Peer Pressure

Posted by James Bowery on May 04, 2007, 11:51 PM | #

It would be interesting to see how the outcome is affected by the imposition of the appearance of altruistic punishment of the truth speakers.

Posted by onetwothree on May 05, 2007, 12:42 AM | #

That’s the “12 angry men” effect.

Anyway, it represents fairly sound instinctive math skills on the part of people to wait for that one other person before acting. If you see a string of numbers:

645624726473568358

...it is meaningless. When you see it just one more time:

645624726473568358

...it part of a clear pattern, even with a sample size of two.

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on May 05, 2007, 12:03 PM | #

Yes, I might’ve added that I think herdthink is rational, or at least rational hardwiring.

Posted by second class citizen on May 05, 2007, 01:57 PM | #

This is not unlike the typical lecture hall phenomenon where the professor explains something poorly, no one is able to follow but there is only one person courageous enough to ask what he’s talking about. The lecture hall in general is a great tool in the indoctrination of our people for that very reason.

Take a herd of youths who are new to a particular subject. Put them in front of a professor who knows the subject in and out, and also is in charge of whether they make good on their investment in university education by receiving a passing grade. The professor is then in an excellent position to feed lies and half truths to the intelligentsia of our people.

If someone questions, the professor can usually martial enough evidence to convince with half truths. If someone actually knows the material to win a debate with the professor, that person will be told to see him after class. If he still doesn’t shut up, he will most likely fail. This is much like typical Semitic debating style - if at first you don’t win with half truths, continue with ad hom, strawmen, threats, censorship, intimidation and violence. I suspect it’s something genetically hardwired, but it’s so common it almost seems like they have the verbal equivalent of an LEO’s escalation protocol.

The media educational complex has done a rather good job at fooling our people that there is no dissent. Our minds are mostly made for a village type environment with a limited number of people whom we personally interact with. Television co-opts this by putting artificial interactions in front of us that most of us are fooled by and make a cumulative impact on our thinking. We aren’t out in clubs, talking to guests, with our families, in local meetings. We are instead watching falsified, more vibrant interaction.

There is dissent, however, it is always the leftist who is portrayed as dissenting, fighting against the system against all odds. This is in spite of the fact that they actually control the system.

The internet is different. There are a few lone voices out there on our side, and they appear to be more numerous than say, 5 years ago. There are a lot of Zionists out there running defense, it’s interesting watching them work. Often they will use sock puppets to create a straw man in the form of another forum poster, who they then demolish or howl down.

I think part of the problem we have is that we don’t own English any more. It is a universal language. Thus it is almost certain that from now on, anti-White voices will be dominant online (especially since it is usually the non-White intelligentsia who learn English first, and non-Arab Semites outnumber Whites above a certain IQ point anyway). This means that a lot of the anti-White language idioms* common place now will remain that way, simply because the mass of non-White English speakers are happy that the whipping boy is anyone but them. It is also impossible to sort out who is actually our extended kin because lying is so easy (through both personal claims and avatars).

It is rather sad that we can’t talk privately in the language of our birthright any more, and a shame that our ancestors ever taught our tongue to foreigners. I suspect that the reason why no one speaks Latin any more is because long ago Latin became a liability rather than an asset to the Romans. We will likely need a new language of our own. I also suspect that when Israel was created they chose Hebrew as the national language simply because it afforded another layer of opacity, Yiddish being too similar to German.

The other problem is mean IQ. Raw IQ is needed to be able to think critically, to infer, to recognize patterns (e.g. media ownership, the overall message, qui bono), and no amount of rote learning can ever replace it.

These problems are non-trivial and require a lot of hard work. Even if a political solution is workable (and I suspect that the next major depression will work major miracles for racial nationalist parties of every description) there are still the same systemic flaws. We look to a state savior to do the work that our own families should be doing. If a Nick Griffin comes to power and all the non-British are ousted, what’s going to stop the complacency that will inevitably set in? What is going to stop a remnant rising to power or even altering a school curriculum with a message that “

is British Nationalism too!”?

*Such idioms are the idea that any overly strict person is a “nazi” (e.g. grammar nazi), or examples of a priori evil e.g. KKK, White Supremacists, Apartheid, Black Slavery - ignoring the fact that these are in fact completely arbitrary. These evils could be the JDL, Chinese Supremacists, Israeli Apartheid towards Palestinians, White Slavery by Ottoman Turks. But they aren’t.

Posted by a Finn on May 05, 2007, 06:04 PM | #

Good post from Igorevich and Second class citizen. May I add afterwards that I liked the post of genetic testing methods for ethnic groups and it’s knowledgeable answers from awhile ago (Bowery and Gnxp stinks?). Important work that doesn’t get enough praise, because too few people understands it technically and it’s importance in general.

Second class citizen: “I think part of the problem we have is that we don’t own English any more. It is a universal language. Thus it is almost certain that from now on, anti-White voices will be dominant online (especially since it is usually the non-White intelligentsia who learn English first, and non-Arab Semites outnumber Whites above a certain IQ point anyway). This means that a lot of the anti-White language idioms* common place now will remain that way, simply because the mass of non-White English speakers are happy that the whipping boy is anyone but them. It is also impossible to sort out who is actually our extended kin because lying is so easy (through both personal claims and avatars).”

Counterpoints: Many Europeans can write English, so we can talk to each other with this language. I probably can write enough correctly, so that readers understand me. I just put words after another. Most of the e.g Jamaicans online are probably not here anyway.

About lying: I sort out posters by their posts’ usefulness and logic. I gather everything that is useful and logical. People who are liers or just plain stupid end up usually in the same category. If lier is crafty and writes useful things mixed with detrimental, I take the useful and discard the detrimental. And stay at various degrees suspicious. Especially if the detrimental things has any intentionality in them (i.e. they are not merely mistakes or lack of understanding). % Also, if writer makes claims, and you are suspicious, you can make questions that can reveal him. I have revealed fake doctors, physicists etc. with my questions. Also you can ask about the area he is living in etc. But even if he can answer right, only things that really matters concerning this issue, is what was before the % -sign in this answer. So they suspicious, if necessary, even if the answers were right.

With these methods automatical for me, I haven’t had to wonder too much about lying.

Posted by a Finn on May 05, 2007, 06:42 PM | #

Addition: I predict that jews’ average IQ will fall in the future, if every factor in the studies is examined carefully. Was the study made in private school that has expensive fees. Was it school for the jewish elites? Was the number and quality of participants in the study representative of the jews as whole? Was the special jewish studying methods and quantity effective like described by physicist Richard Feynmann in one of his book, and Dennis Praeger and Joseph Telushkin in ´Why the jews?´ Etc. High it stays, but there has been exaggerated claims.

Could we improve our results in IQ tests with training? Could we e.g improve our mathematics skills combining visualizing methods to calculation of numbers, like the japanese? Could we use some of the jewish methods? Etc.

http:/www.originaldissent.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8509.html

Posted by a Finn on May 05, 2007, 07:21 PM | #

Sorry for the non -functioning link. The text have been removed. Here is the text that was there:

        Jewish IQ Revised Downward
        Author: Richard Lynn
    Filed: 4/2/2003, 7:14:31 PM
    Source: Personality and Individual Differences
    doi:10.1016/S0191-8869(03)00079-5

    Received 18 March 2002; revised 15 May 2002; accepted 27 January 2003. ;
    Available online 26 March 2003

    Abstract

    This paper provides new data on the theory that Jews have a higher average level of verbal intelligence than non-Jewish whites. The theory is considered by examining the vocabulary scores of Jews, non-Jewish whites, blacks and others obtained in the American General Social Surveys carried out by the National Opinion Research Centre in the years 1990–1996. Vocabulary size is a good measure of verbal intelligence. Jews obtained a significantly higher mean vocabulary score than non-Jewish whites, equivalent to an IQ advantage of 7.5 IQ points. The results confirm previous reports that the verbal IQ of American Jews is higher than that
    of non-Jewish whites.

    Author Keywords: Jews; Intelligence

    4. Discussion

    The results provide seven points of interest. First, they confirm the previous studies showing that American Jews have a higher average verbal intelligence level than non-Jewish whites. Second, the 7.5 IQ point Jewish advantage is rather less than that generally proposed and found in the
    studies reviewed in the introduction finding that Jews have verbal IQs in the range of 110–113 but is closely similar to the figure of 107.8 obtained in the Bachman study which is arguably the most satisfactory of the previous studies in terms of the size and representativeness of the
    sample.

    Third, the present data has strengths in comparison with a number of previous studies in so far as they are based on a nationally representative and reasonably large sample size of 150 Jews and 5300 gentile whites. The very close similarity between the present result and the Bachman result suggests that the best reading of the verbal IQ of American Jews is 107.5 (present study) or 107.8 (Bachman). These figures
    are well below previous estimates of Jewish verbal ability.

    Fourth, an average verbal IQ of 107.5 would confer a considerable advantage for American Jews in obtaining success in professional work. There would be approximately four times as many Jews with IQs above 130, compared with gentile whites. This may provide a plausible explanation for
    the 4.8 over-representation of Jews listed in American reference books of the successful such as Who’s Who, American Men and Women of Science, The Directory of Directors, The Directory of Medical Specialists and the like
    and calculated by Weyl (1989). Fifth, the small difference of 1.4 IQ points between the non-Jewish whites and the “other” category is not statistically significant or very
    informative. The category is largely made up of Hispanics and Asians, who are themselves a heterogeneous category. Hispanics have mean IQs below whites (e.g. Herrnstein & Murray, 1994), East Asians have about the same IQ as whites ( Flynn, 1992) or slightly higher than whites ( Lynn,1995),
    while South Asians have mean IQs lower than those of whites according to the calculations of Flynn (1992). Aggregating these groups produces a combined mean very close to that of non-Jewish whites.

    Sixth, despite some three-quarters of a century of research and quite a number of papers on the intelligence of American Jews there is still a lot of useful research to be done on this question. Probably the best approach would be to analyse Jewish abilities in terms of the construct of g and of
    the eight second order cognitive factors in the taxonomy of intelligence proposed by Carroll (1993) and the similar taxonomy advanced by McGrew and Flanagan (1998). These second order factors are fluid intelligence (reasoning), crystallized intelligence (verbal comprehension and knowledge), general memory and learning, visualization, broad retrieval ability, cognitive speed and processing speed. Probably all that can be concluded with a fair degree of confidence at present is that Jews have high crystallized intelligence (verbal ability) of which the vocabulary test used in the present study is a good measure and that on this ability
    their IQ in relation to gentile whites is approximately 107.5. The Backman (1972) study provides IQs for several of the second order factors (given in the introduction to this paper) but these are so variable and in some instances so low as to raise doubts about their credibility. It is difficult to credit that the Jewish sample could have a non-verbal reasoning IQ of 91.3, and at the same time a mathematical IQ quantitative reasoning” in the McGrew and Flanagan taxonomy) of 109.7.
    It is also difficult to credit that the Jewish sample could have a verbal IQ of 107.8 while at the same time having a short term verbal memory IQ of 95.1. These results are in need of checking and replication. At present it is doubtful whether any conclusion can be reached about the intelligence
    of American Jews except that their verbal intelligence or, if this is preferred, their gc (crystallized intelligence) is about 107.5.

    Seventh, the factors responsible for the high Jewish verbal IQ raise interesting questions. It has been proposed by MacDonald (1994) that these lie in centuries of eugenic customs, especially the high status and high fertility of rabbis, a group with high verbal intelligence whose high fertility could have promoted the increase of genes for verbal intelligence in Jewish populations. While there are no strong data on the
    fertility of rabbis, there can be little doubt that it must have been higher than that of clerics in Christian gentile populations that have been required to be celibate for much of the last 2000 years. Another factor that has sometimes been suggested to explain the high intelligence of the Jews is the frequent persecutions to which these have been     subjected during the last 2000 years, which the more intelligent may have anticipated and escaped by migration while the less intelligent may have been less able to anticipate the dangers of the situation and would have
    been killed. However, it is difficult to see how this could have acted differentially on verbal intelligence and not (if Backman’s result is accepted) on non-verbal reasoning. Environmental explanations for the high JJewish IQ are difficult to find. Even if it is supposed that Jews provide
    their children with a good environment for fostering the intelligence of their children, there is a problem in providing an explanation for why they do this. Furthermore, it is not well-established that within family environmental factors have any long term effect on intelligence. The high IQ of the Jews also raises a problem for those such as Scarr (1995) who
    maintain that racial discrimination is an important cause of the low IQ of blacks. Jews have suffered a great deal of discrimination over the last 2000 years but it has apparently not had an adverse effect on their intelligence or at least on their verbal intelligence.

—————————————————-

And then they say that some Whites`subgroups have IQ’s of 107 and who knows what are the final results for every group. Clearly jewish advantage is not because of intelligence. Many studies have given about 95 for visual IQ for jews and it has been proposed that their mathematical and verbal intelligence was selected to increase because in their history the pressures concentrated on these qualities and not on visual IQ. It is plausible. Along came the concomitant intelligence increasing jewish genetic diseases typical usually only to them.

Here is one from Vdare. Jewish high representation in top universities because of affirmative action:

http://www.vdare.com/pb/070429_bargain.htm

Posted by a Finn on May 05, 2007, 08:06 PM | #

Jews, interesting topic and rarely talked about in Finland. We have about 1000 jews here.

I read that about third of the members in Amren are Jews (Lawrence Auster). Here is an article of a rabbi, who convinced Jared Taylor to accept Jews to Amren. I found this recently. He seems to be an example of a Jew, who could be negotiated with, even if he has some religious and historical opinions that we don’t agree with. All the good things starts to flow from European ethnic survival and he is for it. He mentions about the homogenizing of the non-jews towards the end and other things. Of course carefulness and our separatedness from them must be always maintained, whatever course we take:

http://www.acjna.org/acjna/articles_detail.aspx?id=104

P.s. To possible jewish readers of this site. The rabbi’s article is not my statement about Israel.

Posted by a Finn on May 05, 2007, 08:23 PM | #

Addition: I wrote in my answer to Second class citizen; “So they suspicious, if necessary, even if the answers were right.”

Should be: So stay suspicious, if necessary, even if the answers were right.

I am fairly blind to errors when I write English. This never happens when I write Finnish.

Kuten tässä pienessä näytteessä.

Posted by a Finn on May 06, 2007, 12:37 AM | #

Before answering to Fred: Some IQ studies has shown verbal IQ to be the jews best IQ area. If that 107-108 for verbal IQ is right, then with the reliable studies mathematical IQ could be estimated to be close to it. We can drop the low visual IQ away (might be even under 95), because jews’ success does not depend on it as a base. Then the combined verbal and mathematical IQ could be about 108-109 or close to it. This is for the ashkenazis. Having seen much variation in IQ studies in every possible way, I don’t make too accurate or absolute claims about any groups IQ.

To Fred: Finnish languge is fairly close to Estonian, but it is hard to understand, because fairly similar words almost always mean different things, which may or may not resemble each other. Vilja means grain (Am.) in Finnish. Puuvilja means fruit in Estonian. In Finnish it means woodgrain, which is a word we don’t have. Estonians are our closest language relatives, but our closest genetic relatives are non-mixed Latvians. Spoken Estonian sounds like the words stop too early and end abruptly.

Hungary have 2-4 same words. It sounds radically different, and cannot be understood at all by Finnish language skill. We are distant language relatives, but not related genetically (Meaning when determining our close relatives. All people are of course more or less related). When early Europeans followed the ice, we might have been of the same people, but Hungarians mixed numerous times after that with e.g Turks and different Balkan people, and they probably had different evolution also.

To Turkish we are not related by language or genetically.

By the way, many most basic words of Finnish resemble germanic words. Water=vesi in Finnish=vatten in Swedish=wasser in German.

After our closest relatives like certain Latvians, certain Estonians and certain Karelians our second closest relatives are certain northern germanic peoples, but we don’t consider ourselves to be a germanic people.

Posted by a Finn on May 06, 2007, 12:58 AM | #

germanic—->Germanic (polite) There are other mistakes, but nice next development would be edit-option, so that among other things my written English stutter might improve.

Posted by second class citizen on May 06, 2007, 03:45 AM | #

On the Jewish IQ thing:
I didn’t want this to become the focus of discussion, but I will clarify here.

If you take any two normally distributed populations, the one with a higher mean will have more members than the other above a certain point. I figured out this independently a year before Charles Murray pointed it out in his recent essay.

In IQ, the upper echelon tend to have influence above and beyond their numbers. They think faster, they write more quickly and persuasively. Think how a chessmaster can play a whole club giving only a few seconds to each move and still beat everyone. It works the same in other intellectual fields such as writing. They gravitate to leadership roles, where among other things they can set moderation policy on the internet to ensure that most of the WN point of view is relegated to the occasional glitch in the matrix.

And that’s not counting the rest of the world. There are 6 of everyone else versus 1 of us, and the “cognitive elite” are the ones more likely to learn English because it is the language of technology and international communication. And that assumes all of us are racially aware, an upper limit as it were. (A proviso - We are above average, so the upper limit is probably more like 1 in 3-4).

My point with this is only that we shouldn’t kid ourselves. Looking back into my own personal contact with Jews, and it’s probably enough to be statistically significant, I would say that most are more intelligent than our mean. I can’t recall meeting any sub 100 IQ Jews. Their mean IQ is not ultra high in all areas. Where I detected the greatest disparity was with their communications skills, their ability to persuade (particularly on the spot), to write. In those skills, I would expect 1-2 standard deviations above us.

It’s unsurprising when you consider their ecological niche. (Why focus on building a better mousetrap when you can simply figure out that Germans make the best mousetraps and then convince a German that his mousetraps are overpriced?)

They are also richer than us for the same IQ level, which gives them more idle hands to allocate to defending the status quo.

How to deal with this? Well, the first and most important way is for outliers like ourselves to breed rapidly. This is a long term game, and exponential growth will eventually do for our cause what it did for Abraham (just one guy).

Secondly we (esp. the father) can take control of our education, turn the TV off, and teach our children as much as possible. Real history. Examples of Jewish agitation at work. Every historical persecution that has been cruelly inflicted upon our race. Some of our children won’t have the attention span and go off to become vapid TV watching metrosexuals and Paris Hilton replicas. That’s ok, that means the remnants will be better and there will be a eugenic process at work.

If this sounds like taking a leaf out of the Talmud, you’re right. Hitler hacked Communism to come up with National Socialism. The more I look at it, the more it seems like a cargo cult approach. To create a competitor to Communism, first your race needs to have something akin to Judaism. Both the Communist and National Socialist experiment crumbled. The Germans were beaten. After the war they immigrated and tended to assimilate, apologizing in public for their supposed sins. The Jews stayed as Jewish as ever - cohesive, ethnocentric, unapologetic, agitating to control etc. One had Judaism, the other had Christianity.

Posted by second class citizen on May 06, 2007, 04:34 AM | #

Responding to A Finn:
“Counterpoints: Many Europeans can write English, so we can talk to each other with this language. I probably can write enough correctly, so that readers understand me. I just put words after another. Most of the e.g Jamaicans online are probably not here anyway.”

My point was directed primarily at monolingual speakers of English. Multilingualism is an important skill. English is important, but there also needs to be a language we can communicate among ourselves publicly with low probability of someone understanding content. In addition, understanding languages of foreign races is important for intelligence purposes.

“About lying: I sort out posters by their posts’ usefulness and logic. I gather everything that is useful and logical. People who are liers or just plain stupid end up usually in the same category. If lier is crafty and writes useful things mixed with detrimental, I take the useful and discard the detrimental. And stay at various degrees suspicious. Especially if the detrimental things has any intentionality in them (i.e. they are not merely mistakes or lack of understanding). % Also, if writer makes claims, and you are suspicious, you can make questions that can reveal him. I have revealed fake doctors, physicists etc. with my questions. Also you can ask about the area he is living in etc. But even if he can answer right, only things that really matters concerning this issue, is what was before the % -sign in this answer. So they suspicious, if necessary, even if the answers were right. “

You are certainly well above average intelligence. I do this too. I don’t think the average person is capable of this nor is the marginally above average person.

Posted by Guessedworker on May 06, 2007, 05:51 AM | #

Finn,

Anytime you want to correct an entry just mail me through the Contact button and I’ll see to it.

I think you do extremely well in English, btw.  I know every note Sibelius wrote, but not a word of his mother tongue (unless I use an on-line dictionary, of course).

Kaikkea hyvää.

Posted by ben tillman on May 06, 2007, 11:47 AM | #

Jews, interesting topic and rarely talked about in Finland. We have about 1000 jews here.

Your language is a major barrier to Jewish colonization.  A couple years ago I spoke with a Jew who had attempted to colonize Finland.  His strategy was to shack up with a Finnish girlfriend and learn the language through her.  Apparently, it didn’t work too well, and he abandoned the project.

Posted by a Finn on May 06, 2007, 10:03 PM | #

Thank you for your answers Fred Scrooby, Ben Tillman, Guessedworker and Second class citizen.

To Guessedworker: Thank you for the option, but I don’t want to burden you with extra work.

Because I cannot comprehensively answer all the writings, I concentrate on where there is slight differences in viewpoints.

Second class citizen: “In IQ, the upper echelon tend to have influence above and beyond their numbers. They think faster, they write more quickly and persuasively. Think how a chessmaster can play a whole club giving only a few seconds to each move and still beat everyone. It works the same in other intellectual fields such as writing.”

- I would concentrate on those instances, when the chessmaster did not win some of the opponents and learn from them. Clearly, if he uses only a couple of seconds per player, he uses automated, learned moves, like two good chess players I know, when they are playing speed chess. With sufficiently good skills, knowledge and tactics these masters can be won, and it has been shown many times to happen.

“They gravitate to leadership roles, where among other things they can set moderation policy on the internet to ensure that most of the WN point of view is relegated to the occasional glitch in the matrix.”

- They strive for leadership roles actively and help each other in it by networks or individual helping individual. We haven’t done it much and almost not at all to help our ethnic group. To the latter part: The question is, what do we do?

“And that’s not counting the rest of the world. There are 6 of everyone else versus 1 of us, and the “cognitive elite” are the ones more likely to learn English because it is the language of technology and international communication. And that assumes all of us are racially aware, an upper limit as it were. (A proviso - We are above average, so the upper limit is probably more like 1 in 3-4).”

- Why the whole world is against us? Take sub-Saharan Africa for example. Overwhelming majority of the people there just use their time to obtain something to eat. They don’t care much about the outside world. They don’t have any means to influence it. Their leaders make demands to finance and help their corrupted, exploitative systems. Technically it would be easy to just ignore their demands. By the way, ordinary Africans would benefit from it, as also some African researchers have noted. Concerning other peoples influence on us from abroad, variations exist, but in general there is nothing difficult for us. The worst foreigner problem is the growing foreign populations inside our countries. It also exacerbates the foreign countries’ influence on us artificially.

“My point with this is only that we shouldn’t kid ourselves. Looking back into my own personal contact with Jews, and it’s probably enough to be statistically significant, I would say that most are more intelligent than our mean. I can’t recall meeting any sub 100 IQ Jews. Their mean IQ is not ultra high in all areas. Where I detected the greatest disparity was with their communications skills, their ability to persuade (particularly on the spot), to write. In those skills, I would expect 1-2 standard deviations above us.”

- These scientific “facts” come and go. First Finns were thought by many to be descended from Mongols, because of language similarities of Siberian mongolic tribes. This despite that nobody here, excluding a few mixed in modern times, looks like Mongols. Then it was understood that some Finnic peoples went to Siberia and mixed with mongols, while others came to Finland. Then it was thought with flimsy inferences that we are 1/4 Mongols, based on a seventies research that did not say it (It said 1/4 genes are from east of Finland, and there are more or less mixed Karelic tribes near Finland in the western Russia) and was in itself highly inadequate.  Then it was found out that we have some Mongolic genes. Then research revealed that we have less than 1 percent if any Mongolic genes. Oi, the hand wringing and distress of the liberals. Then it was found out that these possible less than 1 percent “Mongolic” genes are either from our very, very distant past when we diverged from the Mongols together with other Europeans, arbitrary coincidences, or the product of similar harsh northern evolutionary pressures between Siberia and Finland. It was also revealed that northern European Germanic peoples have the same kind of genetic similarities with Mongols. E.g Norwegians have more of these types of genes. So, Finns have no Mongolic genes. Agony, never to be spoken about again by liberals.

In the same way the many current exaggerated “truths” of jewish IQ will wither. I have read enough about their intelligence to say, that the 115-130 between 122-137 IQ for jews (1-2 standard deviations you mentioned) are not correct.

Even the g, the short term memory, where thoughts are processed in awareness, the underlying component of much of the overall intelligence, can be improved with training, let alone other parts of intelligence. Some people say that much of the intelligence improvements disappear, if intelligence training is stopped. Of course. The idea is the same than in sports. If 500 kg squat is achieved by hard training, nobody expects that result to stay, if training is stopped. Still, there is permanent rising of the base level of strength.

Compare how much e.g. people in Hong Kong, Japan and Korea invest time and energy to their education and how seriously they take their studies, and how much average western couch potatoes. Why are the most of the eastern Asians schooled from the beginning to create and manipulate complex 3-D shapes, like paper figures folding and relief surfaces, but western children are thought mostly drawing and a little bit of easy 3-D:s. Committed jews’ children and adults improve their logic and verbal thinking extracurriculum and after work by reading, processing and debating complex Talmud texts. East Asians teach their children to calculate fast in their minds large complex calculations with imagined pearl boards. Jews give their children often private schooling with efficient creativity and inventing enhancing methods. East Asians use different perception and thinking methods, like described in the book Geography of Thought. We could learn the best sides of their perceptions and thinking and combine it with the best sides of our. Special training could be used enhance IQ test thinking ability. Etc.

Let’s talk about and compare our and other peoples intelligence again, when all these and other methods have been used by our children a long time. Also I think that intelligence tests in some form should be combined to school curriculum with effects to grades. In my past experiences in intelligence tests in Finland, students does not take intelligence tests seriously and answer them inadequately, because they don’t influence grades. The results are accordingly poor. If real results are wanted, this change is necessary at least in some countries.

Now, of course, jews are on average verbally more intelligent than we. We can use several methods to compete with this. Study the competitors strong and weak points. Then counter where the competitor is weak and you are strong. If they make longer, more persuading, enticing and eloquent texts, we can throw shorter articles, which are easier to read. Some people we can influence by packing the articles with more necessary and useful information than our competitors provide. No, matter how good the jewish articles are, to us the finding of their twist of truths and mistakes is easy. We can gather those parts from important articles and always counter them matter of factly with a organised way. To many people, raised by TV, our sites are too much. We need several different sites with gradient of nationalism. They must be connected by permanent links and occasional comments and articles from the other sites, so when person have slowly prepared and trained himself by circling in milder site, he is ready to go to a little bit stronger site. At the other end there is e.g. conservative - immigration restriction, at the other end conservative - European ethnic groups, and one site between. In those sites, the staff and trusted regulars never says a bad word of the other sites and sometimes say positive things about them. If we can make better graphics, that could be used. We can inform people with surprising methods, like theatre, show or music on the street. Offer people free good food there. Use a friendly way to tell core message. Dress with style. Nationalists could pool their money and buy cheap old radio equipment, and start broadcasting. Music and mild and friendly way to tell message, with sometimes exciting stronger message, but not hostile. We know our communities and their moods better than our competitors. We can here and there make personal contacts and connections. Etc.

“They are also richer than us for the same IQ level, which gives them more idle hands to allocate to defending the status quo.”

- Money needs tender care and raising, so they may not be so idle after all. We have more determination.

“How to deal with this? Well, the first and most important way is for outliers like ourselves to breed rapidly. This is a long term game, and exponential growth will eventually do for our cause what it did for Abraham (just one guy).”

- Yes, but this can be done efficiently only in ethnic community, where people live together. Single couples reproducing here and there haphazardly doesn’t work. 

“Secondly we (esp. the father) can take control of our education, turn the TV off, and teach our children as much as possible. Real history. Examples of Jewish agitation at work. Every historical persecution that has been cruelly inflicted upon our race. Some of our children won’t have the attention span and go off to become vapid TV watching metrosexuals and Paris Hilton replicas. That’s ok, that means the remnants will be better and there will be a eugenic process at work.”

- Yes, but there has to be mechanisms that tries to keep people, families and communities together. Children are real people, not laboratory experiments in evolution, who can be lost with a swing of a hand. If everything is done and child still goes, then he goes.

“If this sounds like taking a leaf out of the Talmud, you’re right. Hitler hacked Communism to come up with National Socialism. The more I look at it, the more it seems like a cargo cult approach. To create a competitor to Communism, first your race needs to have something akin to Judaism. Both the Communist and National Socialist experiment crumbled. The Germans were beaten. After the war they immigrated and tended to assimilate, apologizing in public for their supposed sins. The Jews stayed as Jewish as ever - cohesive, ethnocentric, unapologetic, agitating to control etc. One had Judaism, the other had Christianity.”

- (Ethnic competition = Every method a ethnic group uses to gain advantages in comparison to other groups) I would gather large group of people. Everybody would be assigned books, magazines etc. about jews, muslims and other ethnicly competitive groups. Everyone of them gather every ethnic competititon method he finds in those books etc. with references. These are combined to one open list, where known people can with references include new methods when they find them. These are studied and new methods are invented. Then suitable methods are selected, the best methods for us. The list will continue to grow and it is printed, and used as a study book by our group.

Posted by a Finn on May 06, 2007, 10:12 PM | #

Addition: I wrote: So, Finns have no Mongolic genes.—-> Means: From admixture after departure of Europeans and Asians. Certainly all people have many identical or very similar genes, e.g. genes crucial for life.

Posted by a Finn on May 06, 2007, 11:44 PM | #

Second addition: In e.g. newspapers it is fairly easy to determine with limits who are direct competitors in the area. In internet it is harder but it can be enhanced by mentioning the competitors negatively regularly. In internet the best way to distinguish oneself positively is to do something and provide something interesting and important that nobody else does and do it in impressive way. Also you could campaign your readers to quit buying your competitors products. Finnish nationalists have campaigned directly and indirectly people to stop their orders of the biggest newspaper in Finland. So many people have quit their orders that the newspaper took nasty financial loss because of it. Many have quit also the compulsory TV license, which finances socialist liberal state TV and radio company. In bigger countries than Finland you could first concentrate your campaign locally to squeeze the local players. The effect is greater. Then later move on to bigger circles.

Posted by a Finn on May 07, 2007, 12:39 AM | #

Third addition, and answer: Christianity does not offer ethnic competition methods in itself, but it can still form the basis of ethnic group thinking, if wanted. Bible tells, if reader has sufficient knowledge: Jesus followed jewish race laws (The tribe list of ancestors). Jesus dealt differently with his own people and others (The case of a Canaanite woman).  People are separate here on earth, but one in Jesus Christ after death. Turning the other cheek, not caring obout tomorrow etc. were temporary training for Heaven, made possible by Jesus. Before his death, Jesus cancelled those advices, and ordered people to prepare for tomorrow and buy swords (i.e. use violence if necessary).

Posted by a Finn on May 07, 2007, 03:07 AM | #

To Guessedworker: Kiitos samoin. Does your online dictionary tell something about these words, which have walked hand in hand with patriots’ tears?

Oi, Suomi katso, sinun päiväs koittaa,
yön uhka karkoitettu on jo pois,
ja aamun kiuru kirkkaudessa soittaa,
kuin itse taivahan kansi sois,
yön vallat aamun kirkkaus jo voittaa,
sun päiväs koittaa, oi synnyinmaa.
Oi, nouse , Suomi, nosta korkealle
pääs seppelöimä suurten muistojen,
oi nouse, Suomi, näytit maailmalle
sa että karkoitit orjuuden
ja ettet taipunut sa sorron alle,
on aamus alkanut, synnyinmaa.

Lyrics, V.A. Koskenniemi, Finlandia.

Ps. Some of the poetic words might be too much for the online dictionary.

Posted by second class citizen on May 07, 2007, 02:34 PM | #

Fred Scrooby:
“After the war National Socialism rose again in Israel where it continues (Israel is a National Socialist apartheid state) and, in modified form, Japan, today a modified National Socialist state

“

While this is true in a sense, there are some qualifications.

Most people who read MR would know that Israel is the biggest recipient of US aid (by far), which throws into question some of its self sufficiency and hence viability.

The kind of Japanese nationalists who would be the party stalwarts of the NSDAP do not hold any real power. Foreign male and female sex symbols (e.g Brad Pitt et al, Lost in Translation alluded to this) regularly advertise products on Japanese television. There is a growing foreign contingent in Japan that if it was properly NS, should have been quarantined in one city (as it once was before Commander Perry opened things up at the point of a gun). Japanese females routinely whore themselves for foreign men, and I’ve yet to hear of those men swaying gently from lamp posts.

Given, it is rather impressive that Japan is as nationalistic as it is despite being subjugated by the US post WWII.

But I should clarify. My criticism is not really of NS or any other nationalistic government experiment. A racial nationalistic government is almost a priori, a noble goal.

All I am saying is that the idea of a top down governmental strategy as some sort of silver bullet in our struggle for our kind be viewed with skepticism in that it doesn’t go far enough. By and large, pre-WWII governments could be considered racial nationalist. I think I read here that Griffin for example is not unlike a politician of the 1950s - the status quo has shifted that far.

We had all that, and yet our societies have still been subverted.

On Jewish IQ:
1) If you do a “lopping” on Europeans by IQ until the Jewish average is met, you will get a non-Gaussian distribution. It will be fairly smart, but possess less brilliant people. Jews will still more than hold their own when it comes to things less plagued by politics, e.g. Chess champions, Nobel winners, etc. And I suspect that they will do even better comparatively in their strong points - writing of all kinds (scripts, novels, journalism), and political agitating. Of course, you can’t measure activities in these strong points fairly because that’s where the power is and Jews act to actively exclude outsiders.

And when it comes to those skills, one IQ 160 (or 180, or 200) person can do more in a day than a 115 person will do in a lifetime.

Again, I don’t say this to be disheartening, I say this to be realistic and plan an appropriate response. You can still beat Mike Tyson in his prime, just force him to do MMA and put him against Fedor. You can still beat Kasporov, either play him in something other than chess or modify the rules slightly - e.g. limit the turn time limits or make him play a 400lb guy in a chess match involving shots of 151.

2) I know exactly what you mean with this. The Jew is not in competition with our underclass. And at the moment, our overclass is losing the fight.*

It is losing in large part because of lack of ethnocentrism. And I hold that strong genetically based ethnocentrism, even with a moderate IQ, is something we should not spurn. But IQ is still a problem.

For one, the lower and even middle classes are still pretty darn clueless. You can connect the dots for many of these, and it has zero effect. Even in receptive people, you can go through a movie, blow by blow, showing how it is constructed to give a toxic message to the recipient, and finding evidence as to who produced it etc. etc. You can gain agreement, taking steps to ensure that you are not fishing for agreement and that they actually agree with you.

And yet that same individual will like as not rent another movie, listen to gangsta rap, etc. etc. without the slightest change in behavior. They will gain no interest in history, no desire to connect the dots some more.

And the moderately ethnocentric but low IQ will still get conned by flag waving bs - carefully concocted propaganda that pushes all the right buttons but leads down the garden path.

As I said before, this is a problem because lower classes that must look to the upper classes for guidance because they are unequipped to guide themselves. With a disconnect between their local, natural leadership they find de facto leadership on the internet and the TV. Unfortunately because English is a world language now, they will not find guidance there and not be smart enough to be able to differentiate truth from an eloquent fiction.

And unless dire economic circumstances primes the pump of ethnocentrism, the situation isn’t changing any time soon.

Ethnocentrism is a start, but without the IQ and immediate stopgap measures to mitigate IQ disadvantage, we will continue to struggle.

*(That being said, if I was in the position of said underclass knowing what I know, I wouldn’t trust the Jewish overclass one bit no matter how many times he shows documentaries on NS Eugenics policies. At least with our kind at the helm, you have the chance to sire a son or daughter or have a brother or cousin go on with roughly the same DNA, just some different genes for more intelligence and ethnocentrism. With the Jew at the helm, you will no longer recognize your grandkids as your own.)

3) “( the IQ-difference between Euros and Jews is, basically, that the lower-IQ part of the Jews got lopped off and was kept from re-forming itself each generation, leaving the Jews with just the upper-IQ part, the same part the Euros have but the Euros have the lower part as well, since it hasn’t been lopped off)”

Maybe that was the case several thousand years ago. Since then that distribution has become more normal, and it is evidenced by the disproportional part played by their intellectual elite as stated in my response to “1”.

4) “Euros aren’t hopeless in the ethnoracial conciousness department but just need more pump-priming than Jews since they aren’t born with same highly-strung conditioned reflexes for it the Jews are.”

True. Undoubtedly, our pool of DNA needs more of this drive over time, and until then, stopgap measures.

Thanks Fred for forcing me to clarify.

Posted by daniel j on May 07, 2007, 03:05 PM | #

As I said before, this is a problem because lower classes that must look to the upper classes for guidance because they are unequipped to guide themselves.

Finally…. An elitist…

Ne’er have truer words been spoken.

Posted by second class citizen on May 07, 2007, 03:55 PM | #

My response to “A Finn”:
“- I would concentrate on those instances, when the chessmaster did not win some of the opponents and learn from them. Clearly, if he uses only a couple of seconds per player, he uses automated, learned moves, like two good chess players I know, when they are playing speed chess. With sufficiently good skills, knowledge and tactics these masters can be won, and it has been shown many times to happen.”

Yes, this is what I am talking about. The automated mechanisms are quite obvious once you know what they are. I believe that counters can be taught to sufficiently intelligent individuals, and most importantly to the young. The older people get, the less they change and whoever gets there first wins.

The most obvious place this can be done is with your own children. As I said before, a good knowledge of real history, propaganda production, logical fallacies, and much more are necessary to prepare them for the real world.

“They strive for leadership roles actively and help each other in it by networks or individual helping individual. We haven’t done it much and almost not at all to help our ethnic group. To the latter part: The question is, what do we do?”

Network with like-minded individuals and help them out on a personal level. Share propaganda. Trade skills and goods, strive to jointly school your children together. That’s a start.

“Why the whole world is against us? Take sub-Saharan Africa for example. Overwhelming majority of the people there just use their time to obtain something to eat. They don’t care much about the outside world. They don’t have any means to influence it. Their leaders make demands to finance and help their corrupted, exploitative systems. Technically it would be easy to just ignore their demands. By the way, ordinary Africans would benefit from it, as also some African researchers have noted.”

Sub-Saharan Africa is the worst example you could pick - they have the lowest smart fraction. They have very few influential opinion makers, writers, etc. Mandela is a drop in the bucket. Arabs, Mongoloids, Subcontinentals and of course, Non-Arab Semites are the most important.

“Concerning other peoples influence on us from abroad, variations exist, but in general there is nothing difficult for us. The worst foreigner problem is the growing foreign populations inside our countries. It also exacerbates the foreign countries’ influence on us artificially.”

Again, you are probably speaking as someone who already has a language that is difficult for foreigners to penetrate, hence for you foreigners in your country are the most pressing and important problem. For speakers of English you have the problems of distinguishing a voice fighting for your own interests amidst the multiracial English speaking milieu.

“- These scientific “facts” come and go.”

I realize this, which is why I like to compare and double check with my own experience. (Have you personally known > 20 Jews? I have.) Where I have noticed the most outsized variations are in the personal, persuading on the spot activities. Selling, you might say.

And perhaps some of this is not measured by IQ tests. For example, using ad hominems, straw men, appeals to authority, lying outright etc will not win you any points in IQ tests. And yet they are very persuasive techniques which is why it is natural for a Jew to instinctively use them (because of the niche they occupy).

““In the same way the many current exaggerated “truths” of jewish IQ will wither. I have read enough about their intelligence to say, that the 115-130 between 122-137 IQ for jews (1-2 standard deviations you mentioned) are not correct.”“

Greg Cochran has seen the Lynn study and would disagree with you, suggesting 1 standard deviation as an upper bound. He cites several other papers.
http://homepage.mac.com/harpend/.Public/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf

If you recall, where I suggested 1-2 standard deviations was not in overall IQ but in convincing (debating) personally on the spot, and in verbal ability.

“Even the g, the short term memory”

Do you actually mean that, or is that an error of translation?

“where thoughts are processed in awareness, the underlying component of much of the overall intelligence, can be improved with training, let alone other parts of intelligence. Some people say that much of the intelligence improvements disappear, if intelligence training is stopped. Of course. The idea is the same than in sports. If 500 kg squat is achieved by hard training, nobody expects that result to stay, if training is stopped. Still, there is permanent rising of the base level of strength”

That’s true, and what I would refer to as a “stop gap” measure. In the long term it must be hard coded, and that is something only eugenics can achieve.

The best way appears to be lots of early reading. If a child can be addicted to reading, it’s not that hard. First you must addict the child to reading. You do that by finding racially correct (or indifferent) books that are very addictive, in a variety of genres. (I’d use something like amazon ratings to determine which books work well). As you find books that the child takes to, feed him more in the same genres and by similar authors, of increasing difficulty.

“Compare how much e.g. people in Hong Kong, Japan and Korea invest time and energy to their education and how seriously they take their studies, and how much average western couch potatoes. Why are the most of the eastern Asians schooled from the beginning to create and manipulate complex 3-D shapes, like paper figures folding and relief surfaces, but western children are thought mostly drawing and a little bit of easy 3-D:s.”

Partly you have a chicken and the egg problem. Over time culture becomes hard coded as those who are genetically suited to a culture are more successful, reproduce more etc.

Standardized testing has been in place for 2000-3000 years in China, as a pre-req for entering into government bureaucracy (and hence reproductive success). This might have something to do with it, although I’m unsure of specifically of whether the Japanese did this too (although they have borrowed extensively from China). I certainly wouldn’t be surprised.

I am all for getting our children increased IQ at a good cost/benefit ratio. If these things work, I’d be happy to try them.

“Committed jews’ children and adults improve their logic and verbal thinking extracurriculum and after work by reading, processing and debating complex Talmud texts. East Asians teach their children to calculate fast in their minds large complex calculations with imagined pearl boards. Jews give their children often private schooling with efficient creativity and inventing enhancing methods. East Asians use different perception and thinking methods, like described in the book Geography of Thought. We could learn the best sides of their perceptions and thinking and combine it with the best sides of our. Special training could be used enhance IQ test thinking ability. Etc.”“

As I said, all this stuff is important to do. Ultimately though, we must aim at hard coding these abilities genetically. That will enable our people to survive police states where they have a public education system and only limited time to continue education in the home.

“Let’s talk about and compare our and other peoples intelligence again, when all these and other methods have been used by our children a long time. Also I think that intelligence tests in some form should be combined to school curriculum with effects to grades. In my past experiences in intelligence tests in Finland, students does not take intelligence tests seriously and answer them inadequately, because they don’t influence grades. The results are accordingly poor. If real results are wanted, this change is necessary at least in some countries.”

In countries where it means a big deal, test-retest scores should show this (i.e. USA). The SAT test-retest scores show that it isn’t easy to raise these scores much, and the SAT is basically a proxy IQ test.

“Now, of course, jews are on average verbally more intelligent than we. We can use several methods to compete with this. Study the competitors strong and weak points. Then counter where the competitor is weak and you are strong. If they make longer, more persuading, enticing and eloquent texts, we can throw shorter articles, which are easier to read. Some people we can influence by packing the articles with more necessary and useful information than our competitors provide. No, matter how good the jewish articles are, to us the finding of their twist of truths and mistakes is easy. We can gather those parts from important articles and always counter them matter of factly with a organised way. To many people, raised by TV, our sites are too much. We need several different sites with gradient of nationalism. They must be connected by permanent links and occasional comments and articles from the other sites, so when person have slowly prepared and trained himself by circling in milder site, he is ready to go to a little bit stronger site. At the other end there is e.g. conservative - immigration restriction, at the other end conservative - European ethnic groups, and one site between. In those sites, the staff and trusted regulars never says a bad word of the other sites and sometimes say positive things about them. If we can make better graphics, that could be used. We can inform people with surprising methods, like theatre, show or music on the street. Offer people free good food there. Use a friendly way to tell core message. Dress with style. Nationalists could pool their money and buy cheap old radio equipment, and start broadcasting. Music and mild and friendly way to tell message, with sometimes exciting stronger message, but not hostile. We know our communities and their moods better than our competitors. We can here and there make personal contacts and connections. Etc.”

EXACTLY. This is what I am getting at. Those are some good ideas. Counter where they are weak and we are strong.

We are strong in the home, locally. Each parent can determine to a large extent the media and education “diet” of the child. In tandem with other racial nationalists, we can use economies of scale to further increase this effect.

Each of us has the ability also to determine the number of recruits of the next generation, by maximizing number of children, minimizing unnecessary expenses. This will grow our numbers permanently, and exponentially.

“- Money needs tender care and raising, so they may not be so idle after all. We have more determination.”

No, they are anything but idle. However, they can allocate members to this important but not moneymaking task.

“- Yes, but this can be done efficiently only in ethnic community, where people live together. Single couples reproducing here and there haphazardly doesn’t work.”

Obviously this will work better in an ethnic community. However, everyone must start somewhere. If you are ethnocentric, the onus on you is to reproduce. If you are ethnocentric and intelligent, there should be double the onus.

The search for like-minded individuals is something that is probably best done over time, so that you can filter for trust effectively (i.e. you have a much better idea of who to trust over 5-10 years than in a single year). In the mean time, best to start earlier and oftener. You have 5 years or so before they even need schooling and when the benefits of ethnic community really shine.

“- Yes, but there has to be mechanisms that tries to keep people, families and communities together. Children are real people, not laboratory experiments in evolution, who can be lost with a swing of a hand. If everything is done and child still goes, then he goes.”

Absolutely. I am just countering the (often raised) objection that “you will lose some anyway, and the worst thing you can do is be overly strict because when the child meets the Real World (tm), he will go the opposite way.”

Additionally, I will say that often this is applied to Christian households. Racial nationalism is capable of much more rational defense than Christianity, and hence while there will be some attrition it is possible to give an intelligent child the tools to defend his outlook. For example, if you argue with a Jew intelligently about the issue, eventually his only choice is to sputter, give up or resort to violence.

“- (Ethnic competition = Every method a ethnic group uses to gain advantages in comparison to other groups) I would gather large group of people. Everybody would be assigned books, magazines etc. about jews, muslims and other ethnicly competitive groups. Everyone of them gather every ethnic competititon method he finds in those books etc. with references. These are combined to one open list, where known people can with references include new methods when they find them. These are studied and new methods are invented. Then suitable methods are selected, the best methods for us. The list will continue to grow and it is printed, and used as a study book by our group.”

Excellent ideas, all. We are certainly thinking along the same lines.

We are very fortunate that dense, relatively permanent digital reproduction equipment exists to enable all of this. It has lowered the bar immensely.

######

Additionally, I’d like to thank whoever has the thankless task of moderating MR. You do a great job of keeping out the provocateurs and allow us to focus our energies on something at least partially worthwhile.

Posted by second class citizen on May 07, 2007, 04:06 PM | #

DanielJ:

“Finally…. An elitist…

Ne’er have truer words been spoken. “

Which truer words are you referring to? “Finally…. An elitist” or my quote (which needs some grammatical editing)? Elitist is usually used as an epithet, conjuring up images of New Yorker reading, cigar smoking, latte drinking wankers.

I often think back to 1984 and Winston Smith’s musings “If there is any hope, it lies in the proles.” And of course, he goes out and meets some actual proles and tries to talk about important things. He then finds out they care only about the footy, what’s on the telly, beer, cigarettes, etc etc.

I’ve done it myself, more than once. With similar results.

Posted by daniel j on May 07, 2007, 04:45 PM | #

I meant it without a hint of irony.

I thought that was what this was really about. None of this softer, kinder, gentler Jared Taylor style white nationalism (Nor am I suggesting a brutish, Stormfront, kiddo, daddy can we play Nazi mentality.)

I’m with you. Cold, hard, elitism is the cure.

It takes a revolutionary, and elite vanguard.

I’m not using the term as slander but as heaping Platonic praise.

I’ve done it too. It is disheartening, but I realize there are people like you out there and it makes me happy. It is probably worse for me though, because kids my age are really out of touch. I laugh because all of my confidants and friends are practically octogenarians.

It reminds me of that scene from Dazed and Confused when that future lawyer kid realizes he doesn’t want to defend the pathetic people the liberals tried to convince him to love.

The worst times are when (in my extremely disgusting town of San Francisco) I can convince someone in a druken stupor to finally admit how he really feels about the mud people, and then the next night he is in there hitting on some disgusting slut not caring bout anything.

Bread and circuses for them. The love of truth is long gone from even the religious, one certainly can’t expect it from this Judaical Nihilists.

Posted by daniel j on May 07, 2007, 05:16 PM | #

a relevant previous post of mine: In the Balance

Posted by second class citizen on May 07, 2007, 09:38 PM | #

Thanks daniel j. I read that post before.

While I think our way is better, it is good that there are a healthy diversity in WN experiments and ideas going on right now. A combination of breadth first and depth first search, a veritable renaissance in racial nationalist thinking. All of these sources are worth a detailed read now and then. Even though there is a lot of rubbish on Stormfront, occasionally you will find some gems. With that many members, they certainly have a few geniuses within their ranks.

Even GNXP and Sailer serve somewhat of a purpose, although they are careful not to link to the further extremes. They serve to prove racial reality. I know they won’t link further right than Jared Taylor and VDare, but just learning the vocabulary and topics of interest is a start. Plug the new racially aware vocabulary into a search engine and often you will come to an even less politically correct site.

By that stage, a person might actually read with an open mind. Because normally most people will just laugh uncomfortably, with images dancing inside their heads of people laughing at them, calling them paranoid schizophrenic, asking where they keep their white hood, wondering if they are indeed going crazy. And close the tab.

I recommend Yggdrasil’s WN library. If you haven’t already, read the whole thing.

Posted by daniel j on May 07, 2007, 11:39 PM | #

Diversity huh? That is catchy!

True, true… There is room for Mr. Jared Samuel Taylor and he is most definitely a stepping stone.

Yggdrasil has been bookmarked and thoroughly read and re-read.

I’m sort of in the process of archiving his and the Western Safeguard Initiative’s website.

However, understand what I’m saying. These things are good for the “quantity” amongst us, but only Plato, Socrates, Virgil, Dante, Augustine, Calvin, Newton, Locke, Rousseau, Leibniz, et al are good enough for us on the “quality” end of the spectrum.

To recap: Stormfront/Amren/VDARE/Conservatives = “quantity” or potential quantity

Some of MR and their milieu = “Quality”

postscript: what is your e-mail address?

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 09:17 AM | #

I answer predominantly there, where there is minor differences in viewpoints.

Second class citizen: “The most obvious place this can be done is with your own children. As I said before, a good knowledge of real history, propaganda production, logical fallacies, and much more are necessary to prepare them for the real world.”

- Yes.

“Network with like-minded individuals and help them out on a personal level. Share propaganda. Trade skills and goods, strive to jointly school your children together. That’s a start.”

- Exactly.

“Sub-Saharan Africa is the worst example you could pick - they have the lowest smart fraction. They have very few influential opinion makers, writers, etc. Mandela is a drop in the bucket. Arabs, Mongoloids, Subcontinentals and of course, Non-Arab Semites are the most important.”

- And we wouldn’t be even talking about them without the immigration, miscegenation, other ethnic groups’ criminality etc.

“Again, you are probably speaking as someone who already has a language that is difficult for foreigners to penetrate, hence for you foreigners in your country are the most pressing and important problem. For speakers of English you have the problems of distinguishing a voice fighting for your own interests amidst the multiracial English speaking milieu.”

- There is differences in our situation, and your situation is worse than ours, but same rules still apply, when estimating speakers and writers. Maybe it is so much worse, because couch potatoes in your country are swayed so easily with any English words. I assume, that the situation for you and comparable people is much better. 

“I realize this, which is why I like to compare and double check with my own experience. (Have you personally known > 20 Jews? I have.) Where I have noticed the most outsized variations are in the personal, persuading on the spot activities. Selling, you might say.”

- I have known two jewish people, but they were not my friends. I agree to the latter part, but it applies to certain jews, it is not ubiquitous quality. Still their number and quality is higher than amongst us. Those jews I knew we considered to be obnoxious by the people around them, because of their constant arrogant self-flattery, rude selfishness and calculation in personal contacts, and irritating way of talking to people. They had on the spot ability to turn anybody away from them. I don’t claim they are representative of the whole jewish community.

“And perhaps some of this is not measured by IQ tests. For example, using ad hominems, straw men, appeals to authority, lying outright etc will not win you any points in IQ tests. And yet they are very persuasive techniques which is why it is natural for a Jew to instinctively use them (because of the niche they occupy).”

- Yes

“Greg Cochran has seen the Lynn study and would disagree with you, suggesting 1 standard deviation as an upper bound. He cites several other papers.

http://homepage.mac.com/harpend/.Public/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf

- And those are the studies of jewish IQ that Lynn revised downwards. I have read that paper. In addition, I don’t trust studies of jewish IQ if there is not accompanying study of the participants quantity and quality representation ability of the wider jewish community (Private school, elite school, rich area; participants/parents status, occupation, schooling and income etc.) These would be good to every IQ study. In addition, having learned how jewish businesses etc. has so often been done, it would be approriate in those studies, where the researcher is jewish or hired by them/close to them, to be checked for fraud by repeated tests, which imitate the original tests as closely as possible.

While the basic claim of IQ evolution is likely to be true in the linked sudy, there seem to be historical mistakes here and there. For example, jews have been in many other professions in addition to money professions. The study seemed to downplay those. Also it is not clear, how much even the money professions in history depended on mathematics. Basic skill in it was of course necessary, so the dummest mathematically were dropped off. But the mathematics in economy in those days was not very advanced. Complex calculation in economy started to become prevalent in modern times, in modern complex economies with shares, derivates, bonds etc. Having read about jewish histories, it seems to me, that even in money professions, the successes came mainly because of verbal skill, and cunning/intelligent plans, which are a continuation of verbal logic and skill.

With this in itself, we cannot of course prove certain IQ. If jewish IQ rose, and it probably did, we should know what was the starting point and how much it rose. We come back to the IQ tests.

The study says the jews are Europeans, because they have the same elements in their Dna than Europeans as a whole, but they don’t say that jews are an unique mix of those elements, added with outside elements. In addition, in Europe there is no “Europe as a whole” Dna. The are varying Dna’s in the different regions, which differ from jewish Dna even more.

In jewish intelligence, all the Nobels, this or that positions in universities, professions etc. cannot be used as a straightforward IQ proof. Jewish networks help jews advance in their scientific and other careers. Jewish rich finance jewish researchers and scholars. Jews among others promoted affirmative action, and it increases their numbers in professions and universities, and decreases their competitors numbers. Holocaust money extortion (Finkelstein, Holocaust industry) are used to finance the best education for jews. Etc. All the jewish ethnic competition methods should studied and their effect estimated as a whole, and then decreased from those what they have achieved in society, before jewish achievements in the society could be used as an estimation of their IQ. To make matters more complex, those crafty ethnic competition methods are a mixture of intelligence and ethnocentricity.

“If you recall, where I suggested 1-2 standard deviations was not in overall IQ but in convincing (debating) personally on the spot, and in verbal ability.”

- Yes, but it is still too high for their verbal IQ.

““Even the g, the short term memory”

Do you actually mean that, or is that an error of translation?”

- Yes I do. Short term memory (what we are aware) is the place where general intellectual transformations of information is done. The more complex information transformations a person can do in his short term memory, the more intelligent here generally is. Of course, short term memory is not in isolation and it’s abilities are complemented and enhanced by other factors, but it is a important factor in intelligence.

“That’s true, and what I would refer to as a “stop gap” measure. In the long term it must be hard coded, and that is something only eugenics can achieve.”

- Certainly, but Dna never makes anything for us just by lying in sofa. We have to always squeeze every drop of intelligence from it, no matter what our theoretical genetic intelligence limit is.

“The best way appears to be lots of early reading. If a child can be addicted to reading, it’s not that hard. First you must addict the child to reading. You do that by finding racially correct (or indifferent) books that are very addictive, in a variety of genres. (I’d use something like amazon ratings to determine which books work well). As you find books that the child takes to, feed him more in the same genres and by similar authors, of increasing difficulty.”

- Boys have tendency to develop voluntary taste for reading later than girls. It should be rounded with cunning, e.g. combining it with something that they like. Also, different persons have different strong points. If somebody is geometrically gifted, reading could be combined with lots of pictures and maybe building with legos or such those things that are read from books or seen from their pictures. If they like cars and machines, then provide books with those. Remember, 10-15% ethnic nationalism. Child needs all kinds of information to keep him interested and to learn all kinds of necessary information. You should point the most importance of ethnic nationalism by telling it is the most important thing, not by too much quantity.

“Partly you have a chicken and the egg problem. Over time culture becomes hard coded as those who are genetically suited to a culture are more successful, reproduce more etc.”

-  In real world it is not quite that straightforward. People have abilities that just float around without good use. Admiral Perry shot some rounds from his ships artillery to Japan, and woke the sleeping talent to produce technology and science. The ability was always there, but before it was wasted in futility. Same way we have e.g. very visual society, and use our geometrical abilities a lot, but mainly to futile things. What if we take that ability, and start to use it intensively to important things in teaching, work, thinking and science? We would produce success.

“Standardized testing has been in place for 2000-3000 years in China, as a pre-req for entering into government bureaucracy (and hence reproductive success). This might have something to do with it, although I’m unsure of specifically of whether the Japanese did this too (although they have borrowed extensively from China). I certainly wouldn’t be surprised.”

- It was also rigid and inert non-developing schooling. I think most of their technical abilities have been developed among normal people in their daily life, combined with requirements made to them by communities and state.

“I am all for getting our children increased IQ at a good cost/benefit ratio. If these things work, I’d be happy to try them.”

- Good.

“As I said, all this stuff is important to do. Ultimately though, we must aim at hard coding these abilities genetically. That will enable our people to survive police states where they have a public education system and only limited time to continue education in the home.”

- That is important point. We have to survive in any condition. Evolution or artificial evolution can produce very important/crucial strong tendencies, but not automatical results. There have to be a culture, some of it surreptitious, that directs and intensifies those tendencies. Tendencies always strive somewhat to the right direction, but right culture creates the necessary accuracy and concentration of tendencies.

“In countries where it means a big deal, test-retest scores should show this (i.e. USA). The SAT test-retest scores show that it isn’t easy to raise these scores much, and the SAT is basically a proxy IQ test.”

- In Finland the closest thing to it is the international Pisa test.

“We are strong in the home, locally. Each parent can determine to a large extent the media and education “diet” of the child. In tandem with other racial nationalists, we can use economies of scale to further increase this effect.”

- Yes, families and communities are the powerhouses.

“Each of us has the ability also to determine the number of recruits of the next generation, by maximizing number of children, minimizing unnecessary expenses. This will grow our numbers permanently, and exponentially.”

- My other parent comes from a family, where there was nine children and in the previous generation thirteen. We have strong family connections. In my parents house two large families lived in the same house. If you want exponential growth, strong communities are needed. It creates the necessary determination and the right environment.

“No, they are anything but idle. However, they can allocate members to this important but not moneymaking task”.

- Yes.

“Obviously this will work better in an ethnic community. However, everyone must start somewhere. If you are ethnocentric, the onus on you is to reproduce. If you are ethnocentric and intelligent, there should be double the onus.”

- Parents decisions about child number are influenced by many complex interdependant factors. If we just say: “It is good to have many children” many times, it does not change the most of the factors. Children need many concrete things and a right environment. Parents know that instinctively. Compare two following speeches by imaginery leaders. “It is good to have lots of food. Follow me.” “I know how we can grow and produce enough food to feed large families and plenty to the stocks. Follow me.” Can you now see the problem with “It is good to have many children.”? We should always accompany child talk with how we create superb community for the families and excellent environment for the children, and strive towards these with everything we have. Say, 300 nationalists could together buy an area and build their houses there in normal home buying fashion. Add a constitution of ethnic and other rules, and decision making systems, coordinate your actions and declare all the people there to be like close relatives and a community is born. Many of these here and there, and coordination, co-operation and marriages between them and a new mini society is born. And a lots of children. Exponentially.

Continued….

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 09:18 AM | #

Continuation:

“The search for like-minded individuals is something that is probably best done over time, so that you can filter for trust effectively (i.e. you have a much better idea of who to trust over 5-10 years than in a single year). In the mean time, best to start earlier and oftener. You have 5 years or so before they even need schooling and when the benefits of ethnic community really shine.”

- Makes this process faster by getting to know in real life all the local nationalists in your area, and from a little bit further too.

Absolutely. I am just countering the (often raised) objection that “you will lose some anyway, and the worst thing you can do is be overly strict because when the child meets the Real World (tm), he will go the opposite way.”

- Ok.

“Additionally, I will say that often this is applied to Christian households. Racial nationalism is capable of much more rational defense than Christianity, and hence while there will be some attrition it is possible to give an intelligent child the tools to defend his outlook. For example, if you argue with a Jew intelligently about the issue, eventually his only choice is to sputter, give up or resort to violence.”

- There should be no borders between our believers and non believers. Christianity does not in any way prevent racial nationalism. Studies show also that religion improves group cohesion. Personally, I believe in God and I am somewhat a Christian. With me the jews have resorted to the second option.

““- (Ethnic competition = Every method a ethnic group uses to gain advantages in comparison to other groups) I would gather large group of people. Everybody would be assigned books, magazines etc. about jews, muslims and other ethnicly competitive groups. Everyone of them gather every ethnic competititon method he finds in those books etc. with references. These are combined to one open list, where known people can with references include new methods when they find them. These are studied and new methods are invented. Then suitable methods are selected, the best methods for us. The list will continue to grow and it is printed, and used as a study book by our group.”

Excellent ideas, all. We are certainly thinking along the same lines.”

- Yes we are.

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 09:44 AM | #

Ben Tillman: “Your language is a major barrier to Jewish colonization.  A couple years ago I spoke with a Jew who had attempted to colonize Finland.  His strategy was to shack up with a Finnish girlfriend and learn the language through her.  Apparently, it didn’t work too well, and he abandoned the project.”

- Sounds like the girl abandoned him. Comes to mind: We have about 1000 jews in Finland, about 5,2 million people, of whom almost 200 000 have foreign background. Three jews are prominent media and society personalities, who advocate immigration, human rights, miscegenation etc. Ruben Stiller, Karmela Liebkind and Martin Scheinin. What is the probability, that random comparably small minority produces proportionally as many comparable persons.

Posted by Might makes Right on May 08, 2007, 09:54 AM | #

- I have known two jewish people, but they were not my friends.

As of matter of personal experience, I’ve met hundreds if not thousands of Jews. What struck me most wasn’t ethnocentrism—no; it was that they are by far the most intelligent race on earth.

Posted by second class citizen on May 08, 2007, 12:27 PM | #

A Finn:
“- Yes I do. Short term memory (what we are aware) is the place where general intellectual transformations of information is done. The more complex information transformations a person can do in his short term memory, the more intelligent here generally is. Of course, short term memory is not in isolation and it’s abilities are complemented and enhanced by other factors, but it is a important factor in intelligence.”

From what I am aware, g is the principal factor derived from a factor analysis of IQ. Separate from short term memory.

On Jewish IQ: I suppose we can only agree to disagree. I weigh the studies with my own personal experience, and I have to agree with MightMakesRight - they are the most intelligent race on earth. Possibly by far. That’s as a race of course. Way smarter than the average Northern European.

On a personal level, I think I can solve problems and analyze systems with the best of them, beating most. I could probably do just as good a job at oratory as their upper echelon given time to prepare. However I am not ashamed to admit that I would be routinely trounced by probably even an average Jew if it came down to persuading someone on a real-time level with little preparation.

“In jewish intelligence, all the Nobels, this or that positions in universities, professions etc. cannot be used as a straightforward IQ proof.”

I’ll give another example - creation of the atom bomb. I think either 8 or 9 of the main 10 behind that were Jewish. Sure they had oodles of resources but still, that’s by no means a non-trivial feat.

“- Parents decisions about child number are influenced by many complex interdependant factors. If we just say: “It is good to have many children” many times, it does not change the most of the factors. Children need many concrete things and a right environment. Parents know that instinctively. Compare two following speeches by imaginery leaders. “It is good to have lots of food. Follow me.” “I know how we can grow and produce enough food to feed large families and plenty to the stocks. Follow me.” Can you now see the problem with “It is good to have many children.”? “

Hey, it’s a complex thing. On most nationalist sites, I see very little emphasis on what is to me a most obviously important thing. But it’s non-trivial.

First you must establish the reasons for a goal. To do it completely, it really requires multiple essays.

Only then can you go about the process of optimizing things to achieve that goal. i.e. Going down the list of things that are required and brainstorming ways of minimizing costs involved in achieving those things. Personally, I know it is possible because our ancestors did things on much tighter budgets, and we also have virtually zero information duplication costs.

“We should always accompany child talk with how we create superb community for the families and excellent environment for the children, and strive towards these with everything we have. Say, 300 nationalists could together buy an area and build their houses there in normal home buying fashion. Add a constitution of ethnic and other rules, and decision making systems, coordinate your actions and declare all the people there to be like close relatives and a community is born. Many of these here and there, and coordination, co-operation and marriages between them and a new mini society is born. And a lots of children. Exponentially.”

If you set the bar at 300 people, it will never get done. Start in the region of 5 families, if you each have 10 kids that’s 50 the first generation and 500 the next, which will probably be 300 after defection. As you go on you learn from your experiences, constantly refining.

In addition, you will stay below the radar until it’s too late. At that stage, you should be able to mobilize the whole community to protest etc, each person secure that they are not going to lose their jobs etc.

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 12:39 PM | #

Might makes right: “.... What struck me most wasn’t ethnocentrism—no; ....”

- Whatever percentage of them was ethnocentric; ethnocentrism is quality, which ethnocentric jews try to keep secret.

To Fred Scrooby: In present time there is also lopping off of liberal and secular intelligent jews. I contemplate what is the effect of that on IQ.

Posted by second class citizen on May 08, 2007, 12:47 PM | #

Daniel J:
I don’t have an email address I want to post here at present. However, I can find your address at your site and will contact you when I have some free time. (Nice site/essays btw). At the moment personal life issues (job etc) are taking center stage.

I use MR just to keep tabs on things, and occasionally I get lured to post. I have to say that the site is better than ever. Certainly a greatly distilled concentration of nationalists. Not sure why that is. Perhaps the topics are sufficiently complex (i.e. scientific discussion) that it bores most of the lower IQ.

Posted by daniel j on May 08, 2007, 01:33 PM | #

Right on.

Thanks brother.

Normally I update my site every week, so keep visiting.

Job issues are center stage with me as well. I gotta fly to Boston today for an interview.

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 02:47 PM | #

Second class citizen: “From what I am aware, g is the principal factor derived from a factor analysis of IQ. Separate from short term memory.”

- Well, I was talking about what produces g, the general intelligence factor. It can be derived from different I.Q. tests by removing plain memory questions, routine questions, too easy questions, questions using ready formulas, questions testing social skills etc. Only those that require information transformation in head are left.

On Jewish IQ: I suppose we can only agree to disagree. I weigh the studies with my own personal experience, and I have to agree with MightMakesRight - they are the most intelligent race on earth. Possibly by far. That’s as a race of course. Way smarter than the average Northern European.

- So let’s disagree on this. I remember when I predicted in the beginning of nineties, that whites could rule the heavyweight class in professional boxing, if physically shot put types were trained to box from early on. I was told it is not possible, blacks have more reach, narrower waist, less body fat, thinner legs, more agility in proportion to their reach etc. Behold, now whites rule heavyweight boxing. I was interested in physics, and I read and contemplated many physics books for lay people. I thought that with quantum tunneling through obstacle/obstacles messages could be send faster than light (this is a natural idea in quantum physics). I went to Helsinki university’s physics department and asked from professor and assistant professor about it. They both said it is impossible, no information can go faster than light. Behold, later German researchers send photons through glass faster than light and music with it. Only part of the photons get through, but it is enough to carry message. It has been repeated. There have been other comparable small predictions I have made, and have been later been proved to be right. It is interesting to see what happens with IQ. Now our IQ is of course on it’s way down. Our former scientific success is slowly waning in comparison to Asians. I am interested in phenomenons that go against this trend.

“On a personal level, I think I can solve problems and analyze systems with the best of them, beating most. I could probably do just as good a job at oratory as their upper echelon given time to prepare. However I am not ashamed to admit that I would be routinely trounced by probably even an average Jew if it came down to persuading someone on a real-time level with little preparation.”

- Well, it might be that your talent is more in writing. One on one persuading requires certain marketing personality. I don’t see any obstacles why you couldn’t write as good as or better articles than good jewish writers.

“I’ll give another example - creation of the atom bomb. I think either 8 or 9 of the main 10 behind that were Jewish. Sure they had oodles of resources but still, that’s by no means a non-trivial feat.”

- I would like to check that. Anyway, question here is not how intelligent they are (they are intelligent), it is what we can do and reach.

“Only then can you go about the process of optimizing things to achieve that goal. i.e. Going down the list of things that are required and brainstorming ways of minimizing costs involved in achieving those things. Personally, I know it is possible because our ancestors did things on much tighter budgets, and we also have virtually zero information duplication costs.”

- Yes.

“If you set the bar at 300 people, it will never get done. Start in the region of 5 families, if you each have 10 kids that’s 50 the first generation and 500 the next, which will probably be 300 after defection. As you go on you learn from your experiences, constantly refining.”

- It was just an example number, but really, are you saying, that e.g. in America, there are not 300 intelligent, committed persons, who can earn a living and who could move to the same area, and form a community? This is so large topic it would need a separate discussion. Shortly, it don’t just happen. There must be some kind of pre -community community, where all the people know each other, have done and talked with each other so much that they trust each other. Then there must be slow and careful planning, where everything is trained, checked and planned beforehand. There must living in close proximity in smaller scale to see how everything goes. After everything is done, people must pledge to follow the rules and commit to the community. And then it starts, whatever the number.

“In addition, you will stay below the radar until it’s too late. At that stage, you should be able to mobilize the whole community to protest etc, each person secure that they are not going to lose their jobs etc.”

- Well, it is not a secret military community, it is a normal civilized and peaceful community, which somehow lives slightly separately, but anyway takes part in everything that happens in the surrounding area. There is not any reason to stay under radar. Their community’s inside things are their things only, but other than that it is like everybody else.

Posted by a Finn on May 08, 2007, 03:41 PM | #

Second class citizen, in the following address I wrote in the comments department with my less than perfect English something about ethnic genetic goups. If you are interested, go there and read those posts that are underwritten by my name:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/awakenings/

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on May 09, 2007, 03:43 PM | #

As of matter of personal experience, I’ve met hundreds if not thousands of Jews. What struck me most wasn’t ethnocentrism—no; it was that they are by far the most intelligent race on earth.

1) Anecdotes are weak data.

2) IQ does not explain the extent of jewish success, or even half of it, unless the data we have on jewish IQ is way off.

3) Their IQ was preceded by and is owed to their ethnocentrism.

4) Jewish superiority is predicated on deception and is therefore transient; Israel is the exemplar of jewish dependency on the European.

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on May 09, 2007, 03:46 PM | #

5) Ethnocentrism is for me, not for thee, while intelligence is acceptable; ergo, your conclusions are not trustworthy.

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on May 09, 2007, 08:24 PM | #

And it’s difficult to look for evidence of jewish ethnocentrism and not see it all over the place (Holocaustianity, obsession with infinitesmal anti-Semitism, Zionism, jewish studies, organized jewry, the assault on European culture, media’s open season on the south, southerners, and the rural, etc.)

Jewishness is the modern version of Judaism, which IS ethnocentrism.

Good IQ test for jews: tell them they must choose to either end Israel as an Apartheid state or move aside for European ethnostates; see how many fail and respond honestly.

Posted by Top on May 10, 2007, 01:10 AM | #

“Network with like-minded individuals and help them out on a personal level. Share propaganda…”

Have you ever noticed that communists - and jewish people in particular - never use the term ‘propaganda’ when refering to their own arguments, but for some reason Euros, and especially Euro nationalists do it all the time.  It’s almost as if Euros fear what they are saying is somehow not true.  Jews never seem to have this fear and hence never call what they say ‘propaganda’, or state that there is a need to spread ‘propaganda’ - only their enemies do that of course.

For some reason on average, Jews have more ‘natural’ ability to believe and live their arguments than Euros.

I still go back to WW2 on this - where I think Euros where severely psychologically scarred once they realized how much destructive power they had -  enough to wipe each other out.  Nationalistic feelings were mostly buried ever since in order ‘to keep the peace’.  Did Euros even use the term propaganda before the two world wars?

Anyway, the shock of WW2 will wear off at some point.  With non-white demographic momentum, open borders, racial agitation, and anti-white manipulation it’s only a matter of time before the equation changes.  What is the point of ‘keeping the peace’ when your people won’t be around genetically to enjoy it?  Once Euros realize that they are severely threatened demographically they will start seeking answers.  No Jewish media will be able to stop them at that point.

Through the rapid demographic transformations taking place today (unprecedented in human history), our countries are quickly becoming unstable units of organization - more so than communism ever was, MUCH more so!  Most people just have not grasped how recent and fast the changes are.  The demographic changes taking place today are morally evil because they go against everything we know about the human race and its long term health.  The risk is not justfied in any form of rational analysis that is not based on white hatred.

To speak out against this sort of madness is NOT propaganda. It is the responsible thing to do for those who seek a stable earth.

Posted by second class citizen on May 10, 2007, 05:58 AM | #

Top:
“Have you ever noticed that communists - and jewish people in particular - never use the term ‘propaganda’ when refering to their own arguments, but for some reason Euros, and especially Euro nationalists do it all the time.  It’s almost as if Euros fear what they are saying is somehow not true.”

I think the difference is that there is something about the European Nationalist that instinctively likes truth. Propaganda != lies. Propaganda = propaganda.

After all, the whole idea of a racial awakening is to see the world around you as it really is. Once you have reached that point it is natural to want to communicate with our own kind in a truthful way. You can bet that Jews don’t candy coat things when they speak amongst themselves in Hebrew or Yiddish.

Posted by second class citizen on May 10, 2007, 06:43 AM | #

“Good IQ test for jews: tell them they must choose to either end Israel as an Apartheid state or move aside for European ethnostates; see how many fail and respond honestly.”

SI, you’ve intrigued me.

What is the correct answer to your riddle? Obviously, they can’t logically have their cake and eat it too, while maintaining a facade of egalitarianism.

Hmmm. How would I answer it if I were playing their games? This could be fun. There are so many options, and I’ve seen it done so many times! I don’t know if the following is more truth or parody.

First I’d do the bamboozle with the half truth. And go on from there.

J: All you have to do is look at the birthrates of the Palestinians to know that Israel is doomed eventually, so our only chance of maintaining our gift as G-d’s Chosen People is to exist in diaspora, (flung to the winds, forever cursed to be persecuted wherever we travel, chased out and hunted like wretched animals.

Such is the life of the wandering Jew.

) W: But… how do you justify the laws used to keep out the Palestinians from their homeland? J: What laws? (Give a look of incomprehension). Can you point out exactly where it is said that? As far as I know, it’s the only democracy in the Middle East. W: There. J: Why are you using those sources? Everyone knows that that one there has long been discredited, and you aren’t going to use known White Supremacist and Neo-Nazi sources, are you? W: Either provide a genuine refutation or we are ending this discussion. J: You do understand that the Palestinians aren’t a people, don’t you? It was a barren desert before we showed up there. W: BS. There were people there… J: Well, yes, there were a few nomadic sheep herders, but they didn’t claim any particular lands there per se. And they got trapped there when the British arbitrarily chose the borders in the region, and then the other states wouldn’t let them back in. It was the Jewish people who nobly created a country, an oasis with true European ingenuity. And we are the Chosen people, you’ve read the bible haven’t you? That is OUR land, historically. W: (Spends 4 hours digging up evidence that Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from the land by Ben Gurion and co.) There. J: Well, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Look at the world’s population of Jews. It’s vanishingly small, something like 14 million people. Compare that to the hundreds of millions of Arabs, the billions of white people, and the billions of Asians. We’ve got to fight for everything we have. Do you know how tiny Israel actually is? It is beset upon all sides by hordes of people who literally drip hatred for us. They are inculcated in a bizarre death cult to hate us before they even go to school! I can find you footage! And look at how many times the leaders of various neighbors have pledged to wipe us off the map! And you want us to give up that tiny slice of land, the place where we have made the deserts bloom, the only place in the world that is a sanctuary for the original religion that begat both Christianity and Islam? Why stop there? Why not turn us into soap and lampshades while you’re at it? W: You’re evading the question. You can only have one - sanctuary in Israel and European ethnostates or no Apartheid regime in Israel and life in diaspora. Which is it? J: That question is like giving me a revolver with 6 bullets and telling me to put it to my head and pull the trigger. On the one hand, without Jews in diaspora working to spread truth and enlightenment, encouraging a spirit of tolerance and diversity, a new and more efficient Hitler is only a matter of time. If we give up diaspora, eventually the new Hitler will nuke Israel just to provide closure. And if we give up Israel, we give up our religious homeland. And you see, because of the demographic differences it’s only a matter of time before the Palestinian womb overcomes the Israeli womb. Once they have a majority, their government will drive us into the sea. Is that what you want? It’s a f***ing desert, and you would have us give up even that? Even Hitler was kind enough to float the idea of Madagascar, which is approximately a billion times bigger and more hospitable than Israel. What sort of demonic sadist are you? etc. etc. etc.

Posted by awesome on May 10, 2007, 07:04 AM | #

second class citizen,

That was really, really good. I don’t think anyone’s really done that before, but this kind of experimental debate might be incredibly useful as a tool in the struggle. Firstly as a training method to help WNs get a hold of the slimy ‘arguments’ they give. And secondly, as a way of giving material from which to extract a general method of trying to convince people that you’re right.

Clearly, logic and reason aren’t enough to ‘win’ this kind of debate. I suppose there is an abundance of examples in the MSM of this kind of slippery evasion of questions and what not, but in those situations one obviously can’t ask questions back. Showing a dialogue, even if it’s a contrived one, is really quite interesting. A bit of post modernist ‘deconstruction’ you might say.

More more more! Next, do one about the massive mexican influx into america, and see if you can beat the Jew, knowing all his tactics etc.

Posted by second class citizen on May 10, 2007, 07:15 AM | #

A Finn:
I read the post you linked to.

Obviously we are in agreement about a lot of things. Most of all, what is lacking is the elucidation of a pragmatic way forward that most of our people can understand. At the moment most of us default to the Semitically approved methods of fighting the system:
-commit stupid acts of violence and be thrown in jail (American History X)
-play the political shell game and expect to win, without money and MSM support.

In fact, that post and all comments indicates that the quality of MR has increased a lot in the space of a year or so. Very impressive.

Posted by second class citizen on May 10, 2007, 09:51 AM | #

awesome:
Thanks for the praise. I must have been channeling every Jew I’ve either discussed with, debated or read. And Elie Wiesel to boot. In fact, most of the Jewish trolls here and elsewhere are really second rate - I’m certain I could do a better, more infuriating job than most of them.

Jews have hegemony, they have supremacy. They have what is, if you accept egalitarianism, an intrinsically unfair situation. And since they promote egalitarianism to enhance their hegemony, they have a logically indefensible position. Well, it is logically defensible but to defend it you give the game away, defeating the whole purpose of the game.

Thus, the most they can do truth-wise (except among their own kind) is construct an appealing argument out of half truth. That’s it.

So the goal of a discussion with an outsider is from the outset never about the truth. The goal is to promote cognitive dissonance, to obfuscate, to make your opponent waste his time, to lose his train of thought, to change the subject, to persuade with emotional arguments, fallacies et al, to trick your opponent into defending horrible things, to make him shut up (because of fear for reputation or life), to make him not want to hurt your feelings, to make him like you. Indeed, anything but do something practical with his concerns.

When you understand that those (and many more!) are all good outcomes, you can understand the resourcefulness of Jewish argument when it is brought to bear on an inquisitive goy.

The argument itself is fallacious; The goal and execution of the argument is no less logical than a game of chess.

The key point for us to realize is that arguing to convince a Jew of anything that will jeapordize his position (as an ethno-religious group, not individually) of power and control is utter futility. You may as well try and win an argument with a parrot.

The only reason you’d do it is for educational purposes, i.e. to validate what you suspect or know already.

An excellent task I would set for my prototype school curriculum would be to have each student take turns at an argument with different goals, both in person and internet style (written, with time to compose responses). One with the purpose of convincing the opponent or audience of something we know to be true, the other with all the goals I mentioned above.

Also there should be debates on subjects that are genuinely important and where there is no clear answer. That is the style of argument we must make amongst ourselves (and also in the sciences).

I suppose that would be accomplished with most debating practices, however, since most schools do a half assed job and are relativist to boot, they never admit that one side is correct. So for fairness they make sure that there is no right answer in the topics they set, or won’t outright admit it.

Such practice should not be relegated to a “club”, it should be mandatory. When they meet such arguments in real life, they will be prepped.

Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on May 10, 2007, 02:22 PM | #

>i>What is the correct answer to your riddle? Obviously, they can’t logically have their cake and eat it too, while maintaining a facade of egalitarianism.

Lie like a dog (American media is anti-Semitic/anti-Israel).  Play the odds (rely on your audience’s ignorance and naivete).  Deny everything (jews are not a group, Israel is a liberal democracy, etc.).

Special pleading is great too; jews get a pass because they’re the chosen ones (i.e., anti-Semitism, the Holocaust, Dispensationalism, bla bla bla).

Then when the 5 o’clock buzzer sounds you go home, forget everything, and make your opponents start over the next day (Hitler’s comments about jews were spot on here).

P.S., the jew diaspora all lives in America anyway; since realistic American WNs want a place for all the leftist whites and jews to live, utopia-style with their black, brown, red, yellow, and sepia friends…