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EUROPEAN DEMOCRACYEUROPEAN DEMOCRACY by Constantin von Hoffmeister
European civilization is based on democratic principles. Democracy is not alien to Europeans. As a matter of fact, it is the only form of government which is acceptable to Europeans. Caesar was an aberration (and Brutus committed an heroic deed by killing that tyrant). Historical National Socialism was Jewish in its conception (with the Fuehrer as the Messiah) and hence also an aberration. The French Revolution was a pivotal event in European history. For the first time, Europeans felt united under the banner of liberty. This is why the new Jacobin rule will unite again what belongs together. IN PRINCIPLE, Europeans are not against “the rule of one.” However, if we take into account the iron laws of historical materialism, we soon realize that the history of political struggles in Europe has inevitably led to democracy as the dominant system. Europe had to pass through tribalism, dictatorships and monarchies to achieve the level of liberties it now enjoys. Democracy is the latest stage in the EVOLUTION of European self-emancipation (naturally, ancient Athens was also ruled semi-democratically [considering that half of the population was not allowed to participate in the political process] but true democracy in a wholly European sense, on a large scale, did not exist [ancient Sparta could hardly be labeled a free state]). Hence, both Plato’s ideas of government in antiquity and the Fascist ideas of total mobilization in modernity were anomalies, poor attempts at DEVOLUTION that were bound to fail (since nature knows no way back). The United States of America under Franklin D. Roosevelt was a racialist democracy that both upheld the Nordic (free-thinking, federalist and democratic) standards of liberty and implemented race-advancing measures, such as eugenics and segregation. Not to mention that the US under FDR was pro-White as it valiantly defended White interests (such as the Australians’ ) against the imperialist Japs. In many ways, the Allies DID free Europe from the emergence of a new Dark Age in World War II. The Bolshevik Revolution should be praised. Bolshevism was not a Jewish movement of oppression but a European movement of liberation. The Asiatic yoke of the Tsar was broken. The Tsar, who had ruled with an iron fist and unimaginable brutality like an Asiatic khan over millions of PURPOSELY uneducated serfs with the tacit compliance of the Orthodox Church, was overthrown by the forces of the European Enlightenment (Bolshevism being the direct offspring of this European movement of revolutionary philosophy). Instead of being born into serfdom, the majority of Russians were born into freedom. The Bolsheviks raised the literacy level to unprecedented levels, introduced free health care and schooling and did everything to rid the country of the alien Asian-style caste system. In the Soviet Union, Christianity was confronted with a Paganized Atheism, fused with the mystical glorification of Slavic man. HAIL the Jews who supported this glorious turn of events! the White man bonds
Posted by Constantin von Hoffmeister on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 at 06:14 AM in Comments:2
Posted by Steve Edwards on August 29, 2007, 07:20 AM | # Why is this insane propaganda being spammed onto the pages of Majority Rights? Who is behind it? Is it you, Guessedworker? This is actually a massive step BACKWARDS from the bad old days of JJR, and actually makes me reflect on his infamous one-man blog-wrecking reign with something like nostalgia. 3
Posted by 2R on August 29, 2007, 07:29 AM | # If this is what you think will work to motivate the masses, that fine. I just hope these new Bolshevik’s don’t kill 30 million people while they’re “glorifying White man.” Maybe we should make “anti-semitism” punishable by death too? Let me guess, the 1960’s “civil rights” revolution was a white liberation movement too? Hail the Jewish “freedom riders” as they swept through the South rabble rousing the crud’s of society. You’ll here no arguments from me regarding the whole Nazi thing. It was anti-Slav, and for this, anti-European. AS far as Nietzsche is concerned, some of his work is rather good , some of it confusing. When he said the above regarding the Juden, did he ever ask anyone why the Jews paid such a heavy price during the reconquista? It wasn’t because they were “defending Europe from Asia,” is was the exact opposite. I don’t think we’re going to find an exact model from history for what we’ll become. As long as we all understand the final goal, I don’t care how we get there. We could look like Ghandi’s movement to freedom and I wouldn’t care. The point is, this is the time when history is made, and it should be of great motivation to all men of the Occident knowing that if they can help lead the European people to freedom, that will be part of something much bigger then themselves. They may even be read about in someone else’s history as one of the worlds greatest men? Sometimes myth is even more useful than history. 4
Posted by Guessedworker on August 29, 2007, 08:49 AM | # Steve, Please remember that MR is a forum for discussion of, to quote the header, “issues affecting Western societies”. It is not the spear-point of a single opinion, since no such singularity has evolved. It must evolve, of course, or we will never escape the four horsemen - who, in my opinion and in no particular order, are the global power elite, the liberal zeitgeist, our advancing dispossession and deracination, and Jewish ethnic aggression. Among those who believe in and, by their estimation, work for the survival of European Man are a good number who are singularly anti-semitic. For them, there’s only one horseman. Likewise, there are those who recoil from such advocacy, and hope against all the evidence that Jewry might yet recognise a mutuality of interest with us. Both positions demonstrate the impact of Jewry on what should be the perfect unexceptionality of pro-European ethnic sentiments. One cannot avoid it. The only way forward is to accommodate - but not resolve - the conflict. Accommodation begins with free speech. It demands tolerance, patience and trust in the efficacy of our shared interests. So let those of us with something to say speak freely, and likewise those of us with some objection. We have nothing to fear from Constantin’s freedom of speech, and something to gain from the mental processes it engenders. 5
Posted by Steve Edwards on August 29, 2007, 09:15 AM | # But Constantine doesn’t oppose ANY of your horsemen, GW. He’s a frickin’ Bolshevik for Christ’s sake who, according to Friedrich Braun and other witnesses, is an apologist for the post-war rape (literally so) of Germany. He previously counted “Jerusalem” (or was it Tel Aviv?) as a point in the holy “Occidental Triangle” (???) and claimed that Israel, Russia and Germany were anti-imperial entities. You have unleashed a madman, GW, and if this nonsense isn’t in some way curbed, things will soon become worse than they ever were under JJR’s year-long rampage. Free speech is fine - let “silver” and “birch barlow” support race-replacement to their heart’s desire in the COMMENTS, and yes Constantine should too be allowed to promote the most incoherant ideology since the Enlightenment began in the COMMENTS - but to paraphrase certain “conservatives” in the US, free speech is not a suicide pact. 6
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 29, 2007, 09:31 AM | # On the subject of National Bolshevism (for any newbies reading this, that’s the political philosophy espoused by Constantin), last night Friedrich posted the first installment of an anticipated multi-part overview of it. (Speaking of anticipated articles, Scimitar expects shortly to post a full-length review of Prof. Sunic’s book.) 7
Posted by calvin on August 29, 2007, 10:26 AM | # I don’t agree with Constantin’s analysis of Communism, but I still think that he’s an interesting guy and a colourful character. On the subject of democracy, Aaron Russo (libertarian Jew) made the point in an interview with Alex Jones (Prison Planet), that America was created to precisely NOT be a democracy. The belief of the founders was that 51% of the population dictating to 49% of the population was just another form of tyranny (two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner) and that is why America was founded as a constitutional republic. It occurs to me that in the UK our personable liberties owe far more to the English common law than they do to democracy, of course, politicians will always promote the idea that politics is the only means of salvation because that’s how they make their living. 8
Posted by Byron the Bulb on August 29, 2007, 11:01 AM | # Steve Edwards is right. Constantine does make one nostalgic for the days of JJR, something I thought impossible. 9
Posted by 2R on August 29, 2007, 11:22 AM | # “It must evolve, of course, or we will never escape the four horsemen - who, in my opinion and in no particular order, are the global power elite, the liberal zeitgeist, our advancing dispossession and deracination, and Jewish ethnic aggression.” I agree with this statement. Even if we are to conclude that the Jews are the reason for the situation we face, we must at least admit that there’s some inherent weakness that allowed the Jews to take advantage of us to begin with. As Macdonald pointed out, in the Middle East, the Jews were never able to gain the amount of power as they did in the West. This means ultimately that we are to blame for our issues. In order for there to be a successful “lobby,” there requires a “lobbied” to give in. The Muslims would never sell their people out to the degree that Western leaders have. In other words, if I live in a house with my family. And I make a deal with a burglar in which I leave the back door unlocked so he can steel our stuff, who is my family going to be more mad at, the burglar or me? Of coarse, they’re going to blame me because my family is supposed to be able to trust me. Burglars steal for a living, but family is supposed to be loyal. When it comes time for the political activism portion of our movement, I’m a believer that Jews should be treated as anyone else who wishes to replace us. What difference does it make if its Alan Dershowitz or Sean Hannity calling you a Nazi and telling your children to race mix? This does not mean that we should ignore the JQ, it just mean for purposes of politically practicality that we shouldn’t go out in the street and yell “JEWS, IT’S THE JEWS!!!!” Jews are facing many of the same issues that we face. For this reason, I can see a time when the Jews may change their tune regarding WN. However, they can’t have their cake and eat it too, so they’ll have to make a decision at some point. 10
Posted by Bo Sears on August 29, 2007, 04:56 PM | # The most amusing thing about Constantin von Hoffmeister is that he represents the far end of one of the axes haunting this web site. One axis, for example, is to be found situated among the wistful plaints for the conservative part of the Conservative/Liberal political order. But the most interesting axis is the one that runs from the pure world of ideas and ideological musings that are completely detached from any sense of worldly applications [like libertarian doctrines], on the one hand, to those posters who are imbued with a sense that we somehow need to attach intellectual preoccupations to the field of action in the real world with real people, on the other hand. Constantin von Hoffmeister represents the far end of that axis in that nothing whatsoever he says has anything to do with anything on the ground, and so he may be enjoyed as an amusing swimmer through the froth of the waves of memes crashing on the shores around us. He can’t hurt us because he has no linkage to any tools, tactics, or techniques that would bridge the gap between ideas and worldly activity. Consider him the mutant hero of the web site, like Superman. 11
Posted by Scimitar on August 29, 2007, 05:53 PM | #
Constantin, I’m not going to pile on here, but honestly, what are you thinking? The Soviet Union was the world center of anti-racism for 70 years. The triumph of anti-racism throughout the West is largely attributable to communist influence, Jewish and Gentile. Here in the United States, it was the mischief that the Soviets were making about “racism” in America in the Third World that caused the U.S. federal government under Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy to start supporting desegregation. 12
Posted by JB on August 29, 2007, 07:30 PM | #
oh my, this entry should be deleted ASAP. GW, is the Puffmeister going to be a regular and post his insane ramblings every week ? It would almost - almost - make me miss the days of John Jay Ray. JJR argued in bad faith but at least he was somewhat coherent and grounded in reality. This decision of yours is a red flag for me. This is not how you’ll attract more readers. GW
of course but can’t you show better judgement at selecting the voices that you choose to publish? Come on. I’ve read saner and more mature commentaries in the pages of Trotskyists university rags. And besides this blog shouldn’t have too many entries. Sometimes less is more. Scimitar:
don’t feed the nationalfuturistobolshevistroll 13
Posted by Guessedworker on August 29, 2007, 08:14 PM | # JB, Let Constantin function. Soren’s interview with him was very sound. But here’s a guy who is (like Kai Murros, who also gave Soren a common-sense interview) pro-Marxist yet also a member of the NPD. He is, by stock WN standards, a complex and contradictory figure. But the European right is quite unlike American white racial activism, and encompasses a vastly greater range of political cultures, histories and aspirations. I am keen to bring some flavour of it to the blog. Of course, Constantin is a controversial figure. I think he likes the theatre of the controversial. He is a poet, after all. Make him answer wherever you think he errs. For example, Jerusalem as a corner of a new imperium is mighty nonsensical while there is a diaspora pushing against our interests. He can’t just ignore the diaspora. So what does he propose for it? And yes, while Bolshevism was a child of the European Enlightenment (Marx himself said, “We are all Hobbes’ children”) it was also unrepresentatively Jewish. Why, if not for the reasons of ethnic advantage? And what does Constantin think of the creation of Frankfurt Marxism, which has become the template for advanced liberalism, and done such grave damage throughout the West? Let’s hope we have some answers from the man tomorrow. Then we can form a better judgement. 14
Posted by oops on August 29, 2007, 08:48 PM | # Ziv Edwards and CvH and Soren Renner’s time-wasting! There’s only so much swimming through shit people are prepared to do for the occassional very good stuff, GW. 15
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 29, 2007, 10:19 PM | # I know “Oops” is not “GnXp Stinks” and a few others who’ve posted here, he’s not them, not at all, I know he’s not, but if he were — and please note that this is a hypothetical: I said if he were, not he is (I’m absolutely one-hundred-percent certain he’s not, so it’s only a wild hypothetical — I might just as well be positing “Oops” is Abraham Lincoln, Julius Caesar, or Jesse James) — I’d say to him that broadening the appeal of the site in general strengthens the voices of all its participants if only by making their own views known to the wider audience that will by definition result. Hunkering down in an ideologically-pure monoview fortress, sort of defying others to approach as you give them tight-lipped stern warning of stringent conditions on their participation when they do try to come near is going to advance the dissemination of your own ideas less than taking part in a more relaxed polyview effort that will draw way more onlookers and partakers. Think what a major site GnXp would be by now if GC hadn’t banned everyone like us. The thing would be HUGE. And there’s what GW alludes to (which came up also when JJR was here) to the effect that debate rather than suppression as the way to deal with difference is didactic and has the potential more quickly to turn the merely curious into the firmly convinced. Look, I was so shocked at certain things in this present log entry by CvH I knew immediately on first reading it wasn’t something I could respond to: you can respond to difference but not very well to enormity — when faced with enormity you have to write a book — and this piece is full of enormity. I knew on first reading (first skimming, actually: skimming was enough) that I’d just sit back and enjoy the fireworks on this one without participating because although one has strength to respond, one’s strength isn’t infinite and infinite strength would be needed here. That CvH is confused is glaringly, just blindingly evident — either that or somehow he sees no need for consistency, for one thing, or even for repect for basic historical fact and other basic elements necessary in order to turn out good writing of this genre. But there’s also lots in him that’s outstandingly good. I say welcome him and, for those with the strength, respond to him. Permitting a variety of expression puts us more in touch with our brethren in the anti-race-replacement world and puts them more in touch with us. The Cause needs to grow and solidify. Don’t turn down legitimate variety in the name of more narrow ideological purity: when this thing is finally won it will not have been by a single ideologically-pure faction fighting all all alone but by all factions acting together in alliance. Let’s win the war first. We can sort out the differences between us after. (And yes I know what’s coming now, “You, Scroob, are exactly one of the double-digit regulars who are dragging this site down the tubes with your ‘brilliant’ comments that are outshone by Koko the talking gorilla’s sign-language and 75 IQ.” I know that’s coming so go ahead, get it off your chest.
I’ll just mention that Soren’s Majority Radio interviews caused this site’s Alexa.com traffic to shoot way up between January when they started and late Spring when they stopped, according to my interpretation of the Alexa charts. 16
Posted by Steve Edwards on August 29, 2007, 10:37 PM | # “And yes, while Bolshevism was a child of the European Enlightenment (Marx himself said, “We are all Hobbes’ children”) it was also unrepresentatively Jewish. Why, if not for the reasons of ethnic advantage?” Shouldn’t we have thought of that before we published a declared Bolshevik on these pages? “And what does Constantin think of the creation of Frankfurt Marxism, which has become the template for advanced liberalism, and done such grave damage throughout the West? Let’s hope we have some answers from the man tomorrow. Then we can form a better judgement.” I await that moment with trepidation. Do you really expect a sensible answer out of this? Constantine’s apologists have already conceded that he is confused, illogical and unhinged. But they want to promote his stuff anyway. Is that really how far we’ve fallen? 17
Posted by Friedrich Braun on August 29, 2007, 10:40 PM | # “He is, by stock WN standards, a complex and contradictory figure. “ Hoffmeister is not a “complex” figure. He’s a buffoon and a provocateur…in essence a joker. He’s a narcissist who above everything else craves attention. He’s not a serious thinker, he doesn’t have a following (beyond Soren), and he doesn’t represent a current of thought anywhere in Europe…or on Mars. He’s basically a drug-addled, bohemian weirdo…a gypsy who has spent most of his adult life leading an aimless existence in exile…mooching from his parents….in the U.S., Russia…perhaps he’ll eventually move to an Israeli kibbutz or join the I.D.F. But I doubt it…that would mean taking his crazed ramblings seriously. Btw, the second part of my article on Strasser is up: Strasser and National Bolshevism [2] http://www.thecivicplatform.com/2007/08/29/strasser-and-national-bolshevism-2/ 18
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 29, 2007, 11:50 PM | # On the subject of European democracy, I was just reading how the Belgian high court today disappointingly upheld Mayor Thielemans’ ban on that planned demonstration in protest against the current deliberate Islamization of the European continent (in what follows, watch the words highlit in red):
Then there was this (hat tip to The Civic Platform):
And finally, there was this:
(The reader is invited to draw his own conclusions at to Mr. Bukovsky’s ... prescience, in regard to ... “the future of European democracy,” shall we call it? ... Yes ... in regard to the future of European democracy ...) 19
Posted by oops on August 30, 2007, 12:19 AM | # I went away and wondered if I was too quick to dismiss MR v.4.0 because of von Hoffmeister, the return of Ziv Edwards,, and Renner’s deliberate, habitual abuse of goodwill. There IS much good here, after all - principally in the comments or the blogs from Bowery and GW. But then I remembered the support from a central MR pillar for Judicial Inc the photoshoppers of Jewish conks and purveyor of conspicuously unconvincing theories on the JQ (and I’m at the wintermute end of the scale there). Recalling this tipped the balance for me! At worst a joke being played here, at best someone has fallen asleep at the wheel. Certainly, the slide is too extreme to ignore. I work hard for a living, I have a family, and I already choose to spend quite a lot of time educating myself on MR’s avowed issues. At the moment other sites reward that time better. I’m not alone in thinking the trend at MR is not good: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=majorityrights.com I’m only saying what I know many others are thinking GW. Edwards, Renner, and Hoffmeister ffs! Let the mainstream be ‘challenged’ by those comic voices. 20
Posted by Constantin von Hoffmeister on August 30, 2007, 02:42 AM | # Considering that Bolshevism was an urban movement, and Jews represented 30% of the urban population in Russia, one could argue that Jews were actually underrepresented in the Bolshevik regime. I do not buy the propganda that Bolshevism was “genocidal.” This claiem has been sufficiently debunked by scholars that do not subscribe to Cold War propaganda. I also do not believe that decadent cultural “Marxism” in the West is the equivalent of what the Soviets practiced in the East. As a matter of fact, it is the exact opposite! I explained this many times in many of my writings. Hence, I see no contradiction in being a member of the NPD and supporting Bolshevism. After all, the NPD published many favorable articles on Ernst Niekisch who was a National Bolshevik, jailed in the Third Reich and a high-ranking party functionary in the German Democratic Republic. About Frankfurt Marxism: I never praised it, even though it has some value, and the members of the Warsaw Pact certainly never practiced it. Essentially, Frankfurt Marxism was a Western and liberal perversion of Marxism. Besides, I am not a Marxist. Constantin 21
Posted by a Finn on August 30, 2007, 04:03 AM | # Constantin reminds me of Finnish pro-Soviet communists, who had a fantasy mental image of Soviet Union, but Constantin is crazier and further removed from reality. When said pro-Soviets visited Soviet Union, they were shown the best sides there. It was awful and horrible. The most of them changed their views considerably, but many of them tried to preserve leftism in some other form. Some of them tried to painfully pretend they didn’t saw what they saw. Some accepted what they saw, but they blamed Western capitalists for all the negative sides. Anyway, European Americans, what I have seen about the new European Americans United seems to be good. Besides good theories and news service, there seems to be dynamic approach to activism, thus turning theories into practice. It might be advantageous to join it. Here is the newest article from John Young. Although Europe has never been such that it can be described like single entity (And it is equally hard to discern European details from America than the other way around), I generally agree with Young: 22
Posted by Alex Zeka on August 30, 2007, 06:35 AM | # re: Hoff’s answers to our many questions for him. Here’s a sample of what we got the last time he did that: ““Do you think killing Europeans is a good way to liberate them?” No, I do not. But the Nazis here sure do. “When I hear or read the word “universal,” I want to get my pistol.” Wow! You are real modern-day Goering, are you not? “You call Marxism an ideology with “universal appeal”. Could you say to whom this appeal is directed?” Not to chauvinist nationalists, obviously. “seeing that National Futurism is seemingly more of a spiritual than political movement (toward the stars!), how do we get this spiritual impulse to space chasing and terra forming into the actual political debate?” National Futurism is anti-spiritual. It advocates Racial Bolshevism, pure materialism. Only on the material plane can anything be achieved. Space colonization and terra-forming are not “crazy” subjects but valid considerations that have to be earnestly addressed if one cares at all about the future dominance of the White race. For example, one could point out the real danger of a meteorite hitting Earth, wiping out most life forms on it in the process. To avoid the scenario of extinction (through a “natural genocide”), it is essential that alternative worlds be found where our race can settle. “Will Germany and Russia go it alone?” This will be necessary in the first stage. Other European countries will follow once the path has been cleared. German discipline and technology, coupled with Russia’s natural resources, will be the pillars of the future Euro-Russian empire. “Will they despair of the Anglo Saxons and the Latins?” The Anglo-Saxons and the Latins will be forced to comply with the demands of the empire. Otherwise, they will perish, meaning that they will be absorbed into the imperial matrix. First, it will be a Eurasian empire. This is necessary to build up strength. Slowly but surely, it will morph into a cosmic Imperium Europa. After all, biopolitics is more important than geopolitics. BLOOD before SOIL! Aryan seeds will be carried to far-away planets where they can blossom and grow into biological super-structures that will control and harness alien environments and be themselves enhanced by transhuman advances in technology. “ Remember everyone, NB is an ideology with universal appeal, an appeal obvious to all but ‘chauvinists’ like ourselves, which advocates the advancement of Aryan interests by killing Ukrainians, creating a ‘Eurasian Empire’, and raping the queen with a chainsaw. It appreciates the anti-imperial ambitions of the USSR and Nazi Germany (because killing Ukrainians is the best way to liberate them, see above). It moreover supports the forming of an anti-Zionist alliance with Israel (because the Jews just wanna get killed so as to be liberated, and we want to stop that…presumably). This Bolshevism also supports anarcho-capitalism…oh, and Soviet Communism. I know this is suppossed to be a free speech site, but can’t GW just get himself a parrot, teach him the words ‘bolshevism’, ‘Jews’, ‘liberation’, ‘national’ and the other bare rudiments of a political vocabulary, and post the results instead? 23
Posted by Constantin von Hoffmeister on August 30, 2007, 08:17 AM | # Who was talking about killing Ukrainians? I certainly was not. Constantin 24
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 30, 2007, 09:05 AM | # The “Ziv Edwards” gibe is just complete nonsense and can be utterly dismissed. For lots of reasons “Oops” can be forgiven much, but this particular bit pushes the envelope. It’s close to an outrage. 25
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 30, 2007, 09:10 AM | # Completely apart from the fact that the target of that gibe hasn’t procreated with anyone (as if that would be anyone’s business if he had), opposition to forced race-replacement is not about individuals but about numbers and the policies that bring those numbers about. 27
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 30, 2007, 09:51 PM | # Scimitar comments on the log entry over at the Occidental Dissent blog:
28
Posted by calvin on August 31, 2007, 04:44 AM | # “Considering that Bolshevism was an urban movement, and Jews represented 30% of the urban population in Russia, one could argue that Jews were actually underrepresented in the Bolshevik regime” Yeah, yeah! First you start with a false premis and then you take it from there. Organized popular rebellion aginst authority is NOT an urban phenomenon. Spartacus’s revolt took place in the provinces and there were numerous peasant revolts in medieval Europe. Social agitation in Russia’s urban conurbations was a consequence of the gravitation of social agitators towards centers of power and influence that happen, in this case, to have been urban. That’s the best horse before cart argument I’ve heard for a long time, it’s a bit like saying that a disproportionate ammount of sexual abuse happens in childrens homes because a disproportionate number of abusers work in the child protection industry, duh! 29
Posted by Alex Zeka on August 31, 2007, 05:27 AM | # “Who was talking about killing Ukrainians? I certainly was not. “ Touch of amnesia, dear? Can you perchance remember writing this: The Jews were certainly overrepresented in the Soviet government. But this fact is utterly irrelevant and meaningless. These brave Jews divorced themselves from their reactionary religion and embraced European socialism (Russian Bolshevism), thus automatically becoming honorary Aryans. Hence, the Bolshevik Jews were not bad Jews but good Europeans (in the Nietzschean sense as like all true overmen they overcame their own former selves, morphing into something new, noble and self-sacrificing)… Only traitors to Europe do not appreciate the hard work that they did for the betterment of our race. The accomplishments of the Jewish Bolsheviks will always be remembered by any self-respecting European patriot. http://nationalfuturism.org/jewishliberation.html These would be the Jewish Bolsheviks who ran the ultra-repressive cheka, liquidated the kulaks (prosperous Slav farmers), and confiscated food in the Ukraine. Apparently, these activities turned them into liberators and honorary Aryans, which naturally led to the question of whether killing Ukrainians is a good way to liberate them or not. Your reply was to accuse us of being Nazis. We aren’t - few here glorify Hitler - but you certainly do glorify the even more murderous Bolshevik regime. 30
Posted by Constantin von Hoffmeister on August 31, 2007, 05:41 AM | # So, you interpret this passage of my essay as justifying the murder of Ukrainians? How do you do that exactly? I cannot follow your logic. Constantin 31
Posted by Daryl on August 31, 2007, 05:55 AM | # Though socialism is not the only way to secure the borders, a logical and rational argument can be made that it had that effect. Stalin did not have massive immigration coming into his country. We can view similar trends in the Orient, Mao did not have an immigration problem. The Khmer Rouge, for example, cut down liberal education and reversed Vietnamese imperialism. This is not to say that I am embracing socialism, but I can comprehend Constantin’s viewpoint. I see Fade has noted that Constantin has posted on my forum and used that as a smear. 32
Posted by a Finn on August 31, 2007, 09:10 AM | # Daryl wrote: “Though socialism is not the only way to secure the borders, a logical and rational argument can be made that it had that effect. Stalin did not have massive immigration coming into his country. We can view similar trends in the Orient, Mao did not have an immigration problem. The Khmer Rouge, for example, cut down liberal education and reversed Vietnamese imperialism. This is not to say that I am embracing socialism, but I can comprehend Constantin’s viewpoint.” - Soviet leaders implemented what they talked. They first encouraged the many peoples especially near the borders to pursue their ethnic nationalistic interests in socialistic framework, lying to them that they are building their own autonomous and after some time maybe independent ethnic socialist nations. This was meant to exploit peoples’ natural ethnic nationalist tendencies in building Soviet international communism. After some time Soviet leaders started to increase foreigner inflow to the ethnic areas. When ethnicities were flooded with foreigners, single Soviet standards, language, school systems, media etc. were implemented. Then mass murders and concentration camp sentencies followed. The purpose was from the beginning to create non-racial, non-ethnic, mixed homo sovieticus. Partly autonomous Eastern European countries were given some possibilities to pursue their ethnic interests while the ongoing battle with the Western countries was not complete. When communism would have been victorious in Europe the borders would have been dissolved, and the consequences would have been the same than inside the Soviet Union. What is not mixed in today’s Russia is that despite the utmost efforts of Soviet leaders. China, Cambodia and North Koreans have been more ethnic nationalistic. China had and still in some form has racial laws, and North-Koreans has them in full force. That doesn’t make those murderous failed systems desirable. Genocide is genocide, whether done by mixing, bullets, hanging, hunger etc. 33
Posted by Maguire on August 31, 2007, 09:56 AM | # GW, “or we will never escape the four horsemen - who, in my opinion and in no particular order, are the global power elite, the liberal zeitgeist, our advancing dispossession and deracination, and Jewish ethnic aggression.” I agree. And all, all, are advancing with excellent speed under Vladimir Putin’s Judeo Grand Duchy of Muscovy. “global power elite” Take a plane direct from JFK International in New York to Sheremetievo II in Moscow, and keep your eyes wide open on both ends. The differences in the present reality and trending future direction are too minor to be worth discussing. “the liberal zeitgeist” This is a product of assessing and accepting men based on the amount of paper money in their hot little fists. Zeitgeist advancing with lightspeed in Moscow. “our advancing dispossession and deracination” This is accomplished by creeping genetic infiltration. Repeat, start in Central Asia - Kazakhstan will do fine - then travel north-westwards by train and see if anything strikes your eyes as you progress from station to station. “Jewish ethnic aggression.” A casual stroll through and inquiry into the personalities inside the Moscow offices of power will disabuse anyone of “Russian Nationalist” illusions, assuming one knows what a Jew looks like to start with. “Constantin von Hoffmeister represents the far end of that axis in that nothing whatsoever he says has anything to do with anything on the ground” This is distilled essence of CvH. The Russia and Eastern Europe he’s describing could only have been sighted while under the influence of hallucinogens. Limonov does it better in eXile milieu. And Solzhenitsyn’s description of Limonov as “a little insect who writes pornography” is not without application here, too. To CvH, In my case you aren’t addressing someone who just reads about Russia, or who only knows it from looking once through a tour bus window on the 5 cities in 6 days trip. So let’s cut to the chase, old boy. Oil, natural gas and raw materials prices have gone up a lot in the last 10 years. This has led to a larger concentration of paper money in regional shipping centers for such resources, of which Moscow is one. This in turn has attracted an international migration of flea market peddlers *to* Moscow to try to grab some of this paper stash for themselves. You can see them disembarking every flight into Sheremetievo II from NYC, London and Jerusalem. Some sell laptops, some sell BMWs and H3 Hummers, some bring Sbarro pizza franchises from NYC to Moscow, and some are after dinner author/speaker entertainers. This latter group includes folks such as yourself and Israel Shamir. The mystical madman prophet is a well established archetype in Russian literature and now on the TV talk show circuit. “Considering that Bolshevism was an urban movement, and Jews represented 30% of the urban population in Russia, one could argue that Jews were actually underrepresented in the Bolshevik regime.” Of course one can ‘argue’ this. You can argue the Earth is flat, too. The Flat Earth Society lives! I think there are two reasons you want to argue this now. The most important reason is the current regime in Moscow is Judeo, just as I’ve described it in detail recently. And you want to curry favor with them for petty pecuniary reasons. The people you are trying to cultivate for shekels are the Russian analog of the Limbaughtomized Judeo-Republican. The second reason is the police state conditions that now exist across most of the EU. The average European participant at conferences like Ateney could be jailed back home just for reading 1919 newspaper reports aloud from a rostrum, let alone for suggesting something like non-whites have no business immigrating into France or anywhere else in ‘Europe’. “I do not buy the propganda that Bolshevism was “genocidal.”” Are you so unfamiliar with “Russia” you need help getting in contact with “Memoriale”? Let me know and I’ll get you hooked up. If anyone really wants to know what’s happening in ‘Moscow’, go. Short of that, I’ll tell you. They have their heads stuck up their cell phones and iPods. They’re sitting in gridlocked rush hour traffic. They’re down at the bank applying for Visa cards to go shopping at the Hyper Market, and for mortgages to buy flats in new gated and walled condo buildings that’ll be falling apart in five years. Or for new suburban tract houses identical to what’s thrown up here in the USA. They’re ordering home delivery Sbarro Pizza and they’re busy buying paper ‘investments’ to try to substitute in their old age for not having enough children. They’re making internet holiday reservations for hotel resorts in Greece, Turkey, Cyprus & Egypt. They’re getting scheduled for plastic surgery and getting prescriptions filled for Viagra. And sometimes a very few go to hear entertaining virtual reality speakers of the kind AMREN and Ateney organize. There is even a strong overlap between the programs, as occurs at AMREN & Ateney meets. Money however is much tighter than at the casinos, hypermarkets and DVD kiosks. So it’s necessary for vendors like CvH and David Duke to mutually discredit each other. Maguire. 34
Posted by Fred Scrooby on August 31, 2007, 09:56 AM | # Finn:
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Posted by Constantin von Hoffmeister on August 31, 2007, 10:05 AM | # “If anyone really wants to know what’s happening in ‘Moscow’, go. Short of that, I’ll tell you. They have their heads stuck up their cell phones and iPods. They’re sitting in gridlocked rush hour traffic. They’re down at the bank applying for Visa cards to go shopping at the Hyper Market, and for mortgages to buy flats in new gated and walled condo buildings that’ll be falling apart in five years. Or for new suburban tract houses identical to what’s thrown up here in the USA. They’re ordering home delivery Sbarro Pizza and they’re busy buying paper ‘investments’ to try to substitute in their old age for not having enough children. They’re making internet holiday reservations for hotel resorts in Greece, Turkey, Cyprus & Egypt. They’re getting scheduled for plastic surgery and getting prescriptions filled for Viagra.” I live in Moscow, and I know what is happening here. Your description only applies to Muscovites with money. These kind of Muscovites are in the minority. Besides that, your description is correct. That is precisely why the Soviet system was superior to the current decadent capitalist one. Constantin 36
Posted by a Finn on August 31, 2007, 10:50 AM | # Fred, thanks for the addition and many others too. Horror from Sweden. Swedes, you need independence and separation from your state: http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=3031&cid=3&sid=102 37
Posted by Guessedworker on August 31, 2007, 03:17 PM | # There was a story I picked up someplace - TV maybe, but long ago anyway - about a Westerner who, in traveling to some far-flung corner, had encountered a tribe living an entirely traditional life. Being conscious of his own craven ways, the Westerner was wildly impressed with this. At some point a tribesman he had befriended was making a fire by the time-honoured fashion. Our Westerner showed him how he made fire by striking a match. The tribesman was wildly impressed with this. “No, no,” said the Westerner, gesticulating as negatively as possible, “no good. This ...” he said, pointing at the tribesman’s primitive method, “... g-o-o-d. The tribesman looked at him as though he was crazy, and snatched the matches out of his hand. “G-o-o-d!” he said. Constantin, The leisure instinct is the same as the survival instinct, all of a half-a-minute after survival is secured. Lions sleep, dolphins leap. We book a trekking holiday in the Himalayas, with steaming hot showers and a little mood music over the baked turbot au gratin and perfectly chilled Laville Haut Brion. It isn’t surprising that people choose to gorge on leisure and luxury. Societies like the Soviet Union that cannot furnish the people with such, but on the contrary pin them down forever in a desperate struggle to find enough decent food to fill their bellies, are failures. The trick, which very few societies have thus far pulled off, is to succeed yet maintain a certain critical sense. Among the wealthy, something like this might be observed even now as good taste - which by definition is never excess. 38
Posted by JB on September 01, 2007, 01:10 PM | # Hoffmeister:Only traitors to Europe do not appreciate the hard work that they did for the betterment of our race. The accomplishments of the Jewish Bolsheviks will always be remembered by any self-respecting European patriot.
There’s no difference between some dope smoking Che Guevara t-shirt wearing college student writing for a communist rag, taking Lenin and Trotsky seriously and writing pro-soviet poetry and someone like CvH. What are they good for ?? Who’s going to be attracted by their persona and their opinions ?? And I feel like I’m wasting my time writing this at the moment, I should be doing something else than to tell you what is obvious. GW maybe you spend too much time working on the blog. There’s no need to post stuff everyday regardless of its relevance. Don’t forget that your current regular readers already know what is going on and if your goal is to attract more readers and unplug more normal white people from the matrix then the last thing you need is completely pointless debates based on CvH’s opinions or those of other nutty philosophers/dreamers who create those ready-to-think ideological kits sold to us as the key to saving the European race. We don’t need ideologies and especially not the puerile Marinetti-esque ones, all we need is our people to become white again, to think white and to act white. GW:
he didn’t asked him any serious questions. The guy praises the bolshevik revolution and all the misery, the destruction and the deaths it caused. WHY PAY ANY ATTENTION TO HIM TO BEGIN WITH ??? WHY PAY ANY ATTENTION TO HIM TO BEGIN WITH ? You should have asked yourself that question and answered it before deciding to publish this crap. When I first read CvH on VNN I thought that’s it, Linder will just publish anything whatever the quality because he’s some freespeechist. The incoherence, the rigidity, the pointlessness, the nuttyness. Why did I spent 5 minutes reading that? It wasn’t even worth 30 seconds! I should have dismissed it after 10 seconds. Is this how you want the newbies to feel when they visit MR for the first time ? Why did I just read that nonsense ? it wasn’t worth 5 minutes of my time
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Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 01, 2007, 05:20 PM | # Here‘s a 1984 interview with a Soviet KGB defector named Yuri Bezmenov. (Hat tip to “VLC” over at the Occidental Dissent blog). Listening to it in its entirety should 1) make certain scales fall from CvH’s eyes, scales blinding him to a few aspects of the real nature of Jewish-Russian Bolshevism (CvH, listen well to the latter half, where this man talks about what the KGB thought of its useful idiots in the West: that’s you, in your blindness to Bolshevism’s real nature); 2) make it easer to see how the NSDAP had absolutely no alternative to “taking the gloves off” and getting tough in dealing with its own useful idiots or coming up with its own vigorous anti-Judæo-Bolshevik psy-ops propaganda tools to counter those which Judæo-Bolshevism had methodically subjected Germany to for nearly two decades by that point (late thirties); 3) make it easier to see that this entire race-replacement régime we’ve been subjected to, which began during WW II, went into a brisk trot after the war with moves by the other side such as having explicit race-denier Ashley Montagu write the official UNESCO policy on (what else?) race (1950), which only the blind suppose was some sort of accident, accelerated to a canter during the ‘60s with all that we know happened then, and has been going at a full gallop since something like the mid-80s when this interview took place — make it easier to see that this entire race-replacement régime is something deliberate and carefully planned which is being methodically imposed, not at all happening by itself. At the interview’s end Bezmenov offers advice on how the Bolshevik threat of those years (mid-80s) could be countered, advice which was, it turned out, exactly identical to the approach being taken at that very moment by Reagan and Thatcher standing shoulder-to-shoulder, the approach which brought communism in Europe crashing down. So this guy knew whereof he spoke, one could say ... In like manner we’ll bring forced race-replacement crashing down, Constantin, but it won’t be by means of National Bolshevism any more than it was by that means the Gipper and Maggie brought down National Bolshevism’s infernal twin. 40
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 01, 2007, 08:24 PM | # Have a look at a few excerpts from the recent Fjordman piece which Finn linked above (2:50 PM), commenting on advanced Swedish liberalism:
The piece is worth reading in its entirety. Caution: have plenty of Maalox, Rolaids, or other antacids handy and oh yes, if possible some tranqilizers — that or a few ounces of whiskey to swallow, round about the middle of the piece, I estimate, with a few more toward the end —four or five ounces ought to do it, total. Once you’ve got all that ready, you’re set to go ahead and start reading! 41
Posted by WLindsayWheeler on September 01, 2007, 11:55 PM | # “European civilization is based on democratic principles.” European civilization is NOT based on democratic principles! Who said this? where is this? What is the “Roman republic”? a democracy? What is the Spartan republic? a democracy? Politeias/republics were created in Europe and existed longer than democracy! during and after the Dark ages, Europe’s main government was autocracy, monarchy, not democracy. It is democracy that is destroying Europe and America! Republics, the Spartan and English Commonwealth, is based on the specific Indo-European trait of Trifunctionality—the research of Dumezil!!! Republics are the manifestation of Trifunctionality! Europe had its greatest civilization such as the Hapsburgs and Victorian culture under Monarchy (or classical republicanism)—-not democracy! Here is a description of the The Spartan Republic. 42
Posted by desmond jones on September 02, 2007, 12:50 AM | # Also of interest from the Fjordman article;
It appears that Swedish media is heavily influenced by the Bonnier Group. The Bonniers are ... Jewish.
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Posted by desmond jones on September 02, 2007, 12:55 AM | # According to Wiki, Helle Klein is “currently on leave on absence as she is studying to become apriest in the Church of Sweden.” Go figure. 44
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 02, 2007, 05:49 AM | # Thanks to advanced liberalism it’s no longer a church in any sense of the word, Desmond, so there would appear to be no inconsistency. It’s like the Unitarians, once a genuine branch of Christianity, today offering workshops on polyamory at their yearly meetings. They’re no longer a religion. 45
Posted by Steve Edwards on September 02, 2007, 06:54 AM | # Guessedworker. On an earlier thread you thanked me “for the favour” I did you with regards to John Ray. I took that to mean that my hounding of John Ray had some effect (however small and indirect) on him leaving this blog, and that this was a good thing. As John Ray was a destructive and unserious individual, an explicit supporter of race-replacement, and even an apologist for the Islamisation of Britain, I can only say “you’re welcome”. But now, you are sponsoring someone who praises the Bolshevik Revolution. They have been elevated to the front pages of Majority Rights. You are defending their work. Is this your way of telling us you’ve learnt nothing from the John Ray affair? 46
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 02, 2007, 06:54 AM | # A first-rate log entry by Scimitar over at the Occidental Dissent blog. Read it, folks. That’s all I can say. No, I offer no “teaser” excerpts: a teaser excerpt in this case would have to be the whole thing, it’s all so good. 47
Posted by Alex Zeka on September 02, 2007, 07:10 AM | # The Jews were certainly overrepresented in the Soviet government. But this fact is utterly irrelevant and meaningless. These brave Jews divorced themselves from their reactionary religion and embraced European socialism (Russian Bolshevism), thus automatically becoming honorary Aryans. Hence, the Bolshevik Jews were not bad Jews but good Europeans (in the Nietzschean sense as like all true overmen they overcame their own former selves, morphing into something new, noble and self-sacrificing)… Only traitors to Europe do not appreciate the hard work that they did for the betterment of our race. The accomplishments of the Jewish Bolsheviks will always be remembered by any self-respecting European patriot. Here is Constantin praising the Bolshevik Jews as liberators. Now, Bolshevism involved the mass confiscation of the property of wealthy (white) farmers, the liquidation of the (white) bourgeouisie, the repressive Cheka, and most relevantly the forced starvation of several million Ukrainians. See here for details: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Holodomor&meta= The last was carried out under the guidance of Lazare Kaganovich, a Jew, who was assisted predominantly by other Jews. So these “brave Jews” who “embraced European socialism” were the main architects of the Societ Union’s early atrocities. Hence the question: how does one liberate Ukrainians by killing them? 48
Posted by Alex Zeka on September 02, 2007, 07:20 AM | # “Europe is based on democratic principles”: Just two problems with that statement in the context of this article: a. Europe isn’t; b. nor was the USSR. 49
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 02, 2007, 08:07 AM | # Forgive me, I suspect Constantin’s participation as a blogger — which I strongly support as I’ve said, though I consider him a mixture of excellence and confusion — will meet with greatest success if he’s willing to defend himself in the face of the grilling which commenters here are giving him. If you rate, on scale of zero to ten, blogger willingness to “get down in the trenches” with the commentariat and “mix it up with them” in self-defense or in steering things in a particular direction, and so on — in not letting criticism go unchallenged — someone like Lawrence Auster who tends to keep very closely involved with reader commentary might rate, let’s say, a ten while someone like Matt Nuenke, who is laissez-faire and close-lipped in regard to reader commentary, a zero. Someone like Jim Kalb would be in the middle somewhere, let’s say five. Constantin’s welcome would be assured, it seems to me, if he were willing to respond more but that’s time-consuming, and doubtless exhausting even if you have the time, so it may be asking the impossible — depending on how busy he is. Right now he’d rate something like a one or two on the scale. If he could get it up a couple of notches, to four or five maybe, I think people wouldn’t see him as “an alien presence.” Matt Nuenke can get away with not responding in the threads because the stuff he posts doesn’t shock readers. If you’re going to post stuff, on the other hand, that readers see as “in your face” type stuff, there could be friction, unless you’re willing to defend it in which case the friction gets de-fused in a way as they see you’re really fundamentally one of them, not an adversary. That’s why, as people have noticed, Constantin came across as likeable, and essentially as “one of us” give or take certain details, in Soren’s interview despite youthful weaknesses such as his unapologetic substance abuse: in the interview he couldn’t be “in your face” with his unorthodox ideas but had to defend them. If he can find the time and muster the energy to do the same here, that is, defend himself, he’ll elicit the same reaction as in the interview: acceptance. Otherwise some of his stuff risks coming across as “in your face,” it’s so opposed to what we’re used to. 50
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 02, 2007, 12:23 PM | #
That’s a plus but how does it work? What remains of bolshevism, exactly, after Marx is subtracted? You might say “Bolshevism is Marxism-Leninism, so what remains after Marx is subtracted is Leninism,” but if Marx is subtracted little remains of Leninism either. I don’t see how what remains ought to be called “Bolshevism” unless the “Bolshevism” part of the term “National Bolshevism” is meant in some very loose way. 51
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 02, 2007, 12:49 PM | #
. Had to defend them or concede Soren’s point, which he did (conceded) a number of times as I recall. “Defending” is just explaining, really, so he was on the radio program mainly explaining his views, explaining in greater detail, occasionally conceding Soren’s objection or other point. The interview was excellent and he didn’t at all come across as “in your face.” Doing likewise in the MR.com threads — defending/explaining or, when in the mood, conceding — would melt some ice around here though he may not have time to devote (and if he doesn’t, that’s perfectly understandable — that any blogger finds the time, especially someone like GW who runs this whole show, amazes me). 52
Posted by Robert Reis on September 04, 2007, 05:23 AM | # The only good Jacobin is a dead Jacobin. 53
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 05, 2007, 09:35 AM | # See Snouck’s take on the reigning political strategy of forced race-replacement (what he calls “population-replacement”). See also Paul Belien here. And this is quite nice, incidentally: the Vlaams Belang is making it clear it is saying No not just to an oppressive Belgium but to an oppressive EU as well! Flanders will say No to both oppressors! Long live free Flanders! 54
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 13, 2007, 10:34 PM | # “Racism” deemed not just a crime in Europe, but as serious as terrorism:
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Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 14, 2007, 09:48 AM | # Vicious unprovoked Jewish tribal attack on Eurochristians. 56
Posted by Tommy G on September 14, 2007, 10:11 AM | # More unjustified Jewish tribal attacks on Euro-Christians: 57
Posted by Tommy G on September 14, 2007, 12:42 PM | # More F’ed up news for the Euro-Christians. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a23dbdaa-6164-11dc-bf25-0000779fd2ac.html These elite bastards that are in league with the children of Satan just won’t quite! 58
Posted by PF on September 14, 2007, 09:44 PM | # In Communist East Germany they brought in olympic athletes from Cuba and let them stay in East German villages where they impregnated the women so some villages have half-Cubans growing up in them. The same is true for negro athletes they let in, though in smaller numbers. I dont see why the breed of person who lives in a place should be allowed to be changed just because of a sporting event. 59
Posted by Tommy G on September 14, 2007, 09:54 PM | # “I dont see why the breed of person who lives in a place should be allowed to be changed just because of a sporting event.” Posted by PF on Saturday, September 15, 2007 at 01:44 AM | # The question is: why are white women so willingly miscegenating with Negroes? 60
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 14, 2007, 10:41 PM | #
Does this dispel some of the mystery? 61
Posted by Tommy G on September 15, 2007, 08:36 AM | # Thanks, Fred. That was spot on. Many white women are absolutely clueless as to the dangerous game their playing. Not to mention they’re definitely contributing in large measure to the destruction of their own race. Too, we can’t ignore the corrosive effects of radical feminism promoted by feminazis in the NOW…or the likes of Gloria Stein(bitch) etc. http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/4993/C136/L136 http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/09/hols_fiend_give.php Btw—where are all the other posters? 62
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 15, 2007, 10:00 AM | #
In comments traffic, lulls always alternate with spurts. For my part I’ve been refraining from posting so much, having just gotten another flurry of negative reaction to my commentary (the first being that gonstar flap the other month, in which a number joined gongstar), citing strong dislike of my general style, my “one-liners” (whatever those are supposed to be), my “trademark three-in-a-row comments” (didn’t know that was my trademark), and my being “a comment spammer, spamming the threads with my comments, pushing the other comments off the front page so people can’t read them.” As I said to someone, when criticism comes from the enemy I ignore it but when it comes from people on our side it’s time to make myself less visible. I’ve tried to refrain from posting altogether, to give others a chance, and where I’ve posted I’ve kept it as brief as possible — a sentence or two, or just a link. 63
Posted by Tommy G on September 15, 2007, 02:15 PM | # “I’ve tried to refrain from posting altogether, to give others a chance, and where I’ve posted I’ve kept it as brief as possible — a sentence or two, or just a link.”—Fred Scrooby Fred, please don’t make yourself too scarce for too long. I know I’m not the only one that finds your posts some of the most informative and entertaining. Screw those that don’t have a sense of humor. Let the host decide if your bogarting the threads. I don’t hear any complaints from Guessedworker. 64
Posted by Steve Edwards on September 16, 2007, 02:12 AM | # I think Fred is an excellent commenter, who should continue to comment as frequently as he likes. The last thing we need is for the author of “race replacement”, a VERY handy concept, to call it quits. 65
Posted by Al Ross on September 16, 2007, 04:03 AM | # Carry on as normal, Fred. Your comments are always most welcome. 66
Posted by Slavyanski on September 16, 2007, 08:09 AM | # I don’t know what you people have against democracy. One minute you claim to be for your “race”, “nation”, or “people”, and on the other hand you don’t consider them fit to run their own affairs. Either you “love your race”, or you think they are a bunch of morons. 67
Posted by Slavyanski on September 16, 2007, 08:29 AM | # What does Bolshevism have to do with killing Ukrainians? Something like 25% of the Red Army was Ukrainian, and many volunteered. The second largest ethnicity of HSU winners was Ukrainian. There is absolutely no evidence of any anti-Ukrainian actions by the Soviet Union. “Zhivi Ukraino prekrasna i silna, v Radnyanskim Soyuzni ti shasta zashla…” 68
Posted by Tommy G on September 16, 2007, 08:46 AM | # “There is absolutely no evidence of any anti-Ukrainian actions by the Soviet Union.” You’ve got to be kidding, right? 69
Posted by Alex Zeka on September 16, 2007, 10:16 AM | # Bolshevism has atleast something to do with the grain confiscations which triggered the death of 5m+ Ukrainians in the late 20s/early 30s, no? Even if the intentions were not democidal, the outcome was. don’t know what you people have against democracy. One minute you claim to be for your “race”, “nation”, or “people”, and on the other hand you don’t consider them fit to run their own affairs. Either you “love your race”, or you think they are a bunch of morons. Oh, I’m for some sort of democracy. However, statements like “Europe is based on democratic principles” are either simply untrue or examples of hyperbole so dramatic as to be functionally meaningless. 70
Posted by Slavyanski on September 16, 2007, 10:29 AM | # 5 million Ukrainians? Are you sure it wasn’t 3? Or was it 7? Or was it 10? Had you bothered to look at the evidence, you would have seen that in response to famine, the Soviet government cut exports, lowered procurements to their lowest level in the 30s, and redirected grain back to the collectives from whence it was procured. Care to post some demographic evidence for your claim? Because I have some demographic statistics and they show about 1 million excess deaths in the Ukraine. I might also point out that had the Soviets not procured grain at all, millions throughout the cities of the Soviet Union would have starved, including Ukrainians. Did the peasants have a right to starve millions of people? Of course Russia and Ukraine suffered a famine that killed 9 million people directly related to the support of international imperialists backing the failing White Guards, but for some reason that is never referred to as a ‘man-made’ famine.
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Posted by Tommy G on September 16, 2007, 11:10 AM | # “Sorry pal, the “Ukrainian famine” isn’t going to faze me.” Okay, Slavyanski, you’ve clearly demonstrated your a ‘Holodomor denier’. But let me ask you this: Do you believe the official version of the so called “Holocaust?” Does the “Holocaust” faze you? Do you agree 6 million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis? 72
Posted by Slavyanski on September 16, 2007, 11:22 AM | # You can’t figure out the difference between a famine, which is a natural phenomenon, and the planned extermination of a people? In case you didn’t know, much of the evidence for the Holocaust comes from the Nazis’ own documents. Examination of Soviet archives reveals the exact opposite. Do you have any evidence that the Soviet regime deliberately tried to starve Ukrainians or any other group for that matter? Because that would be news to those who have spent years researching in the archives. I find it funny that you think that Holocaust denial has something to do with the Holodomor(itself a contradiction in terms). There is evidence for the Holocaust, there is not evidence for this Holodomor. Even Conquest himself admitted that the famine was natural, and he also later admitted that the famine did not affect only Ukrainians. Smart move on his part, since he arbitrarily quoted death statistics without even checking the demographic records or archival evidence. But then again, Conquest was always a fraud anyway, and he was exposed as far back as the 70s. 73
Posted by Slavyanski on September 16, 2007, 11:24 AM | # Oh one more thing. Is there any reason why I should doubt the “official” story of the Holocaust? 74
Posted by Tommy G on September 16, 2007, 12:07 PM | # “You can’t figure out the difference between a famine, which is a natural phenomenon, and the planned extermination of a people?” Oh yes I can. I also can figure out the difference between a man made famine and one which is a natural phenomenon. The famine in the Ukraine was diffinatly, without a doubt, caused by Stalin and his overzealous gang of Bolsheviks. Ruthless Bolsheviks hellbent on imposing their policy of collectivization. ” Policy of collectivization At the same time, the “Twenty-Five Thousanders” (industrial workers and mostly devoted Bolsheviks) were sent to help run the collective farms. In addition, they were expected to quash the increasing passive and active resistance to collectivization by engaging in what was euphemistically referred to as “dekulakization”: the arresting of ‘kulaks’ — allegedly “well-to-do” farmers who opposed the regime and withheld grain from the state collection — and transferring kulak families to the Urals and Central Asia, where they were to be placed in others sectors of the economy such as timber.[13] Effectively, the term ‘kulak’ was applied to anybody resisting collectivization and many of the so-called ‘kulaks’ were no more well off than other peasants. According to the declassified data, around 300,000 Ukrainians out of a population of about 30 million were subject to these policies in 1930-31 and Ukrainians composed 15% of the total 1.8 million ‘kulaks’ relocated Soviet-wide.[14] Collectivization had an adverse effect on agricultural output everywhere, but since Ukraine was the most agriculturally productive area (over 50% of wheat produced in the Russian Empire originated from Ukraine in the beginning of 20th century), the effects here were particularly dramatic. As projections for agricultural production declined, so did collections by the state. For the 1932 harvest, it was planned that there would be 29.5 million tons in state collections of grain out of 90.7 million tons in production. But the actual result was a disastrous 55-60 million tons in production. The state ended up collecting only 18.5 million tons in grain.[15] The collections by the state were virtually the same in 1930 and 1931 at about 22.8 million tons. For 1932, they had significantly been reduced to 18.5 million tons. “ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/causes.html One more question Slavyanski: Are you Jewish? 75
Posted by Matra on September 16, 2007, 12:56 PM | # You can’t figure out the difference between a famine, which is a natural phenomenon, and the planned extermination of a people? That’s what Abe Foxman said a couple of years ago. 76
Posted by VLC on September 16, 2007, 01:53 PM | # Rational Red? Feel the need to emphasize your terrific Rationality?
Let me make you blind, deaf, and mute and see if you can make good choices based on the carefully selected information I’ll give you about the world in which you live in.
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Posted by Tommy G on September 16, 2007, 02:04 PM | # “The famine was not “man-made” get over it.” Oh yes it was indeed “man made” GET WITH IT! I would suggest YOU do some real research and read factual history , not leftist propaganda. http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/ And Pulitzer prize winning Ann Applebaum’s “Gulag.” http://www.amazon.com/Gulag-History-Anne-Applebaum/dp/1400034094 Btw—you never answered the questions: 1)Do you believe in the OFFICAL version of the Holocaust, and,2) are you a Jew? If you are a Jew, that would explain your insistence on downplaying the atrocities committed by the Bolsheviks specifically but not exclusively the man-made Ukrainian famine? As we all know Jews in great numbers played significant roles (in leadership positions) carrying out a multitude of atrocities committed in the former Soviet Union. Jews want these uncomfortable truths about their criminal behavior kept swept under the historical rug, so to speak. It detracts from their monopoly on victimhood via the so called “Holocaust.” 78
Posted by schaum's on September 16, 2007, 03:01 PM | # In case you didn’t know, much of the evidence for the Holocaust comes from the Nazis’ own documents. Please cite this evidence. Someone must have uploaded the material to a webpage somewhere. Because in all my years of reading on the holohoax no site pro or anti has offered such solid evidence. 79
Posted by VLC on September 16, 2007, 04:21 PM | # TommyG: “And Pulitzer prize winning…”
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Posted by VLC on September 16, 2007, 04:25 PM | # JPSlovjanski:
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Posted by Tommy G on September 16, 2007, 05:11 PM | # “TommyG: “And Pulitzer prize winning…” be careful: the Pulitzer prize is worthless. the NYT reporter Duranty won a Pulitzer prize after he covered up the reality of the USSR to his readers.” VLC, the Pulitzer prise board unknowingly awarded Duranty the prise before he was exposed as a two faced double dealing creep who was probably being blackmailed by the Soviet secret police. Even after a few screw-ups along the way, I still believe the Pulitzer prise still maintains it’s prestige. Excerpt from the link in my post @September 16, 2007 at 12:46 PM | # http://www.ukemonde.com/news/rferl.html “The journalist he says played the most influential role in the cover-up was “The New York Times” correspondent Walter Duranty. A drug addict with a shady reputation, Duranty was also an avid fan of Stalin’s, whom he described as “the world’s greatest living statesman.” He was granted the first American interview with the Soviet leader and received privileged information from the secretive regime. Duranty confided to a British diplomat at the time that he thought 10 million people had perished in the famine. But when other journalists who had traveled to Ukraine began writing about the horrific famine raging there, Duranty branded their information as anti-Soviet lies. Conquest believes that Duranty was being blackmailed by the Soviet secret police over his sexual activities, which reportedly included bisexuality and necrophilia. The year before the famine, in 1932, Duranty won the Pulitzer Prize, America’s most coveted journalism award, for a series of articles on the Soviet economy. Liciuk says members of the Ukrainian diaspora, as well as Ukrainian politicians and academics, earlier this month launched a campaign to have Duranty’s award posthumously revoked. He said he hopes the campaign will make more people in the world aware of the famine. A spokesman for the Pulitzer board, Sid Gissler, said the board has considered withdrawing Duranty’s prize on previous occasions but had decided against doing so because it had not been awarded for articles related to the famine. He said he sympathized with the Ukrainian campaign, and added the board would reconsider the question again later this year….”
LOL, so he’s just another delusional neo-commie…sort of like a Democrat lead by Comrade Hillary Clinton? 82
Posted by Alex Zeka on September 16, 2007, 06:50 PM | # Irrespective of whether the Holodmor famine was *engineered* or just a by-product of an insane ideology, the fact remains that the Soviets somehow managed to create a food shortage in what had previously been Russia’s (and indeed much of Europe’s) breadbasket. Jewish Bolsheviks - actively malign or accidentally dangerous? 83
Posted by Fred Scrooby on September 16, 2007, 07:54 PM | # Here‘s a useful resource on the Holodomor. Another is Lev Kopelev‘s book: Kopelev was one of the Bolsheviks who were actually there, on the ground, carrying out the whole thing. 84
Posted by Slavyanski on September 17, 2007, 07:22 AM | # Well we certainly hit the motherlode of idiocy here! Where to begin. I think I’ll start with the accusation or insinuation that I must be Jewish. Of course someone who shatters your little wannabe-Holocaust(the Holodomor) must be Jewish right? It’s funny how you guys try to cover up your anti-Semitism, and fail so miserably. There is no evidence that there was a “man-made” famine in the Ukraine in 1931-32. If one wants to blame the Soviets for the famine that did occur, one would have to level the same charge of genocide at France for famines that occured in Vietnam in the 1940s and in its African colonies in 1931. In fact, France did far less to alleviate the problem than the Soviets, as it did not cut its procurements at all in response to the problem. In addition to this, some people also would claim the Irish potato-famine was “man-made” because the British government did not do enough to prevent casulties. More importantly, one would have to level the accusation of genocide against the Russian provisional government, and the interventionalist armies in the Russian Civil War, because it was their continuation of the war which led to the famine of 1921-22, which incidentily was actually proven to have killed somewhere around 9-10 million people.
1. The accusation that the famine was “man-made” is based on the claim that the harvest of that year was sufficient or better. In fact, documentary evidence shows the exact opposite. A number of problems such as drought, disease, and the usual backwardness of Russian agriculture which the Bolsheviks were trying to fight, caused a low harvest. The leadership was not promptly informed of this fact, which is why procurement quotas were not initially lowered, nor were exports cut. Once the center was informed, procurements were cut to their lowest level in the 1930s, exports were cut, and grain was actually returned to many collectives(some collectives were allowed to be decollectivized in situations where it was deemed more efficient for the time being). All of point one is based on information located in previously-secret archival records from the USSR. THESE ARCHIVES HAVE BEEN OPEN SINCE 1991, AND TO THIS DAY NOBODY HAS PRODUCED A SINGLE DOCUMENT SHOWING A GOVERNMENT PLOT TO STARVE ANY PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE. Shit, huh? 2. The starvation due to the famine was so widespread it affected people in the cities including in Moscow, and including party members. Strange plot to exterminate people huh? How many SS men were accidentily gassed? How many Einsatzgruppen members accidentily shot each other on firing squad duty? 3. Given the economic history of Ukraine in that era and shortly after, as well as the overwhelming majority of Ukrainian’s response to the Nazis(HINT: Far more resisted), it seems strange that this was the site of a horrible famine that killed 7-10 million. 4. Originally the stated deaths of the famine were 3-4 million. In the 1980s, the West decided to up that figure, so with no further research they raised it to 7 million. What do actual demographics show for excess deaths during that period of 1931-1932? Roughly 1.5 million deaths in the Ukraine, 2.2 total for the whole Soviet Union. WOW!
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Posted by Slavyanski on September 17, 2007, 07:31 AM | # Now let’s deal with that insinuation that I went “insane”. I love that comparison because right-wingers always whine and bitch if people insinuate that they are irrational or possibly mentally ill(some have suggested, for example, that anti-Semitism is related to a mental illness). They also occasionally claim that the Soviet Union used to throw people who disagreed with the regime into asylums as “insane”. Of course they can never seem to name one person who was labelled “insane” for his dissent, but it’s not like it’s the first time right-wingers have pulled things out of their asses without the facts to back them up(I guess the Ukrainian famine might have been one of the first). One would have to be insane to fully buy into the ideology of the National Alliance, and specifically Pierce. I never did, having far more trust in a few intellectuals that showed some kind of promise. Some were genuine, many were not. Either way, to reject the National Alliance is a sign of sanity, not insanity. Now let us talk about the “Jewish Bolsheviks”. This seems to be one of these sites where people just assume that everyone accepts the claim of “Jewish Bolsheviks”. Bad news…most of the world does not. You say “Jewish Bolsheviks” were responsible for “crimes” of the Soviet Union? Fine- WHO, WHEN, WHAT? Contrary to nutcase claims, Jews were neither a majority in the Soviet leadership, nor were they the most overrepresented group. In fact, nearly all groups in the Central Committee were overrepresented, including Great Russians. Latvians had the highest overrepresentation. Lastly, to the moron who claims he wasn’t aware of any documentation proving the Holocaust, you might want to actually look into it some time. Look up the Bichoff memos for example. No, not at Zundelsite or some other nutcase haven, but at any credible historical site. There it is in black and white. There is far more than that if you actually took the time to look.
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Posted by Slavyanski on September 17, 2007, 07:52 AM | # One more thing, I wanted to point out the dishonesty of some of the Nazis here(yes, Holocaust deniers are generally either Neo-Nazis or Nazi sympathizers). Check out this quote: “Please cite this evidence. Someone must have uploaded the material to a webpage somewhere. Because in all my years of reading on the holohoax no site pro or anti has offered such solid evidence. Now first off, if someone was not a die-hard denier, they wouldn’t refer to it as “the Holohoax”. But notice he claims to have years of reading on the subject, and yet he has never seen solid evidence. Either he is lying about doing the research(probably), or he is just ignoring everything which contradicts his claim. Probably a little bit of both actually. If the Holocaust is a hoax, kindly tell me who created the hoax. That shouldn’t be too hard to do. 87
Posted by Tommy G on September 17, 2007, 08:25 AM | # “Well we certainly hit the motherlode of idiocy here!” TG: Yes we did, and you brought the mother-lode here; it’s named Slavyanski. “Where to begin. I think I’ll start with the accusation or insinuation that I must be Jewish.” TG: What? Are you dense? I just asked if you were Jewish…that’s all. If you were indeed Jewish, then you might have some rational reasons to engage in historical revisionism of the Holodomor/genocide. It’s really convenient of you—just like a good little commie—to ignore the forced collectivization of the farms in Ukraine as the proximate cause of the famine. And what about all those Ukrainian Kulaks the “benevolent” Bolsheviks hauled off to the archipelago of prison camps? Please explain to us what their actual crimes were again? “Of course someone who shatters your little wannabe-Holocaust(the Holodomor) must be Jewish right?” TG: Don’t flatter yourself. You didn’t shatter anything. And no, they mustn’t be Jewish, just a misguided brainwashed fool like yourself Slavy! Someone who’s premises don’t square with reality. “It’s funny how you guys try to cover up your anti-Semitism, and fail so miserably.” TG: Who’s trying to cover up any anti-Semitism? From what I read here at MR, any discussion of non-Arab Semites is based on objective reality. How is that anti-Semitism? The problem with you, Slavyanski, is your mind is supended in the red fog of the unknown. Slavy, you simply don’t know, and don’t know you don’t know the hidious truth about your beloved Soviet Union. 88
Posted by Slavyanski on September 17, 2007, 09:59 AM | # “TG: Yes we did, and you brought the mother-lode here; it’s named Slavyanski.” Wow, you could have saved some time and typed “NO U!” TG: What? Are you dense? I just asked if you were Jewish…that’s all. If you were indeed Jewish, then you might have some rational reasons to engage in historical revisionism of the Holodomor/genocide. No, there are plenty of rational reasons, such as concern for historical truth. That is why virtually every objective historian who has had access to archival evidence disagrees with the “genocide” characterization of the Ukrainian famine(which didn’t affect only Ukraine). There is no reason why Jews would have the most rational reason to oppose that fairy-tale, unless one accepts the false assumption that Jews were somehow behind Bolshevism.
Sorry but the evidence points to drought and other factors. Ukraine and the Russian empire had a history of famine, sometimes consecutively. Advances such as mechanization, facilitated by collectivization, eventually ended that problem. By 1934 the Soviet Union was able to feed its growing urban population.
Hmmm…grain speculation and potentially starving millions of people in cities just to obtain a higher price for their products? That sounds like a crime to me.
This from the guy that believes in the “Holodomor”.
Objective reality? Hardly. Otherwise you wouldn’t associate Bolsheviks with Jews.
Correction, I clearly know more than you. I see you still haven’t come up with an answer as to why the Soviet archives have been open since 1991 and there hasn’t been one document suggesting a plan by the regime to starve off a large part of the population. 89
Posted by Tommy G on September 17, 2007, 10:41 AM | # Slavyanski, I certainly would like to believe that the famine in Ukraine was a natural phenomenon; I revolt at the thought that Whites could commit such murderous and cruel acts towards other whites: however, the preponderance of the evedence tells us otherwise. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Slavy:“Objective reality? Hardly. Otherwise you wouldn’t associate Bolsheviks with Jews.” Well, here’s some objective truths regarding Jews, Bolsheviks, their involvement in the man-made famine in Ukraine, and the over-representation of Jews in elite positions during the 1920’s and 1930’s Soviet Union. 90
Posted by desmond jones on September 17, 2007, 03:36 PM | #
The Specter of Genocide: Mass Murder in Historical Perspective Book by Robert Gellately, Ben Kieman; Cambridge University Press, 2003 Stalin and his Jews stole the property, livestock, crops and any means of production from defined groups of people. Those people starved because they could not feed themselves. If starvation was not planned, what exactly was the expected outcome? 91
Posted by Henry Strawberry on September 17, 2007, 05:16 PM | # Slavyanski site does have some nice scans of Albanian propaganda posters from the socialist years. the man obvioiusly has a sense of humor. 92
Posted by VLC on September 18, 2007, 12:10 AM | # JPSlovjanski: These people [the Ukrainian nationalists] were traitors to Ukraine, still are, and always will be. LOL! that’s rich coming from a raving communist lunatic: ukrainian nationalists are traitors because, because mmmmm… they’re nationalists! and they hated the USSR and the communists. And they blame the soviets for the famine. Ukraine was so much better under the soviet boots when the NKVD had carte blanche, right? Speaking of treason what have you done to harm your race today? I mean besides posting nonsense on your blog JPSlovjanski: One would have to be insane to fully buy into the ideology of the National Alliance, and specifically Pierce. there’s nothing wrong with William Pierce’s intellectual work, his American Dissident Voices broadcasts are among the best commentaries ever published/broadcasted on contemporary american society. He had a very clear and sharp mind, unlike you JPSlovjanski: Now let us talk about the “Jewish Bolsheviks”. This seems to be one of these sites where people just assume that everyone accepts the claim of “Jewish Bolsheviks”. even if they weren’t dominant at the beginning they didn’t waste time getting into it: http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/commlink.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20040603033839/ukar.org/mclell07.html
JPSlovjanski: If the Holocaust is a hoax, kindly tell me who created the hoax. That shouldn’t be too hard to do. http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/tfh/3.html JPSlovjanski: I see you still haven’t come up with an answer as to why the Soviet archives have been open since 1991 and there hasn’t been one document suggesting a plan by the regime to starve off a large part of the population. perhaps you have a point JP because no order to exterminate the jews has ever been found and Hilberg claims it all happened without a precise plan and without orders. 93
Posted by Tommy G on September 18, 2007, 09:09 AM | # Slavyanski asserts: “... the Soviet archives have been open since 1991 and there hasn’t been one document suggesting a plan by the regime to starve off a large part of the population.” VLC, since Slavyanski has proven himself to be somewhat of a wack job, Im going to respectfully and sincerely address my question to you. Why should anyone trust those archives which Slavyanski refers to, to be wholly authentic and not altered in any way? I strongly suspect the real documents—if any existed in the first place—have been disposed of and replaced with forged documents. It’s evident to me the Russians have every reason to cover up the atrocities committed against the Ukrainian people caused by their man-made famine in 1932 and 1933 (Holodomor). 94
Posted by VLC on September 19, 2007, 02:22 AM | # of course one has to be careful with soviet documents. You’re dealing with people who went as far as to erase Trotsky from photos 95
Posted by Slavyanski on September 19, 2007, 09:56 AM | # Hilarious. One guy posts what he thinks is evidence that the famine was man-made, while another guy then decides to doubt everything in the archives as possibly forged. Sorry but history doesn’t work that way. The burden of proof is on the accusers to show a plan of starvation for Ukrainians or any other ethnic group. Collectivization didn’t mean simply stealing livestock or grain from people; it meant “COLLECTIVIZATION”. Those that tried to resist by refusing to sow or in some extreme cases, killing livestock, had their property confiscated and given to those who would use it. Again, if you claim that collectivization constitutes a man-made famine, then the same accusation must be leveled at many other countries, up unto the present day- as agricultural policies or lack thereof has often led to famine throughout history. What we do know is that by contrast, the Soviet collectivization ultimately worked, and the results were drastically lowered infant mortality and a doubled-lifespan(though this was due to other social policies as well). Either you can quote primary source documents, or you can dismiss them(without evidence) of being forged, but you cannot choose to believe the ones that support your view and dismiss those that contradict it. It is also ludicrous to suggest that the Soviet Union would forge documents and then lock them away in secret. It’s funny how you people like to refer to me as a “whackjob” or “insane”(again, missing the irony of how you people constantly bitch about normal people labelling you in the same fashion), and yet we have people on here who refer to collectivization as “Stalin and the Jews.” And when asked to present actual evidence of this preponderance of Jews, we suddenly see sources like Kevin MacDonald or Jewish Tribal Review. That is because all of you are well aware that if you actually were to find and produce statistics on ethnicities in the NKVD or Central Committee, you would find that Jews were in fact neither a majority, nor the most overrepresented group. I could care less if some nutcase Jew wants to claim that there was a preponderance of Jews in the NKVD/Cheka. Let HIM produce the statistics then, and then let him explain how a certain minority in an organization encompassing tens of thousands of people somehow shows dominance while the overrepresentation of other minorities does not. If this anti-Semitic conspiracy theory is not just a paranoid fantasy, why is the overrepresentation of Jews in the first Central Committee treated as something so noteworthy, while the larger overrepresentation of say, Latvians(the highest overrepresentation), isn’t. Clearly the anti-Semitic nutcases believe that other national groups in Soviet organs of power were more-or-less authentic internationalist Communists, while the Jews were somehow only concerned with their own interests. This is a clear bias and it is wholly irrational. 96
Posted by Slavyanski on September 19, 2007, 10:12 AM | # “LOL! that’s rich coming from a raving communist lunatic:” Sure, you believe in Jewish conspiracy theories, and deny the Holocaust, but I’m the “lunatic”.
They are traitors because they have historically allied with larger powers and often betrayed them. The West Ukrainian nationalists first allied with the Poles just to get a scrap of a state, and then ended up being dominated by Poland. Then they supported the Germans, and their aid facilitated the murder of millions of Russians and Ukrainians.
They can blame all they want, they are irrational people. I might also point out that many of the Ukrainian nationalists, in fact most of them, are Galician. In other words, while that famine was happening they were under Polish domination.
Nobody was buying and selling Ukrainian women worldwide back then. And compare the demographic/population growth statistics from that era and now. “Speaking of treason what have you done to harm your race today? I mean besides posting nonsense on your blog” Ooooooh….HARM my race!!! I HARMED my race by posting on this blog. And I’M the whackjob right? “there’s nothing wrong with William Pierce’s intellectual work, his American Dissident Voices broadcasts are among the best commentaries ever published/broadcasted on contemporary american society. He had a very clear and sharp mind, unlike you” This sentence says a lot about you. Pierce revelled in the idea of genocide, displayed a clear hatred of women, and even his own people in general. Perhaps you don’t have as much knowledge of his writings as I.
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/commlink.htm” They were never dominant. In fact, Jews lost presense in the Soviet leadership ever since the 1920s. The passage from Schatz is interesting because Kevin MacDonald deliberately cut passages from Schatz’ book to distort what he was saying. Schatz tried to correct MacDonald in a published online debate, but MacDonald proceeded to assert that he knew Schatz’ work better then Schatz’ himself.
“Ilya Ehrenburg, although the tale of the Six Million appeared almost 20 years earlier: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/tfh/3.html” WOW!!! Ilya Ehrenburg singlehandedly built phony gas chambers, forged thousands of documents, forged Goebbels’ diary, contaminated blown up fake gas chambers with cyanide(as the Forensics Institute of Krakow found at the Birkenau chambers), and fixed the stories of hundreds of thousands of people including the perpetrators. INCREDIBLE!!!! Oh and the “20 year ago” claim again shows how ironic it is that you call me a whackjob. As if one guy stating that 6 million Jews were in danger of dying from starvation constitutes an attempt to fake something that big.
“perhaps you have a point JP because no order to exterminate the jews has ever been found and Hilberg claims it all happened without a precise plan and without orders. “ Look up the Max Taubner verdict and the Bichoff memos, and you will see clear documentary evidence of extermination- then you can claim they were forged….by Ilya Ehrenburg. Of course that still can’t explain where all these Jews went, or why there are records of trains arriving at Auschwitz full of people, but the camp populations don’t rise, etc. etc. 97
Posted by Tommy G on September 19, 2007, 10:43 AM | # Nice people those Bolshevists. They really knew how to persuade their own citizens in a kindly benevolent fashion to cooperate with communist totalitarianism. Check this out: Grain Problem ————————————————————————————————————————
RESOLUTION OF THE COUNCIL OF PEOPLE’S COMMISSARS OF THE UKRAINIAN In view of the shameful collapse of grain collection in the The Council of People’s Commissars and the Central Committee To place the following villages on the black list for overt 1. village of Verbka in Pavlograd raion, Dnepropetrovsk ... 5. village of Sviatotroitskoe in Troitsk raion, Odessa oblast. 6. village of Peski in Bashtan raion, Odessa oblast. The following measures should be undertaken with respect to 1. Immediate cessation of delivery of goods, complete 2. Full prohibition of collective farm trade for both 3. Cessation of any sort of credit and demand for early 5. Investigation and purge of collective farms in these The Council of People’s Commissars and the Central Committee CHAIRMAN OF THE COUNCIL OF PEOPLE’S SECRETARY OF THE CENTRAL COMMITTEE OF THE 6 December 1932. True copy Memorandum on Grain Problem ———————————————————————————————————————— Go to the Next Section of the Soviet Archives exhibit Return to the Table of contents for the Soviet Archives exhibit Go to the Library of Congress Home Page 98
Posted by Tommy G on September 19, 2007, 10:46 AM | # 99
Posted by VLC on September 20, 2007, 10:57 AM | # JPSlovjanski: That is because all of you are well aware that if you actually were to find and produce statistics on ethnicities in the NKVD or Central Committee, you would find that Jews were in fact neither a majority, nor the most overrepresented group. jews were overrepresent in the NKVD-Cheka in Ukraine http://web.archive.org/web/20040402053500/ukar.org/shapov01.html
JPSlovjanski: you believe in Jewish conspiracy theories I’ve read Kevin MacDonald and the Jewish Tribal Review website, that’s all. I believe that jews act according to what they feel is “good for jews”, whether it is rational or not and that they don’t want the non-jews to see them as an extremely ethnocentric group with a dual moral code, because having a negative repution would be ‘bad for the jews’. JPSlovjanski: and deny the Holocaust there was no Six Millions in Gas Chambers. Half a million at most and not gassed. No plans to exterminate and no orders related to that non-existant plan were ever found. The jews simply exaggerated the death toll and made up tons of horror stories. Lampshades and soap. Shrunken heads. Jewish babies used as clay pigeons. JPSlovjanski: but I’m the “lunatic”. because you’re a communist who thinks the USSR was a great experiment and the soviets the good guys. JPSlovjanski: Nobody was buying and selling Ukrainian women worldwide back then. and guess where a lot of them end up. Protecting ukrainian women from organized crime would be antisemitic. JPSlovjanski: Schatz tried to correct MacDonald in a published online debate, but MacDonald proceeded to assert that he knew Schatz’ work better then Schatz’ himself.
Same facts, different judgement. Typical jewish behavior. http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/lieberman.html
- Kevin MacDonald
jewish documentary filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici says jews run Hollywood but he can say that without being called an antisemite because he thinks it’s either a good or a neutral thing. And I don’t think his documentary will ever be showed on primetime TV http://youtube.com/watch?v=7—FG8o57WI try David Duke now. He says jews run Hollywood, which is true, but he doesn’t like it. That’s Hate and Antisemitism. Remember what happened to Brando? JPSlovjanski: Ilya Ehrenburg singlehandedly built phony gas chambers, forged thousands of documents, forged Goebbels’ diary, contaminated blown up fake gas chambers with cyanide(as the Forensics Institute of Krakow found at the Birkenau chambers), and fixed the stories of hundreds of thousands of people including the perpetrators.
http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04f_footnote.html you know how many names they have at Yad Vashem? (hint: it isn’t Six Million.) And how come Anne Frank wasn’t gassed while she was in Auschwitz and instead treated in an hospital where ze evil germans tried to save her life? That detail always bothered me. If there had been thousands of documents proving the holocaust happened Raul Hilberg could have handed them to Doug Christie in the Zundel trial. And he wouldn’t have to claim that the holocaust happened without a plan and without orders being carried to execute the plan.
JPSlovjanski: Oh and the “20 year ago” claim again shows how ironic it is that you call me a whackjob. As if one guy stating that 6 million Jews were in danger of dying from starvation constitutes an attempt to fake something that big.
Was it true? Was it false? It seems we can conclude it wasn’t true. But the truth doesn’t matter for jews, their minds don’t work that way. JPSlovjanski: Look up the Max Taubner verdict and the Bischoff memos, and you will see clear documentary evidence of extermination- then you can claim they were forged….by Ilya Ehrenburg. Of course that still can’t explain where all these Jews went, or why there are records of trains arriving at Auschwitz full of people, but the camp populations don’t rise, etc. etc.
oh wait, are you going to tell us that the soviets didn’t do Katyn? Well, all those polish traitors had it coming anyway 100
Posted by Slavyanski on September 23, 2007, 10:27 AM | # It just gets better and better!
http://web.archive.org/web/20040402053500/ukar.org/shapov01.html” Oh yeah, UKAR is a reliable source. Lubomir is a nutcase, plain and simple. “but hey I didn’t do the research myself, I don’t speak ukrainian anyway. I must presume it’s all wrong. Because it’s antisemitic. Yes, it all makes perfect sense.” You still haven’t figured it out yet: Why is OVERREPRESENTATION, which would mean more members in relation to their percentage of the population, important at all? Many groups were overrepresented in Soviet leadership bodies, including Greater Russians. Why would you expect organizations involving so many people to have perfectly proportional representation?
Both are known as anti-Semitic. Kevin MacDonald in fact, used as one of his sources Wolf of the Kremlin, a false biography of Lazar Kaganovich. As far as I know, he has not changed his tune after discovering it was a fabrication. “I believe that jews act according to what they feel is “good for jews”, whether it is rational or not and that they don’t want the non-jews to see them as an extremely ethnocentric group with a dual moral code, because having a negative repution would be ‘bad for the jews’.” And what evidence is there of this? For one thing, Jewish nationalist or extremist groups are well known. Jewish advocacy groups like the ADL or AIPAC are wide open, and obviously pro-Jewish(as they see it). I see no attempt to conceal their nature. More importantly, Jews as a cultural-religious group may be anything from Nordic white to black African. How can you possibly rationally insist on calling that a “race”?
Wow, all that research you allegedly did on the Holocaust and you never noticed that nobody claimed 6 million were gassed, ever. Six million includes those killed by the Einsatzgruppen, those forcibly starved, worked to death, etc, and yes, gassed. In total, the Holocaust also included an equal or greater number of non-Jews, but you’ll deny the suffering of your own “race” just to screw the Jews, won’t you? “Half a million at most and not gassed. “ Proof? Want to explain where all those Jews went then?
Funny, there is nothing of the sort in regards to the “Ukrainian famine”, and in fact a lot of evidence of the government’s response(rationing, redirecting grain to famine areas, etc.), and yet you insist on believing that. In fact there were orders for the Einsatzgruppen killings for example, and plenty of forensics evidence confirms the extermination including gassing. The verdict of the Max Taubner trial confirms that this was Nazi German state policy as well.
I see, so when mainstream people call you insane, they’re being like the Communists, but anyone who subscribes to an ideology you don’t even understand is a lunatic.
Unlike you I actually took the time to research this and I have had contact with anti-trafficking organizations, so I can tell you where: Germany, Netherlands, Israel, Turkey, Russia, Bosnia, Kosovo, England, Switzerland, Czech Republic, South Korea, Thailand, China, USA, Canada, UAE, Jordan, Egypt, Italy, etc. Gee, I wonder what country YOU will focus on! If you think there aren’t LARGE numbers of non-Jewish Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans involved in this business, you are very misinformed.
“Schatz did what all jews do when they uncover facts that others use to ascribe something negative to jews: they shoot at the Bad messenger. The truth doesn’t matter, what matters is the gentiles’ perception and the possible negative effects on jews. “ Actually if you had bothered to look up the debate I was referring to, Schatz proves Kevin MacDonald’s dishonesty irrefutably, simply by comparing passages from his book while showing the parts that MacDonald quotes. By comparison, you can clearly see what MacDonald deliberately left out so as to make it seem like Jews controlled Communist Poland in favor of Jewish interests.
Jewish attitudes toward Nazis are with merit, based on past experience. Can you logically say that Nazi attitudes toward Jews in the 20s, and 30s, were also rational? Not if you look at the historical facts; that Jews in fact did serve the Kaiser’s army in higher proportion(yeah, OVERREPRESENTATION), that they were not in fact the sole cause of the Communist movement, and nor were they behind the Russian revolution.
“funny how you accept the official story of the holocaust without skepticism but you deny the official story of the holodomor. OK. You claim to have studied the holodomor ‘myth’. Fine. Why don’t you now do the same for the holocaust? I suggest you start here: http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04f_footnote.html” Actually the official story of the “Holodmor” has changed so much over the years. Death counts have radically been altered upwards in contradiction with known demographic statistics. The cause has been altered as well. A government-sponsered comic book in the 1950s entitled “The Godless Communists” claimed that Ukrainian peasants actually caused the famine by burning their crops in protest; this theme was actually trumpeted by some Ukrainian nationalists and emigres as well, as stupid as it is. Later it became a story of excessive procurement. Today folks like Conquest even admit that it wasn’t man-made, but then blame the Soviet state for not fully preventing it(while ignoring the massive measures they undertook to do so).
Why would you expect them to be all there? Not all the names of those who died in the Vietnam War are on the memorial wall. Not all the names of the Heroes of the Soviet Union appear on the rotunda in Kiev’s victory park, while some names on there don’t appear in other rolls. What is the point? “And how come Anne Frank wasn’t gassed while she was in Auschwitz and instead treated in an hospital where ze evil germans tried to save her life? That detail always bothered me.” I’m sure it always bothered you before some revisionist pointed it out. Anne Frank turned 15 just in time, that was the age at which she could work. “If there had been thousands of documents proving the holocaust happened Raul Hilberg could have handed them to Doug Christie in the Zundel trial. And he wouldn’t have to claim that the holocaust happened without a plan and without orders being carried to execute the plan.” There are plenty of documents, several of which I cited. Most notably, what do you think when a train full of people arrive at a camp, and the camp population remains relatively the same.
“it constitutes an attempt to generate philosemitism on a large scale by pretending that millions of jews were dying. I consider that a good ploy to counter antisemitism. And we’re not talking about one guy but lots of them trying to make the world believe that the jews of Europe were dying and no one was lifting a finger to help them. At the time of World War I.” Jews, along with many other people, were in danger of starvation and death back then. White Guard units and Cossacks did persecute Jews. What is your point?
“Was it true? Was it false? It seems we can conclude it wasn’t true. But the truth doesn’t matter for jews, their minds don’t work that way.” That they were in danger of dying? Well it was certainly possible. The quote you referred to does not claim that 6 million Jews died, only that they were in danger of dying. That was certainly a possibility as it was for many people during that time.
Nobody claimed 6 million were killed in gas chambers. Never. And if you admit that Nazis committed atrocities against Jews, wouldn’t that explain their reactions to Nazis?
For someone from your perspective you might as well call them traitors, fighting against your beloved Hitler. The Nazis killed far more Poles than the Soviets ever did; look up Operation Tannenburg some time. 101
Posted by desmond jones on September 23, 2007, 02:26 PM | # Collectivization didn’t mean simply stealing livestock or grain from people; it meant “COLLECTIVIZATION”. Those that tried to resist by refusing to sow or in some extreme cases, killing livestock, had their property confiscated and given to those who would use it. It still does not answer the question. What other outcome can be expected from mass confiscation except starvation?
The expectation was a healthy happy alternative lifestyle in Siberia? Hilarious! 102
Posted by Slavyanski on September 26, 2007, 04:14 AM | # I see some people are confused about what collectivization is. This involved collectivizating hundreds of small plots into large state farms, which provided several other benefits hitherto unknown to Ukrainian and Russian peasants- education, technical training, medical care, and most importantly to agriculture, mechanization. This was accomplished by the creation of Machine-Tractor-Stations(MTS). The term “Kulak” refers to rich peasants, particularly those that hired labor. Capitalism had been left more or less intact during the NEP period, so this class still existed. They exploited labor of the poorer peasants, who were not adequately cared for under NEP. In addition to this, they engaged in grain speculation. Confiscation was not simply taking grain- kulaks were expropriated, which means if they did not join collectives, the property was taken and distributed. Those that refused this process were indeed deported. And they should have been. Refusal to sow, sell grain, to destroy crops- all of these things would inevitably lead to the starvation of the growing urban population. That is why your quote is worthless, you’re talking about 60,000-120,000 individuals in a population of somewhere around 25 million(IIRC). Individuals who, seemed to think their private property was more important than millions of their countrymen having bread to eat. Much of what was confiscated from the deported was distributed to poorer peasants who were more than happy to work the land once they had it, and had been given the means. The Soviet state, in response(albeit somewhat late due to the lack of information and disorganization in rural areas), instituted rationing, delivered more seed, tractors, trucks, and other materials to famine-affected areas, as is irrefutable based on documentary evidence. In addition to this, procurement quotas were drastically lowered, exports cut, and often times confiscated grain was sometimes returned to collectives(and some collectives were de-collectivized where it was deemed more efficient for the time-being). This is far more drastic a response to Russia’s historical agricultural/famine problems, than anything taken by the Imperial Government. Plus this is a pretty idiotic way to conduct a planned genocide. Did the Nazis ever lead Jews into a gas chamber, only to moments later kick in the door, rush in with gas masks, and administer antropine to the victims? Of course not. Yet anyone so foolish as to equate these events would have us believe that the Soviet government intended to wipe out these populations, while simultaneous making huge efforts to help those affected by the crisis, which included a major part of the population in the most important centers of the USSR. If you want to see what a planned, man-made famine, intended for genocide looks like, take a look at Generalplan Ost. The Germans, having been defeated at Moscow and having lost the hope for a short end to the war in Russia, calculated that in order to carry on a protracted war, it would be necessary to achieve a state where the Wehrmacht could be entirely fed out of occupied Soviet territory. The conclusion of the author of one of these reports clearly stated that the result would be- “starvation of upteen million people.” Ultimately the German plan for Lebensraum was estimated, by the Germans themselves, to kill up to 80 million people West of the Urals. Ironically, almost all of them entirely European in descent. 103
Posted by VLC on October 10, 2007, 01:17 AM | # JPSlovjanski:
the readers can check UKAR.org at Archive.org and judge for themselves how nutty and irrational Lubomyr Prytulak is compared to you http://web.archive.org/web/20051123102140/ukar.org/index.html JPSlovjanski:
I don’t expect them to be perfectly proportional but the high proportion of jews in the apparatus used to terrorize the subjects of the soviet state is understandable considering the antisemitism phenomenon in pre-soviet Russia. “It is difficult to suggest a satisfactory reason for the prevalence of Jews in the Cheka. It may be that having suffered at the hand of the former Russian authorities they wanted to seize the reins of real power in the new state for themselves.” -Leonard Shapiro acquiring power to defend themselves and be in a position to abuse or the peasants who used to sneer or spit at them, revenge for real or perceived wrongs. No need for jews to meet in dark alleys to plot, they know where their interests are and their interests were not in being powerless compared to other ethnic groups around them like they used to be in pre-soviet days. JPSlovjanski:
LOL! it’s the dumbest ad-hominem argument ever. It would be like a commie telling an opponent that his source is wrong because the author is known to be a capitalist. Or a creationist telling an opponent that his source is wrong because the author is a big bad darwinist. MacDonald says he started out his research admiring jews and finished it convinced that jews were bad. And the JTR website is filled with quotes and references from jewish authors. Like I said, Neil Gabler can write a book about jews running Hollywood but a non-jew couldn’t write such a book and moreover wouldn’t be free to comment about the consequences of that jewish influence in the media / entertainment industry especially if he thinks it’s not a good thing. Same facts, different judgements and conclusions. One is OK, the other is bad. What’s the difference? jewish approval. only that JPSlovjanski:
As far as I know there’s only one note refering to Kahan’s book in The Culture of Critique and it’s in the Preface so saying he used a false biography as a source is a bit of a stretch considering the lack of usage of said false biography, a few sentences out of a 400+ pages book. He doesn’t rely on that book to produce his arguments. JPSlovjanski:
I just told you, THe Culture of Critique and the Jewish Tribal Review website. all the evidence needed is there. JPSlovjanski:
first whatever the ADL does it’s treated with kids’ gloves by the media. Give a medal to a jewish mobster? steal police files by greasing a cop? no problem, you’ll still be called a “human rights group” and given instant credibility. second you don’t need to be a member of AIPAC or the ADL to be a jewish activist. Do you think the Weinstein brothers are card carrying ADL members? Jewish Group Honors Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes http://www.forward.com/articles/3673/
JPSlovjanski:
the ashkenazis are a distinguishable group: http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/346genetics.html Those ethiopean jews are a tiny minority and they’re not well liked in Israel and those nordic looking ones are also a tiny minority. JPSlovjanski:
that’s the popular version of what happened. Ask anyone on the street and that’s what they’ll tell you. If there’s such a difference between what the man on the street thinks happened and what really happened then there’s a lot of educating to do. For some reason the holohistorians focus on the gassings, which is the weakest part of their narrative. If they would focus on the mass shootings instead - some of which actually happened - they would have more credibility. JPSlovjanski:
you never hear anything about them besides the gypsies and sometimes the homosexuals. In our collective conscience Holocaust = Six Million jews. Holocaust =/= twelve million people. Does the holocaust museum in Washington gives an equal or greater attention to the non-jews killed ? Did Spielberg mention the six million goyim killed in the holocaust when he gave his speech at the Oscars show ? JPSlovjanski:
I should return that comment to you. Why do you insist on believing in the official version of the holocaust even though no plans and no orders were ever found if that’s a valid reason to have doubts about the holodomor? JPSlovjanski:
holohistorians admit that there was no orders found originating from the HQ of the German government. If Himmler/the SS killed thousands of jews as they did in Latvia they didn’t do it because they had explicit orders from the government. JPSlovjanski:
do I really need to ‘understand’ communism to conclude that the USSR was a monstruous experiment that should never have happened? If I “understood” was communism was all about I would see the USSR in a positive light is that it? JPSlovjanski:
I focused on Israel because I read an article in a jewish paper whose sub-title was something about Israel having one of the worst record concerning sex slavery (especially because they didn’t have a law against it until a few years ago) but I don’t have a chart with numbers. I didn’t say all of the ended up in Israel but that a lot of them did. Wasn’t your original point that under soviet rule ukrainian women weren’t lured in foreign countries and trapped in prostitution? I think I could say the same about any slavic country under german occupation. Mussolini broke the back of the sicilian mafia during his reign - is that a argument in favor of fascism? JPSlovjanski:
a source for your assertion that jews were overrepresented in WW1 ? never heard of that one. jews were heavily involved in the communist movement. ask for example the hungarians if jews had nothing to do with communism http://jewishtribalreview.org/commun.htm what the nazis did was a systematic containment. All european countries throughout history have either contained the jews or expulsed them. And you just don’t get kicked of all the bars in a town for no reason. If everybody you meet calls you an asshole, chances are you really are an asshole. And the original nazi plan for the “final solution” was to ship them all to Madagascar or somewhere else outside of Europe. If they had succeeded Israel today wouldn’t be a threat to anyone. JPSlovjanski:
funny you mention that, you must know that the inscription at Auschwitz was changed too, 4 mil to 1 mil I’m not holding tight to the holodomor as THE proof that communism was an abomination, there are plenty of other facts for any rational man to conclude that. Unlike you I’m ready to admit that I might be wrong. Maybe six million ukrainians didn’t die or that it wasn’t deliberate. Maybe the deniers are right. I would have to take the time to study this event in detail - but I just don’t have that time. JPSlovjanski:
because they searched for all the names using everything they could find and at the end the result was 3 million - and there’s even people listed who are alive. Isn’t 50 years enough? JPSlovjanski:
that the Six Million jews starving story wasn’t true in 1919 but that didn’t stop them from recycling it 20 years later with the help of death camp pictures and a political tribunal at the end of the war. it still wasn’t true JPSlovjanski:
but they didn’t die even though as far as I know there was no large scale operation to save those starving jews. The Six Million starving jews story was used by jews to generate sympathy for jews among the american population. It was used much more effectively 20 years later because they had an horrific imagery to attach to it JPSlovjanski:
yet somebody did claimed 4 million were killed in Auschwitz mainly in those gas chambers. That number was revised down to 1 million as you know. and if nazi behavior towards jews explained their hostility to nazism (obviously) than the same process also explains why jews saw communism in a positive light since russian authorities were antisemitic and why so many of them joined the Cheka/NKVD to gain power over the russians who were historically hostile to them, as Shapiro said. 104
Posted by Slavyanski on October 10, 2007, 06:36 AM | # “the readers can check UKAR.org at Archive.org and judge for themselves how nutty and irrational Lubomyr Prytulak is compared to you http://web.archive.org/web/20051123102140/ukar.org/index.html” How about they check the work of Mark Tauger, with degrees in Soviet/agricultural history, who actually did archival research on the famine.
That’s not the point. Why should the presense of Jews be more important than the presense of say- Latvians, who were the most overrepresented?
So now you are reading people’s minds? Did you forget that many people in the secret police turned out to be traitors who had to be purged in the 30s? Most importantly, you forget that the majority of Jews supported the opposition to the Bolsheviks.
Not quite. Anti-Semites are known for conspiratorial, irrational thinking. “MacDonald says he started out his research admiring jews and finished it convinced that jews were bad. And the JTR website is filled with quotes and references from jewish authors.” Yeah I guess if I relied on some anti-semitic forgeries like Wolf of the Kremlin, I might f#$k up sometimes too. “Like I said, Neil Gabler can write a book about jews running Hollywood but a non-jew couldn’t write such a book and moreover wouldn’t be free to comment about the consequences of that jewish influence in the media / entertainment industry especially if he thinks it’s not a good thing. Same facts, different judgements and conclusions. One is OK, the other is bad. What’s the difference? jewish approval. only that” Fine, Jews “run” Hollywood. But Hollywood is a business. What do you think is more important to them? Making billions of dollars or being “Jewish” and destroying your white race. They put out what they think people want.
That’s not all, look at the Schatz debate; he cut passages in Schatz’s book about Jews in Poland to make it look as though Jews were favored. If I can get a copy of the book I will confirm if he used anything from Eustace Mullins as well. “I just told you, THe Culture of Critique and the Jewish Tribal Review website. all the evidence needed is there.” The problem is their illogical thinking- the idea that Jews are collectively responsible for their individual actions, the idea that their actions have something to do with their “Jewishness”, etc. Plus obvious bias.
I’m not going to defend the ADL; but they have good PR. “second you don’t need to be a member of AIPAC or the ADL to be a jewish activist. Do you think the Weinstein brothers are card carrying ADL members?” Does it matter? “Jewish Group Honors Fox News Chairman Roger Ailes http://www.forward.com/articles/3673/” Lots of white people love Fox news; why aren’t they held responsible? Why isn’t Roger Ailes for that matter? “But a host of luminaries from the left as well as the right turned out to applaud, including Miramax Films founders Harvey and Bob Weinstein, who bought a full-page ad in the dinner journal, and former president Bill Clinton, who prepared a video greeting that saluted “red-state Roger” for his concern for “security for the State of Israel and peace in the Middle East.” So this proves? What?
http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/346genetics.html” Distinguished from whom exactly? Because they share the blood of other local groups in that area? “Those ethiopean jews are a tiny minority and they’re not well liked in Israel and those nordic looking ones are also a tiny minority.” So what; the point is that there is racism in Israel, and in fact there is also discrimination against new immigrants from Russia and Eastern Europe, despite the fact that they are Jewish. A Jew from Germany is not a Jew from Russia, ditto for England or America.
“that’s the popular version of what happened. Ask anyone on the street and that’s what they’ll tell you.” It doesn’t matter, it’s wrong. Ask a lot of people on the street to tell you the name of an American revolutionary war general and they probably won’t answer anything.
Yeah there is a LOT of educating to do- about EVERYTHING. But then again people like you always bitch about Holocaust education. Maybe you should change that; demand MORE Holocaust education. ” For some reason the holohistorians focus on the gassings, which is the weakest part of their narrative. If they would focus on the mass shootings instead - some of which actually happened - they would have more credibility.” How is gassing the weakest part? There is the intact gas chamber at Majdanek, with Prussian blue staining. The ruins of the Birkenau Kremas have traces of cyanide. The basement where gas was tested on the Russian POWs shows cyanide residue. And you admit the shootings then?
Really? Why don’t you go to the US Holocaust museum and see about that? Why don’t you go to Babi Yar and read the memorial there?
Why don’t you CHECK? ” Did Spielberg mention the six million goyim killed in the holocaust when he gave his speech at the Oscars show ?” When exactly?
Orders were found, for the Einsatzgruppen. Plus there were the bichoff memos, which used terms like “vergasungkeller” and so on- but you wouldn’t know anything about that would you?
What does that matter really? Why would you admit to mass killing of Jews and pretend that there was no order? You never even looked up the Max Tauber verdict did you? Have you ever heard of the Posen speech by Himmler?
Well see the problem is that your premise there(that it was monsterous) is based on false claims.
“I focused on Israel because I read an article in a jewish paper whose sub-title was something about Israel having one of the worst record concerning sex slavery (especially because they didn’t have a law against it until a few years ago) but I don’t have a chart with numbers. I didn’t say all of the ended up in Israel but that a lot of them did. “ No, you focus on Israel because you are an irrational anti-Semite that needs to explain the world in a comic-book fantasy with villains and heroes, and you can’t believe “your people” would engage in such behaviour. Yes, Israel had a bad record for sex trafficking- but thanks to the ongoing efforts of organizations there, the problem is not only exposed but they have dealt a serious blow to the sex trafficking industry(brothels were closed down, forcing the pimps underground). And they are planning to do even more: Look up the Task Force on Human Trafficking for example. What has your ‘White Nationalist’ movement done to help the problem?
They brought their nations to ruin, and then women were forced by poverty to prostitute themselves. Hitler also imported hundreds of thousands of Slavs as slave laborers. . “a source for your assertion that jews were overrepresented in WW1 ? never heard of that one.” Of course you never heard that- because you don’t check. “jews were heavily involved in the communist movement. ask for example the hungarians if jews had nothing to do with communism” Again, you say “heavily involved” yet every time one looks at real numbers, they have always been a small minority. “http://jewishtribalreview.org/commun.htm” Jewish tribal review is not a reliable source. But if you look into the history of many of these nations, you’ll see why Jews supported the Communists. “what the nazis did was a systematic containment. All european countries throughout history have either contained the jews or expulsed them. And you just don’t get kicked of all the bars in a town for no reason. If everybody you meet calls you an asshole, chances are you really are an asshole. And the original nazi plan for the “final solution” was to ship them all to Madagascar or somewhere else outside of Europe. If they had succeeded Israel today wouldn’t be a threat to anyone.” Who cares about the “original plan”? What happened happened, get over it.
Proof of your poor research skills. Remember when you were saying that they never mention the NON-JEWS that died in the Holocaust? The 4 million sign referred to 4 million “PEOPLE” , not Jews. The sign was based on a miscalculation by the Poles, who meant it to be a monument to the victims of Fascism, and was never accepted in the West. When the Polish regime changed, the sign was changed to reflect the accurate number. “I’m not holding tight to the holodomor as THE proof that communism was an abomination, there are plenty of other facts for any rational man to conclude that. Unlike you I’m ready to admit that I might be wrong. Maybe six million ukrainians didn’t die or that it wasn’t deliberate. Maybe the deniers are right. I would have to take the time to study this event in detail - but I just don’t have that time.” Yeah, but you have plenty of time for Jewish Tribal Review it seems.
Who told you that? I guess you really don’t have enough time. If they found them, do you have all the time to verify those names?
Nobody said 6 million Jews starved. One man said 6 million Jews were in danger of dying. This was unlikely but physically possible. Look at the idiocy of what you are alleging here: 1. The first attempt at a hoax is one guy saying something in a newspaper. 2. Attempt number two yields thousands of eyewitnesses telling consistent stories(Germans too), cyanide residue, thousands of documents, demographic records, etc. Those guys learn quick don’t they?
First of all, it wasn’t used by “The Jews”, it was a speech by one guy. He never said they died. You didn’t even read the speech. “yet somebody did claimed 4 million were killed in Auschwitz mainly in those gas chambers. That number was revised down to 1 million as you know.” Already explained- even the 4 million sign never said those “PEOPLE” died in gas chambers. “and if nazi behavior towards jews explained their hostility to nazism (obviously)” Sorry but the Nazis were hostile to Jews first. “than the same process also explains why jews saw communism in a positive light since russian authorities were antisemitic and why so many of them joined the Cheka/NKVD to gain power over the russians who were historically hostile to them, as Shapiro said. “ Yes… you’re starting to get it. 105
Posted by VLC on October 12, 2007, 12:19 PM | # Slovjanski:
106
Posted by VLC on October 12, 2007, 12:21 PM | # Slovjanski:
One man said 6 million Jews were in danger of dying.”
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/tfh/3.html ^ this was the link I posted Next entry: Moscow Conference: Kai Murros’ speech Previous entry: Where’s the Southern POVERTY Law Center When the POOR Really Do Need Them? |
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Posted by calvin on August 29, 2007, 06:43 AM | #
“The Bolsheviks raised the literacy level to unprecedented levels, introduced free health care and schooling and did everything to rid the country of the alien Asian-style caste system”
The Bolsheviks did everything that was necessary to mold the Russian population into homo-industrialis in order to turn Russia into a gigantic factory. Russia under communism was a bit like Auschwitz under Nazism; a huge murderous labour plantation powered by slaves. Tsarist Russia was traditionalist, agrarian and slightly bucolic; go figure out which Russia was preferable to the American bankers.