Gay gene or gay virus?

Posted by jonjayray on February 19, 2005, 09:35 PM | #

I have received the following comment by email:

John,

Here is a possible test. from the few identical twins that i have known over the years, i am told that there is always a dominant and a (comparatively)
submissive twin. this even seems to impact their lifelong relationship. i can’t remember the source now but one of the sociobiologist / evolutionary
psychology people argues that this dominance relationship actually reflects the situation from within the womb. the dominant twin in life was
probably the dominant resource and space users within the womb. so if the in utero hypothesis is correct, there would be a greater propensity for submissive identical twins to be gay.

Posted by Phil Peterson on February 19, 2005, 09:50 PM | #

“I have known several Jews of Lithuanian origin and they look an awful lot like other Lithuanians (very fair) to me.”

I knew a girl at University - blue eyed blonde with an almost perfect figure. Her surname was Clarke.

Then I found out she was Jewish! (I do not of course discriminate between women on purely religious grounds, so this was trivia rather than anything).

Posted by wintermute on February 20, 2005, 03:22 AM | #

  And if homosexuality is caused by an abnormality of fetal brain development—as has often been suggested—poor fetal nutrition generally (including that caused by intra-uterine competition) could be the cause of it.

Nutrition seems less important than maternal stress in the research I have seen, and there also is the interesting fact that male homosexuals tend to be more common, the later they occur in the birth order (counting males). The research which seems most convincing to me involves intra-uterine androgen washes that masculinize the developing brain, which can of course be interrupted or altered by numerous factors.

I will go on record saying that I find the new germ theories wildly unlikely, and am at a loss to explain the tremendous enthusiasm I see for them, given the paucity of evidence. If the memory of youthful indiscretion is still unnerving for certain blogosphere males, then I suggest they blame it on drink or seek absolution through religious means, which are the traditional and time tested - one is tempted to say conservative - means of addressing such blunders.

Endogamy is certainly their law but it is much belied by appearances.  Many Askenazis are of a distinctly Mediterranean appearance but there are also lots who are distinctly Nordic in appearance.

You should send a nice note to godless or razib, they will be happy to explain this process to you. New male Jewish arrivals to a region take local wives, but are careful to preserve and record the existing male lineage. The new hybrid group, after achieving viable size, begins to limit mating to its own number, thus accounting for the twin observed facts that Jews everywhere (as established in many studies) are more related to each other than any are to host populations anywhere, yet also (as you say) tend to resemble their host populations.

This process is already underway in Japan, where I predict it will yield ruinous results, as it has in every other nation on the planet it has been tried. I could be wrong of course - it just might work this time! It only takes a few higher-ups in the press and a few around the prime minister’s office to start speaking simultaneously about how Japan’s ‘racism’ and lack of ‘openness’ tending to make them ‘lose face’ in the eyes of the whole wide world. And visually, there will be nothing to distinguish the parasites disseminating these fatal ideologies from the host. The Prime Minister then leaves his advisors and goes home, where he reads the paper for himself - which, oddly enough, is pushing the same set of ideas. In both cases, those propagating the fatal idea are ‘Japanese’, at least upon visual inspection. A DNA kit and some tissue samples would tell a different story.

MacDonald’s theories regarding predation and crypsis have extraordinary explanatory power, but it is in the matter of prediction where they really shine.

Posted by Pericles on February 20, 2005, 07:50 AM | #

Wintermute,

I cannot understand why you get so exercised about intelligent Ashkenazi people. Surely intelligence is vitally important to the future of humankind. Life is too short to spend one’s existence in self harming rage. You hurt nobody but yourself, because the unrelieved stress eats your body from within. Remember this also, the East Asians are reputed to be more intelligent than we in the West.

As for Hebrew influences in Japan, I think you are about 2,700 years too late. Mike Sanders has a great site, which is very informative.
http://www.biblemysteries.com/library/tribesjapan.htm

It is necessary to keep a sense of perspective. After death there is nothing and everyone is a long time dead. Consider this, you have/had 2 parents, 4 grandparents and 8 great grandparents. Do you know the names of your great grandparents, how long they lived, where they came from? What were their lives like? What were their hopes and fears? Who were they?

Now go forward to the future. Your genetic imput to any great grand children is one sixteenth. They’ll probably not even know your name. It is ridiculous to rant and rage. Relax! whether you like it or not the planet will survive, humans probably not. It’s life Jim, but not as we know it.

In case you are wondering I have 3 sons 22, 16 and 14. I haven’t got a bloody clue what makes them tick. It’s a mystery. They have futures that, barring accidents, are going to be even more interesting than ours. Let them sort it out. They see us as bring old farts who have passed our sell by dates.

Pericles

Posted by Phil Peterson on February 20, 2005, 07:52 AM | #

“This process is already underway in Japan, where I predict it will yield ruinous results”

What percentage of Japan’s population is Jewish?

I would personally be astonished if they got away with this in Japan.

Posted by Fred Scrooby on February 20, 2005, 09:01 AM | #

Wintermute, what would make the Japanese gentile élites so gullible and so vulnerable, in this little scenario?  Those élites looked pretty singleminded and tough in WW II, and in 1895 when they beat the Russians.  So far, the world’s pro-race-replacement misery-loves-company or way-to-subtly-but-oh-so-successfully-commit-genocide-on-your-ethno-racial-enemy-or-rival crowd has been unable to pry open their immigration system and get them launched on the road that leads directly to the Brazilianization of their population with a combination of white-Euro Christians, Mexicans, African Negroes, Chinamen, Koreans, Hindus, Filipinos, and Papua-New-Guineans or whatever the recipe is for the population-stew that Jews like Ben Wattenberg and gentiles like Bill Clinton and George Bush highly recommend (most of the Jews in this bunch recommending it for every country EXCEPT Israel, which they want to keep white and Jewish, but some Jews, like Soros, Chomsky, and one or two who get published in Antiwar.com and The American Conservative magazine, being crazy enough to recommend it for Israel too!). 

What would make these tough, subtle Jap élites cave before transparent crap like that?  Why can’t gentile élites—Japs included—who have two eyes in their head effectively oppose this nonsensical stuff as soon as it starts?  In what other way than this do they just outright slit their own throats?  Why do they here, then?  Yes, some of them are bought off, and yes, some of them are intimidated.  But there remain enough who can’t be bought by anyone, can’t be intimidated by anyone, to mount an effective opposition.  What keeps them from doing so, unless they themselves want this crap too? 

Each gentile ethnicity, race, and ethno-culture is either going to have to produce an élite class that is capable of looking after the group’s ethno-racial and cultural interests or that group will surely go under, doomed to certain extinction which no one can save it from.

Posted by Pericles on February 20, 2005, 10:32 AM | #

As Mohamed won’t go to the mountain the the mountain will have to go to Mohamed.

LOST TRIBES - Japan

ISRAELITES CAME TO JAPAN

Many of the traditional ceremonies in Japan seem to be the traces that the Jews and the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel came to ancient Japan.

Arimasa Kubo

A Japanese Festival Illustrates the Story of Isaac.

In Nagano prefecture, Japan, there is a large Shinto shrine named “Suwa-Taisha” (Shinto is the traditional religion peculiar to Japan.) At Suwa-Taisha, the traditional festival called “Ontohsai” is held on April 15 every year. This festival illustrates the story of Isaac in chapter 22 of Genesis in the Bible, that is, the story that Abraham was about to sacrifice his own son Isaac. The festival “Ontohsai” has been held since ancient days and has been thought of as the most important festival of “Suwa-Taisha.”

Next to the shrine “Suwa-Taisha,” there is a mountain called Mt. Moriya (“Moriya-san” in Japanese). And the people from the Suwa area call the god of Mt. Moriya “Moriya no kami” which means “the god of Moriya.” At the festival, a boy is tied up by a rope to a wooden pillar, and placed on a bamboo carpet. A Shinto priest comes to him preparing a knife, but then a messenger (another priest) comes there, and the boy is released. It reminds us of the story that Isaac was released after an angel comes to Abraham.

At this festival, animal sacrifices are also offered. 75 deer are sacrificed, but among them it is believed that there is a deer with its ears split. The deer is believed to be the one God prepared. It may have some connection with the ram that God prepared and was sacrificed after Isaac was released. Even in historic times, people thought that this custom of deer sacrifice was strange, because animal sacrifice is not a Shinto tradition.

People call this festival “the festival for Misakuchi-god”. “Misakuchi” might be “mi-isaku-chi.” “Mi” means “great,” “isaku” is probably Isaac (the Hebrew word “Yitzhak”), and “chi” is something for the end of the word. It seems that the people of Suwa made Isaac a god, probably by the influence of idol worshipers.

Today, this custom of the boy about to be sacrificed and then released, is no longer practiced, but we can still see the custom of the wooden pillar called “oniye-basira” which means “sacrifice-pillar.”

The Crest of the Imperial House of Japan Is the Same As That Found On Gates of Jerusalem.

The crest of the Imperial House of Japan is a round mark in the shape of a flower with 16 petals (photo right). Today’s shape looks like a chrysanthemum (mum), but scholars say that in ancient times, it rather looked like a sunflower. This is indeed the same shape as the mark at Herod’s gate in Jerusalem. The crest at Herod’s gate also has 16 petals (photo left).

This crest of the Imperial House of Japan has existed since very ancient times, as well as Herod’s gate.

The Star of David Is A Symbol Also Used At Ise-jingu, the Shinto Shrine for the Imperial House of Japan.

Ise-jingu in Mie-pref., Japan, is the Shinto shrine built for the Imperial House of Japan. On both sides of the approaches to the shrine, there are street lamps made of stone. You can see the Jewish Star of David carved on each of the lamps near the top.

The crest used on the inside of the shrine (Izawa-no-miya) at Ise-jingu is also the Star of David. This has existed since ancient times.

In Kyoto pref., there is a shrine called “Manai-jinja” which was the original Ise-jingu Shrine. The crest of “Manai-jinja” is also the Star of David. So, this has been used since ancient times.

Pericles

Posted by Pericles on February 20, 2005, 10:48 AM | #

Interesting site: http://www.doingfreedom.com/gen/0303/autind.html#claire

I rather like “How to carry concealed, where to live to be freest.”

Pericles

Posted by Marc on February 25, 2005, 04:26 PM | #

“I think, however, that he overlooks an important third possibility—inadequate nutrition in utero.”

If this were true, then wouldn’t there be higher rates of homosexuality in poorer countries?  Or even among the lower classes in developed countries?  I can’t recall any studies suggesting either to be the case. 

I sometimes suspect male homosexuality is related in some way to autism.  I say this because a lot of gay men I know have either quasi-autistic traits themselves or family members with autism/asperger’s.

Posted by Darwin's Finch on March 01, 2006, 08:08 PM | #

Evolutionary biologist here, and judging from your post, you don’t understand much about genetics.

The fact is, if one twin is gay, then there is a 50% chance that the other is gay as well.  This is a huge correlation that holds even for twins raised apart.  The correlation between genetically-related brothers and sisters, and the correlation for unrelated siblings, is much lower, indicating that there is indeed a biological, if not necessarily genetic, reason for that. 

However, if homosexual were genetic, the 50% chance can easily be due to a property of genes called “penetrance”.  Penetrance basically measures the effectiveness of a gene to code for a phenotype.  In other words, the gene for homosexuality may have a penetrance of, say, 50%, meaning that if you have the gene for homosexuality, you will have a 50/50 chance of actually expressing it.  Thus, it is perfectly possible that there are straight men and women who have the gene for homosexuality that simply don’t express it.

Penetrance, by the way, is not some hypothetical construct designed to explain twin studies; it is an actual property of genes that code for many different things, including Huntington’s disease.  Cochran is a quack and his pathogenic theory of homosexuality has absolutely no scientific basis behind it.  I’m surprised he is a Biologist considering he has argued that homosexuals leave no offspring; therefore, homosexuality has no evolutionary advantage and must not be a genetic trait.  Any undergraduate in Evolutionary Bio knows about the evolution of altruism and eusociality, two extremely basic concepts that Cochran seems to be completely unaware of.

Posted by gcochran on December 19, 2009, 02:11 PM | #

Bill Hamilton reviewed the paper that, among other things, laid out our ideas on a possible pathogenic cause of homosexuality. He liked the idea: thought it was reasonable. I think he was reasonably familiar with genetic explanations of eusociality and altruism.  Since he invented them.

    You want a copy of the review?

  Gregory Cochran

Posted by Fred Scrooby on December 19, 2009, 03:26 PM | #

“Bill Hamilton reviewed the paper”  (—gcochran)

To any who may not know, Prof. Cochran is talking about the famous scientist William Hamilton of “Hamilton’s Rule”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._D._Hamilton .