points here. You still didn’t get it brain is the most complex organ than any star formation, because consciousness is expressed through brain, w/o consciousness nothing makes sense, that is what the tiny brain do mmmmh
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Posted by Astro on April 15, 2012, 02:04 PM | # @ Big mouth, Sorry the earlier Link didnt work. Your own Chinese TV, watch this please !!!!!!!!!!! 642
Posted by Astro on April 15, 2012, 02:51 PM | # @ Big mouth, there is a correction your quote***Yet with the same globalisation, and with more investments, worldwide large scale donations and the UN Food Aids for decades, India and Sub-Sahara Africa haven’t been lifted by the West even under democratic rules. How come the Chinese made it and India/Africa failed? Who said India failed ? India is the 3rd largest economy, mind India is only 1/3rd in size of China and hence, don’t act dumb. What is the place of Africa in GDP do you know ? Even south Africa is only in 25th place, Nigeria is 30th. Why this idiotic comparison with Africa?. I thought you are more smarter ? 643
Posted by indian strategy on April 15, 2012, 04:15 PM | # IQ is one of the many parameters affecting the average income of a country. The discussion here always seemed pointless to me as both countries are extremely poor and still be very poor decades later. What interests me is the guess of Kenichi Ohmae who guessed everything correctly up to now. The Japanese economy grew so fast in the 80’s that the rents of the real estates went up like a rocket. In 1989 the value of the real estates only in Tokyo was greater than all the real estates in America, that is to say if you sold only Tokyo you could purchase America. But 10 years later the value of the real estates was less than 20 percent. Ohmae guessed the exact value of the real estate market in 1999 only in 1987 realizing that though the value of the real estates was going up manipulatively the number of the unrented real estates too was increasing. The banks couldn’t see the relationship and continued mortgaging the estates. He knew the collapse of the real estate market and bank crisis in the 1990’s. Though being a nuclear engineer Ohmae has a far-seeing talent than any other economist. If he doesn’t see any chance for China in the future I would surely bet he should be right. ))) Though really it is not necessary I would like to learn what he thinks for India. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/opinion/why-do-chinese-read-fewer-books-57424.html Another is an article in the Wall Street Journal: ‘Will China Go to A Low IQ Society?’ author Zhang Tao http://chinese.wsj.com/gb/rssall.xml started the article quoting a paragraph from Japanese scholar Kenichi Ohmae’s “Low-IQ Society” published several years ago, expressing his concern on national quality. It states: “When traveling in China, I found that massage parlors are everywhere, but bookstores are hard to find. On an average, the Chinese people spend less than 15 minutes a day to read, only a small portion of the reading time of the Japanese people. China is a typical ‘low IQ Society,’ with no hope of becoming a developed country in the future.” 644
Posted by Curious Indian on April 18, 2012, 01:03 PM | # These days I remain a little busy, so I will not be able to reply very frequently. @indian strategy I am not sure what one or two of the studies you posted really prove. I think they don’t prove anything at all.
Now you can say that some particular kinds of tests like general knowledge or vocabulary don’t seem to rise much with time, but like I said, anyone with common sense can tell that these components are likely to have a large cultural bias as well as motivational bias. Quite clearly, an average American will not know many things that a typical Indian will know and vice versa. To bring back the witch doctor analogy of Feynman - suppose someone is ill and you try to treat that person. You say that I have tried honey, I have tried olive oil, I have tried carrots and I have spent lots of money and tried almost all herbs that I heard about. But this person despite showing some temporary improvements doesn’t seem to get cured fully - therefore this disease is incurable. The problem is- while you might draw such easy conclusions, someone with more advanced knowledge of medicine can actually prove you wrong by treating the patient with more advanced medicine like antibiotics. The same applies to these psychological studies of IQ.
And you are correct, children with half their brains removed can perform fairly normal in various tests. The brain is very plastic. 645
Posted by indian strategy on April 18, 2012, 04:50 PM | # Let me first explain something. I don’t have the time and patience to answer every question here but I try best as I can. No, there is no test in the history which raised the IQ more than 20 points. If you don’t trust the psychological studies then why do you trust the Flynn effect? There is the critic of the study you mentioned. The enrichment studies in America are the most expensive and trusted ones worldwide as they are funded by the government and are supervised from both sides (right handed racists and left handed liberals) and the liberals have responsibility to the government. A charlatan may easily come up with a claim that he managed to raise the IQ of the children with hard work by changing or teaching the type of questions etc (I think this is the way in India). No, he can’t do any trick in America because he is being watched by everyone, the racists and moreover the government supervisors. The people should be satisfied that their taxes are not wasted by the government. There are numerous studies and there is not even one study that could raise the IQ of the children only 5 points at age 15! Abecedarian was very close to it. The Head Start costed multibillionaire. The racists say ‘we watched this film before’ because every time the liberals come up with different new claims that they will try new methods. Anyway the IQ scores gained faded out but there were other social outcomes of these experiments for the society. Racism has different meanings. One can claim that IQ is genetic but IQ doesn’t need to be the most important genetic trait. The term inferior or superior depends on what is demanded by the environmental conditions and they can always change. And finally James Watson, the cofounder of DNA and winner if Nobel Prize is known for his views that the blacks are genetically less intelligent than the whites. I think he deserves more attention than unqualified idiot geneticists like Suzuki. http://www.neoeugenics.net/TRC.htm Flynn states this fact succinctly, “Moreover, data whose quality cannot be challenged have posed the same question. The Dutch military data, like those of Israel, Norway, and Belgium, are near exhaustive; but even better, Vroon compared a sample of the total population of Dutch examinees with the scores of their own fathers. There is simply no doubt that Dutch men in 1952 had a mean IQ of 79 when scored against 1982 norms. Has the average person in The Netherlands ever been near mental retardation? Does it make sense to assume that at one time almost 40% of Dutch men lacked the capacity to understand soccer, their most favored national sport?” 646
Posted by Astro on April 20, 2012, 09:58 PM | # @Curious Indian, I think this guy “Big mouth” seems to be a genuine one, that is why he did not get back to us with some kind of insane argument, like normally the racial morons do, that is why I was nice to him. Hope this answers your concern. Your argument on Flynn effect cannot be disputed sanely. Multiple studies have documented significant IQ gains over time even by changing the test patterns. Data from both developed and developing nations show IQ gains over time, most notably in culturally reduced tests like the Raven’s Progressive Matrices. The hypotheses that resonate best with the findings are those related to parents’ literacy, family structure, and children’s nutrition and health. This doesn’t mean that all ancients were dumb, the contributions in philosophy / science whether ancient or modern are all from a specific category of people ( genius ) spread across races/nations and nothing to do with an average high IQ of a particular nation or society rather than a trend prevailing in those societies in a particular period. EX:- Greeks were after philosophy, Romans were after Imperialism, Indians were after spirituality, Chinese were after martial arts, Europeans were after Science & Technology. Now everybody is after science and technology, these are the trends. Average IQ can be elevated with the early mentioned factors, which helps in building up better economies and nations for sure. I found an interesting paper below on this proving the Flynn effect substantiating your argument. Your points were very thoughtful and up to the mark. 647
Posted by Curious Indian on April 22, 2012, 10:17 AM | # @indian strategy I thought you will ask this. I indeed don’t take psychological studies too seriously. That includes everything, including the Flynn Effect. However, in logic, it is far more EASIER TO DISPROVE something than it is to prove something. In logic and mathematics, there is a term called “Proof by counterexample”. If you have a theory and you want to disprove something, it is enough to show a counter-example. What the Flynn Effect does is that it provides a counter example to the claim that “IQ cannot be raised”. Therefore, it is more credible than the heritability hypothesis. On the other hand, the claim that “iq cannot be raised” can only be disproved and not proved using counterexample. To prove such a claim one requires much more precise understanding of biology which may as well be far beyond modern science. When you try to prove something, the important thing is not how much money you pour, but what methods you use. I already tried to explain that in my last post using the medicine example. The methods used to prove that IQ cannot be raised look very dubious to me. James Watson never put it the way you put it here. The words he used were much more ambiguous. And while he might be a very important figure, he is only one old man- the majority of geneticists do not believe in genetic determinism. Too bad Crick is isn’t alive. I would be very interested in what he had to say. Can I ask you something? What makes you think that IQ is any different from chess? IQ tests ask a certain type of question that has to be answered in a certain manner. What is your argument for saying that it is not real IQ if you study for it? In chess, master players specifically train for gaining knowledge of patterns inside the chess board. Nobody says that it is unfair to win by studying. So why is it wrong to gain IQ by studying? And you said yourself that the rise of IQ as in flynn effect is not a real rise in intelligence. Then perhaps, IQ ITSELF IS NOT A REAL MEASURE OF INTELLIGENCE? You are again making a mistake - IQ and number of inventions - the quality of inventions - etc - these are all very different things.
And BTW, most of those test subjects in those USA based studies were Africans, not Indians. @Astro Indeed, the flynn effect has a tremendous presence, simply because it is able to provide a counterexample. If you ask me, I feel that IQ is not really that important, just like scores in schools are not that important. These are more like the side effects of the actual medicine and the not the medicine itself. Real intelligence or talent probably lies in emotional characteristics, knowledge of what’s important and the ability to pay attention. 648
Posted by indian strategy on April 23, 2012, 05:37 AM | # You are wrong. Watson put it exactly that way. Here are 2 of many links. http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/10/18/science.race/index.html As to Crick, the other co-founder of DNA and Nobel Prize winner, he was found to be guilty too as a supporter of Jensen and eugenics. Today we have his letters. http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/01/francis-crick-james-watsons-partner-was.html Also in Crick’s letters we learn about William Shockley, the inventor if transistor and Nobelist in physics that he too was a racist and eugenicist. By the way here I have to explain that both Shockley and Alvarez (2 Nobelists) missed Terman’s IQ test with a few points. They were not among the 1500 students (140 IQ or higher). One reason was Terman’s test included only verbal questions and no math questions and both were math prodigies and lacked verbal talent. Also as a child, could Dr. Alvarez have spoken English as a second language, and have faced special problems on an English-based IQ test. Second as an inventor Shockley had very high spatial talents which many mathematicians even don’t have. Shortly though he was very talented both in math and spatial the test measured his weakest talent, verbal. Anyway it is good to know that he believed in racial differences in IQ and was eugenicist. If we go that way I have to remind that the greatest inventor Nikola Tesla too was a supporter of eugenics if you read the book of Margaret Cheney I have no idea about if the majority (!) of the scientists don’t believe in the racial differences in IQ. First science doesn’t work by voting and secondly the founders of DNA and many other famous Nobelists or inventors-scientists did believe. That is enough for me. Who the hell is the idiot Suzuki? Your medical explanations don’t mean anything (that the brain is so plastic or what so ever). It is much easier to prove that IQ can’t be raised that it can be raised. If one can’t score better even if he took a long enrichment program and trained that is already over for any discussion. If one scores better in an IQ test some years later we have to be suspicious about if he learned the type of the questions. Then he wouldn’t be able to answer a different type of question and type of questions are limitless unlike the similarity of the positions in chess otherwise computers wouldn’t be able to beat the world champs. That is the difference. If one is trained only in verbal or math questions and if he can do better in spatial tests then I would be convinced that his IQ increased and due to the experiments in the US there is not an accomplishment like this. Furthermore even the biological correlates of g (reaction time, glucose rate in the brain) are not changing no matter how much the brain is plastic. If there is an increase in IQ there should be other correlates of it changing. As to Flynn effect it is possibly the misinterpretation of the different pattern of the questions in the tests. There is no necessity to make a big research but the questions about the Flynn effect are clear. If the Dutch men in 1952 had a mean IQ of 79 when scored against 1982 norms does it make sense to assume that at one time almost 40% of Dutch men lacked the capacity to understand soccer, their most favored national sport?” or the other question is Does that mean that during World War I about half of White Americans lacked the capacity to understand the basic rules of baseball?” The questions are so stupid that it is really not necessary what kind of a misinterpretation of pattern exists in the tests. It is true that most of the experiments were done with the blacks, whites and some adoption studies with the East Asians etc. I don’t know if there were any about the Indians but what would differ? Science is universal. Do you mean the others have solid brains but the Indians have plastic brains so that they could be taught better? Even your sentence contradicts you and has some real basis of racism. There are many other clues about the racial differences that the cold weather selected the best men hunters who thought ahead and used the tools better (verbal and spatial) so the bell curve of the men is much greater than the women in cold climates. The reason why the people of Inuit living in Siberia have 90 IQ is because of very low population they were not highly selected and mutated. In Africa there was no selection due to the cold weather and the women have larger bell curves. Only in cold regions the men of the smart races have larger curves than the women. And the Jews used Judaism as an evolutionary strategy (Kevin MacDonald) for eugenics. That is why they have better verbal and math scores. Due to the caste system some Indian races did the same thing. That is why they have similar genetic diseases with Ashkenazim. http://tanmoy.tripod.com/bengal/races.html Northwest India shares with west Asia and eastern Europe (and pockets in Africa and South East Asia) the maximum heterozygosity known among world populations, with means between 0.35 and 0.37; and the rest of India (and Europe) is only slightly lower: 0.33 to 0.35. This shows the vast amount of admixture that has gone on in these regions: to be contrasted against Australia which has a homozygosity of less than 0.25. However, there is significant admixture of the Central Asian populations, more in the North than the South and even less in the Northeast, and more among the upper castes than among the lower. 649
Posted by abcd on April 23, 2012, 10:24 AM | # There are 9 scientist of Indian origin who are in list of Philip Barker’s world’s top 1000 scientist/mathematician.Among these 3 had done their work in abroad and rest 6 had done their work in India.
from usa-1.Punjabi-H.KHorana Now Venkat Raman Ramakrishnan will be added on that list from abroad.
From china-Probably 6 ethnic Chinese(including,taiwan,hong kong) are in the list and all are Huns. 650
Posted by Jungle on April 25, 2012, 12:12 AM | # According to Law of the Jungle, a Mongol or Chinese have to be very clever or he will die soon. Story of Genghis Khan or Emperor Taizong explain the theory clearly. The core of chinese culture is “the Law of the Jungle” instead of Confucius. The Saint (Duke of Zhou) respected by Confucius had killed brother to be king. As we all know, Confucius’s culture is totally meaningless. 651
Posted by Harry on April 25, 2012, 09:21 AM | # It’s meaningless to show how successful and intelligent the top 10k are. The score mentioned is about the average or median of the whole population. Go back to love your underrepresented people, rather than tell everyone here you are a different type. Stop discrimination of the lower cast people, so your country can have a better score. 652
Posted by abcd on April 25, 2012, 11:28 AM | # @harry is your post a reply to my previous post? If that is the case then I can say not every whites are Newton,Galileo Or Da Vinchi. The people I have mentioned belongs to different ethnics.You have made a whole mess of caste and ethnicity.In india there are 28 states and 7 more central occupied region and there are many ethnic groups.But unfortunately apart from 3 indian states others have not contributed anything.The city calcutta has brought more laurels to the country than entire rest of the nation.Those bengali or Tamils are two different ethnic groups-not upper caste.Expand the horizon of your knowledge;otherwise don’t make stupid comments. 653
Posted by Curious Indian on April 26, 2012, 01:54 PM | # @indian strategy While replying to part2, I couldn’t help but agree with Astro that you seem to go in circles without making any real point. Part1 I was aware of Shockley’s view-point, I wasn’t really aware of Crick’s. However, I am always going to be skeptic about claims made about dead scientists. I am much more willing to listen to living scientists - those who are alive - and in their own words. And I am pretty sure that the vast majority of today’s geneticists do not believe in genetic determinism. Today, the much more accepted view point is that genes and environment interact - making “determinism” vitually meaningless As for dead scientists, I can easily produce a list of equally famous or possibly much more famous people who didn’t support racism. Here is one- Albert Einstein. I already showed you how Feynman doesn’t believe in the importance of talent. His views were largely echoed by many of the greatest intellects in mankind’s history. Darwin didn’t believe in Eugenics either. He opposed the view points of his cousin Francis Galton. Nobel Prize winner biologist John Cairns believes that evolution itself might be somewhat adaptive to the environmental pressure. So what does a few famous people having outdated and biased racial or genetic-determinism views mean? Nothing, I would imagine.
Part2 You completely missed my medicine example. I wasn’t just talking about brain-plasticity. I was talking about this- just because someone has tried hard or spent money and was unable to completely cure a disease doesn’t mean that the disease is incurable. Read it again if you didn’t understand.
And you completely ignored my question as to why it is OK to study in chess, but not study for IQ tests. Where is your evidence that those who score high in IQ have not gathered the relevant knowledge?
I think you are mistaken, there is no science here at all. The idea that Indians don’t have the capacity for spatial thinking is your hypothesis, your imagination. There is no evidence for it. Perhaps we are reversing the cause and effect here? Maybe the Chinese are good at pictorial stuff precisely because they have to remember so many letters at an early age?
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Posted by Curious Indian on April 26, 2012, 02:09 PM | # One correction: Cairns didn’t win the Nobel, my mistake, but he is/was a prominent biologist. 655
Posted by 1234 on April 27, 2012, 04:01 PM | # @Curious Indian I must point this out to you that Crick-Watson was largely a duo over-hyped by media. I have seen some laymen who actually “remember” that these two “discovered genetics”. Overall, I must say that you made some excellent points. 656
Posted by indian strategy on April 28, 2012, 10:27 AM | # Curious Indian, it seems that you confused everything and didn’t understand some points. 1 – IQ is genetic These 3 are all different things. The word ‘racist’ is used for many different meanings. Neither Rushton nor Watson calls themselves as racist but this doesn’t mean that they believe IQ is environmental and all people have the same IQ. It is meaningless to say one race is superior to another because no one knows which genes including IQ will be important to survive in the future. Some liberals claim IQ is environmental, some of them say it is genetic but not important and some say think that though it is genetic and all races have different IQs it is much better to act as if we are all equal (politically correctness). Some really believe that all races have different IQs but think that as it is against the human rights it is much better not to talk about it and do anything. Some liberals also think that creativity is more important. The word ‘racist’ can also be used for the opposite meaning for democrat. I don’t know why you gave Einstein as an example but I am pretty sure that he didn’t say anything like that IQ isn’t genetic or all races have the same IQ. As a Jew he certainly knew the dangers of racism and that the Jews suffered much from racism especially in Germany. For political reasons the people can easily be provoked for the destruction of another race like that the Germans did against the Jews in the past. It is a great danger but this has nothing to do with science. The Germans didn’t kill the Jews because they really thought that they were superior to them in any kind of measurement like IQ or creativity but just because they were provoked. I don’t support eugenics because it is against the human rights and secondly it is really not worth the price paid for it but it is important to understand how it is made to understand the mechanism of evolution. Surely there may be more talented scientists than the Nobel Prize winners. Nobel Prize doesn’t need to be a correct measure but it is ridiculous for one to claim that X had more knowledge. Who is the jury? Who decides? I didn’t imagine anything for the Indians. In the US they spent billions of dollars to improve the IQ of the children with various methods and all of them failed but there were other gains in personality so that they still continued the experiments. What do you mean by there were no Indians in the experiments? It is a ridiculous question. As to Flynn effect again, it is just an ILLUSION of scoring. There is no gain in IQ because of the questions I asked before. It is impossible and ridiculous to assume that the Dutch men had a mean IQ of 79 in 1952! They can’t be so stupid not to understand soccer. Surely it is always difficult to assume how much difficult a question is in an IQ test so that the psychologists adjusts the scoring. But is surely much more difficult to adjust the scoring of tests belonging to different periods and the so-called Flynn effect comedy is the result of it. I answered your question about chess before. Learning certain types of questions doesn’t make you smarter because you will fail to do a different type of question. I know that Mark Henshaw (.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)) wrote in his book that 3 different studies in Germany proved that that chess talent correlates close to zero unlike most people wouldn’t imagine. The mean IQ of German chess players with 2300 ELO rating was found to be only 110. That chess correlates to 0 doesn’t mean that we don’t use our brain while playing. It means chess and math require different cognitive abilities. The abilities just don’t overlap, that’s it. Chess is not of course a poker game, it requires thinking. These players must have spent thousands of hours studying, analyzing positions on chess board. That they just score 110 in an IQ test is the perfect proof that no matter how much you think you just learn, not improve your IQ as your other correlates of g remain the same. It is not important that chess correlates to zero because you use your brain to think. If thinking on different subjects has any effect that your brain might begin to work more efficiently (not just learning the type of questions but with a different reaction time or glucose rate) then you should be able to use it in IQ tests. You can spend thousands of hours studying chess positions and might be pleased to have the illusion (!) of having elevated your IQ but your study won’t help you to score better in math. There was a link about the 3 studies in Germany but it doesn’t work anymore. You should ask Mark about it. The Chinese or the other East Asians in the US also have very spatial scores when tested though they don’t learn their alphabet as they are born in the US. 657
Posted by indian strategy on April 28, 2012, 02:28 PM | # Once again, I just pointed out to the links that Watson said that the blacks were genetically less intelligent than the whites. You can find lots of similar links. But you still don’t say how he put (!) it if he didn’t do this way. Obviously he believed in the racial differences in IQ but doesn’t call himself as a racist. That is another story depending on what you want to do with it. It is also ridiculous of you showing Einstein as a liberal. He never said that he didn’t believe in the racial differences in IQ. He was just against racial enmity. It is also ridiculous of you saying that the IQ scores in the experiments faded out because they lost their personal interests. Then if they didn’t fade out the racists could also say that the students gained some personal interests, but not IQ! This is not an answer. 658
Posted by curious Indian on April 28, 2012, 03:12 PM | # @ strategy
Einstein not only fought racism with his political power, his formula for success was this He said ” I don’t have much talent or intelligence, I just have a tremendous amount of curiosity” Also remember what Feynman was talking about :”...there is no miracle people… It’s just that they get interested in these things and study hard ...”. So, Feynman too gives greater importance to emotional factors like personal interests. Similar things have been said by Grothendieck(hard work and persistence) and many others. For example, Newton gave importance to the quality of persistence and curiosity - again two emotional attributes, rather than intelligence. one of the greatest inventors of all time is J.C.Bose, even though he never gets the recognition he deserves in the west partly because he never cared about filing patents - saying knowledge shouldn’t be bought with money.His view was ,” It is the invention which is of importance for the mankind, not the inventor”. In truth , he invented a lot of the most important things - from radio to semiconductor solid-state diodes to the idea of P-N junction to crescograph, from Resonant Cardiograph, Galena detector for detecting infrared waves to Horn aerial, which is the ancestor of the modern-day parabolic dish aerials to polarizer rotators, diffraction grating device to measure the wave length of radiowaves to the fact that plants have living tissues very similar to animals; and many more. But in most of the cases, shamefully western scientists took the credit because in the west you only invent if you have the patent. But now IEEE has accepted each of his inventions. And a lot of his discoveries were made with cheaply manufactured materials or even completely natural materials.
Sorry, but you are the one who is confused. Astro already stopped replying to you because you simply ignore people’s points.
Wait , are you saying that Flynn effect itself is false? Sorry, but the Flynn Effect is a universally accepted phenomenon and is still observed all over the world, especially in developing countries. These are real data. Even herediterians admit this much. And it is Rushton and Lynn whose sources have been questioned, not the other way around. Even Suzuki at one point accused Rushton of having unscientific data. Cyril Burt is universally known to have falsified data. Here is your assumption- A 79 IQ can’t understand football. The only thing it tells is that probably IQ is not a real measure of Intelligence. This is what I have been trying to tell for so long. This is what the Flynn effect proves.
Firstly, IT IS A LIE! The only question that remained was whether these gains were permanent but there is no reason to believe that it isn’t so. IQ is a relative measure. If you don’t get stimulation when others are getting, it is bound to get down - that’s natural. Secondly, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Just because it didn’t work so far(which isn’t true), doesn’t mean that it can’t. And the existence of counter-examples prove that IQ can rise.
No you haven’t answered my question. You make it sound like if you have higher IQ you can do anything better. In fact, having high IQ might simply mean knowledge of a wide variety of topics. So, if that is the case, those who have higher IQ have simply studied a wide variety of topics. And there is simply no way that you can provide evidence that a high IQ person hasn’t studied a wide range of topics.
See, you just proved my point. IQ is totally not needed to gain a high ELO.
LOL! What makes you think that I would choose IQ over chess ELO? If I can become a grandmaster, I would take that anyday over somethinng as useless as IQ. Chess does increase your IQ, many studies show that. But the gain is only a small amount. In general higher IQ requires knowing a large range of topics. Sorry, but I prefer master of some and jack of none.
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Posted by Curious Indian on April 28, 2012, 03:56 PM | # @1234 For example, it is probably incorrect to say that the wright brothers invented the aeroplane. The basic designs were already there. They just got it to a satisfactory level. Civilizations are built upon knowledge and attitude. IQ is largely irrelevant for the progress of a civilization. But some people fail to understand this. Just look at Europe before and after reneissance. In fact, many studies suggest that chimps may have as much spatial or mechanical intelligence as us. But what chimps usually don’t do, but humans do is to ask the question - why?? But certainly, any human can learn to ask it? 660
Posted by communism rules! on April 29, 2012, 12:20 AM | # In 1978 India’s nominal per capita GDP $200, China’s $150, yes back then india was a little bit richer than China. For most part of the last 100 years india was little bit richer than China. Today india is $1060, and China $3800. India has changed only a little. But China for some odd reasons has completely Changed only in the last 30 years. Communism > Democracy. 661
Posted by indian strategy on April 29, 2012, 01:50 AM | # Just name one of those studies funded by the government which is said to have elevated the IQ of the children if you are so sure of yourself. I asked you how do you know that those who are taking the tests - even 6 year olds - that they somehow weren’t exposed to the necessary stimulation and knowledge to take these tests better. And the answer is that you simply can’t provide an evidence for that. Your question is so ridiculous. These experiments are made with thousands of children. After every failure will you keep on finding an excuse that all of these children were not enough stimulated? You couldn’t understand the very simple example I gave about chess. You are not even close to it! If chess increases IQ like you claim then what do you think the mean IQ of the German chess players was before they spend thousands of hours studying chess? Do you mean they were just 80 IQ and after the study they gained 30 points? Or were they just 70 IQ and gained 40 points? If so then if you take a group of people with just 70 IQ and train them will you still find an excuse that they were not stimulated enough (!) after the failure? What do you think they were in the beginning? Not every psychologist accepts the so-called Flynn effect. There may be possible errors while measuring IQ. This doesn’t mean that IQ is changed with the environment. Identical twins can score differently in various tests. In a test one can score higher but in another test the other can due to excitement. This is due to the error. It doesn’t mean that one or the other has gained anything about IQ. I know Venter’s explanations but I can’t see any correlation with the number of the genes and the genetic determinism. Humans have 30000 genes. If we had 1 million genes would it be the proof (!) that genes have a higher effect? LOL. It is rather like the effect of a melody and the number (!) of the musical notes the melody has. Big Mouth stopped replying to both of you because he obviously realized you both weren’t worth losing time with. Maybe I am not as smart as him.))) 662
Posted by Curious Indian on April 29, 2012, 08:28 AM | # @strategy Basically your argument amounts to - for each of our explanations there is a counter explanation, so tell us how do we prove that IQ is genetic! And the simple answer is - you can’t , not with our current knowledge of biology. And in fact, all evidence seems to suggest that the environment does play a big role in IQ. And my point was never that there is no genetic basis for intelligence, what I said was that there ought to be a large environmental basis for intelligence .
Who said there are 30-40 point increases? I said myself that IQ gain from chess is relatively small. May be 5-10 points on average if played seriously for several years. And the increase will vary from individual to individual based on various factors. And in fact, the very idea behind high IQ is that you have to know lots of different kinds of topics or patterns. In general people with greater urge to learn will learn more topics and patterns. However, if you simply put someone in an education program and stimulate them , they can still improve. May be the reason why sometimes IQ starts to fade after the education program stops is because while their knowledge has increased due to the courses, but their interest really hasn’t? In fact, that may be due to many different reasons. For example, a black person might respond emotionally better to a black teacher, but there simply aren’t that many good black teachers!
Practically everyone accepts the Flynn effect. The main difference lies in how different people try to explain it. Far more people dispute Rushton’s data. An IQ difference of 20 points , like observed in some identical twin cases, can’t be just because of excitement error. (And BTW, identical twins share more than just genes.)
As for you wanting studies, here they are: As for you wanting studies 1>Music training increases IQ: 2>http://www.raisesmartkid.com/all-ages/1-articles/16-the-effect-of-music-on-childrens-intelligence 3>http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun06/iq.aspx 3>Education increases IQ: Robert Sternberg:“these results—that schooling has a substantial effect on IQ—replicate those of other, perhaps not quite as well-controlled, studies.I am aware of no serious studies that show the opposite result.” 4>The Head Start program in the United States is a federally funded preschool program for children from low income families. Head Start provides children with activities that might enhance cognitive development, including reading books, learning the alphabet and numbers, learning the names of colors, drawing, and other activities. These programs often have large initial effects on IQ test results and children who participate gain as much as 15 IQ points compared to control groups of similar children not in the program. The educational correlation for IQtest results continues into adulthood, with college graduates typically scoring higher than non college graduates. A substantial body of research establishes that preschool education can improve the learning and development of young children. Multiple meta-analyses conducted over the past 25 years have found preschool education to produce an average immediate effect of about half (0.50) a standard deviation oncognitive development. This is the equivalent of 7 or 8 points on an IQ test, or a ascent from the 30th to the 50th percentile on test scores. 5>Chess increases IQ: Chess has even been shown to raise students’ overall IQ scores. Using the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children a Venezuelan study of over 4,000 second grade students found a significant increase in most students’ IQ scores after only 4.5 months of systematically studying chess. This occurred across all socio-economic groups and for both males and females. The Venezuelan government was so impressed that all Venezuelan schools introduced chess lessons starting in 1988-89 (summarised in Ferguson 1995, p. 8). 6>One study, produced in 1975, took place in Belgium, where Christiaen found a chess-playing experimental group of 20 fifth graders experienced a statistically significant gain in cognitive development (IQ) over a control group, using Piaget’s tests for cognitive development (Ferguson, 1995).
8>Eric Turkheimer of the University of Virginia has conducted further research demonstrating that in poor and chaotic households, I.Q. is minimally the result of genetics — because everybody is held back.
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/19/6829.full It must be noted that working memory is a much better predictor of academic success than IQ. And studies suggest that it can be trained like muscles. 10>Here is more on working memory 11>more:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278262612000309 12>Here is one more on intelligence and brain-training. http://www.naturalnews.com/034029_intelligence_brain_exercise.html 13> 14> Mother’s milk enhances IQ.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7385097.stm 15> Here is an adoption study claiming IQ increases when adopted in better families: 16> And probably the simplest denial of genetic determinism is the Flynn effect. There is a tremendous amount of data to support. And Flynn effect is larger in less developed countries: Some of the above were government funded, but I don’t know why it should matter. Rushton is funded by an organization that supports eugenics. These are certainly more credible than his data. He and Lynn used data from mental treatment wards to determine IQ of aborigines.
663
Posted by Curious Indian on April 29, 2012, 09:10 AM | # (P.S) Looking at how poor many Indians are - 8> coupled with 16> easily solves most of the the mystery of Indian IQ. 664
Posted by indian strategy on April 29, 2012, 03:38 PM | # ——-Head Start provides children with activities that might enhance cognitive development, including reading books, learning the alphabet and numbers, learning the names of colors, drawing, and other activities. These programs often have large initial effects on IQ test results and children who participate gain as much as 15 IQ points compared to control groups of similar children not in the program. The educational correlation for IQ test results continues into adulthood, with college graduates typically scoring higher than non college graduates. I have asked you to name studies especially funded by the US government, not to mention ones in Venezuela or Zaire. About the Head start you are obviously lying like a typical Indian that even at adulthood the ones who took the program still scored 15 points higher. No, this is a big LIE. Like that you can find limitless sources about Head Start here is one below saying that at a cost of 4000 $ per child a year in 1993 the program had more than 7 million children and the scores faded out 3-4 years later. First these are not like the studies you mention with no cost at all (like playing chess or guitar in 3rd world countries) but the most respected ones, not only in the US but worldwide. You still can ask if these children were stimulated enough! The study comprises more than 7 million children, not just 20-30 people. Though the Abecedarian was a very small program with only 111 black children it was the most expensive and successful program with only 4.6 points of gain at age 15. I don’t remember how much it was for the Head Start but obviously not 15 points at adulthood as you lie. In October 1993, Nature magazine published an article by Frances Rauscher, Gordon Shaw, and Katherine Ky about their study in which subjects who listened to 10 minutes of a Mozart sonata prior to taking IQ tests added 9 points to their IQ scores. This research spawned a veritable industry of Mozart products for infants and toddlers (even though the research was performed on college students). Most famous was the Disney Baby Einstein products. http://www.neoeugenics.net/bgpe.htm Posthuma, Geus & Boomsma note that, “The large genetic contribution to individual differences in cognitive abilities is well established. From childhood to early adulthood, the relative impact of genetic factors on cognitive abilities increases and becomes even higher from middle adulthood to late adulthood. Data from four large twin studies from the Dutch Twin Registry, which are partly longitudinal and partly cross-sectional, reflect this increasing heritability of cognitive abilities with age. Shared environmental influences play a role only before adolescence and are of relatively low importance between ages 7 and 16. This pattern of the relative impact of genetic and environmental influences on cognitive abilities corresponds to that found in many other countries. Figure 9.1 “In spite of the overwhelming evidence for the existence of ‘genes for cognition,’ actual identification of such genes is limited to neurological mutations with rather severe cognitive effects (e.g., Pick’s disease, X-linked mental retardation, and Huntington’s disease), as reviewed by Flint. Like the many rare diseases and disorders listed in online Mendelian Inheritance in Man, these genetic defects of cognition are largely Mendelian in nature. True polygenes that influence the normal range of cognitive ability have yet to be identified. One route to finding these genes is a better appreciation of individual differences in the anatomy and function of the main organ of information processing, the brain.” 665
Posted by 1234 on April 30, 2012, 03:26 PM | # @Curious Indian Ho Ho! I suggest you just ignore this idiot strategy.
I think you are spot on here. So testing bias combined with very low heritability of IQ among poor people might very well explain everything. 666
Posted by Curious Indian on May 01, 2012, 10:53 AM | # @1234
Indeed, may be I should just ignore him.
“In 1955, Norway began extending compulsory middle school education by two years. Galloway and her colleague Christian Brinch, from the department of economics at the University of Oslo, analyzed how this additional schooling might affect IQ. Using data on men born between 1950 and 1958, the researchers looked at the level of schooling by age 30. They also looked at IQ scores of the men when they were 19.” The education increased in Norway was compulsory for men and the IQ was tested at 19 years of age - an age at which it is considered fairly stable. It pretty much negates any counter point that strategy said. “By looking at a reform which increased mandatory schooling and prevented people from dropping out of school after the 7th grade, it is fairly certain that the effects seen are an effect of schooling on IQ, not vice versa, she explained.” Second, the head first study was interesting one because they did produce an initial increase of about 10-12 IQ points. Even if temporary, the IQ did increase. Why? And the long term effects were not zero. There was a very small but positive IQ gain. I have also already mentioned possible reasons for why it might be failing. Barnett, Young, and Schweinhart(1998), used causal modeling to show that long-term effects of early childhood education are built upon short-term effects. The rest of strategy’s post is just garbage. He refers to websites like “neo-eugenics.com” disregarding studies published well-established journals, just what you said. One of the main problems with him is that he is simply unable to understand the concept that Another very important thing he fails to understand is that I asked him lots of things. He just ignored whatever he wasn’t able to answer. Instead his entire strength of argument rests upon a few study of “averages” that he clings on to like fevi-quick . BTW, here is evidence that Asian kids’ reading system may improve their IQ Here is another nice article that states that the assertion that IQ is largely unchangeable is firmly contradicted by empirical findings from a number of sources.
Thank you, and I think that is probably the case. In fact, I can go on forever about how many things can improve the IQ. Indeed there are more studies that show that neurofeedback, gaming, tetris or even internet usage can improve IQ. Other studies show: Meditation can increase grey matter, which has been linked to intelligence. Moreover, Flynn says that the only thing that blacks have obained in the last few decades is slightly better education. Yet, that was enough for them close the IQ gap with whites by 5 points. 667
Posted by indian strategy on May 01, 2012, 11:09 AM | # ABCD you had better stop flattering your fellow curious Indian. First he lied about the Head Start Program like that he lied before about Watson and Einstein. Second what well published articles are you talking about? Here are 3 of the links he sent. The first 2 links are about http://www.pnas.org which needs to deserve attention. Just read what it says there. You really don’t understand anything, do you? The links your fellow sent are about the training of the children. You can change the IQ of the children much easier as they are children because the development of the brain hasn’t stopped yet but at adulthood when the brain finishes its development the genetic effect wins. No matter whatever you do in the past at adulthood the GAME IS OVER in the end! Even the 2 links below which your fellow has sent approves what I say, not him. As to the 3rd link below it was published as news in Telegraph which doesn’t deserve any attention. It wasn’t published in a scientific issue. What is ridiculous in the news is that the so-called music training has (!) the SAME effect on both children and adults. All the other links your fellow sent are about the children, not adults. One should ask what happened to those kids in Venezuela when they became adults. German chess players with 2300 ELO scored just 110. Also your IQ score can change after eating chocolate as well as your other correlates of g like reaction time and glucose rate. Unfortunately this ends after several hours. You can publish an article in a magazine issue that chocolate improves IQ. This will be by no means different than those stupid studies that 10 minutes of listening to Mozart improves your IQ. 668
Posted by Curious Indian on May 01, 2012, 12:52 PM | # No my dear strategy, the study subjects in pnas working memory study were young adults(university students). Your comprehension skills are poor. There were a few follow up studies in various countries on various age groups including children. Working memory training has yielded positive effects each time. The positive effects are clearly visible even after 4 months. This reminds you of muscle training rather than drugs. Of course, there are drugs too that can increase your IQ temporarily- but I didn’t mention them because these drugs only work for a few days at best. I am well aware of mozart effect and have always been skeptical about it. That is why I never mentioned it. Don’t put words into other people’s mouth. And in every adoption study where IQ dropped with time, so did the environmental and motivational factors. And even after the drop, there is a positive gain as adults. 669
Posted by 1234 on May 02, 2012, 02:11 PM | # @Curious Indian Yes, I agree with you. I saw that Flynn video. He says that developing countries are catching up. That is interesting! Since you mentioned gaming, I found this video: 670
Posted by indian strategy on May 03, 2012, 01:19 PM | # Curious Indian either you have terrible reading comprehension skills or you are a perfect liar. You need to check what is written there. Nowhere in the text has it said they were university students. They were lastly tested when their mean age was 13.6 years. Certainly one can’t apply to a university when he is 13 or 14 years old. Secondly at the end of the conclusion there is a confession that there is no data to date indicating that adopted IQ From a methodological point of view, the IQ gain cannot be Finally, we have no data to date indicating that adopted 671
Posted by Curious Indian on May 04, 2012, 06:28 AM | # @1234 Indeed, it’s very likely that gaming contributed at least partially to the Flynn effect. Unfortunately, there aren’t too many Ananth Pais in India who try to integrate gaming with education. There have been some efforts, but very very shallow ones. Sougata Mitra’s earlier work hole in the wall was also partial success But we need something more well planned and organized than these methods. @indian strategy Wow! I was talking about the working memory training article and I think I made that clear. I am not even that much interested in adoption studies as they tend to be more prone to errors. “Participants and Procedure. For this study, we conducted four individual experiments involving a total of 70 healthy young participants (36 female; mean age, 25.6 years of age; SD, 3.3) recruited from the University of Bern community, “
Generally, the IQ of a person is considered fairly stable among most people after age 13. (If the IQ drops or increases much, it can only be environmental influence. ) The writers themselves stated that fact - “longitudinal studies have shown very few IQ changes after adolescence”. So IQ at age 13.6 is fairly likely to be very close to adult IQ.
Now this is somewhat misleading because: And lastly, I have never said that genes do not play any role. Rather, what I have been telling is that genes cannot “determine” anything by itself as genes and environment interact. 672
Posted by Curious Indian on May 04, 2012, 07:07 AM | # Anyway, I don’t have much time nowadays, except may be on Sundays, and I don’t want to waste my Sundays on useless stuff like these with someone as biased as strategy. So, I will take 1234’s advice and stop. So this is probably my last post. In case there was ever any misunderstanding - I don’t have anything against anyone - I have respect for the whites, the chinese, the other east- asians, the jews or any other group I left out - I just wanted this stupid racism to stop , but I am too powerless, I guess. 673
Posted by 1234 on May 05, 2012, 10:58 AM | # @Curious Indian To be honest, I just wanted you to ignore him, but I guess I can’t blame you if you don’t have the time. I agree with you completely again - indeed, the Flynn Effect seems to be an increase of fluid g and abstract thinking. The brain is plastic and environment plays a strong role. Personally, apart from agreeing with you about the environmental influence, I also think that IQ is overrated. There are other kinds of intelligence which are possibly more important. Anyway, I was really inspired by that video of Sugata Mitra. Extremely interesting! I ended up watching a lot of Sugata Mitra videos - his other talks in various places. I can see potential in his method. 674
Posted by indian strategy on May 07, 2012, 04:03 PM | # You misunderstood what he says. There is no test which has a g loading of 1. The IQ test which has the highest g loading is said to be the best predictor of the success in the other tests. He says that if we could measure the g perfectly (we can’t) there would be no rise in g. That we can’t measure g perfectly doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Suppose there are 5 types of tests, A, B, C, D and E. If A has the highest g loading and if you increase it by practice and training you will also change the correlations (unless if you also can increase the scores of the other tests) and the test will no longer have the same predictive value for the other tests and it will have a lower g loading. Generally vocabulary is said to have the highest g loading. Surely no one takes the dictionary and memorize it. It is useless. But if everyone did it the g loadedness of vocabulary would decrease. So you see, the concept of g has its insurance in itself. No IQ test can measure g, the real intelligence. .................................................. Low IQ / High IQ Fluid Intelligence (gf)..........................89….. .80 675
Posted by rohit on May 14, 2012, 10:12 PM | # Anyone who has been to India will immediate notice that the whole country smells of raw feces. Open defecation is ubiquitous. The 81 probably explains for much of the phenomenon. 676
Posted by Justus of Tiberias on May 15, 2012, 02:33 AM | #
Following World War II the Communist Party in the People’s Republic of China abolished most forms of private property and eliminated the rule of law. Competitive markets were outlawed and without the profit incentive, entrepreneurial activity ground to a halt. Through the 1950s and 1960s the standard of living for the average Chinese citizen actually fell to levels below those that existed during the Ming Dynasty and programs such as the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward destroyed human and physical capital throughout the country. After Mao Zedong’s death things began to change for China. Observing the growing prosperity of ethnic Chinese residing in the Pacific Rim outside China, Deng Xiaoping rightly concluded that if Chinese could create wealth outside China they could create it within China. Deng chose to adopt policies of wealth instead of policies of poverty and began a slow, methodical process of introducing the institutions of capitalism into Chinese society. Following World War II, North and South Korea, as we know them today, were a single country with a By contrast over a period of fifty short years the south has become one of the Tigers of Asia with high 677
Posted by indian strategy on May 20, 2012, 05:17 PM | # We don’t have a test which has a g loading of 1 (=100 %). But the author says that as long as the test gets a higher g loading the score gains diminish. If test A has a g loading of 60 % and test B has a g loading of 80 and if there are 4 points of gain in test A and 2 points of gain in test B then it means there will be ZERO GAIN in an imaginary test which has a g loading of 100 %. Surely there is no test like this but the trend of these tests from low g to high g proves it. We really have no evidence that any subset of IQ test is less important than g but the concept of g through intercorrelations is important for proving that score gains in any test isn’t generalized to all kinds of tests because then otherwise g would be improved. The word ‘liberal’ is used for different meanings. It is the opposite synonym for both ‘racist’, ‘conservative’ and ‘Republican’. I myself believe in the racial differences in IQ and other personal traits but support ‘open trade’ and ‘freedom of thought’ as a liberal. Wealth is more dependent on trade than racial differences. Suppose that one is both a good tailor and a good doctor and he can work mostly 8 hours a day. How many hours should he work as a doctor and a tailor? Surely as a doctor he can earn much more so he should work 8 hours as a doctor and give clothes to a tailor. The same idea goes true for the countries. If France produces both wine and textile much better than the other countries and if produces wine better than textile comparatively then France should export only wine and import textile. The main principal of comparative advantage theory in international trade is clear: just focus and select the most profitable areas and sacrifice everything else. This is necessary for the reallocation of resources. While France is doing this (exporting only wine and importing textile) its foreign trade volume (import plus export of the goods & services) gets bigger. So trade volume of a country is a very good economic indicator of how efficiently the resources in the country are allocated. There are many indicators in http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/eco-economy&all=1 The m.ost important one is If 2 countries have the same population approximately and if one has a much bigger trade volume than the other then it means it is using a better reallocation of resources. How does the population affect? As the population gets higher the importance of the trade volume gets lower as there is also the trade within the country. For example UK has 56 % volume of its GDP and France has 53 %. If they get unified as one country (meaning that the population gets higher) their export and import with each other need to be excluded and subtracted from the new item. So while doing a fair measure the population needs to be paid attention. The least crowded countries should be at the top. Anyway I am skeptic about the population of India. Is it really lower than China or about 1.6 billion like some people claim so? If it is 1.2 billion (official) then India is at the 167th place while China is the 125th. If China is more crowded then it means it is using its resources more efficiently. It means India doesn’t use its potential efficiently. I think the best way of supporting creativity is supporting arts. In order to benefit more from trade volume the governments should support arts, not sports because there are some very important relationships between the personality traits of liberalism and arts. < .001), indicating that higher scores on Conscientiousness were again associated with increased conservatism http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/sbp/sbp/1974/00000002/00000001/art00008 Next entry: Will it be Moslems for Jews and Ukraine for Sudetenland? Previous entry: A new blog for the new year |
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Maybe, years ago, Indians used to say, “our” mathematics! Or maybe not.
Check out what CERN is all about. Thanks to those guys for the internet. We are grateful and we will happily use it, irrespective of some lurkers objections.
). But the whites didn’t restrain themselves while they were here. According to wikipedia, “Inter-ethnic marriages between European men and Indian women were very common during colonial times. According to the historian William Dalrymple, about one in three European men (mostly British, as well as Portuguese, French, Dutch, and to a lesser extent Swedes and Danes) had Indian wives in colonial India”. The descandant community is around 600,000 strong today, and, nobody here talks about ‘repatriating’ them. They are quite proud of their heritage (as all indians, regardless of their colour are) and are doing very well. What do the ‘honourable’ whites here have to say about that?
Posted by razib on January 01, 2005, 11:36 PM | #
jon,
one should focus on the populations of trinidad, guyana, mauritius and fiji for a representative of south asian IQ outside of south asian poverty, as these populations are drawn from the peasants of northern india by an large (rather than elites). what little i know suggests there is some improvement, but still well below the white median.